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James O’Brien examines whether the UK can still rely on the United States as a trusted ally. From decades of shared history to growing uncertainty under Donald Trump, he asks: has the “special relationship” fundamentally changed? Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #donaldtrump #LBC #trump #news #uspolitics #usnews #debate LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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United States of America. The United States of America. America. I used to say America until I think a Venezuelan lady at one of my book signings asked me to stop saying that because it is a little bit, well it's inaccurate isn't it? It's a continent not just a country. The United States of America. What do those words do to you when you hear them? What did they used to do
0:28
I remember the first time a friend of mine went to the States, and it wasn't the best present I've ever received
0:33
but it was quite thoughtful. He brought me some condiments back from all of the fast food joints that he visited
0:39
because this was before I'd ever seen a McDonald's in the flesh. I forget what year McDonald's in Kiddermister opened
0:45
but my friend Timothy went to the United States of America before McDonald's opened in Kiddermister
0:50
It was like some sort of mythical golden arches, literally. And he brought me back a bag
0:57
They brought me catsups. It was called catsup. It seemed so glamorous
1:02
Beef burgers, hamburgers. It seemed so glamorous, the United States of America
1:07
I'm not joking now. Cultural reference points. First things you thought of. First things that said the United States of America to you
1:14
Again, I'd have to check the dates, but the Dix of Hazzard would be quite high up on my list
1:19
It's the two modern-day Robin Hood, Bo and Luke Duke, and, of course, the inimitable Daisy
1:23
it was always a warm feeling right and then you learned a little more
1:31
as you grew older about the role albeit somewhat belatedly that the United States
1:35
played in both world wars most crucially of course post Pearl Harbor in the second
1:39
and the argument despite the deification almost of Winston Churchill that without the intervention
1:46
of the United States of America it's unlikely that the Nazis would have been defeated
1:50
and you come away with an even warmer feeling. We know a little bit about Nixon or Vietnam
1:59
I mean, it's not a perfect country. The friendship, the relationship, the warmth between Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher
2:06
for good or for ill was very real, although it didn't extend to helping us out
2:11
in the Falkland Islands, of course. And then Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, George Bush
2:18
George W. Bush, You sort of run through the US presidents and everything was, if not hunky-dory, then relatively amicable
2:28
Barack Obama, Joe Biden. And then you come to today. And the extraordinary..
2:37
I mention that because I just want you to get a pin
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You know, if you're dropping a pin on a map, I want you to drop a pin on your personal calendar
2:46
Any pin at any point in your life, how did you feel as a Brit
2:50
or as a resident of these islands, how did you feel about the United States of America
3:00
And I am going to say to you, it was positive. It was a positive feeling
3:05
Even I think the Iraq War, opposition to it was enough to excuse the regimes on both sides of the land
3:14
Not excuse, that's the wrong word. But detach, you could despise that intervention
3:20
although it's 2020 hindsight that really revealed how ridiculous it was, without feeling anything negative towards the entire country
3:28
or towards the future relationship. To the future relationship between our country and theirs
3:36
I suspect, and I don't know this for sure, I suspect that the special relationship
3:42
always looks a little bit more special from this side of the Atlantic than it does from the other side of the Atlantic
3:47
It's a unique relationship. They're celebrating their 250th anniversary of independence from us this year
3:55
not from anybody else. I mean if history had played out slightly differently it would have been the Dutch that had the upper hand in colonial America But we managed to snatch that prize and then lost it subsequently
4:10
So there is a unique historical relationship, and there is the commonality of language, of course
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I think it was Oscar Wilde who said that it's two peoples divided by a common language
4:23
because American English and English English do have slightly different interpretations in many ways
4:33
But you think quite warmly, right, about the United States of America until now
4:39
Until now, because Donald Trump's depravity is just his base awfulness, is such that he has managed to pollute that future
4:49
where you just presume, like night follows day, that the United States of America is our friend and our ally
5:00
and, crucially, it will usually be at our side when push comes to shove
5:09
Usually, not always, not at Suez, not in the Falklands. And it's not true anymore
5:16
