Does Zack Polanski worry you? | James O’Brien - The Whole Show

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Three minutes after ten is the time
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Right, don't shoot the messenger. I'm not carrying on until you promise. Do you promise you won't shoot the messenger
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Alright? This isn't an opinion, this is counting. Right, your food is getting more expensive
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your fuel is getting more expensive, and your holiday might be cancelled. Happy
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And that is all as a consequence of the ongoing situation in, well, I mean specifically, in the Strait of Hormuz
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It's one of those words, isn't it, that seems to get pronounced differently depending on who's using it
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And I can be very boring on the subject. Well, I can be very boring on any subject
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but I can be particularly boring on the question of whether or not you should pronounce sort of names, proper nouns
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in the way that the natives of that region pronounce proper nouns
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or in the way that your own phonetics, your own language would phonetically deliver
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The classic example of this, of course, being Don Quixote or Don Quixote, as Philistines in this country prefer to call him
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So, anyway, the Strait of Hormuz, God, that was an early tangent, wasn't it? That was an early digression
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But luckily, you've come to expect it by now. The Strait of Hormuz is the reason why
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your food is getting more expensive, your fuel is getting more expensive
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and your holiday may quite conceivably be cancelled. I promise you I'm not exaggerating
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13,000 flights have already been cancelled for this month because of jet fuel shortages and high prices caused by the Iran war
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This is from the aviation ytics company Sirium. And that, as things stand, can only get worse
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The build-up of ships waiting in the bottleneck currently crewed by about 22,000 crew members
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And these are big old container ships which don't have many crew members. I've watched strange Channel 5-style television programs about this stuff
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Do you know you can book cabins on them? And they're quite expensive. I thought they'd be almost free
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But they're quite expensive. You can tour the way. Anyway, again, stop with the digressions
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I mean, they don't have... That's why they're so susceptible to piracy
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Again, something I missed. Donald Trump boasting last week about being a pirate. Can we see if we've got a clip of that
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I mean, literally saying out loud, hey, this is what we're doing. It's like we're pirates
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You think I'm making it up. Something else that you'll think I'm making up coming up in a moment, but I've got the clip of it, so I can prove that I'm not
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Although, to be honest, it's so utterly outlandish that you could be forgiven for thinking that I deployed some sort of deep fake
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in order to play you the latest pearls of wisdom from Pete Hegseth
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So the ships are bottlenecking. The claim that it's open is contradicted by the claim that it's closed
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The claim that it is a ceasefire is contradicted by the claim that they're now firing at each other again
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The claim that the war is over, therefore he doesn't need permission from Congress to do the war that he's already done
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is under question by the fact that they are discussing the fact that the Iran agreement is imminent
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There may be some breaking news on this in the next few minutes. They are expecting a, ah, guess what, couple of days
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They're expecting a response that is currently being reported from Iran in the next 48 hours
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And here's the thing, right? If there is a deal to be done, it is almost impossible to imagine that it would be in any measurable way superior to the deal that was done in 2015
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that he immolated, torched, tore up during his first administration. So your food, your fuel and your holiday are getting more expensive
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When is a straight not a straight? When is a straight not open
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When it's ajar. So the straight of Hormuz is ajar, I think, perhaps
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is the closest you're going to get to an accurate description of it
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I need to credit someone for that. They sent me that joke just before I came on air
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but I've lost the message that it was contained within. That's what happens when I start crediting people
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with writing my script. Script? I start crediting... Keith, well done, thank you
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The straight is ajar. I can see Ashley Northampton has already rung in
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and he will be appearing on the programme probably when I get to the end of this in terminal introduction
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because he's the only person I've spoken to so far who actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to the straight-off Hormuz
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I normally, if you ring in before I've actually asked a question, you get very politely told by Rebecca to ring back later
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when James has actually asked the question. Admittedly, there are some shows where you can get on
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even if there isn't a question asked, you've got no idea what the presenter is talking about, but not this one
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At least not today. So, your food, your fuel and your holiday
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are under threat. Two are already going up in cost and one could be cancelled altogether
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13,000 flights already scrapped. 22,000 crew members or thereabouts waiting to pass through the Strait of Hormuz
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which gives you some indication, perhaps, of how big that backlog is
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I have got the number of ships somewhere in front of me, but I have temporarily mislaid it
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Let's see if the... Shall we see if the hive mind is working today? how many ships are currently waiting to pass through the Strait of Hormuz
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How many ships have been held up since it closed? And of course Donald Trump claimed yesterday, or was it the day before
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And I'm not even joking, I can't remember. I wasn't on air the day before, was I? There was a bank holiday
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Oh lord, I think I've got the bins wrong. That's an even stranger digression than the previous two
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I think it was the day before yesterday when I wasn't at work
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that he said, was it Operation Freedom was going to reopen the Strait of Hormuz
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And then it was either yesterday or today that he said that they are curtailing Operation Freedom
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So even by Donald Trump's standards, that is a very short operation
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And, of course, it completely failed. So, your food is going up, your fuel is going up
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your holiday could be cancelled, the Strait is open except when it's closed
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and it's closed except when it's open. Iran still control it, And the United States can't really claim victory in this scenario unless they reverse that status quo
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and exercise military control over the Strait of Hormuz, which is the very definition of the sort of exercise that Donald Trump swore blind he would never undertake
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in the event of the American people deciding to make him president for the second time
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Are you still with me at the back? Operation Freedom was launched on Monday
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with the express purpose of helping ships that were not part of the current conflict
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but were currently stuck in the bottleneck to safely navigate the Strait of Hormuz
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no ships did in that category two ships, it was claimed, did manage to navigate the Strait of Hormuz
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but they were flying the American flag which is, under any reading of this situation
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not a country which is not involved in the current conflict. So, your food is going up in value, your fuel is going up in value
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your holiday could be cancelled. 22,000 crew members have been stuck there for about a month
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Goodness knows, and you haven't told me yet, but hurry up, how many ships are caught up in the bottleneck
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Operation Freedom was designed to allow vessels to pass through. That was announced on Monday It was unannounced yesterday And the peace deal and the ceasefire that have already been celebrated appear to be at breaking point or about to be replaced How many peace deals can you sign before people
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recognise that the last peace deal probably wasn't worth the paper that it was printed on
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Unless, of course, you go back to 2015 when Barack Obama's administration presided over
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and negotiated a peace deal that was working rather well, thank you very much, until Donald
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Trump tore it up. So what does victory look like? 0345 6060973 could be a question. Let's wait and
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see. If you want to answer that, jump in early. Ash has. What on earth does victory look like for
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Trump? 0345 6060973. What does victory look like for Iran? Because I'll tell you something for
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nothing, and you might want to write this down, and in fact you might want to put a bet on a polymarket, they'll both claim that they've won. They already have, and they will do again. They
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will both claim that they've won. 03456060973. 11 minutes after 10 is the time
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So, I think it's between 1,000 and 2,000 ships, about 1,500 ships
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The hive mind has galloped to my rescue. About 1,500 ships currently caught up in the bottleneck that Donald Trump said on Monday
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he was going to open and conceded on Tuesday he had not managed to
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Therefore, he was suspending the operation to open them. Oh, and the ceasefire is under threat
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despite the fact that Iran is reported to have launched missiles at American vessels and at the UAE
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and America is claiming to have sunk seven boats that were, seven smaller boats that were Iranian
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I don't know, when is a ceasefire not a ceasefire? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say when they haven't ceased firing
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We must talk about Lebanon later. When is a ceasefire not a ceasefire
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When Donald Trump and the Iranian regime have announced. it. I don't know. There is a technicality
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here that I am not qualified to contemplate. You can have a ceasefire in place
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even when they carry on taking pot shots at each other. So, your food is going up in value
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your fuel is going up in value, your holiday could be cancelled, and no one's got any idea
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how or when it's going to end. And that's my question for you. At 13 minutes
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after 10 on this rather splendid Wednesday morning, how, when and why will it end
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0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. Except it's not. It's just the first question that I've got for you
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Because the second question involves me introducing you to a concept of which you may not have previously been aware
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One of the most talented people currently operating in this country is a young man you may have come across called Munya Chihuahua
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And he has a documentary coming up imminently that addresses the issue that I'm about to talk to you about
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But it has popped up independently of that documentary in conversations I've had with at least two other people
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One, Elliot, who is producing this programme today, normally to be found, with Lewis Goodall on a Sunday morning
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And two, Johnny Vaughan, who took me to one side in the corridors here at Global Towers about six months ago
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And he said to me, in his characteristically enthusiastic fashion, it's all about the wrestling
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And I said, pardon, Johnny? And he said, James, James, it's all about the wrestling
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I said, what is all about the wrestling? And he said, Donald Trump. You cannot understand Donald Trump if you do not understand the wrestling
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And I said, I'm going to need a little bit more than that. So he sent me some articles
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And it's true. You cannot understand Donald Trump unless you understand the wrestling
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And then there's a word that begins with K that I've already forgotten that is absolutely crucial to understanding this concept
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I haven't really forgotten it. It's a little bit of theatre, you see, because I'm doing a little bit of kayfabe
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I'm doing it myself. I'm pretending to get an emotional reaction. Kayfabe is the conspiracy in a way
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It's the conspiracy of complicity. It is the word that is used to describe the fact
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that everybody involved in that mode of wrestling pretends that it's real
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So what would my wrestling name be, Keith? Do we think the rhetorician
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The rhetorician appears on screen. I'm going to kill that Hulk guy
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I'm going to tear him limb from limb. And everybody knows and doesn't know that it's not real
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Everybody is hypnotised, if you like, by the process. And there is a rather powerful argument
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that this is exactly what Donald Trump is doing. So you're sitting there now, and you're thinking to yourself
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no, come on, you're not taking things seriously. There's no way that Donald Trump's regime
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is treating a war in the Middle East as if it were an exercise in pay-per-view wrestling
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Here's his Secretary of Defence, Pete Hegseth. are there still concerns about mines in the strait and can you kind of clarify these reports of
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kamikaze dolphins that we've heard about i haven't heard the kamikaze dolphin thing it's like sharks
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with laser beams right uh and i can't confirm or deny whether we have kamikaze dolphins
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but i can confirm they don't uh ultimately uh the any follow-on effort if there are mines
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identified would be something that some of our units could undertake or the world could undertake
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But right now we know we have a lane of safe passage that commercial shipping can flow through
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You know, I said to you earlier, I was going to pay you a clip that was true and you wouldn't
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believe that it was true. The first voice you heard in that clip was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
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General Dan Cain. The second voice you heard was Donald Trump, Secretary of State for Defence
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Despite the fact they've tried to rename that role, they are not technically or constitutionally
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allowed to and the phrase you heard him say was well i'm going to play it to you again because if
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you really are picking holes in the suggestion that this is all just a sort of pantomime
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being played out with american and iranian lives for the amusement of who i don't even know
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then you're going to have to come to me with a very very rational and substantive account of why
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the world is being asked to focus on kamikaze dolphins are there still concerns about mines in
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the straight end. Can you kind of clarify these reports of kamikaze dolphins that we've heard
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about? I haven't heard the kamikaze dolphin thing. It's like sharks with laser beams, right
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And I can't confirm or deny whether we have kamikaze dolphins, but I can confirm they don't
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Ultimately, any follow-on effort, if there are mines identified, would be something that
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some of our units could undertake or the world could undertake. But right now
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we know we have a lane of safe passage that commercial shipping can flow through
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Except they don't, actually, at the moment, have a lane of safe passage that commercial shipping can flow through
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And I don't know what to do as a journalist. Because, I mean, I'm not there
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The Iranians are clearly taking pot shots at ships in the region
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The odd ship might get through, but as far as I'm aware, hasn't yet. The Americans are claiming that they've done it, that they've opened it
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The evidence is that they haven't. Fake news is fine, isn't it, when you're claiming that you haven't started a riot or incited an insurrection
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You're claiming that the evidence of your own eyes and ears is not real. But I never thought it would play out on a stage quite this big or significant
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There we are. It's kayfabe. The portrayal of staged elements within professional wrestling as legitimate or real
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Characters, rivalries and storylines. So the rivalry between Iran and the United States of America is real
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everything else is kayfabe everything else is pantomime everything else is almost almost and that the crucial word this morning almost impossible to yse
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But we're going to try anyway. So, you've already had question number one, which is, how does it end
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Question number two is almost the opposite of that. And it is, how did it begin
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make sense of what has happened. How have we ended up here
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And where does it all go next? OK? Hit the numbers now
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You will get through. It's not like I'm asking whether or not you've ever got a parking ticket
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that was unfair. The switchboard will have room for you, at least for the next ten minutes or so
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0345 6060 973. How did we get to this ridiculous point? And where are we all going next
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because if you are understandably laboring under the illusion that it doesn't really matter
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then I need to remind you that your food has already gone up in value
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in cost. It hasn't gone up in value. It's gone up in cost
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Your fuel has already gone up in cost and it's now perfectly plausible that your summer holiday is about to be cancelled
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0345 6060 973. James O'Brien on LBC. Are we sure it's not Kayfabe or Kayfarby
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It's Kayfabe. You put your life on that, would you? Or Keith's. Okay
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What is the next chapter in this extraordinary saga and how the heck did we get to where we are now
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Let's start with Ash in Northampton, who is probably tiring of the superlatives that I lavish upon him
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whenever we have the privilege of picking his brains. But if you are not listening to the programme on the quasi-religious basis that, frankly, you should
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then you should know that he was a regular contributor to Mysterio, where his maritime knowledge earned him countless rounds of applause and possibly even a couple of Ray Liotas
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But obviously, it is now being applied in the almost as serious context of the war in the Middle East
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So, Ash, over to you, really. Come at it from whatever angle you want. Shall we start with Operation Freedom
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Good morning, James. Right, so Operation Freedom. It was positive as a humanitarian mission
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to get the 22,000 seafarers moving. I think it's about 1,220 vessels currently locked in Hormuz
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Roughly 18 to 23 seafarers on each. So roughly 22,500 seafarers. Before we go on, because I may keep you on for the whole hour
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if you're not busy, I hope your phone's charged up. what will life be like for them at the moment
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I should have talked to you about this earlier. I intended to, but I forgot. Their own personal health
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Yeah. When you're an anchor on a ship like one of these merchant vessels
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you have to remain in a constant state of readiness. You can't just switch everything off and go to sleep
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There will be continuous watches going the whole way through. You will be having orders pinging backwards and forwards
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every time they sort of suggest that the straits might be ready to be opened or there's a new initiative
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Hope will start to build that you can go. You start doing all the testing, and then everything starts to break down
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So you're going through this continuous cycle. You've then got the side notes that you will have fuel bunkers
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that are starting to get low, so you need to start thinking about whether or not you can make the transit
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because obviously your engines have to remain on for there to be power
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there's, well, generators probably but, you know, there will be things running
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to keep everything going food stocks start to get low you haven't had a resupply in quite a while
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everything starts to become the same and you're just locked into this
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200 metre by 30 metre metal box it's not pleasant is the upshot
