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Shelagh Fogarty is joined by Conservative MP Gareth Davies to ask: Is Reform replacing the Tories? It comes as Nigel Farage declares Reform UK a ‘national party’ after huge local election gains. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #shelaghfogarty #garethdavies #LBC #debate #ukpolitics #uknews LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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I'm joined by Gareth Davis, Shadow Minister for Business and Trade and Conservative MP for Grantham and Bourne
0:06
Good afternoon to you. Thanks for joining me. Good afternoon. So make the case that Conservatives are not down and out, if you would
0:16
Well, we're not. And we take great comfort from the results last night on Westminster, where we've taken back control
0:24
Wandsworth. Bexley is a really interesting one because you may remember that this was Nigel Farage
0:31
and Reform's number one target. Nigel Farage said it was a shoo-in that they were going to win
0:36
Bexley and they haven't. And I think, you know, as the results come in, clearly we have seen some
0:44
losses and it's absolutely right that you point that out. But it's also true that we've surprised
0:49
on the upside. By the way, there were two MRP polls that did not predict the victories that
0:55
we've had. And so it gives, I think, conservatives like me a lot of hope, a lot of confidence that
1:01
the hard graph that we're doing day in, day out to show up and hold the government to account
1:07
force these U-turns, whether it's on winter fuel payments or the family farm tax or Chagos
1:13
this is important work, while also setting out, you know, starting to set out a policy agenda
1:19
such as scrapping stamp duty, that people can have confidence to vote with us again
1:26
And, you know, we'll see over the next few years how things progress, but, you know, the last 24 hours gives me a lot of hope
1:33
It's interesting. I mean, I know that politicians often talk tough and positive when things are
1:39
but you sincerely believe that, don't you? Yes. Well, first of all, I think if you're in politics, you've got to be positive
1:46
If you just moan all the time, I'm not sure what people are voting for. You can be a realist about things that have happened as well
1:50
You can, absolutely. And I am a realist, I should point out. You know, I've already mentioned that we have lost seats
1:56
Very good councillors who didn't deserve to lose. But, you know, we are less than two years away from a pretty terrible result at the last general election
2:06
So inevitably it's going to take time to rebuild that trust. But we do have a leader now I think who you know if you believe you know in looking at polling which I do as a guide And she the most popular leader now in the country We trusted on the economy and she represents a change in direction for us
2:26
that really has united the party to a level I've not seen before
2:32
That has to translate into party favour as well, doesn't it? Not just personal ratings
2:37
although you're right to point out that her ratings have been improving. Let's look at some of the numbers
2:41
I mean, Tory losses so far, because I know the results are still coming in
2:45
Tory losses of 244, reform gains of 553. So really stealing a march on you there
2:52
Reform of taking overall control of Essex County Council after reaching a 40-seat threshold
2:58
Sorry to throw all this at you. Suffolk County Council will be run now by reform
3:02
after the party won overall control, taking a good number of seats
3:07
almost 40 seats to the Conservatives' eight, I think. So these are Tory heartlands
3:13
So, with Kenny Baden-Ock's popularity in mind, what's the plan? Well, the plan is to, first of all, act like what we are
3:24
which is the official opposition holding the government to account. We're the only ones doing that
3:28
It's not nothing to stress that. Liberal Democrats don't stand up to Labour
3:34
and reform just do not turn up. I mean, just look for yourself at Nigel Farage's voting record
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He doesn't show up to Parliament. So whether it's on Chagos, the winter fuel payment or family farm taxes, I was saying
3:45
the issues that matter to the British public, we are holding this government to account
3:49
and putting forward, as I say, other proposals for the future. We've got to keep that going, but we've got to be realistic that we still are less than two years
3:58
down the road from a pretty bad result. We also, by the way, have now, I think, entered multi-party politics, which we've not seen before
4:08
and we have to realise that, you know, people are expressing their views via a number of different parties now
4:16
and it's up to us as Conservatives to show that we're serious in serious times
4:20
We have a leader who stands for something that can be the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
4:25
to hold the nuclear codes as well as rebuild our economy. And I think, you know, as time goes by, we still have two or three years to the next general election