not least because it would be a reciprocal relationship which would mean us getting involved in Donald Trump's next mad expedition
5:23
just as Keir Starmer was categorically and completely right not to get involved in this one
5:29
And that's why I think that George Robertson's comments are much more interesting than his comments last week
5:37
which are essentially a bloke who works in the military industrial complex
5:42
saying can we please have more money for the military industrial complex. Now, look, stop clocks and all of that, of course
5:48
It looks like a period in British history where we really should be looking to our guns
5:53
But you will never find a senior soldier or anybody attached to the military industrial complex
5:59
or anybody attached to the Ministry of Defence. You will never find a senior character from those worlds who doesn't say we need more money for defence
6:07
So it doesn't mean it's not true. It just means it's a little bit dog bites man, right
6:13
and I think if he hadn't added let's take it from the welfare
6:17
budget then it probably wouldn't have got the it wouldn't have seen the bearing of the
6:24
tabloid fangs last week it was the fact, A, it offered an opportunity
6:27
to attack Keir Starmer by ignoring the fact that George Robertson was talking about successive
6:31
British governments and B, it offered an opportunity to do what is now
6:37
fast replacing racism as the favourite hobby of the right, attacking people in receipt of
6:44
support, state support for a variety. Take it off the welfare. Take it off all those people pretending to be
6:50
sick. Take it off the shirkers. Don't ask any questions. Don't do too much research
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I definitely know they're all swinging the lead because my wife's, sisters
6:58
husbands, brothers, window cleaners, cats, original owner, lives in Lanzarote on Universal
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Credit. So that gets it propelled onto the front pages as well
7:09
but this has got to be more interesting, right? A former defence minister, a former NATO secretary general
7:17
saying that Britain's military dependence on the US is no longer tenable
7:27
No longer tenable. He points not just to Iran and the hideous, unprovoked attack there
7:33
but also to tariffs, the levying of tariffs on traditional allies and most jarringly of all
7:41
for him the threat to wrest Greenland from Denmark God the madness moves so quickly doesn't it
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had you forgotten about that you've forgotten the President of the United States
7:54
of America publicly stating his intention to steal a sovereign NATO territory no so the United States is not our friend Donald Trump has turned the entire country almost into an enemy of what we stand for
8:15
He has torn up the historic concord, the historic warmth. I mean, not quite 250 years, because I imagine relations are a little bit frosty
8:26
in the immediate afterpath of the War of Independence. But certainly in the context of our lifetimes
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or in the context of the 20th and 21st centuries, it was one of life's certainties, you know
8:39
Wasn't it? In the context even of relatively modern politics, you could have a few things that you could say with complete certainty
8:49
Your football team will let you down. Nigel Farage will lie. and the United States of America is our friend
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And it's not anymore. We've talked about American politics a hell of a lot on this programme
9:04
and we will, I think, continue to do so. A, because it's fascinating, B, because it's important
9:09
and C, because, you know, it is my show and I find it absolutely riveting
9:15
for a whole heap of reasons, some of them historic. But sometimes the really big stuff
9:23
can get swallowed up by the little stuff. That's what the cliché means, isn't it
9:27
when you can't see the wood for the trees. Quite often with clichés we use them
9:31
without ever stopping to think what they really mean. I love that. I mean, you know, a rolling stone gathers no moss
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What does that mean? It means you're zipping around so fast that you're not actually picking anything up
9:41
You're not actually making any meaningful observations or you're not learning anything
9:45
because you're in such a bloody hurry. You can't see the wood for the trees. What does that mean, you can't see the wood for the trees
9:51
It means you're focusing on the trees. So you're talking about raccoon's penises and Pulp Fiction quotes
9:57
instead of talking about the fact that the relationship with the United States of America is over
10:07
And I can't quite see it being restored to where it was five years ago
10:15
regardless of what happens next. Because if you're building military policy, an entirely new dimension has been introduced to your thinking
10:28
If you were building military policy in the 1980s or in the 1990s or in the noughties
10:33
in the 1950s or the 1960s or the 1970s of all the pieces on the table that you have to assemble into a domestic defence policy
10:45
there's two pieces that have gone in the last ten years that 20 years ago no one would have thought possible
10:54