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I mean, this is possibly a stupid question but in for a penny
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how feasible is it that some of these 1,220 vessels won't be able to get through the Straithorm
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is because of the impact of being stuck where they've been stuck for the last month? Highly possible
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It would depend on their stage of readiness before they went into it. It will depend upon the state of operation
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I mean, another thing to consider is, you know, the ongoing maintenance
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If they were supposed to be stopping for a maintenance and refit schedule, they could well be out of class by now
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That's the phrase that means knackered Yeah, basically and I'm sure
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that's me being a little bit dramatic the classification society will be aware of this, they will extend the certification
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and all that kind of stuff and keep everything moving but extending the certification
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doesn't mean that the whole inspection that would have found the rust
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that will eventually lead to the ship sinking isn't still there Okay, well this was a digression
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but obviously an important one and a valuable one. So let's go back to Operation Freedom
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and just what you, as an expert watcher of these events and of Matters Maritime, what you made of it all
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Okay. So they announced that as a humanitarian. Looking back on it as it's finished, it wasn't
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It was a test. Oh, go on. Send two destroyers through and try to bring a couple of your tankers out
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under the humanitarian guise. That gives you an awful lot of data as to the current state of Iran
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whether there is an actual area denial rather than just, you know
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a sea denial in certain areas. I'm going to clarify that for my listeners
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Area denial would mean you can't get through any of the water
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between two points of land, and sea denial would mean there's bits of it you can't get through
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and bits of it you can't. Yes. Carry on. So then what happened
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Well, when they brought the tankers out and when they put the two destroyers through
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they didn't use the sea lanes. They used a passage much, much closer to Amman
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Right. So forcing the corridor through wasn't really a thing. I'm not going to call out a rear admiral live on national radio
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but they clearly picked the point where it was most likely that there'd be fewer mines
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You then look at what happened. Drone attack, exocet missile attack, fast boat attack
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requiring the launch of multiple helicopters to take out those threats, the launching of multiple intercept missiles
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The asymmetric warfare that's gone on in that very short period tells us an awful lot about what's going on
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I told you five weeks ago now, that to be successful, they would need to win the air war
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and be able to successfully cover the straits effectively. That transit of those two destroyers that are designed for air intercept
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despite what Kenny Badenow thinks, did not prove that Iran's capability has been significantly reduced
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Wow. Okay. Now the two vessels that came out very successful but think about what else happened An Iranian tanker got hit a south korean tanker got hit and a french cma vessel i think it was a container vessel
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got hit as they were sort of like milling about trying to see if they could also
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get out and through right so that's why so yes it it's not a success but they've learned an awful
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lot in that in town. As an operation stand-alone, ignore the humanitarian
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stuff and where Donald Trump says for a minute. Sure. The military ysts
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will have looked at that and said, this is the state of play. The good news from that is that it has
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opened up a diplomatic off-ramp. Hence, they're now talking. It's opened up a diplomatic
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off-ramp because they realise that they can't force the issue militarily. They can't
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sort of blow a hole through the Strait of Hormuz, as it were, and lead all these ships to safety
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They've realised that they can't do that, so they have to go back to the table. Correct
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But it was a big news story, lots of people talking about it
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It got China involved, it got South Korea involved, everyone is now talking
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Pakistan upped its rhetoric for scaling back and talking. It now looks like you're coming to the table
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willing to discuss. Okay. So, to clarify, it was never on the table that they would be leading boats
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or ships not allied to any powers involved in the conflict through the Strait of Hormuz
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That was never the intention, it was never the ambition, but that was what was announced. They dressed it up as a humanitarian effort
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I think Pete Hegseth claimed that it was the United States' gift to the world
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and he said, it's madash, isn't it? I'm thinking in a 24-hour time frame
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He claimed that they'd built a big red, white and blue dome over the entire Strait of Hormuz and every ship would now be safe
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And he claimed that on live television. And if that were true, they wouldn't need to be negotiating anything with the Iranians
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So what they were hoping would happen was that the ships would get through more or less unmolested
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or at least just buzzed a bit. And therefore, they'd be able to conclude
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that Iranian resources had been sufficiently depleted to ensure that they couldn't exercise control over the Strait of Hormuz
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But the discovery they made was that Iran still can. Therefore, we all better go back to the negotiating table
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yeah that's pretty much it how does it end then so how does it end well the other
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upshot from this and this is why they've gone back to the table I think
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think of not just the asymmetric war now but the asymmetric PR war
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what do Iran stand to lose at the moment the three pillars of Iran
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the government, the clerics and the IRGC all of them are winning the PR war in their own way right now every single time a ship is turned
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back or there is coverage on the news that says that the strait is closed and around it it's all
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PR for them their their state of winning is so low compared to what to what the rest of the world is
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They are used to operating under heavy sanctions, under every single news outlet in the world pretty much apart from their own state media saying that they're an evil organisation, evil operation
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They don't care about that. But they have the ability to change the entire nature of global maritime trade in a way that hasn't changed since globalisation, which we talked about last time, which is securing of sea routes using insurance rather than navies
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they're going to change it again if this goes through. What does the US Navy, some of the Royal Navy
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what does the US Navy stand to gain and what does the US stand to gain
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At the moment, as I said to Eleanor a minute ago, they're standing in a trench looking up
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high up into the distance of where the JCPOA in 2015 used to put them
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Yeah. That's the agreement negotiated by Obama's administration. Yes. To even get halfway back to the JCPOA
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to a state where we were maybe six months ago, where there's tensions, Iran's still in lockdown
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under sanction, but not really, but OK, and the strait is open
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that is the only win at the moment America can take away from this
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I mean, the one thing we can all say with certainty is that Donald Trump will present that as the mother of all victories
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as the most astonishing achievement that has ever been negotiated in the history of negotiations
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And anybody who points out that it's a heavily watered-down version of what Barack Obama achieved 11 years ago is a fake news liar
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Yes. That's what is going to happen next. And that's the Twitter war, essentially, that's going on right now
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And, I mean, like everything else that could be filed under Twitter war
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it is going to involve people. the only question is how many people are going to insist on believing what they want to believe
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instead of believing the evidence of their own eyes and ears yeah i've always been a proponent of orderless huxley rather than um george orwell fair enough
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but this is george orwell we we we have our conflicting dystopias ash but we we have a
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regard for the truth in common so i mean was there any circumstance in which beyond like
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demonstrating the massive depletion of Iranian resources, which A, would only have been temporary anyway
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and B, wouldn't have been 100% reliable, because, you know, not to be glib
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they might have been having a bad day, or they might have had tactical reasons
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to not demonstrate the full extent of their current powers. But for America to prevail in a truly Trumpian
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no, not Trumpian, because that involves claiming you've prevailed when you've lied, for America to prevail in a literal sense
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in an actual historical traditional sense, they would have to be permanently patrolling and controlling the Strait of Hormuz
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And that would be a military exercise the like of which has never been seen before
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Yeah, I mean, you're talking about stationing the 5th Fleet inside the Gulf, the 4th Fleet outside the Gulf
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Yes. And, yeah, continuously running the operations. But as I've said before, like, the Merchant Navy doesn't train for this anymore
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There was some talk about sort of the 1980s Q80 oil tanker runs
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Different world. And a lot of the world hasn't caught up with it, including the media
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which, of course, today, as you've been speaking, has to report that the White House believe it's getting close to an agreement with Iran
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This from the Axios News Agency, who've clearly had a call from someone in the White House
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There is a one-page memorandum of understanding to end the war and set a framework for more detailed nuclear negotiations
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which will be, exactly as Ash has described, at the very, very best
29:30
a heavily watered-down version of what was achieved in the JCPOA back in 2015
29:36
I'm late for the news. Have you got anything else to say? Yeah, just a little bit about that
29:40
No, you can come back after the news. Do you want to come back after the news? Yeah, if you like
29:44
Yeah, please. It's 10.34. Dominic Ellis has your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC
29:50
Start obsessing about kayfabe, having only discovered the existence of the word this morning
29:54
apologies to all of you who are getting in touch with me to say you've been screaming it at me for the best part of
30:00
Ten years. I didn't hear. It's not my fault. We should have screamed louder. But if you look at, just simply look at the faces
30:06
of Robert Kennedy and Pete Hegseth, just look at their faces and tell me that Donald Trump
30:12
hasn't assembled a wrestling team, a tag team, a squad of fake wrestlers
30:19
Back to Ash in Northampton, who I don't think has ever been accused of being a fake wrestler
30:24
What did you want to, this is such a hallowed status that we've afforded to you, Ash. I hope the pressure isn't proving too difficult to bear
30:30
But what did you want to add? So, yeah, just about that final thing
30:35
I had a quick look at the one-page pressing. It's just an extension of the 14-point plan that Iran put forward
30:44
It's actually very little has changed from this other than maybe some of the wording differences over the nuclear... Pledges
30:52
So we promised not to do this and not to do that, and we promised the same thing back in 2015
30:56
but we double promise now? Yeah, well, actually, it's sort of less than what they promised in 2015
31:03
Oh, really? I didn't realise that. Yeah, it's much less. So that's it, then
31:07
I mean, you've simultaneously made this phone-in brilliant and quite possibly killed it stone dead
31:12
because that, of course, is my problem. We can still move on, of course, to the question of how on earth
31:18
we ended up in this almighty mess in terms of politics and personalities
31:23
but I think if we were to put money on a poly market
31:27
we would say some, I mean we couldn't because the specifics would be impossible to pin down
31:33
with absolute precision but eventually Iran will agree to something that looks a lot like what they agreed to in 2015
31:41
but is measurably less effective from the point of view of the United States or Israel
31:48
or anybody concerned about Iranian influence in the Middle East and beyond
31:52
and they will claim a victory with some justification and they will continue to control the Strait of Hormuz
31:59
but it will be reopened and Donald Trump will claim glorious victory
32:03
and the complete humiliation of all the Iranians unless they buy him a plane
32:07
in which case they'll become his new best friends. Yeah, I mean it'll all depend on what their negotiation point is
32:14
Now I'm obviously not in the room with their PhD negotiators so but it will depend upon about four different things of what they want control over the straits
32:25
of hormuz is what they're talking about a lot i think that's the removal of sanctions is a definite
32:33
one because that gets their economy working the releasing of the billions of pounds in
32:38
assets that have been seized around the world and stuff that would seem to be fairly high on
32:43
their priority list. Wow. And then the final one is the nuclear material
32:48
and the ability to sort of continue their nuclear power and possibly then if you want to talk about, you know
32:58
what they do with the sustainable material afterwards, that's another conversation. But those are their four main points
33:04
and it would depend on which ones they're willing to move on
33:09
Again, with the caveat that this might be a stupid question, um given that iran emerges from or is is engaged in this current contretemps from such a powerful
33:21
and such an unexpectedly powerful position why didn't they previously use the strait of homies
33:27
as leverage over over the entire world what i mean do you understand what i mean what why i mean
33:32
given what we know about the regime and we know about the desperation for money and the impact of
33:37
sanctions, why had they previously allowed the Strait of Hormuz to be
33:41
used more or less with impunity by their enemies, as it were
33:46
Because nobody had attacked them until now. So it wouldn't have done an unprovoked
33:51
closure of the Strait of Hormuz, but a provoked one it could justify? I mean
33:57
contemplate? Justify is the wrong word. I know. So nobody up until now, this is
34:03
one of the reasons, you know how for the last 30 years, people have been
34:07
saying you can't attack Iran because of the nuclear stuff. Kind of a smokescreen
34:14
Everyone who knew about it and knew the area knew that geography was the problem
34:18
Yeah. And so you couldn't attack Iran because that's always in the back of your mind
34:25
for people who know, ysts who know the area and people who worked in the foreign office
34:30
and state departments knew that that was a possibility. That's a brilliant answer
34:35
Good God, you're good. So that was like a classic Mexican standoff
34:41
We could, of course, close the world down by closing the Strait of Hormuz
34:46
but we won't because you're not attacking us. So this is why Benjamin Netanyahu has spent 30 years
34:51
trying to persuade American presidents to attack Iran, and as Barack Obama revealed last week
34:55
they've all said no because they knew what would happen if they did. Yes. And there it is. It all makes sense
35:04
And there's no guarantee that it will go down the path that you've now described, because like me, you have little choice but to look at these events
35:11
through the lens of logic, history and tradition. And yet in the case of Donald Trump
35:16
we're dealing with someone who is illogical, ahistorical and entirely without rhyme or reason
35:23
So anything could actually happen next, but if there's a vaguely sensible scenario in place
35:30
it's going to look a lot like the one that you've just described. And they're saying 48 hours
35:34
Yeah, and you think the JCPLA took years. Indeed it did. Listen, I'm going to take you up to the 10.45
35:43
and then I think we've got Helen in Manchester on the line, who used to work in professional wrestling
35:47
so I like the idea that we're covering all the angles today. But while I've got you, I mean, the situation on this cruise ship
35:53
with what I'm going to have to describe unprofessionally as the rat virus, that falls under your purview as well a bit, doesn't it
36:00
Yeah, so quickly on that. There's a thing in... Hang on a minute. Keith, do we have a caller of the year category yet
36:08
Can we institute it immediately, please? Carry on, Ash. Under international law, there's something called free practice
36:16
which is you would apply flag Quebec saying that my vessel is healthy
36:20
I can come into your port. On merchant vessels, we have outbreaks all the time
36:25
not necessarily like this, but things like Legionnaires is a big one on merchant vessels because fresh water systems, temperatures
36:32
bugs, things like that go round. Sure. Every so often you end up sat at anchor
36:38
outside a port, unable to fly flack or back, while you test, incubate
36:44
sort yourselves out. It happens fairly regularly on merchant vessels. The only reason it's become a story is because
36:52
and I use this term as an industry, real people, as in passengers, are being affected
36:58
Right, I've got it. Okay. So we don't know what's going to happen next
37:02
As I understand it, the president of the Canary Islands or the prime minister of the Canary Islands is from a different political party
37:07
from the prime minister of Spain. So when the prime minister of Spain says, go and land in the Canary Islands
37:11
the prime minister of the Canary Islands said, you're not landing here, lads, on your jogs. So where do you think they'll end up
37:16
It would just be a matter of finding somewhere where they can anchor, offload everybody into a quarantine
37:23
Now the interesting thing is that all of this was solved by COVID All of these practices and procedures were put into place in emergency terms by COVID My question is why hasn the IMO and the World Health Organization
37:38
taken those lessons, put them into a series of sensible procedures that any country can follow and then activate them
37:46
That makes more sense to me. Well, of course it does. Thank you, Ash. It's always a pleasure
37:51
I mean, it genuinely is. In fact, I mean, it's a privilege at the moment
37:55
given that there is so few people who can make such clear sense of what is going on
38:00
10.46 is the time you're listening to, James O'Brien on LBC. If you want to have a crack at making sense of how we got here
38:08
which is at least as interesting, but I would argue 10 times harder than what Ash has done
38:15
and Ash has risen to an extraordinary challenge, making sense of how we got here, offering up a, not unchallengeable
38:21
but certainly a very viable account of how we've ended up here
38:28
then I'll give you the money myself. 0345 6060 973 is the number you need
38:34
It's 1046. James O'Brien on LBC. There is a significant number of Americans
38:41
who just don't care or understand any of that that you've just heard from Ash
38:47
and who will continue to believe whatever bilge Donald Trump pumps into them
38:51
In the same way that there is a significant number of Brits who don't care one jot about the fact that their political hero, it was reported last week, received a £5 million secret gift from a cryptocurrency billionaire based in Thailand
39:06
we may look a little more closely at that in the next hour when we turn our attention to the other
39:13
leader who has got the traditional party system spooked and the levels of scrutiny he is receiving for
39:20
claims that turned out to be false regarding his involvement with the British Red Cross
39:26
and again I marvel at the gulf I don't know if you've kept a clock on this? Have you kept an eye on the people who
39:33
absolutely filled their boots with outrage when Keir Starmer was found to have accepted
39:37
a few free pairs of spectacles from a parliamentary colleague and what they've had to say or write about
39:43
Nigel Farage accepting £5 million from a cryptocurrency billionaire based in Thailand and then
39:51
on this very radio station in this very studio bigging up the company that the
39:57
billionaire owns 12% of without revealing that he was essentially sponsored by him
40:03
Was it Dennis Leary? Who was the American comic that said politicians
40:06
should have to wear badges on the back of their suits like Formula One drivers too
40:11
George Carling. Yeah, I don't know that Farage would have a big enough suit
40:14
to accommodate all of the people that have stuffed a few quid into his pockets
40:20
There's the gold bullion companies, there's GBBs, there's Cameo. Why was he making Cameo films if he'd been given five million quid
40:27
Oh, he claims it's for security. Yeah, well, he said he couldn't have surgeries in Clacton
40:31
because he didn't have any security. So he certainly wasn't spending his money on security
40:36
when he said that he had taken the money, or at least shortly after he'd taken the money
40:40
But one thing that did happen, of course, was that his girlfriend, who was working as a waitress
40:45
not in a cocktail bar, when they met, was able to buy a house for cash in Clacton
40:50
shortly after he'd received £5 million from a cryptocurrency billionaire. Just an extraordinary coincidence
40:56
I'm not even asking questions. I'm just chronicling coincidence. and a French newspaper has spoken to her
41:02
about where she got the money to buy the house that Nigel originally claimed he was going to buy
41:07
but then didn't buy and she bought, despite having been working as a waitress when they met
41:11
somehow by complete coincidence and just as an enormous stroke of luck
41:16
sparing them from what would have been a rather hefty tax bill. And you're going to love what she had to say
41:23
about where the money came from when I tell you a little bit later in the programme but before all of that, Helen is in Manchester
41:28
to take us down a slightly different straight from the one that Ash just took us down
41:32
Helen, what made you pick up the phone? Hi, James. Hello. I wanted to give you a call to have a chat about kayfabe
41:38
Marvellous. And that is the correct way to pronounce it. Kayfabe is the correct way to pronounce it
41:43
I wanted to chat with you because I actually wrote my university dissertation a long time ago
41:48
about the British professional wrestling industry. Okay. So as part of that
41:52
I had to do a lot of research into the history of professional wrestling, which is where kayfabe comes from
41:56
Go on. So, if you imagine a hundred, maybe just over a hundred years ago, it was the British wrestling industry very much revolved around music halls and travelling fairs
42:07
And the wrestling was basically people challenging the strongman. Okay. Obviously, the promoters, the people running the shows, they don't want to damage the reputation of their strongman
42:18
And they want to make as much money as possible and protect their industry to carry on making as much money as possible
42:25
Yes. So this is what kayfabe actually is. It's that protection of the industry and protection of the money
42:31
And personally, I think that definitely applies to Donald Trump and his family and his team
42:36
You did mention about Trump building a team around him of preferred personalities and people and yes men
42:42
In wrestling, this is known as building a stable. So when you get a group of wrestlers all together..