4:33
We can prove that to the British public. Given that not all but some of the startling successes that reform have had overnight and so far have been in strong Brexit areas where the vote was well over 50 sometimes into the late 60
4:50
something like 41% turnout of the vote in these elections, in those kinds of areas
4:57
Do you regret Brexit as a Conservative? No. Because you're still being eaten alive by the crocodile, aren't you
5:03
This time it's Nigel Farage. I believe in democracy and I think referendums are a way, whether you agree or disagree with the outcome of a referendum, it gives the British public an opportunity to express an opinion of where they want the country to go
5:17
And the result was not in dispute and it was our job to execute on that
5:23
And I was and I entered Parliament in 2019 because we got Brexit done
5:27
We said we would do it and we did it. Nigel Farage has played a role, obviously, in this country's politics for many, many years
5:37
I mean, I've lost count of how many parties he's set up and led now. Clearly, he's had a role to play, but it was we in government who delivered that referendum and delivered Brexit
5:49
I take your point about how many parties he's set up and led, but this one is hitting the sweet spot, isn't it
5:54
And yours isn't. I mean, to hear Andrew Marr talk about Nigel Farage realistically on the basis of these figures that we're looking at being feasibly the next prime minister, how do the Tories get back from that
6:08
Because they're just the Tory party in power, aren't they, if that happens
6:16
No, they're very different to us. How are they very different? Well, I think if you just look at their economic agenda, first of all, they are in favour of a bigger state
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They've been very clear that they want to nationalise industries. They've been very clear that they're not against increasing the welfare budget
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By the way, we're going to have £400 billion of welfare spending at the end of this parliament
6:39
They have no plan or desire to get that down. We do. And if you look at what they're doing at a council level, they increase taxes despite saying that they would cut them
6:49
So I'm not entirely sure that they are trustworthy. So on a number of areas On defence we live in one of the most dangerous times that I have ever known And they don have anybody to act as a spokesperson on defence matters I haven heard Nigel Farage talk about anything to do with defence It not serious
7:08
Kemi Bainock is delivering that serious leadership. But what are you as a party going to have to do to get to places like Sunderland, like Tyneside
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like St Helens, like Wigan? And this is a Labour challenge as well, but there's a Tory challenge
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in some of those places and really convince people that lessons have been learned from what you did the last time around
7:32
that a period of penance in a way or penitence has to be shown, doesn't it
7:38
I don't think, I mean, I'm a floating voter, I've said it a lot on air
7:41
and I did feel, I kind of still feel that the Conservative Party
7:46
needs to do a bit of penance somehow. I'm not quite sure what that looks like. I don't expect you to lie prostrate on the steps of Westminster or anything
7:53
but, you know, people are so disappointed and let down. That's a tough thing to come back from any time
8:00
but particularly when a new party of the right, a new glittering party of the right with new seats
8:05
new councils to control all over the place, is breathing down your neck. Well, first of all, you know, I've done your show many times and others
8:13
and I've said that we do need to reflect on that defeat. I think we have reflected on that defeat
8:19
and continue to do so. And that's why you're seeing a quite a significant change when it comes
8:25
to things like ECHR, when you look at the Climate Change Act and our clean energy plan, that is very
8:32
different to the things that we were talking about. So moving rightwards. I don't see that
8:37
as right or left. I see that as pragmatic. And, you know, it's more right and wrong, actually
8:42
I think, you know, not burdening families and businesses with, you know, more and more taxation
8:48
or regulation to meet climate change targets that we probably won't meet
8:54
is not a pragmatic way to proceed. And so Kemi has shown that leadership in marking a change
9:00
But it's going to take time. You know, look, as I say, you know, we're less than two years since the last election
9:06
We've got probably another two or three years until the next election. This is midterm at best
9:12
And we have time to show the country that we can be trusted. I'll sleep it there
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Thank you for joining me today. Gareth Davies, Shadow Minister for Business and Trade and Conservative MP for Grantham and Bourne
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