They wouldn't even have known they were pieces. You've got the allyship of the United States
11:00
and you've got the membership of the European Union. And in the last 10 years, two things that would
11:06
if you like sporting ogies, they'd have been first on the team sheet. The things that were absolute stone-cold certainties
11:12
They were so baked in to any interpretation of UK defence policy
11:20
that you probably wouldn't even have put them on the list of things that need to be taken into consideration
11:24
because they were so absolutely part of the furniture, right? The United States is our ally
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We can rely upon the United States militarily. We are, if you prefer, dependent upon
11:36
the United States of America militarily. And we are in the European Union and NATO
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And NATO is a big deal. All of these things have gone. We're not in the European Union anymore
11:46
NATO is increasingly under threat from Donald Trump's depravity and the United States of America is no longer our friend
11:56
It is, in many ways, our enemy. And that goes beyond personality and beyond current incumbents and beyond even modern politics It is an extraordinary rewriting of what has been
12:10
for the best part of 100 years, the natural order in transatlantic relationships
12:17
So when a former head of NATO says that Britain's high military dependence on the US
12:25
is no longer tenable and that we have to become increasingly independent of Washington
12:33
A former NATO chief, a former British defence minister, saying we have to become more independent of the United States
12:43
and we have to become less dependent on them. That's the same thing, isn't it
12:50
I just said it twice in slightly different ways. And here's the really mad bit, right
12:54
hold that thought in your mind that warm feeling you get when you think of the A-Team
13:01
or McDonald's or whatever it was when you were a kid that made America seem glamorous
13:06
and new and exciting and our friend hold that thought in your head
13:13
and now hold this question what does this mean? what does this mean
13:21
what on earth does it mean? I don't know how much time you spend in Suffolk or Norfolk
13:26
but you've got air bases down there that are essentially American soil. You know
13:32
What's the thing you can only buy in the States, like a Tim Tam for Australia? What's the thing you can only buy in the States that you can't buy in Britain
13:39
There are a few things on that list. Have we got any Wendy's anymore? You've probably got a Wendy's
13:43
Kool-Aid? Does anyone get Kool-Aid in this country? Dr. Peppers I think you can buy now
13:47
although why anybody would want to is beyond me. But you've probably got branches of Wendy's at Mildenhall
13:53
or certainly they're like outposts, in the same way that British military bases will be selling Marmite and Heinz baked beans
14:00
I mean, they are so baked, they are nuclear deterrent. And this is the embarrassing bit, right
14:07
Well, it's not embarrassing. We haven't got a clue what this means, have we
14:13
We don't know what this means. Well, I'm hoping you do, otherwise it's going to be the longest monologue in history
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But I don't know what this is. I start thinking about Mildenhall or Lakenheath
14:25
I start thinking about Trident. I start thinking about this, that or the other
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and I think, oh, flipping out, that's a bit scary. You can buy root beer in Morrison's Ian
14:34
That's not unique to the United States of America although I grant you probably not McDonald's root beer
14:39
Used to be a thing here. When Kiddermist and McDonald's opened, just to give you the entirely false impression
14:45
that I planned these monologues, So I'll just loop it straight back to the beginning and say they used to sell root beer in McDonald's in this country
14:51
Delicious. What does this mean? What does it mean? I mean, how
15:01
You know my favourite ogy of all time? When I talk about complicated things
15:06
it's like getting the eggs out of a baked cake, right? How on earth does the United Kingdom extricate itself
15:12
from the, quote, special relationship, end quotes, with the United States of America
15:16
Three questions. What does this mean? 0345 6060 973. Second question, how does this happen
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Any ideas at all? I'll take anything. 0345 6060 973. And the third question
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as is often the case when I get to the end of these introductions, do you agree with my ysis
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And indeed George Robertson's, that this isn't just a blip. This isn't just a hiccup, a bump in the road
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This isn't just a temporary glitch in the relationship between the United Kingdom and the United States
15:49
but it's a lesson for the ages. We must now, as a nation, detach ourselves from dependence on the United States of America
15:59
They are no longer a reliable ally. I think that's a very strong argument for them no longer being an ally at all
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