42:47
Until I thought of that, and you witnessed me think of it live
42:51
about ten minutes ago, I had not, for the life of me
42:54
been able to work out why he'd hired Robert Kennedy. I could kind of see why he'd hired Hegseth, Fox News
43:00
You know, he's objectively quite a handsome guy. But Kennedy has the whole air of almost a sort of science fiction creation
43:07
He's a great wrestling kind of characterisation. And he also, if you think about the..
43:13
In wrestling terms, what you would call the fans. Yes. If you apply that to Robert Kennedy
43:17
the people who follow Robert Kennedy, who like Robert Kennedy, his politics, his policies..
43:21
They come with him. His conspiracy theories. The vaccine... They're jumping on board
43:25
Ah, amazing. So that was just a sign-up. It's like a merger. It's like a merger of..
43:29
Yeah, one of the most famous wrestling stables in the history of the entire world wrestling industry
43:35
and further afield is actually called the New World Order. Yes. The NWO
43:41
Yes. So, again, there's a lot of wrestling fans out there thinking that's very telling, I think, at the moment as well
43:45
And Linda McMahon, the Education Secretary in Donald Trump's regime? She used to be the chairperson of WWE
43:51
Right, I'm going home. Seriously. In addition to that, Donald Trump is best friends with Vince McMahon
43:57
And Vince McMahon's husband. Yes, and he is the one who sort of took what was quite pantomimish
44:02
and turned it into something altogether more sophisticated and convincing. He turned it into the glitz and the gloss and the glamour
44:08
that we know WWE to be now, the huge worldwide phenomenon. Interestingly as well
44:15
WWE is one of very, very, very few major multi-million pound corporations
44:20
that is still very much family controlled. Okay, okay. So I think, again, you see that, I think
44:26
with Trump and the people that are around him, the people around him are his family
44:30
They're not people who are necessarily the most professional qualified people to be in those roles
44:35
And so you must stand there if you had a certain type of personality and a certain type of brain and a certain lack of conscience
44:43
You could stand in the middle of a WWE event and think to yourself
44:48
if only I could bring this to politics. Oh definitely and as I say for me personally as well it about protecting the Trump brand and the Trump legacy and i personally think there a lot to do with protecting all their financial interests they making so much money on the
45:06
side from bitcoins and mean coin and cryptocurrency and all these little side deals that are going on
45:11
and that is exactly what wrestling is very much smoke and mirrors you know that we want you to
45:16
watch what's going on in the ring we want you to be watching the bits that we want you to see and
45:20
not really be looking at the stuff that's going on behind the scenes. Ignore all those little things that don't really make sense
45:27
Like the fact that the negotiations that we spent most of this hour talking about
45:31
are being conducted by Donald Trump's son-in-law, who is simultaneously touting for business among Middle Eastern powers
45:37
with enormous vested interests in the peace process, despite, in the case of Jarrah Kushner
45:42
having absolutely no experience of diplomacy or diplomatic relations or peace negotiations or anything really much
45:49
except property development. And the other guy, what's the other guy? Is it Lutnick
45:55
The other guy that's there? Wyckoff, Steve Wyckoff, who Donald Trump met in a sandwich bar in New York a few years ago
46:00
and they shared anecdotes about developing skyscrapers. They're the guys. They're the dudes
46:06
Exactly. So you were the least surprised person in the country when you heard me mention Kayfabe earlier
46:11
Oh, absolutely. You've even got parallels with the Epstein files and the Speaking Out movement
46:17
which happened a few years ago in the professional wrestling industry, both in America and here
46:22
It was essentially the Me Too movement for the wrestling industry because it's the lack of regulation, particularly here in the UK
46:30
the lack of oversight has just allowed quite a dangerous industry, particularly for young people and women
46:37
There were hundreds and hundreds of stories came out of sexual assault
46:42
coercive control, and just people abusing their power as coaches or promoters
46:47
And again, I think you've got that parallel with the Epstein files
46:51
and Trump just dismissing them and just kind of... He's in a position, because he is so powerful
46:56
he can just dismiss it and he can just ignore it. Well, he can go further
47:00
He can claim he's been completely exonerated by them, which is, I mean, a blatant untruth
47:06
But it doesn't matter, because the whole thing is a blatant untruth
47:11
But the people lapping it up simultaneously know that and don't know it
47:15
Even when he was campaigning, he would do things that everyone who's a wrestling fan knows is a cheap pop
47:22
So if you are running a wrestling show in Manchester and you come out and go, good evening, Manchester
47:27
that is a cheap pop because everybody's going to cheer just because you've said the name of their hometown
47:32
So as Trump goes round, he's got all these little cheap pops. Lock her up with a big cheap pop
47:37
As soon as he said that, he knows the crowd's going to go wild and everyone's going to start cheering and getting on board with him
47:42
And again, that's just that way of manufacturing love for him. Yeah
47:47
The really scary part is at the moment, Trump is portraying himself as a baby face, a good guy
47:52
But at some point, when things stop going his way and he stops getting really what he wants
47:57
he's going to spit his dummy out and he's going to become a heel of a bad guy. And he's going to take his whole stable with him
48:03
and then we're all in real trouble. Well, if we're not already. This is extraordinary
48:07
Tune in to next week's episode. Well, I mean, yeah, do you know that I mentioned earlier
48:10
that Munya Chihuahua is doing a documentary on Channel 4 next Tuesday at 10 o'clock
48:17
which is digging into all of the stuff that you've talked about. I wonder how much you'll learn, if anything, from that
48:22
But for the rest of the audience, there's going to be some incredibly illuminating moments
48:27
Did you clock it immediately? From even before his first presidency. Wow
48:33
There's so, so many paroles to wrestling. So I owe Johnny Vaughan an apology, Helen
48:37
Yes, you probably do, I'm afraid. Sorry. It's not the first time. It's not at all
48:41
Can I just as well, can I just give a really quick shout-out every single person here in the UK who's listening
48:46
who did speak up, who did go to the police or do
48:50
what they felt was necessary for them during the speaking out movement. You were all
48:54
such incredibly brave, mostly women but there were some men involved as well. It didn't get picked up in the media really
49:01
I'm sorry about that. It's incredibly sad that no consequences really happened for most of the people
49:06
involved. But yeah, be proud of yourselves of speaking up and know that it did make a difference
49:12
Beautifully put. Thank you, Ellen, for all of that, especially the last bit. It's 11 o'clock
49:17
James O'Brien on LBC. It is three minutes after 11, and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
49:26
Good Lord. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. But I'm going to allow myself a little moment of reflection there
49:32
Reflected glory. I must be doing something right if I get calls like that
49:37
such different and contrasting calls on essentially the same subject, but not the same subject at all
49:45
So kudos to Elliot as well for introducing me to the word kayfabe, to the word kayfabe earlier today
49:51
It would appear like, it would appear as if I'm the last person on the planet
49:55
to have understood its relevance to discussions about Donald Trump, but it's the Kennedy angle, actually
50:00
that's got me shaking my head. Of course that's what they've done. They've hired a kind of character
50:04
or a caricature. Well, they are. They're caricatures. Speaking of caricatures, there are some cartoons of the Green Party leader
50:13
Zach Polanski, who is Jewish, that I think must at least come close
50:20
to fitting the description of being anti-Semitic. The Telegraph, most obviously, has really exaggerated the size of his nose
50:28
in a variety of cartoons. It's not just the Telegraph either, But it is, there are newspapers that are currently embarked upon repeated expressions of outrage about anti-Semitism appearing in other areas
50:48
I think the Times has run one as well. And they essentially portray Zach Polanski as having a very big nose, which is a classic anti-Semitic trope
50:59
I mean, caricaturists exaggerate characteristics. It's what they do. And I've tried to look at photographs of the bloke
51:13
to see whether he has a particularly big nose. And then I caught myself wondering
51:17
whether that was even a worthwhile exercise. Because even if he did, the fact that he is Jewish
51:24
if I were a cartoonist, I would just think, oh, well, I don't need to go there
51:28
I'll make his teeth look big, or I'll give him big ears, or something like that
51:33
And it just speaks to me about double, triple, quadruple standards that seem to be in play at the moment
51:43
And it is to the detriment in many ways of all of us. So just as people who think, for example, who claim to believe
51:51
and some people I think probably do actually believe it, that any critique of Israel's actions in the Middle East must be silenced
51:59
in case it is contributing to an upsurge in anti-Semitism rather than calling, for example, on people like Major General Avi Bruth
52:09
to be disciplined for claiming in reports in Israel overnight that he said we are killing like we haven't since 1967
52:18
regarding the IDF actions in the West Bank at the moment claiming that they routinely shooting dead stone Palestinian demonstrators And of course if Jewish settlers in that illegal settlers in that region were to be attacking troops by throwing stones they would not be shot dead
52:40
It's an extraordinary report, which I urge you to look into a little further
52:45
Haaretz, an Israeli publication, describes it thus in an editorial. His apartheidist approach, under which the army shoots only Palestinian stone-throwers
52:53
not Jewish ones, was justified on the grounds of the sociological consequences of shooting at the latter
52:58
Did he take into account the sociological consequences of these lame monuments on the Palestinians
53:05
And so, those of us who absolutely abhor anti-Semitism cannot stop talking about the hideous actions being perpetrated by the IDF
53:16
because to do so would be to excuse them. And the links that are drawn between the two are insidious, and they are, of course, drawn by anti-Semites and also by the Israeli regime, which claims, of course, that its actions, including up to and including these, are undertaken for the protection of the safety of all Jewish people
53:35
So the challenge we've got, and I'm not ready to do a phone-in about it yet, the challenge we've got is working out what is and what is not hateful in these contexts
53:46
There's certainly nothing remotely hateful about describing the words of an IDF commander
53:52
but I'll get messages, if I haven't already, claiming that I'm somehow contributing to anti-Semitism in this country
53:58
by complaining about genocide in Gaza. Not from good faith contributors. I'm happy to give you some benefit of the doubt
54:06
so you don't really understand what a dangerous and actually quite disgusting argument that is
54:12
But plenty of people understand all too well how bad it is an argument
54:15
People like Benjamin Netanyahu, who have, of course, attacked our prime minister. So there's so many different levels of standard in play
54:23
when it comes to anti-Semitism at the moment that it is hard to find a really helpful guide through the mess
54:30
I'd recommend Daniel Finkelstein in The Times today, as I have often done in the past
54:35
I can't imagine we agree about much politically, but he is on these subjects and indeed on many others
54:39
just a wise councillor. He is a wise writer whose own experiences on social media
54:47
are becoming close to intolerable by his own account because he comes under attack from all sides
54:52
when he offers up his words of, in my humble opinion, wisdom, wisdom
54:59
So I don't know what to make of the fact that Zach Polanski, a Jew, is currently subject to what appears to me
55:05
to be anti-Semitic tropes in British national newspapers. And speaking of British national newspapers
55:11
the Daily Mail reports today that 30 Green candidates have been probed over anti-Semitism
55:18
Historical anti-Semitism. Some of it, of course, relatively recent. Allegedly relatively recent
55:25
But when was the last time the Daily Mail ran a running tally of all the Reform UK candidates that have been accused
55:30
of anti-Semitism or racism or, I mean, sundry other bigotries and prejudices
55:36
Riley's reform roundup has, of course, been on hiatus during PURDA, but newspapers are not required to observe these kind of rules
55:44
So that's not a rhetorical question. Well, it is a rhetorical question, but it's also an interesting one, right
55:49
When was Nigel Farage's outfit exposed to the same level of scrutiny
55:53
that the Green Party has currently been exposed to? Or when was Nigel Farage himself remembered with shudders
56:00
by many of his contemporaries at Dulwich College as a vile anti-Semite who would routinely make jokes about gas chambers
56:06
about Hitler being right, about his sympathies for the Nazi movement, things that he has, I think he's sort of denied them
56:13
but all of the people that have made the allegations outnumber the one man who denies them by a fairly hefty factor
56:21
When was the last time his party was exposed? because this does nobody any good
56:26
least of all the Jewish population of this country. Anti-Semitism done by one party is awful
56:31
Anti-Semitism done by another party is fine. Another reason to read Daniel Finkelstein this morning
56:38
He's also Jewish. Which, of course, makes the allegations of anti-Semitism unlikely to reach all the way to the top of the party
56:48
And just in case you're minded, because I am going to talk about this and I'm going to encourage you to talk about it as well
56:58
I am going to remind you that Caroline Lucas, the former MP for Brighton Pavilion
57:04
who led the Green Party at three different times between 2003 and 2018
57:10
has also condemned the allegedly anti-Semitic statements made by a succession of Green Party members
57:18
statements that have now come to light from a handful of Green Party candidates
57:22
are totally unacceptable and require immediate action. There's no place for anti-Semitism
57:27
or any hate speech in the party. So, by all means, put Caroline Lucas on your list of people
57:33
who are conspiring against Zach Polanski and his Green Party because they're the only people telling the truth
57:39
But that would be Caroline Lucas, who arguably did more for the Green Party in this country
57:45
than anybody else alive. so the scrutiny is unbalanced
57:55
and if you are a genuine opponent of anti-semitism you want the scrutiny to be identical
58:01
you want Farage's schoolboy not schoolboy because he was 18 I think when some of it happened
58:09
so he was an adult you want Farage's anti-semitism alleged anti-semitism to be
58:13
reported at least as comprehensively as the alleged anti-Semitism of somebody who isn't running for political office at all
58:22
or certainly not on a national level. And you want both parties to be exposed to identical levels of scrutiny
58:30
And they're not, because there's no earthly way the Daily Mail is ever going to run a front page about all the members
58:35
of Nigel Farage's Tim Pot outfit who are facing allegations or similar of hideous racism and anti-Semitism
58:47
How many people did Riley's Reform Roundup identify when we were permitted to run it
58:53
I think it was more than 30, not specifically anti-Semitism, but all manners of hatreds and bigotries
59:00
So I don't think I am currently, and with the council elections, of course, unfolding tomorrow
59:07
I don't think I'm currently ready to have that conversation about where the proper path to countering this particular form of hatred lies because it's so confused
59:22
And some of that confusion, of course, has been deliberately sown. But I am pretty clear on how important it is for me and by association for you not to become the yin to the far right's yang
59:37
I can't give Zach Polanski a free pass just because the Daily Mail gives Nigel Farage one
59:44
Do you see what I mean? Anymore, as someone who historically leans more to the left than the right
59:50
I couldn't give Jeremy Corbyn when he accommodated anti-Semitism in the Labour Party
59:55
on an unacceptable and frequently hideous scale... I couldn't give him a free pass just because the Daily Mail gave Boris Johnson a free pass
1:00:04
with his hideous comments about burkas and similar. So you can't do that. That's footballification
1:00:14
And you're going to be accused of it whatever you do. Of course you are. You should see my inbox
1:00:19
I mean, it's actually objectively hilarious. It's a miracle these people are capable of operating radios
1:00:26
But you can express dissatisfaction with Boris Johnson or Nigel Farage or Liz Truss or David Cameron
1:00:33
and that means in their eyes that you are a Jeremy Corbyn fan
1:00:38
So you then express dissatisfaction with Jeremy Corbyn, and that means in the eyes of a different constituency of listener
1:00:45
who have more in common with each other than they ever were with me, that you are a Boris Johnson fan or a Boris Johnson apologist
1:00:52
And then, of course, you introduce other elements to the conversation. In recent weeks, I've been accused..
1:00:58
I got one message the other day that said, oh, I see your mate, Zach Polanski, is in trouble
1:01:03
I thought, on what possible planet are you chalking him up as my mate? I don't count a single politician among my friendship group
1:01:09
but, I mean, the ones I've never met are even further away from it than the ones that I have met
1:01:14
And I suddenly realised, oh, crikey, yes. He's perceived as being of the left
1:01:20
therefore he must be identical in the same way that you can barely put a cigarette paper
1:01:26
between Rory Stewart and Nadine Dorries because they're both Tories so they must be identical
1:01:33
I mean that's a conversation and quite possibly a book for another day
1:01:38
11.16 is the time which means they will also well I can't believe James is joining in
1:01:45
the hatchet job or the smears on Zach Polanski but if I don't look at the allegations
1:01:50
that are being made against him, and I don't look at the attention that he is currently receiving
1:01:57
then I become vulnerable to the reality of what the right-wing media does on a daily basis
1:02:06
And I'm comfortable with that for two reasons. Number one, I've been doing this job a very long time
1:02:11
and I answer only to myself. And number two, in the context of my conscience
1:02:17
I answer only to myself. and number two I have the enormous privilege
1:02:23
of being able to listen to you every morning and of being able to let you
1:02:28
often actually sometimes I worry more often than is healthy for somebody whose job is supposed to involve
1:02:35
laying down the law and then sticking to it whatever the reaction
1:02:38
often you change my mind about things so let me tell you some things that are true
1:02:45
these are not opinions they are counting. Nigel Farage is getting a complete free pass
1:02:53
from members of the media, including some I honestly thought would do better
1:02:58
who are going to be directing all guns blazing at Zach Polanski
1:03:03
Okay? The reason being that they are worried about how well the Green Party is doing
1:03:08
So, things that are true. Nigel Farage is getting a free pass
1:03:12
for egregious events. No proof yet that any rules have been broken
1:03:19
but taking five million quid in secret from a Thailand-based billionaire, claiming it's for your personal security
1:03:27
despite simultaneously claiming that you couldn't hold surgeries in Clacton because of your security
1:03:33
So if you pay five million quid for the security that can't guarantee you'll be safe at a constituency surgery, mate
1:03:38
then you should probably get back in touch with the security company. And it is a matter of record that he did once have a milkshake thrown at him
1:03:45
So, you know, this is real. He's claimed, of course, to be the victim of a firebombing attack as well
1:03:51
but we are looking into that, and at the moment, all we can establish is that the Metropolitan Police are investigating
1:03:57
or did investigate, an alleged attempted burglary at one of his homes in Bromley
1:04:01
with no mention of arson or firebombing whatsoever. It's not as if he's ever lied about stuff like that before
1:04:09
Except, of course, he has. when he claimed that a mechanic in France or Belgium had told him
1:04:13
that his wheel nuts had been tampered with and that the reason, that proof that an assassination attempt
1:04:19
had been undertaken was when the wheel fell off his Volvo. Except some pesky journalists tracked down the mechanic responsible
1:04:26
and it turned out, A, that he couldn't speak English. Luckily, the journalists, unlike Farage, could speak French
1:04:31
and he revealed to them that he'd said absolutely nothing of the sort
1:04:35
and couldn't have done if he'd wanted to because they communicated with each other through sign language
1:04:40
So, would you trust a man who lied about an assassination attempt on himself
1:04:46
Or, of course, more pertinently, is it possible that a man who has lied about an assassination attempt on himself
1:04:52
despite knowing full well that he was lying, might also be economical with the actuality about a so-called firebomb attack
1:04:58
while trying to wriggle off the hook on which he has found himself
1:05:02
after journalists discovered he'd accepted £5 million in secret from a foreign billionaire, foreign-based billionaire
1:05:08
who owns 12% of a cryptocurrency company that lo and behold, a few months later
1:05:12
after trousering the cheque, Nigel Farage popped up on LBC singing the praises of
1:05:17
while claiming that he needed the money for security, but his security was so poor, having received the money
1:05:22
that he couldn't actually have constituency surgeries in Clacton because he didn't feel safe, on account of the fact that someone once threw a milkshake at him
1:05:32
Are you still with me at the back? So, things that we can say for certain
1:05:36
Zach Polanski's scrutiny is ludicrously unbalanced compared to Nigel Farage's. But that doesn't mean that you can't or that you shouldn't or that you wouldn't scrutinise Zach Polanski
1:05:51
And that's what we're going to do. Let's go. OK, so today he has essentially apologised
1:05:57
That's two apologies in a week, which is a mark A, of a troubling back catalogue
1:06:02
and B, how spooked the right wing is by the popularity of him and his party
1:06:07
He claimed that he had been a spokesperson for the British Red Cross
1:06:13
Okay? He has clarified that he was not. He wrote on his personal..
1:06:19
In fact, look, I'm going to take a break. I'll come back and run you through the Polanski files
1:06:22
and then you tell me genuinely how much it matters. 0345 6060 973
1:06:32
OK? Why do you talk about Nigel Farage every day? Ask Steve
1:06:36
I'll tell you, Steve, because you're still listening. And I've got more faith in you than he has
1:06:40
I think that if I get it right, you'll care about somebody seeking high political office
1:06:45
in this country taking a £5 million gift from a Thailand-based billionaire
1:06:51
who uses a Thai name in Southeast Asia to conduct his business
1:06:55
And I think if I get it right, you're still capable of caring about that sort of thing
1:06:59
just as you're capable of caring about someone who lied about an assassination attack
1:07:02
That's why I do it. Because I hold you in higher regard than they do. I still think you're capable of carrying it
1:07:08
in the same way that I think millions and millions of Americans, if they'd been better served
1:07:12
would have been clearer about what was coming. So that's why. And thank you for staying there
1:07:19
because it means somewhere deep down inside, you know it's possible too. It's 1121
1:07:24
James O on LBC So I don know what we do That why I get it absolutely front and centre that the scrutiny being put on Zach Polanski at the moment is an absolute joke
1:07:36
compared to the scrutiny being applied to Nigel Farage. Just as the scrutiny applied to Keir Starmer's spectacles
1:07:44
was and is an absolute joke compared to the amount of attention paid
1:07:48
to Nigel Farage's friendly £5 million present. OK? but you can't ignore either
1:07:56
You couldn't ignore Starmer and his ill-advised decision to accept the largesse of Waheed Ali
1:08:02
and you can't ignore Polanski and his ill-advised decision last week to retweet
1:08:07
sort of attacks upon the police officers trying to keep the residents of Golders Green safe
1:08:14
from a possible suicide bomber and now claim when he was running for the deputy leadership
1:08:19
of the Green Party that he had been a spokesperson for the British Red Cross, something that the British Red Cross felt compelled to contradict
1:08:28
saying that he had not been a spokesperson for the charity and that it had raised the issue with
1:08:33
the Greens. And then with echoes of Angela Rayner, there are also questions regarding his ownership
1:08:40
and residence in a houseboat, which emerged after questions were asked about his council tax
1:08:48
arrangements. And when those questions were asked, he moved from claims when it was put up for sale
1:08:56
that it was their amazing home and that they'd lived there for three years
1:08:59
to claiming when questions were asked about council tax arrangements that he and his partner
1:09:05
only stayed there occasionally. One of a number of curious aspects of the party leader's life
1:09:12
unearthed by a Times investigation before the local elections. The Times, rather less coverage dedicated to the £5 million received by Nigel Farage
1:09:25
So, the reason I keep mentioning that, I've mentioned the House in Clacton. The reason I've mentioned that is because I actually don't have a map on how to do this stuff
1:09:36
It sometimes feels like I'm the only person pointing out the absolutely enormous scandal of a £5 million gift to a man who claimed he was leaving politics shortly before he mysteriously and miraculously returned to politics
1:09:50
And immediately started bigging up the company that is 12% owned by the bloke that gave him £5 million
1:09:56
There's a part of me that thinks we shouldn't be talking about anything else in the British media at the moment
1:10:02
Because it is so huge to me, that story. But I know that's not true
1:10:08
And I also know that Zach Polanski needs to be properly scrutinised
1:10:16
if the popularity of the Green Party is to persist. It is a necessary consequence
1:10:23
So we live in a country where if you are of the left, you will come under concerted and constant fire
1:10:32
from most of our media, Most of our historical and mainstream media, and since Elon Musk bought Twitter, social media is hideously biased against you as well
1:10:42
OK? I am not, for a nanosecond, disputing that. It is a utterly, utterly bent system and the most unlevel political playing field imaginable
1:10:58
Boris Johnson can be forced to step down as Prime Minister because he couldn't cobble together a cabinet of Conservatives
1:11:07
but he can waltz off over the sunset to get paid half a million quid by the Daily Mail
1:11:11
who will never have a bad word to say about whoever it is they want in Downing Street next
1:11:16
until the person they've installed in Downing Street mess it up completely
1:11:20
Step forward, Theresa May, Liz Truss, Boris Johnson. so it's completely biased it is hideously bent and all of the fellow travelers and useful idiots
1:11:32
and client journalists in the broadcast media are dancing to an almost identical tune so
1:11:39
i i i can't um i can't quite believe i'm going to ask you the question that i'm going to ask you because i think
1:11:49
you could be forgiven for thinking it's my job to tell you the answer to this question
1:11:57
How do you decide what matters? Because if you're going to tell me none of this matters, we're going to fall out
1:12:08
If you're going to tell me this is at least as important as five million pound gifts
1:12:12
or allegations of telling Jewish contemporaries at school that they should have been gassed
1:12:18
we're going to fall out. How do we decide what matters? How do we decide what matters
1:12:28
So Polanski is accused of some possible sleight of hand with regard to his council tax arrangements
1:12:38
when he lived on a houseboat and he is accused of having claimed to be a spokesperson
1:12:44
for the British Red Cross when he had fundraised for them, but not been asked to be a spokesperson for them
1:12:53
And at these fundraisers, he would go on stage and speak for them about the amazing work that they did
1:12:58
I used the wrong word, and I accept that. He has apologised for hastily sharing a tweet
1:13:06
which was attacking the police for heavy-handedness in capturing a man who they believe could have been a suicide bomber
1:13:17
in Golders Green, a live case now, so we can't say that much about it
1:13:25
And I just want you to tell me how you decide what matters to you
1:13:30
when the playing field is so unlevel. is that sometimes worry that my gut reaction
1:13:39
if I could somehow exist in a vacuum in a state of pure objectivity
1:13:43
I would not give a fig about the fact that he claimed
1:13:49
he could enlarge the breasts of a female reporter using hypnotherapy right, but it gets covered so widely
1:13:56
that I find myself thinking oh I don't want to become as bad as the
1:13:59
people I criticise all the time, maybe I should be paying some attention to this, maybe
1:14:03
it does cast a shadow over his integrity. Maybe it raises questions about his trustability
1:14:09
Maybe it, um, what's the world that I want? Maybe it does have a wider ramification. So
1:14:17
that anecdote, that event actually does speak to character. And then another bit of me says
1:14:24
mate, he was a hypnotherapist. So what? And I haven't lost the ability to, um
1:14:32
make those distinctions, but I'm just interested in how you do it
1:14:38
So, simple question, how much of the mud being thrown at Zach Polanski
1:14:44
at the moment is going to stick? How much should stick? How much will stick
1:14:50
And how do you deal with the fact? How do you deal with the fact that the scale and tone of coverage of him at the moment is so hideously at odds with the scale and the tone of coverage
1:15:09
of a man accused of believing Hitler was right during his school days
1:15:15
and taking five million quid from a Thailand-based billionaire secretly in the last two years
1:15:23
I just want to know, how do you do it? How do we do it? How do we know? How much should I care about this stuff and why
1:15:31
0345 6060 973 is the number that you need. Dominic Ellis is here now with your headlines
1:15:38
James O'Brien on LBC. And the other question I am going to ask you is
1:15:44
what are they so scared of? I've been a little bit remiss in reporting the rise of the Greens
1:15:50
But it's not a phone-in topic, really, in obvious ways. I don't do phone-ins
1:15:56
What do you like about this lot and what don't you like about that lot? So I've been a little bit remiss about the rise of the Greens
1:16:03
and therefore perhaps a little bit surprised by their surging popularity, which I think, like reforms, can be put down in large part
1:16:11
to major disillusionment with the two main parties. But I see them queuing up now
1:16:17
The Times have undertaken a special investigation and the Daily Mail have dedicated a front page
1:16:22
and have done for a while. I told you they've got a special little caption, beware the green menace
1:16:27
What are they so scared of? 0345 6060 973. It may be something that you're scared of too
1:16:33
Or it may be something that you rather like the look of. That's what I love about that question
1:16:38
What are they so scared of? Well, they're scared with good reason, James. Let me tell you why
1:16:41
Or, well, they're scared of this, James. Let me tell you why that's bad
1:16:45
So what are they so scared of? And what's the correct way
1:16:50
to deal with the things that they're finding out. Let's go to Claire in York first
1:16:55
Claire, what would you like to say? Hi. Hi, James. Yeah, I mean, for a start
1:17:02
I think the left have been much harder on Labour than they have been on the Green Party
1:17:08
And I think it's been really quite unwarranted and disgusting what they've done, you know, like over the suits and the spectacles
1:17:16
I mean, the left were just as bad as the right against... Are you sure? Yes, I do. I really do. Anyway, I think Polanski and Farage are different sides of the same coin. I think they're both sort of peddling sort of a shallow charisma and TikTok videos and fantasy policies
1:17:36
The headline in the Times today says literally in quotes Farage of the left faces scrutiny over narrowboat and CV
1:17:45
which I'm going to let you expand on your point I promise but my initial reaction to that is
1:17:50
well they're hardly comparing like with like if he's been a little bit economical with the actuality about a narrowboat
1:17:55
and whether he was a spokesperson or a fundraiser for the British Red Cross
1:17:59
it's not really up there with lying about assassination attempts and taking five million quid in secret off a billionaire
1:18:04
whose business you then big up on the radio. No, but it's peddling in things that appeal to people's sort of vulnerabilities
1:18:15
And, for instance, you've just said, though, oh, it doesn't really matter about him, you know, about hypnotism and the women's breasts
1:18:22
Well, actually, I think it really does. Tell me why. Because it's women's insecurities
1:18:27
He was playing on... When women... I've been to a hypnotherapist before through, you know
1:18:33
well, mental health problems. But the thing is, is that it plays on
1:18:41
people are very vulnerable when they go to people like hypnotherapists, and it's playing on people's vulnerabilities to advance his own
1:18:50
whatever he was doing. And I find he's doing that with Green policies
1:18:56
which are just unworkable. I mean, the defence alone with the Green Party is really
1:19:02
questionable and it changes from one day to the next. But, you know, and you only have to look at Caroline Lucas's reply
1:19:12
Do you know that comment, that tweet she put up? You know, the comments that she got from Green voters were disgusting
1:19:21
I mean, really, really disgusting. Swearing at her, abusing her. These are Green voters telling her, you know
1:19:29
that they were glad that she wasn't the leader anymore and she should just go away and die
1:19:34
I mean, it was really quite disgusting. I'm going to take your word for that. I've got no reason not to, but I haven't..
1:19:39
I've read reports of what she put, but I don't go on Twitter anymore, partly because it's full of comments like the ones that you just alluded to
1:19:47
So, I mean, you've got quite a lot on your plate this morning
1:19:52
because you cross... And I understand all of it, but I don't know if I need to encourage you to zone in on a particular bit of it
1:19:57
You're right that elements... Well, can I go into the... For instance, their main policy for Greens is green energy
1:20:06
And yet, because they've got a lot of nimby voters in their constituents
1:20:12
they've been campaigning in some areas to stop... Labour is trying to get... Yeah, I just need to be slightly careful about local election issues
1:20:18
because I get into trouble if we say anything. I'm never entirely sure on what the rules are
1:20:23
so I lean more towards being too careful as opposed to not quite careful enough
1:20:29
So I don't necessarily want to get into the policy platform at this point in the conversation
1:20:34
We can do that on Friday if the opportunity presents itself. But on the personality level
1:20:40
you're crossed with the left for going in harder on Labour. And by the left, you mean the sort of continuity Corbyn contingent
1:20:47
going in harder on the Labour government than they have done on either Farage or Polanski
1:20:52
But I'm interested in what are the rights scared of? Why are the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph
1:20:57
and the time so terrified by Zach Polanski? Well, I think they think that disillusioned voters
1:21:05
will either go for one extreme or another, and the two extremes are either the Green Party or Reform
1:21:13
and the likes of the Telegraph will want them to go for Reform
1:21:17
instead of the Greens. And the Daily Mail. Yeah, and, well, I think the Telegraph too
1:21:24
Yes, of course. I was just talking about today's front pages, that's all
1:21:28
not about the central point. It's funny, you know, I've got one message saying, this lady is completely right, I couldn't agree with her more
1:21:34
and another saying, what a disingenuous caller, cut her off now. Last time I called you, you did the same
1:21:41
you had two opposing views. But, I mean, I just see, I have this antennae for sort of
1:21:52
I just get my heckles up, charisma, which I think, it really
1:21:59
hides. It's a substitute for character. Yeah, and I just like quiet
1:22:03
substance just beavering away. And I just find all these TikTok videos, it just seems
1:22:09
all about, it's That could be our age though, you know, that
1:22:13
it's just a new means of communication and we might have been a bit left behind
1:22:17
Because I can't get into policy with you. I can't explain why
1:22:21
Okay, final bit. I think what you said about the and this is my male privilege isn it I missed that actually about the hypnosis stuff and the preying on women insecurities There a little bit of dispute about what did and what did not happen
1:22:37
but the founder of the clinic where he works said that hypnotherapists operating out of his Harley Street premises
1:22:43
did try to enlarge the breasts of female patients, adding, actually, what you can get using the mind is one cup size up or down
1:22:53
so Polanski... I just send shivers through my body because I can just see, I can just feel
1:22:59
the hope that a woman who felt badly about her body will have believed in that
1:23:06
and he will have known it wasn't possible. He would be an absolute idiot
1:23:13
And I can't now, as a bloke, I can't now tell. I'll sound like Michael Winner, won't I
1:23:17
In those old dreadful adverts, if I tell you to calm down, it's not that big a deal. I don't want to because I think
1:23:22
Now that you've made it clear to me, it is quite a big deal. Well, it goes beyond that one thing
1:23:28
It goes to a mindset that you will say anything, even if it really is playing on someone's insecurity
1:23:37
to gain advantage in some way. So that's 2013. I don't know what the statute of limitations is on behaviour
1:23:45
when it comes to forgiveness. If you're Nigel Farage, it's minus 10 years, I think
1:23:49
or certainly minus 40 years. But what about the British Red Cross story
1:23:55
Well, again, I think that's another example of that. And I also think criticising the police was another way
1:24:04
because he knew, I think he sees over in America how the left have galvanised against ICE
1:24:12
You know, it's a real vote winner. And I think he's an opportunist
1:24:16
I think he thinks, oh, look, over there, everyone's galvanised against ice um um so let's have a bit of that let's have a bit of the anti-police
1:24:27
so you you you are describing a relatively shameless opportunist yes that's what that's
1:24:34
what i see i'm afraid that's what i see and i i think i've got quite a good antenna even though
1:24:39
i say it myself i think i've got quite a good antenna for it okay you know no well you've
1:24:44
You've backed it up, and as you say, you'd have been more than happy to dig into policy
1:24:48
but I'm just a little bit wary of doing that on the day before. If you'll allow me on another time, I'd love to talk about it
1:24:54
Always welcome, Claire. Always welcome. I mean, obviously, we will be returning to this
1:24:58
And so there is a... I don't want to put words into Claire's mouth
1:25:02
but I think there is a Keir Starmer supporter who... I'll just double-check. Someone who quite likes the cut of Keir Starmer's jib
1:25:10
Am I right, Claire? Yeah, I think he's quite diligent. No, that's all. I just wanted to double-check that I wasn't putting words in your mouth
1:25:16
because some people are already claiming that you're some sort of conservative or reform stooge
1:25:23
It was obvious to me, who listened to you, that you were drawn towards the style that Keir Starmer demonstrates
1:25:29
No one really ever accuses Keir Starmer of being overburdened with charisma, for good or for ill
1:25:35
So I get some of that. you can't ignore this stuff, but I'm very conscious of not wanting to over-inflate it either
1:25:43
And when you compare it to what has been done by right-wing politicians
1:25:47
who really get away with almost anything and everything, and if they do have to atone for something
1:25:54
they come back 24 hours later with entirely new reputations. How do you decide what matters
1:26:02
And quite a lot of criticism coming in for Claire. I thought she was, well, she's got more guts than you have
1:26:09
if you're just texting abuse. She's made her case. I thought she explained it rather powerfully
1:26:14
She had evidence, she had it backed up, she had knowledge and she had antennae. What have you got apart from smarmy little texts
1:26:20
Go on, prove me wrong. 0345 6060973. Because otherwise, it's going to feel an awful lot like 10 years ago
1:26:27
where everybody who dares to speak out against the dear leader is accrued of treachery or dishonesty, disingenuousness
1:26:35
when in fact, you know, the fellow's got questions to answer. And every time he's asked to answer them
1:26:41
he seems to end up either apologising or admitting he was wrong. And that's not good. It's 11.45
1:26:46
James O'Brien on LBC. Fabio speaks directly to my curdled conscience. I care a lot, James, because I think if you criticise people you're opposed to
1:26:56
you should be just as critical as those who you are more aligned to
1:27:00
Does it end up being an unbalanced pylon? Unfortunately, yes, but my fear of going, oh, it doesn't matter, just erodes trust and things get worse and worse
1:27:09
There's no earthly way that a £5 million secret gift from a bloke set to benefit to the tune of gazillions of pounds in the event of Nigel Farage becoming Prime Minister is anything like as significant as a bloke who claimed to be a British Red Cross spokesman when in fact he was just a fundraiser
1:27:29
but how do you, I mean what is the metric by which you measure it
1:27:33
Should I completely ignore the Zach Polanski stuff because it is as nothing compared to the Farage stuff
1:27:40
that the other lot ignore? I honestly don't know, Fabio gets it completely
1:27:44
but Claire, I didn't mean to give the impression that Claire was receiving undiluted criticism
1:27:50
quite the opposite in fact I just found the criticism oddly familiar
1:27:53
and familiarly crass let me read you some of the praise I hadn't thought of the Polanski breast issue before
1:28:00
and now the police post. This caller has actually changed my perspective. I love your show
1:28:04
It's an oasis of common sense in a world of madness. And then obviously calling, well, not obviously
1:28:11
and then Chris calls for a sort of more unity among any left-leaning parties
1:28:15
in order to defeat the possible rise of the far right. Khadija writes
1:28:20
Polanski and Farage matter equally and should be equally scrutinised. The scrutiny of Keir Starmer feels cruel
1:28:25
compared to collective corruption of the right-wing politicians who have done much worse
1:28:29
I don't know what that means, Khadija. What does equally scrutinised mean? Does it mean pay the same attention to the misdemeanours
1:28:36
even if one of them is absolutely enormous and one of them is relatively minor? It's a bit like Brexit all over again
1:28:43
99% of the world's economists think it's a bloody stupid idea, but here's some clown who thinks it's brilliant
1:28:48
Let's treat them as equal and opposite forces and give them exactly the same amount of time each
1:28:52
I don't know. I honestly don't know. And just because the Daily Mail is never going to dedicate
1:28:56
as much attention to the hideousness of their favourite politicians as it does to the mild misbehaviour of the politicians they despise
1:29:07
whether it's Angela Rayner, Keir Starmer and now Zach Polanski. What are we... I don't know what the rest of us are supposed to do
1:29:14
But a bit more love for Claire. This woman is excellent. An opportunist fits the bill precisely
1:29:18
I too have been feeling very uncomfortable with the mounting list of mistakes. I don't care which party a person belongs to
1:29:25
A lie is a lie. Your last call-up was bang on, in my opinion. She's 100% sussed, both Zach Polanski and Nigel Farage
1:29:32
writes Dave in Reading. Completely agree with Claire, writes Darren, especially on the hypnosis and the opportunism
1:29:38
whereas Chas writes, yes, James, another liberal siding with fascists. Hello? Sorry? What? Pardon
1:29:45
So that's what I meant by the familiar, but, I mean, unforgivably..
1:29:50
What does that mean, Chas? A liberal siding with fascists. I don't know, you tell me
1:29:56
Neil's in Rushcliffe, Neil what would you like to say? Hello James The issue for me, and it ties in maybe with that last comment that you've just read out
1:30:04
the guy who said the Liberals siding with fascists. What does he mean
1:30:09
Well, I think I know what he means, but my point, if you like, goes to it
1:30:14
I don't know what he means. Okay, well, what he means is, if I just make my point, I'll then explain how the two link together
1:30:22
My point is that my concern about Zach Polanski, but this also applies to other parties and other people as well
1:30:28
is that he comes across as what I would call reflex righteousness
1:30:34
And when somebody and a party is built on that sort of reaction
1:30:39
they are so certain in their moral righteousness about everything all the time
1:30:43
that I find it very, very hard to take that seriously because life experience, whatever, thinking about things
1:30:52
tells you that anyone who's so certain in their views, whether it's on the left or whether it's on the right
1:30:57
usually leads you to a place which is not a good place. And that guy there who wrote in and said
1:31:03
well, that's another liberal, if you like, and you're fascism, that, to me
1:31:07
is a demonstration of that sort of reflex righteousness. Somebody who is so..
1:31:12
I see, if you disagree with me, if you disagree with me, then you must be a fascist
1:31:16
Who are the sort of famously uncertain politicians that you admire? Well, let me put it this way
1:31:25
I'm at the moment and have been for quite some time politically homeless
1:31:29
and one of the reasons for that is because I don't see many people that I feel that I could admire
1:31:33
Well, historically, then, I'm just drawn to the idea of politicians who don't come across as certain
1:31:38
Who are you thinking of? Well, it's probably also worth saying that I started off on the left wing myself
1:31:46
and have gradually found myself drifting to other places. I mean, I did a social sciences degree in my year
1:31:52
I mean, I will ask you again. Just because I'm genuinely curious. Because, I mean, it's a very easy thing to say is
1:31:58
I don't like him because he's so certain of his opinions. And I don't like people who are certain of their opinions
1:32:03
So who are the politicians that you like who aren't certain of their opinions? I'm struggling to actually come up with any
1:32:11
I thought you might. But what I would say is they're probably..
1:32:14
Can we think of one? Because it sounds to me like it's the righteousness you don't like, not the reflex
1:32:22
What about politicians who are reflex racist? What do you think of them
1:32:26
Well, I'd apply the same sort of logic. I'd say there's a reflex righteousness there
1:32:31
It just takes a different form. They're eating the cats, they're eating the dogs, or immigrants are to blame for everything
1:32:36
Or I want to blame the people in small boats who haven't done anything wrong for the crimes of the people who have
1:32:43
Well, that, if you like, moral certainty shows itself in different ways
1:32:47
If you look across the pond at the moment, I mean, Pete Hegsworth is a good example
1:32:51
his reflex righteousness extends right to his sort of right-wing Christian beliefs
1:32:58
We can't think of anyone, either of us I suppose you want a politician
1:33:02
who admits mistakes and apologises so Keir Starmer then would be your man
1:33:07
Well, you could say on one level but he ultimately I still want
1:33:14
somebody who has got some moral certainty about what they're about and that for me is where Keir Starmer comes unstuck
1:33:20
has no ultimate, I don't think... So you want politicians... You don't like politicians who've got certainty
1:33:26
but you want politicians who've got certainty. I want politicians who've got the right certainty
1:33:30
I can see why you're homeless. Are you sure about... Are you certain about this, Neil
1:33:35
I am certain about it. I want certainty, but I want it to be the right sort of certainty
1:33:39
Well, there we go. We got there in the end. You want it to be the things that you're certain about
1:33:44
It is 11.56. And probably we all do too, except me, because I'm cursed with this curious..
1:33:49
Curious, I don't know, obsession with not turning into the enemy. Dale's in Edinburgh
1:33:54
Dale, what would you like to say? Yeah, about your question about... Hello, James. Sorry
1:33:58
Hello, Dale. That's all right. About the question about the Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph
1:34:04
and other media outlets, I think Nigel Farage is their king in waiting
1:34:09
I think they've given him the pipe and slippers, and they don't like any threat whatsoever
1:34:14
I don't think they see Keir Starmer as a threat. I think they see him gone. and I don't think they see Tories
1:34:19
because they've got half the Tories with them. So I think the papers and social media, whatever
1:34:25
see Zak Polanski to all his rights and wrongs as the main threat to the local courage is
1:34:31
I'm going to dilute that ysis, if I may. Yes. Just down to this week
1:34:36
I don't think you're correct in the context of the next general election
1:34:40
I think a lot of things can change before then and for all of the madness currently unfolding
1:34:46
I still think that Keir Starmer might be a little bit underpriced. But that's a conversation for a different day
1:34:51
But in the context of this week, they're terrified that Polanski is going to spoil Farage's party
1:34:57
Yes. Hopefully Starmer pulls it out of the bag. I don't want to do it
1:35:01
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Bada-bing, bada-boom, bada-boom, bada-bing, bada-bing. You're not allowed to talk about anything
1:35:05
We can talk about the next general election, but you can't talk about anything that's happening tomorrow. What are they so scared of? Just that
1:35:10
I mean, I'm doing that thing that we often do on the programme, Dale, where we're overthinking things, and it's not about..
1:35:15
about policies or anything like that. They just... I mean, if they cared about
1:35:19
policies rather than personalities, they probably wouldn't have described Liz Truss as the best thing
1:35:23
since sliced bread, or Boris Johnson as the messiah, or Theresa May as
1:35:28
the new Iron Lady, and then, of course, reverse ferreted from all of those positions
1:35:32
days, weeks, or years later. They've just decided, let's have another massive liar. He's our
1:35:37
liar. Let's get him. I don't like the look of this guy. He might be a liar as well
1:35:42
Let's attack him so that he doesn't damage our liar's chances too much. Yes
1:35:46
But what if, and what you're not doing is addressing the question that I'm wrestling with
1:35:51
not in a WWE kind of way, in a very authentic and sincere kind of way
1:35:56
what if Polanski is a little bit like Claire described him and he does actually deserve the levels
1:36:04
some of the scrutiny that he's currently enjoying? Truthfully, James? Yeah. Truthfully, personally, I think all politicians are the same
1:36:14
Yeah, that's a bad. That boils my blood. I think we've lost the politicians
1:36:20
They're not the same. How can they be the same? Name two politicians who've taken five million quid in secret
1:36:24
from a Thai-based millionaire. I don't really want to say Boris Johnson's name
1:36:29
but probably Boris Johnson. Dummy-like. Yeah, obviously we have no evidence whatsoever
1:36:36
It gave him a million. Actually, do you know what, Del? He gave him a million pounds. The same plumbing billionaire gave him a million pounds
1:36:41
when he left office to set up his... I think politicians have to do what they have to do nowadays
1:36:46
But I hate you, I hate you Del I hate you Del I hate you because you used Boris Johnson as an example
1:36:54
of politicians being the same when I was talking about Nigel Farage and this is what I think
1:36:59
what they tried to do by pretending that Keir Starmer's spectacles were some sort of
1:37:04
egregious moral transgression is that they create in the mind I don't want to patronise you Del
1:37:09
they create in your mind the idea that they're all the same There's no way Keir Starmer would take five million in secret from a Thai-based cryptocurrency billionaire
1:37:17
There's just no way on earth it could happen. And they're not all the same. Jeremy Corbyn would not in a gazillion years do that So they not all the same But I think it the rhetoric more than just what they receive and what they take They think that they think that they are better than anybody else that they are above that but they not above that
1:37:37
because they're human beings, and all human beings are subject to the same influences and experiences
1:37:44
Dale, I don't hate you anymore. I kind of love you. I love you
1:37:48
And, of course, the other point being, to just tie up what Dale said
1:37:53
is that all politicians in opposition can seem very, very similar, can't they
1:37:58
And the populist one will make promises. They will all make promises they're never going to be required to keep
1:38:03
But the populist one will make them in full knowledge that they've got no intention of keeping them
1:38:07
whereas perhaps the non-populist opposition politician will make promises that they hope to keep
1:38:15
I like that. Thank you. I've got quite a weird subject for you next
1:38:19
but it is a little bit... I'm not 100% convinced that it merits an entire hour of your time and my efforts
1:38:27
So I'm going to take that under advisement and decide over the course of the news bulletin
1:38:32
whether or not we do spend an hour discussing the latest contribution to public discourse
1:38:37
of the very colourful head of Ryanair, Michael O'Leary. James O'Brien on LBC
1:38:44
I had to check that. I thought Della just tempted me into some sort of legal jeopardy
1:38:48
But yeah, Christopher Harbourn, the bloke that gave £5 million in secret to Nigel Farage for security that somehow wasn't up to the job of ensuring that he'd be able to have constituency surgeries in Clacton
1:38:58
donated £1 million to Boris Johnson to fund his private office after he resigned as Prime Minister in July 2022
1:39:06
Here's a million quid. There you go. Now, who else can have a go at delivering the sort of world that I dream of
1:39:14
Oh, Nigel, come in. Here's £5 million. and on we go. Anyway, Zach Polanski once claimed to be a spokesman
1:39:21
for the British Red Cross when he was in fact merely a fundraiser. And apparently they are two sides of the same coin
1:39:28
Not that element of the story, but others. I, where was I the other day
1:39:37
I just, I do, I find myself enduringly fascinated by this. I don't fly that often anymore
1:39:44
partly for actual environmental reasons but also because I only really do one
1:39:51
I don't go long haul anymore actually because kids have reached a certain age
1:39:57
and jet lag and all of those things I look forward to doing it again but I do love airports
1:40:04
I've always found it's also one of my favourite words liminal do you know that word
1:40:09
it's such a great word don't ask me to tell you exactly what it means but it kind of just means in between places, in between spaces
1:40:16
It's a liminal space. The airport is a liminal space that you've got
1:40:22
You don't need to be anywhere else, and yet you don't need to do anything
1:40:26
It's liminal. Some people hate airports. Some people are in a right old tizzy, in a right old panic
1:40:32
I find airports strangely soothing, and not just when the lovely lady from Ryanair at Heathrow
1:40:39
invites me into the first-class lounge, despite not being a first-class passenger
1:40:44
Then I find... Not Ryanair, sorry, Aer Lingus. Aer Lingus, Aer Lingus
1:40:48
Then I find airports even more delightful. But I have an enduring fascination
1:40:59
with the relatively normal-looking people. Let me clarify this. People who are clearly not on stag weekends
1:41:09
all right they're not all dressed as barbara windsor or or off on the football jolly um maybe
1:41:15
even a sort of gentleman's golfing weekend i i find the popularity of pubs
1:41:23
boozing at the airport utterly extraordinary and i'm not either averse to a drink or one of nature's
1:41:34
killjoys and i in fact i do you know i discovered what would go on to become my favorite tipple
1:41:40
special occasions only these days uh the vodka martini at an airport in the united states of
1:41:47
america i'd never had the guts when you brought up when you i mean even if you go to public school
1:41:51
when you grew up in kidderminster you don't walk into a bar and order a vodka martini it i mean you
1:41:58
order a to be honest with you a pint of bathoms um if you're feeling fancy you i don't know
1:42:03
maybe put a cherry in it. You do not, if you grew up in Kidderminster
1:42:08
walk up to, even if you've lived in London for two or three years, you do not walk up
1:42:12
to a bar and ask for a vodka martini shaken, not stirred. Even though you've watched a million James Bond films
1:42:18
But I was at a bar in, I think it was Washington, DC
1:42:22
and my plane had been a little bit delayed, and it was a red eye anyway, so there's no, nothing
1:42:28
quite nice to think that I might nod off when I get on the plane
1:42:32
and the chap next to me, cool as you like, just wanders up to the bar and says, can I have a vodka martini, please
1:42:37
And the barman makes him a vodka martini. It's a beautiful bit of work putting together. I can ask, isn't it? Cocktails
1:42:43
And so I just sort of tried to seem nonchalant. It's important to seem nonchalant at these moments
1:42:50
And I said, I'd have a vodka martini as well, please, my good man. And he made me a vodka martini and my life changed in that moment
1:42:56
I got good grief. How have I only just discovered this? This is incredible
1:43:01
So what I'm pointing out is I have had a drink at the airport, but that was about eight o'clock at night
1:43:07
Michael O'Leary, right, what do those words conjure up in your mind
1:43:11
Can we make a list of all the things Michael O'Leary has said, largely just to get his name in the paper
1:43:15
Was he the one who said they were going to have standing seats
1:43:19
Standing seats? Tickets for standing passengers on his aeroplanes to save a few
1:43:24
Yeah, it's cheaper flight if you stand up all the way to Magaluf. Something about toilets
1:43:28
Was he going to charge to use the toilet? Was that him as well? All right, that's two for two
1:43:33
Anything else that Michael O'Leary has said to get his name in the papers
1:43:38
We've got the standing. We've got charging for the toilets. There's been lots of other things as well
1:43:44
And he's great value. He's great value. He's one of those people who is
1:43:48
from a journalist's point of view, very, very good copy. So you have to take everything that he says
1:43:55
with a slight pinch of salt. He is normally punting his own commercial interests
1:44:02
even as he persuades journalists to run a story about the latest thing he's said, despite the fact that he is punting his own commercial interests
1:44:09
He has called upon airports to stop serving people alcohol at five or six o'clock in the morning
1:44:17
asking who needs to be drinking beer at that time. There's no traditional operating hours
1:44:24
but O'Leary thinks that they should be more in line with those of pubs. And at this point in proceedings, I think I agree with him
1:44:36
So, you walk through the airport and, I mean, depending on how early it is
1:44:43
to be honest with you, I find an 11 o'clock pint a little bit extraordinary these days
1:44:49
But a 9 o'clock pint, a 9 o'clock glass of wine. And don ring me to tell me that you only do it when you on a connecting flight and your body clock is but you get up in the morning you got a mad rush to the airport you barely had time for a coffee you get to the airport and you think
1:45:05
oh, do you know what, I really fancy a pint of Stella. Oh, I really fancy a nice Pinot Grigio, please
1:45:11
At nine o'clock in the morning. I'm going to take nine as the cut-off point, I think, or possibly ten
1:45:17
because by eleven you can have a pint round the corner, not that you ever would. You'd never get up on a Saturday
1:45:22
unless you do this all the time, and just, oh, do you know what? I really fancy a pint
1:45:27
I only do this once a year. I really fancy a pint. So you go around the corner to the pub
1:45:33
And I was having a conversation with Elliot, who's producing the show today
1:45:37
I'm not going to betray his confidences. But it did occur to me
1:45:44
that I have had children for 20 years and that possibly I can't remember
1:45:51
what I was like before I had children and that if you like that sense of the holiday getting underway nice and early
1:45:58
then what better way to loosen your inhibitions and quite possibly your tongue
1:46:03
than to have a couple of sharpeners before you get on the plane? And then, of course, because I am getting older, although you wouldn't know it
1:46:11
oh, do you know who I saw the other day? I don't know what he's doing
1:46:15
Well, I do, actually, because he's just launched a company selling supplements. Russell Kane was in for full disclosure the other day
1:46:23
He looked ten years younger than he did last time I saw him, and last time I saw him was ten years ago
1:46:28
It's extraordinary. So I might be very youthful for 54, but I'm not as youthful as some people
1:46:34
So I also find myself... So two things here that make me wonder whether I'm being a killjoy
1:46:40
One is my age, which means if I were to have a drink of alcohol anywhere before dinner time, really
1:46:47
and by dinner I mean supper or tea, not lunch, if I were to have a drink of alcohol
1:46:52
or if I have a drink at lunchtime which I might sometimes do on holiday then I'm going to fall asleep in the afternoon
1:46:57
and have a little night you know that lovely little one hour siesta that's a liminal space isn't it
1:47:01
when you're neither sort of fully asleep am I a killjoy because
1:47:07
I wouldn't do it if I'm in charge of the children or in half charge of the children
1:47:13
if Mrs O'Brien is with us and I wouldn't do it because I don't want to be really groggy and sleepy
1:47:19
when I get off the plane two or three hours later? Or is it something that we should actually be discouraging
1:47:27
This is a country where our relationship with alcohol is notoriously difficult
1:47:33
The flight routes, would you like to have a guess at which Ryanair flight routes
1:47:38
experienced the most disruptive passenger behaviour last year? In no particular order
1:47:43
I've got the top six. Glasgow, Prestwick to Palma de Mallorca Manchester to Ibiza
1:47:54
Manchester to Agadir London, Stansted to Alicante That's a bit of an outlier
1:47:59
London, Stansted to Alicante Edinburgh to Tenerife and Dublin to Ibiza It's not good reading for the Celts, this, is it
1:48:07
Well, I'm putting Manchester in as honorary Irish Manchester to Ibiza Manchester to Agadir
1:48:13
Glasgow, Prestwick to Palma de Mallorca Dublin to Ibiza with a side order of London Stansted to Alicante
1:48:20
And Michael O'Leary's point, very simply, is that it gets a little bit leery for the staff
1:48:25
Disruption, of course, affects everybody. The airline is having to divert almost one aircraft a day
1:48:30
because of bad behaviour for passengers. It's becoming more of a problem
1:48:35
And he says, I fail to understand why anybody in airports, bars is serving people at five or six o'clock in the morning
1:48:41
who needs to be drinking beer at that time, which is quite a tempting question for this phone-in
1:48:46
Who needs to be drinking beer at that time? 0345 6060 973
1:48:51
Right, stop. Okay? Rewind. Sit. Ah, James, get over yourself. It's just a bit of fun
1:48:59
I don't really do it myself, but what's the problem? Some people like to start their holiday early
1:49:03
Nothing nicer than that. Have you ever had your flight disrupted by someone who was drunk
1:49:08
Yes. Would you like to change your mind about whether or not they should be serving alcohol on planes at nine o'clock
1:49:13
at airports at nine o'clock in the morning. Ah. Yes. Perhaps I would, actually
1:49:22
And that, because it's almost as if I know what I'm doing, is the second way into this story
1:49:27
So question number one, persuade me that it's not... What's a nice word you can use that isn't too pejorative
1:49:35
Or class, class-based. Persuade me that it's not vulgar. there you go, vulgar
1:49:42
much better than the ch word persuade me that it's not vulgar
1:49:46
to have a drink at the airport unless I'm going to give you dispensations
1:49:50
you can add to the list of dispensations if you want stags, hens
1:49:54
football fans and golfers, alright, that's what I've got at the moment, you can all have a drink at the airport
1:50:00
in the morning because it's a special occasion for everybody else, no
1:50:04
no, not good at it persuade me that it's not vulgar 03456060973
1:50:10
not making light of any serious experiences that you've had but what made you realise
1:50:16
that it is actually a much more serious issue than you previously thought your sort of Michael O'Leary moment your
1:50:22
ruined flight or your disrupted holiday that must have been attributable
1:50:32
to the fact that people were getting tanked up before they even got on the plane I've never had it, never experienced it
1:50:37
And, you know, one plane a day, they say, gets disrupted as a consequence of passenger behaviour
1:50:41
It won't all be alcohol-related, and I don't know how many planes a day take off, but that's not that many, albeit that it's only one airline
1:50:47
I don't know how many Ryanair planes a day take to the skies, but almost one a day has to come straight back down again
1:50:53
Stop serving alcohol at airports before ordinary licensing hours. What's not to like
1:50:59
I was going to do a quick count. What do you think about it? Would you ever have a pint at the airport at night
1:51:04
No. Why would you do it? 0345 6060 973 Oh, I've got another dispensation as well
1:51:13
Bloody Mary's. Alright, because that's just breakfast. I'm joking. You can't have a Bloody Mary either at the airport
1:51:22
Maybe I am a killjoy. Do you want to get psychological about this
1:51:27
Why do we do it? Oh man, I've just changed my own position on this
1:51:33
by remembering Bloody Mary's. I don't think I've ever had a Bloody Mary at the airport
1:51:38
but I've certainly had Bloody Marys in circumstances that are considerably closer to breakfast
1:51:42
than they are to lunch or dinner. And that's what you have on a plane as well, isn't it
1:51:48
You get the tomato juice. I think it came up on Misty Air. It does something to your blood pressure or something
1:51:52
and it's good for... Don't write me. I can't remember. So, why do we do it
1:52:00
Is it vulgar? And therefore, should it be... Well, actually, you can't ban things just because they're vulgar
1:52:06
Why do we do it? Is it vulgar? Do you agree with Michael O'Leary
1:52:11
that airports shouldn't be able to serve alcohol when the pub round the corner isn't allowed to
1:52:16
So we'd go to normal, possibly shut a bit later, but open at the normal time
1:52:24
Or killjoy So it vulgar or killjoy really isn it this Vulgar or killjoy with a side order of psychology There you go fill your boots 0345 6060 973 is the number you need
1:52:35
Why do you want a drink at the airport? And if you're in charge of children
1:52:39
then I'm possibly capable of getting a little bit rude about this
1:52:43
James O'Brien on LBC. 20 minutes after 12 is the time. I love it when the streams cross
1:52:51
I gather from some of the messages coming into the studio that Mr Moyles was discussing this issue on Radio X earlier this morning
1:52:58
with his characteristic flair and bonhomie. We will find out, no doubt, what he had to say on the subject shortly
1:53:05
But what I want to know first is why? And I might be on a hiding to nothing here
1:53:11
Some people love it when I'm on a hiding to nothing. I am not one of them. So why do we do it and should we ban it
1:53:17
0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9. If you just tuned in, I'm not telling you what we're talking about
1:53:21
Why do we do it and should we ban it? 0345 6060973
1:53:25
and I'd like, Nick and Alan are up first, if you can Nick and Alan
1:53:29
I'd like you to try and this is going to be quite a big challenge I'd like you to try to deliver your
1:53:34
contribution without actually giving away what it is that we're talking about so you are both here, Nick, first
1:53:40
and Alan, to answer the question why do we do it and should we ban it
1:53:45
but don't give away what we're talking about for the benefit of anyone that's just tuned in
1:53:48
let's keep them in the dark, Nick's in Manchester Nick, what do you reckon? Oh, your producer said nothing about this
1:53:54
Why do we do it, Nick? Why do we do it? We do it because it's not something that a lot of people do all the time
1:54:02
It's a bit of a buzzer, an exciting time and an exciting experience
1:54:07
for whatever it is we're talking about. Therefore, they feel compelled to celebrate this
1:54:11
I feel that by banning it, those people will be compelled to go to other premises
1:54:19
I don't want to say what they are. at the particular place in which we're speaking about
1:54:23
to get their own product so they can enjoy it. Not in the bars, but..
1:54:31
Ah, yeah. I mean, in a way, that second element of your conversation
1:54:36
made your job much harder. So I'm not just going to shout, yes, but should we ban it at you
1:54:41
Because you've kind of already answered that question. But, I mean, you know, there's got to be more to the answer to why do we do it
1:54:48
There's lots of things I never do. Morris dancing, for example. I don't arrive at the airport on the first day of my holiday and say
1:54:54
oh, I never Morris dance, I'm just going to do a little bit of Morris dancing. It enhances the experience
1:55:00
Ah, does it, though? How do you know Morris dancing doesn't? I've tried Morris dancing, it certainly would
1:55:07
Everyone's doing me up like a kipper today. That's you, Adam. Two for two. Your vodka martini experience, you said, was something that you enjoyed
1:55:16
and is memorable. when you, you know... Yes, nothing to do with the subject that we're discussing
1:55:21
but it was a very nice experience at Washington Airport. Well, I don't know how well that went
1:55:27
Thank you, Nick. Great contribution. My stupid game, perhaps, was... Well, I'm going to insist that Alan plays it as well
1:55:32
Alan's in Liverpool. Why do we do it, Alan, and should we ban it? Well, the thing is, James
1:55:37
my beautiful, beloved wife and I have been together for 18 years
1:55:41
and married for 16. Congratulations. And we've never done it yet. Wow
1:55:47
Whatever. Nope. And all those years together. No. And the thing is
1:55:52
Yeah. 13 weeks and two days ago, Yeah. I had a cabbage
1:56:00
Now, you might or might not remember that. The night before my cabbage
1:56:06
I sent you a little note on blue sky saying that I'm having a cabbage tomorrow
1:56:11
which stands for cardiac... I do remember that. Yes, I do. Do you know, I thought I was pushing the boundaries of radio
1:56:19
during the course of this conversation, and I just thought you just entirely destroyed them
1:56:25
I do, and I sent you a message of goodwill, and a lot of people joined in, and it went well
1:56:30
Yeah, it all went well. It was going to be a triple, then it was up with a double. Fantastic
1:56:34
Because he didn't think the third one was worth it. Okay, that's good. So, and because of that, we've decided to actually go for it
1:56:42
and we're doing it for the first time. So, when are you off? When are you off
1:56:46
Off. 1st of August. Off 1st of August. And after 18 years together and 16 years of marriage
1:56:51
on the 1st of August, you will be doing it for the first time. Indeed. Well, I bet I know your answer to the next question, then
1:56:57
Should they ban it, Alan? No! More than once. Not until... If you do it more than once
1:57:06
Yeah. At one instance, then they should. Yeah, but who's keeping count
1:57:10
But then afterwards, you just have a nice coffee and a smoke. Not in the airport, you don't
1:57:14
Oh, congratulations on all of that. I'm well played. No, I'm well played as well
1:57:19
What time is it on the 1st of August? Do we know, roughly
1:57:24
Well, it's 5.45 in the morning, so probably anything from 3.30 onwards
1:57:29
Good grief, yeah. You're really joining, going in there, making up for lost time there
1:57:34
18 years without a sniff, and then going all in at 4 o'clock in the morning
1:57:38
on the 1st of August. And obviously, Alan, very much of the view that you shouldn't ban it
1:57:42
But possibly we should think about having a cap. 25 minutes after 12 is the time
1:57:47
Ken's in Manchester. Ken, why do we do it and should we ban it? We do it because we have very little self-control and regulation
1:57:55
Yeah, I think that's true, isn't it? Okay, there we go. The game's over
1:57:59
Ken's got it. My apologies, my apologies. I mean, my apologies. But we have very little self-control when it comes to the sort of regulation of ourselves
1:58:09
when it comes to that. And the holiday, people talk about alcohol being an inhibition loosener
1:58:14
but a holiday loosens your inhibitions as well. So you kind of, the mood is coming upon you
1:58:18
You're walking past, and who the hell has a pint at nine o'clock in the morning? Oh, hang on a minute. I do
1:58:23
I do. Now, I think it's people, especially, like you said, the inhibitions get loosened when it comes to a holiday
1:58:31
and people instantly change their behaviors because, well, I'm on holiday, But there's no harm in me having one at 9 o'clock in the morning, 6 o'clock in the morning
1:58:41
I don't necessarily agree, but I've seen the negative side of alcohol throughout my life
1:58:47
And I don't want to see, you know, it is what it is. But I was on a stag recently, and I was flying at 9 a.m., which is fine
1:58:56
And I had a coffee while my compatriots had multiple pints. and I was pressured, have a pint
1:59:07
I was like, no, 9 o'clock in the morning. I'd rather have a coffee. I'm still a bit tired
1:59:11
Yes, of course. I'll have my first pint when we get there at 1. That's fine
1:59:15
That's a nicer pint. Oh, exactly. And then the first night, people were written off by 9pm
1:59:20
where I was just getting going. So it ruins then the first sort of day
1:59:26
and unfortunately it's... I think so. I mean, because it might seem like a wonderful idea at the time
1:59:32
And if you're long haul, I suppose it's a different kettle of fish altogether, isn't it
1:59:37
But if you're not long haul, then when you get off the plane, you're probably going to regret it
1:59:42
You're going through passport control inebriated as well. You're causing grief for the airport staff
1:59:47
And then suddenly, you know, queues start developing and yeah. All sorts, yeah. But would you ban it though
1:59:53
I wouldn't. I'd regulate it. To 11 o'clock? No, I'd actually just limit the amount..
1:59:59
per boarding pass. So provide your boarding pass. You've got flantiful identification
2:00:05
when you're going through that. And then you limit them to... You don't drink and drive, do you
2:00:11
You say, one and drive, two and drive. No. We are not talking about the pilots here, mate
2:00:16
We're talking about the passengers. You can drink and passenger. Yeah, precisely
2:00:21
But you limit it to two or three drinks per boarding pass. You provide your passport and boarding pass
2:00:27
and then you can have your two, three, five. you're not going to be in a state of inebriation where you're going to cause undue behaviour
2:00:34
Do you know, we're having quite a lot, well I am anyway, I hope everyone else is having as much fun as I am
2:00:39
And we're covering, and you've made some really substantive points, there is a broad consensus that the current situation is suboptimal
2:00:46
that things could be improved. So an outright ban, perhaps not. Yeah, it's too far and too authoritarian when it comes to it
2:00:54
People still need to have the right to choose what to drink can do as they please. However, there needs to be some form of regulation to then stop
2:01:03
people being... You would think so, wouldn't you? Yeah, it would make sense, given especially that it's so traceable with the amount of
2:01:10
identification and things that you have in those areas. Yeah, and I don't think we file it under the, you know, why are you punishing people who've
2:01:16
not done anything wrong for the transgressions of people who have. Because if you can have a couple of pints, then someone who can have five pints and not
2:01:22
cause any bother isn't going to feel unduly discriminated against, I don't think. No
2:01:27
I hope not. No, precisely. Nice one, Ken. Stay safe. Oh, of course. No, take care
2:01:31
And don't worry about spoiling the game for everybody else. It could have happened to anybody
2:01:35
Dariush, for one, will be delighted that you did because he texted me just before you came on and wrote
2:01:39
James, I'm begging you, what are you talking about? Well, we're just asking, why do we do it, Dariush
2:01:44
And should it be banned? 0345 6060973. Apparently Moyles pointed out this morning somewhere else in this building
2:01:52
that they do actually sell alcohol on Ryanair planes at that time of the morning
2:01:56
so if they banned all the drinking at the airport, it means he'd probably sell more on his planes
2:02:00
And that is what I would call the law of Michael O'Leary. I said to you half an hour ago
2:02:04
there's almost certainly an element of self-promotion involved in this story. I can't currently see what it is, but there is Chris Moyles
2:02:09
First of the story, as always. Amelia Cox is here now with your headlines
2:02:14
James O'Brien on LBC. Absolutely nobody disputing my statement that if you grew up in Kiddermin Street
2:02:20
you wouldn't really know how to order a vodka martini. But Chris, who's in Oxford currently
2:02:26
has some understanding of why. In the 1980s, James, I was living in London
2:02:31
and part of the cocktail bar scene. My soon-to-be father-in-law took me to a pub in Redditch
2:02:36
where I asked for a dry white wine. And it was like the world stopped
2:02:40
as my future father-in-law turned to me and said, you'll have a bloody pint like a proper man
2:02:45
I hope the marriage survived. I really do. But I know, I mean, Redditch is just up the road from Kiddermitra
2:02:52
It's not going to be confined to the West Midlands, this. But when and how did you discover..
2:02:57
You wouldn't order it in a pub anyway. In fact, there's very few places you can order a vodka martini with confidence
2:03:01
But American airports serve some of the finest cocktails in the world
2:03:06
So how have I ended up arguing that Michael O'Leary is right and airports should be prevented from serving alcohol
2:03:13
Answer, well, until opening time, until normal opening time. And actually, would you permit a brief digression before I go to Sarah and then Taff
2:03:23
I haven't been home for a while, just for about five weeks or something
2:03:27
I think I'll probably head up this weekend, all being well. But from what I can tell on Facebook
2:03:35
Kidderminster, and you will correct me if I'm wrong, is undergoing a magnificent resurgence at the moment
2:03:44
Not least as a music destination, a music venue, So they've redone the town hall
2:03:49
This is a bit niche. I fully appreciate it. If you're listening to this in Ulaanbaatar
2:03:53
or indeed in Glasgow, it's not going to necessarily be buttering your parsnips
2:03:58
But I am toying with the idea of dipping a toe into questions of
2:04:03
opidian regeneration, which is like urban regeneration, but for towns instead of cities
2:04:09
I may have just invented that word, but I don't think I did. Opidian regeneration
2:04:14
using Kidderminster as an example. Because from what I can tell, not only has the reopening of Kid and Mr. Town Hall
2:04:21
seen all manner of quality acts booked to appear there, including, I think, Susie Dent is there this weekend
2:04:27
and Hal Cruttenden, another previous guest on Full Disclosure, is there before the end of the month
2:04:32
and they've got all sorts of musos playing. The magnificent Mike Sanchez is pretty sure he's on the bill this summer
2:04:39
formerly of the Big Town Playboys, one of the finest live acts you could ever hope to see in the world
2:04:44
You may have seen him supporting Eric Clapton at the Albert Hall and stuff like that. But Mike is Kidderminster born and bred
2:04:50
He'll be there. And there's another couple of venues. There's one that I've opened
2:04:54
I think there's one called The Church that I haven't been to yet. And a couple of pubs that are getting quite big acts in
2:04:59
So either something a bit special is happening in Kidderminster at the moment
2:05:05
Or it's always been like that but no one ever invited me anywhere. I don't know which one it is
2:05:11
But I'm leaning towards the former as opposed to the latter. So I shall report back, if you can bear the tension and suspense
2:05:17
I will report back on Monday on the question of whether or not Kiliminster, who will be playing in the play-off finals on Saturday
2:05:24
but it's up in South Shields and I don't think I can get a ticket. And I went to Southport last season for the final game of the season
2:05:30
which turned out not to be the final game of the season because we fluffed our championship lead at the final hurdle
2:05:37
So not only are Kiliminster Harriers in the play-off finals for the second year in succession
2:05:42
but I think the entire town is undergoing something of a resurgence
2:05:47
but I obviously don't like to deal in anecdotes on this programme and we'll report back with evidence on Monday
2:05:53
12.36 is the time. One thing you wouldn't do if you were catching the train to Kidderminster
2:05:57
on Saturday morning is have a pint at 9 o'clock at the train station
2:06:01
A, because you're not allowed to and B, because we don't do that sort of thing, do we? So why do we do it at airports
2:06:07
Sarah's in Froome. Sarah, what would you like to say? I love the name Kidder Minster by the way. It's like a made-up name for a comedy novel
2:06:15
It's beautiful. Do you know, there is something in that, you know. I can't quite remember what it is, but
2:06:20
there is something. Someone has made that point. Anyway, carry on. It's not. It's a
2:06:24
proper town full of proper people It a lovely name Go on then Anyway you alerted me earlier when I was making my toast You said you talked about transition
2:06:36
Yes. And that airports, you're at liminal. Liminal. Liminal spaces. Lovely word, isn't it
2:06:44
And I did a long study in folklore. I've got an MA in folklore
2:06:49
Oh, yeah. And liminal places are magical places. and all over Europe
2:06:55
there are horseshoes over doors and in other countries they've also got magical amulets
2:07:00
because on the threshold you are neither here nor there. You're neither in nor out
2:07:06
and there is an instinctive feeling that other forces come into play
2:07:10
So I feel it's very natural to have a Prosecco at 10 o'clock
2:07:14
in the morning in an airport because I'm in that place where nothing applies
2:07:18
Nothing normal applies. And it's traditional to human nature. Gosh. And so you're almost tempted into it by the liminality of the environment
2:07:28
Yes, because all the rules have gone instinctively, and that's why we have magic amulets against thresholds
2:07:34
Have you ever been removed from a flight, Sarah? No, I do behave myself
2:07:40
Do you know what I was just doing? I was just trying to find the cultural reference
2:07:44
Someone has used the word kiddo minister for precisely the reason that you identified in a novel or in a comedy type
2:07:51
and I was just trying to find it. Do you know what I found instead? No
2:07:55
So I've got prominent people from Kidderminster. Do you want to hear it? Go on
2:07:59
Robert Plant, the Led Zeppelin lead singer, grew up in Kidderminster and has maintained close ties to the town
2:08:04
including support for Kidderminster College's music programmes. He's a legend of the region
2:08:09
Sir Roland Hill, born in Kidderminster, he revolutionised communication by introducing the uniform Penny Post
2:08:14
and the Penny Black postage stamp. Wait for it. James O'Brien, the well-known LBC radio talk show host and broadcaster
2:08:21
was raised in Kidderminster. Look what you've done for your town. Well, no
2:08:25
That's outrageous. Sarah, thank you. That's lovely stuff, that. So the airport as the liminal space
2:08:30
having a sort of folklorian context, makes sense, actually. I'm not here and I'm not there
2:08:36
so I'll have a drink. Thank you very much. Even though I wouldn't have a drink if I was there and I'm not going to have a drink if I was here
2:08:41
Opidun, I think, rather than opidian would probably be the word that I either invented
2:08:45
or was looking for. The fact that you suggested it's opidan and not opidian
2:08:49
suggests that I didn't invent it after all. Sarah, what a lovely call. Martin's in Glasgow. Martin, what do you reckon
2:08:54
Why do we do it and should it be banned? Hi, James. Hello, Martin. Yeah, I was kind of agreeing with the previous callers
2:08:59
It is this thing about you're going on holiday and you want to relax
2:09:04
Going to the airport is quite a stressful experience. Once you get there and you breathe out
2:09:10
you're right, actually. And for some people, you know, it isn't alcohol
2:09:14
It may be, as someone said, that having that cup of coffee, you start to imagine it in your head
2:09:18
that you can smell the coffee, you can smell the pint of beer. you think, listen me, I've
2:09:23
waited all this time to go on holiday or where I'm going and I just want
2:09:27
to relax and I was just saying there, I always think these blanket bans don't work
2:09:33
and can sometimes have the opposite effect so as you can tell I'm obviously
2:09:37
from Scotland and we have this blanket ban on alcohol at football
2:09:41
and so do we oh no, you can have it in the ground
2:09:45
English ground, can you not have it in the ground in Scottish not at all, no, if you're in hospitality
2:09:49
boxes of course you can but everyday punter. One rule for them, eh
2:09:54
And one rule for us. Exactly. What I've found in my experience is
2:09:59
you've got this thing in your head, I can't have a drink for four hours. Some people go and have
2:10:03
six pints and go into the ground and are actually more of an issue. Instead, if you could just have two pints, enjoy yourself
2:10:09
relax, go, I'm going to have six pints because I'm not going to have a drink for four hours
2:10:14
And that could end up being a problem with this. People drink on the bus
2:10:17
to the airport or in the car or go to another bar before they go to the airport
2:10:21
I get it. I can see it. And therefore, it would actually
2:10:25
be one of those examples of people who've done nothing wrong being punished for the behaviour of people
2:10:29
who have done something wrong if you banned everyone from the pleasant experiences that you're describing
2:10:33
because of some unpleasant experiences caused by people who'd had too much
2:10:37
and couldn't control themselves. Exactly. I think the most sensible way is
2:10:41
to be harder on the people that do go too far if it becomes flying
2:10:47
I quite like the idea of having a limit, because you have to show a boarding pass to buy anything at the airport
2:10:51
so why not to buy alcohol? And the computer would immediately tell you, this fella's already had
2:10:55
four pints of heavy, so he can sling his hook. I know, and I agree with what you said
2:10:59
Some people maybe drink a bit more, but they're not going to feel disadvantaged
2:11:05
from having two pints instead of five pints. I wouldn't have thought so
2:11:08
Yeah, so, I mean, Michael O'Leary probably, as identified by Chris Moyles
2:11:13
on Radio X earlier this morning, Michael O'Leary probably trying to drum up a little bit more custom
2:11:20
for the in-flight sales undertaken by Ryanair at certain times of day
2:11:24
Can you have a drink on a plane at any time of day? I think you can, can't you
2:11:28
They push it round, they take the trolley round. See, in my experience, which is admittedly limited
2:11:34
and I haven't been paying that much attention even when I'm on a plane, people don't seem to partake of the drinks trolley
2:11:40
as liberally as they did when I was a younger man. It used to be part of the sophisticated pleasure of flying
2:11:45
I sort of think of Leonard Rossiter in Campari adverts. But I don't know, I could be wrong
2:11:50
But yes, I mean, it would not be surprising, would it, if Michael O'Leary had managed to gull various journalists
2:11:55
into promoting his latest money-making wheat. And obviously, when I say journalist, I use the word quite loosely
2:12:01
because I am including myself in that category. 12.42 is the time
2:12:06
I think, and this is open to contributions, looking for the appearance of Kidderminster in popular culture
2:12:15
that I'm thinking of, Amanda Thinks She Knows in Wickford, remember kidderminster was a phrase
2:12:20
that Martin would use in ever-decreasing circles whenever he wanted an early night
2:12:26
as in, you know, some shenanigans. Was it Martin and... Was Martin the one in the matching coat
2:12:33
What was his wife called? That could be it, remember kidderminster. That's one example of kidderminster appearing in popular culture
2:12:40
but I don't think it's the one I'm looking for. I think the one I'm looking for had an element of wordplay
2:12:46
It was like we said a moment ago, as if the word had been invented
2:12:51
as if it was invented. Taff in Cardiff Taff what do you reckon Oh good afternoon James Lovely to speak to you Why do we do it Taff and should it be banned Well I call it because you mentioned never having had a Bloody Mary in the airport
2:13:09
And it's the only time I ever drink a Bloody Mary is before I fly, with the odd exception
2:13:14
But I have no idea why I've been doing it for years. But I think the reason we do it, and a lot of my friends do it as well
2:13:21
is that the minute you walk through the airport, the holiday begins
2:13:27
Yes. And it tastes different. It tastes different when you know you're going on holiday
2:13:33
That might be why you only have a Bloody Mary when you're at the airport. You never fancy one with your Sunday lunch
2:13:39
or before sitting down for dinner. Yeah, that's true. The only other time I drink it, and I tip you
2:13:44
if ever you're abroad in a country that sells the stuff called Clamato or Clebato..
2:13:49
Oh, that's delicious. Oh, it makes the best Bloody Mary on the planet
2:13:53
No, no, it's absolutely delicious. It's got some sort of seafood in it, hasn't it? It's clam broth, if I remember right
2:13:59
It sounds disgusting. I think it was... Yeah, no, it is. No, you're right
2:14:03
It is absolutely gorgeous. I think it might have been in Bottom, Taff
2:14:08
Oh, I don't know. Not the Clamato, the reference to Kidder Minster. Oh
2:14:13
James has been in touch to say Richie and Eddie referred to the toilet in Bottom as Kidder Minster
2:14:18
Are you going to Kidder Minster? and they were talking about the toilet. That rings a bell
2:14:21
I seem to remember that. I love Boston. It's a superb program. It is a superb program
2:14:26
There's a bench you can visit in Hammersmith, commemorating where they used to sit, I think
2:14:31
I'm just offering up tourist guides to the whole country at the moment, Kidderminster, Hammersmith, all the classic resorts
2:14:37
all the classic holiday destinations for the urbane Englishmen, and feel free to have a Bloody Mary before you visit as well
2:14:43
or even while you visit. but don't order a vodka martini at anywhere that is less than four star, I would suggest
2:14:51
12.45 is the time. You're absolutely right about bottom. I think I'd managed to block that out of my memory
2:14:57
And the number of people who've got in touch, to correct me
2:15:01
when I said that Leonard Rossiter was advertising Campari, when in fact he was advertising Cinzano, is a mark of something
2:15:08
But I don't know what. I don't know whether it's a mark of you not caring enough
2:15:12
about all the very important and big mistakes that I regularly make on the programme
2:15:16
but care it all that you are just, like me, somewhat obsessed with Leonard Rossiter
2:15:20
But my apologies and my gratitude to everybody who has... No, Lorraine Chase was Campari at Luton Airport
2:15:26
but that wasn't Leonard Rossiter. This is very niche, even more niche
2:15:31
than the current coming attractions at Kidderminster Town Hall. James O'Brien on LBC
2:15:38
148 is the time. So, look, if you do care about such things, Leonard Rossiter did the Cinzano adverts with Joan Collins, I think
2:15:45
And Lorraine Chase did the Campari adverts featuring the immortal line near Luton Airport
2:15:51
with an actor called Jeremy Clyde. And as if I haven't given you enough fascinating nuggets of knowledge on the programme today
2:16:00
the actor Jeremy Clyde, who I think is still with us, is the great, great, great grandson of the first Duke of Wellington
2:16:08
I don't know what you're going to do with that knowledge, but I'm fairly confident you did not have it four seconds ago
2:16:14
Howard is in... I never know quite how to pronounce it, Howard. And remember, this is a family programme, so you go first
2:16:21
It's Phuket. Phuket in Thailand. Thank you very much. Are you going to give me £5 million
2:16:29
Certainly not, but I will answer a question that you've been asking. Why do we do it? Why do we do it, Howard? And should it be banned
2:16:36
I think we do. I think there's a couple of interesting bits here. I think you have the Christmas Day effect
2:16:41
Do you have a drink on Christmas morning? A lot of people have a champagne and they'll put a bit of orange juice in it
2:16:46
and then they'll say, well, let's have a Bucks Fizz, 9 o'clock, doesn't matter, it's Christmas Day, breakfast are champions
2:16:52
Yeah, you're right. And everyone has that Christmas Day feeling. And the other thing you have to sort of get your head around
2:16:58
and I spend a lot of time in airports, is that once you're in departures, you're in a timeless zone
2:17:03
You've left the time zone that you're in, so there is no 11 o'clock. 11 o'clock's gone when you went through passport control
2:17:09
I mean that is literally true in some cases because people's bodies will be in different time zones
2:17:14
to where the brain is but that's what's emerged during the course
2:17:20
so whether you want to, what did you call it? I called it a liminal space, what did you call it? A timeless area
2:17:25
A timeless space, yeah It is timeless, isn't it? And then we've got the sort of
2:17:30
the threshold thing with the folklore element of it when you're on a threshold
2:17:35
you're neither in nor out it's a sort of hokey-cokey effect. You're not in, you're not out, and you're not shaking it
2:17:42
so you might as well shake it all about, and that is when you head over to the bar
2:17:47
And we don't think that the misbehaviour of the miscreants is enough to curtail the freedoms of everybody else
2:17:53
I think it's very geo-sensitive. I mean, one thing I do notice is in Asia, no-one's drinking before they get on a plane
2:17:58
but generally in certainly the UK and other parts in Europe, that's definitely an area of the world
2:18:04
where people love to get stuck into a pint of export just before they jump on a plane
2:18:08
Or a Bloody Mary or a glass of tri-white wine. Or a Bloody Mary, indeed. It is, no
2:18:12
And so no one would... Yeah, and then the Brits coming back to Britain from Bangkok
2:18:18
would also, or from Phuket, would also probably be more likely to have a drink than anybody else
2:18:23
The Germans are pretty good at this. This is true. I think
2:18:27
But it's probably a Northern European thing more than anything else. I should say so, for sure
2:18:33
But the other thing you've also got is the fact that some people self-medicate their anxiety
2:18:38
Flying, fear of flying. For good or for ill, it's the only thing that can get them on the plane
2:18:42
I used to be that guy. Yeah, I'd have a drink before I got on the plane because I had a fear of flying, but I've now flown so much
2:18:47
that it tastes like anything. The more you do something, the less scared you are of it
2:18:50
It just takes the edge off, I suppose. Are you on holiday in Phuket at the moment
2:18:55
I don't want to pry, but I just... No, no, I'm a yacht dealer over here
2:18:58
Oh, wow. How's business? It's good. Sunny's out. Yeah? Good. That's a pretty cool existence
2:19:06
I bet you know how to order a vodka martini, don't you? We certainly do
2:19:10
That's a yacht. And enjoy you on the drive time over here, because that's your time slot
2:19:14
Oh, that's lovely. I shall think of you. That's a glorious idea
2:19:19
Listening to LBC while flogging yachts and having a vodka martini in Phuket
2:19:25
Lovely stuff Thank you Howard It is 12 You are listening to James O on LBC I had an absolute nightmare I don think anyone agreed with me I just So I am not a killjoy I just very much
2:19:37
feeling the impact of having had children for 20 years. We haven't really touched on that element of it
2:19:43
I don't think I'd have a pint if the children were there. And also, the fact that
2:19:49
I kind of... I don't know, really, what the other explanation would be
2:19:55
and Craig has finished the job. He's put the final nail in the coffin of my argument, I think
2:20:00
Why would you exempt stag and hem parties and football fans from not drinking at airports, James
2:20:06
I'd wager that they're going to be the ones that cause the majority of the problems
2:20:10
I mean, I can't remember the last time a subject fell apart this comprehensively despite me being fairly confident that I had all my ducks
2:20:16
in a row. Pete's in Hove. Pete, what made you pick up the phone? First time caller
2:20:20
You've picked your moment. You kept me sane through Covid, first time I discovered you. Thank you very much
2:20:26
What a lovely thing to say. Obviously, we have no way of knowing whether or not you did, in fact, stay sane during COVID
2:20:32
Yeah, I did. I did. Well, I'll have to take your word for that, Pete, in the absence of any corroborating evidence. Carry on
2:20:38
Yes, me and my partner, we go on holiday quite a lot, and we have to have a drink, or I don't have to have a drink
2:20:43
We like a nice glass of champagne before we head off. Oh, very nice. I'm a nervous flyer
2:20:49
I've probably met my partner of five years. Very, very few times I go on holiday
2:20:53
and my partner, Kelly, is a mad holiday freak. So I've got to go with it or stay at home
2:20:59
Life is good. Life is good. It is good, yeah. Self-employed electrician
2:21:03
He works very hard for the civil service. You earn your holidays
2:21:07
Do you go to those fancy, like, seafood and champagne bits? We go up the sit-up bar, yeah, the champagne one
2:21:14
and the first time we went, it was a celebration. It was our first holiday, so I decided to have a bottle of champagne
2:21:19
and the plane went well, no issues. You're going to say the plane went without us then
2:21:24
No, no, no, no. It's become a habit. It's a good luck charm
2:21:28
I like the way this is inflation, this is. When you came on the show, it was a glass
2:21:31
And by the time I said goodbye to you, it was a bottle. If you stayed there for 10 minutes, you'd have probably done a case
2:21:36
Yes. And we're going to the villa on Sunday. I pick up at quarter past three
2:21:40
So we'll be at the airport at Gatwick about quarter past four. Right. And we will be indulging in our first bottle of champagne
2:21:46
You guys straight in. Straight whole bottle. First, early doors. We pace ourselves, because it does get a bit heady
2:21:52
drinking that early in the morning, but we're very sensible. We just pace ourselves, make that bottle last
2:21:58
Do you drink it out of a glass, or do you pour it on your Weetabix? No. No breakfast
2:22:02
I don't eat before a flight. I just have a little nice one or two glasses of champagne. And then do you have a little snooze when you're in the air
2:22:08
or do you stay alert? Do you stay more or less on the book? I'm listening to the engine, looking out the windows
2:22:13
looking at everybody, making sure everything's OK. I like it. I don't think I've had a single syllable of support this hour
2:22:19
I mean, that's almost unheard of these days. Keith agrees with me, but he doesn't count
2:22:24
And since I've been with Kelly, we've arrived three or four times a year, but we're very lucky. I don't think yet on any of our flights we've come across anyone
2:22:30
that has been suitably inebriated and causing trouble on flights, going or coming back
2:22:35
Right, you probably need to watch Kelly. Yes. She's got half a bottle of champagne sloshing around inside her
2:22:41
She sleeps. Once she's got that inside her. Ah, life is good
2:22:46
Coming up 12.56. Everyone's got a better life than me at the moment. Hanging out in Phuket, going on six holidays a year
2:22:52
I don't know why I bother. Howard's in Southport, which is, oddly enough
2:22:56
where I was more or less this time last year, watching Kiddermist the Harries be cruelly deprived
2:23:00
of their richly deserved National League North Championship at the final hurdle before fluffing the playoffs
2:23:06
and being consigned to another year in the lower division that they will hopefully be breaking out of on Saturday
2:23:11
What made you pick up the phone, Howard? Well, James, I'm afraid I am the final nail in your coffin on this subject
2:23:18
It's all over. That's it, I'm going home. Yeah, I'm afraid so. My wife noticed that if she insisted that I had a pint
2:23:29
before we took one of the long-haul flights, that my behaviour was much more calmer
2:23:37
Well, what were you like if you didn't have one? Let's just say there was a couple of frackouts
2:23:45
Well, I thought you were just going to say you got nervous, but you got a bit fighty
2:23:49
I would describe it as agitated. Oh, OK. But with people or just generally
2:23:56
With people. And this is because you're a nervous flyer, so you're on edge
2:24:01
Not at all. Oh, you just like fighting? No, I just... You've got me confused now, Howard. You sound like such a sort of gentle man
2:24:09
Well, I am, and I've got three children to cater. But why would airports? I mean, are you agitated in other contexts
2:24:17
Is your wife constantly urging you to have a pint? I'm just off the charts. Make sure you have a pint before you go
2:24:22
No, I'm not a drinker, James. Oh. But something about airports brings out the agitation in you
2:24:28
No, I think a 16-hour flight halfway around the world having to cater for three children
2:24:32
Oh, I see. Oh, OK. So we're not talking in code. You just get a bit touchy
2:24:37
whereas everything washes over you a bit more when you've had a pint. Well, she noticed, yes, that if she insisted that we went to a bar
2:24:45
had a pint. sometimes I fall English. Yes. I took everything in my stride
2:24:50
I like it. And there it is. First phone we've done in quite a while where everyone has disagreed with me
2:24:54
and not a single syllable of support. Concluding with Oxford Dan, who writes, I think, rather cleverly
2:25:00
James began the hour saying, take everything Michael O'Leary says with a pinch of salt
2:25:05
He says the only problem with that is that he charged you a tenner for the salt. You're not wrong
2:25:09
Bada bing, bada boom. He's here all week. Try the veal. Before you do that
2:25:14
can I ask you what your question was? No. I'll go on. No, you'll have to listen back on
2:25:18
I have views on alcohol in airports. Go on. Why do we do it and should it be banned
2:25:22
No, you shouldn't ban it. I just never do it, but you shouldn't be banned. Why do we do it? No idea
2:25:27
A bunch of drunks. It's another hour of radio that's just been wasted
2:25:32
If you missed any of today's show, you can listen back on our free Global Player app
2:25:36
or the LBC app, where you can also stay up to date with the latest news, videos and opinions. Listen to a range of podcasts
2:25:41
including James O'Brien Daily and Full Disclosure, and download the official LBC app for free from your app store
2:25:46
Now, coming up at four on LBC, it's Tom Sawbert, but now it's Sheila Fogarty
2:25:50
Sober as a judge. Sheila Soberty. Sheila Soberty, I like that. Hey! It'll be a long time before anybody calls me that
2:25:56
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