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Donald Trump has branded NATO "useless" and told them to "stay away unless they want to load their shops with oil" after Iran announced the reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. The president said he received a call from the alliance on Friday shortly after Tehran said the passage would be opening for "all commercial vessels". Trump welcomed the announcement, but shortly afterwards took another swipe at Nato who he branded "useless" when needed by the US, calling them a "paper tiger". Former NATO spokesman Mark Laity reacts to Trump's statement and outlines exactly why European countries have been reluctant to get involved. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #matthewwright #nato #trump #donaldtrump #europe #politics #iran #middleeast #israel #usa #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
What do we make of Donald Trump once again berating NATO, calling NATO useless, a paper tiger
0:09
This after the United Kingdom and France announced that they were going to be working together with a number
0:14
I think more than 40 other nations, to protect shipping in the Strait of Hormuz as soon as conditions allow
0:24
There's a caveat for you. Now that the harmless Straight situation is almost over. I received a call from NATO
0:34
Asking if we would like some help Thank you very much NATO and I told them I would have liked your help two months ago
0:44
But now I really don't want your help anymore Because they were absolutely useless when we needed them
0:53
But actually we never needed them. They needed us. They need us
1:00
They need us so badly. I'm joined by Mark Laity, former spokesperson for NATO
1:05
former defence correspondent for the BBC, and always a calm head in these febrile times
1:10
Nice to see you, Mark. Before we get on to Trump and his useless NATO
1:15
how open or not is the Strait of Hormuz? I don't think it's open fundamentally
1:23
You know, the Iranians said they would open it full stop. Then Trump said that the blockade will continue
1:33
Now the Iranians have said, well, maybe we won't open it. And they also seem to put down a condition about the route out, which would be unusual
1:43
And I think beyond all that is no tanker is going to go through it unless they have a feeling of confidence
1:51
So even if both sides are saying it's open, are they confident
1:56
And the answer is they're not, and they have good reason not to be confident. And, of course, one tanker being hit in the strait would close it for a very long time
2:06
and they are, you know, a tanker full of oil is a huge sum of money
2:11
and the insurance company would go absolutely doolally. So I think in the end unless both sides are confident that they can open it unless tanker people are confident then it not effectively open
2:25
Trump's later salvos against NATO. I mean, they're becoming almost boringly familiar
2:32
Perhaps more concerning was his suggestion towards the back end of the last week
2:38
that the US may one day could withdraw from NATO. Yes, I mean there's a lot of barriers to him doing that in the sense that there's congressional votes
2:51
there's original treaty obligations and so on. So I think he would, you know, he tends to think he can do things by executive order and it happens
3:00
But even in America, we're beginning to see the limits with the numbers of them being struck down by judges
3:07
So an executive order, I'm out, is not going to cut it. There's a lot of limitations
3:13
He could, though, say, well, I'm just not going to do the exercises
3:16
I'm going to withdraw troops. And they could all do that. And that would effectively withdraw NATO, withdraw the Americans from NATO and render it fairly ineffective in that sense
3:29
But there's a lot of bluster there, as we've all seen with Trump
3:32
that we're getting to the point with his statements that you can neither take them literally nor seriously because he changes his mind
3:40
But he doesn't like NATO. But let's be clear about that. He doesn't like NATO
3:46
And one of the reasons he doesn't, he doesn't understand NATO. I mean, to be fair, when I did look at the number of nations that hadn't paid their sort of fair share
3:55
in one sense I could understand part of his sort of ire towards NATO
3:59
The mixed messages we've had since the invasion or the attacks against Iran from the back end of February
4:07
have been, on the one hand you've got, I don't need NATO, I don't need anyone
4:12
I've won the war on my own, and then the next minute is, you guys never came
4:17
you're paper tigers, you're useless. I have this, I have a worrying sense
4:22
that I could see Trump just walking away from the conflict, leaving a massive vacuum of both military and civil strife
4:34
Is that where the UK France and gathering of 40 other nations is that when we going to step in and have to clean up Trump dirty work
4:46
Essentially, yes. The condition, the fundamental condition that was coming out yesterday
4:53
is that when there is an ending to the current conflict, then France and Britain will lead an effort into escortships through
5:02
to give confidence, which we talked about before, also to make sure it's safe, potentially mine hunters, to make sure that no sea mines are there, and so on
5:12
But it is a post-conflict offer they're making, which would still be valuable
5:17
because as we've seen, the lack of confidence is entirely justified, and nobody is going to do it unless they feel they can
5:25
So that's what they're really talking about. I think with regard to NATO, one of the things that comes over is he says NATO hasn't done anything
5:34
Actually, he's not asked NATO to do anything. NATO is an institution
5:41
He has never been to the... America has not been to the North Atlantic Council
5:45
which makes the decisions to say, will NATO help? He's just picking on the member countries
5:52
Exactly. He's talking about NATO nations. So if you want to criticize NATO nations, fine
5:59
But, of course, he's not just then. he also ought to include South Korea, Australia
6:05
all the South Asian nations who aren't members of NATO. So when he says NATO hasn't helped me
6:13
it does reveal that he doesn't understand what he's saying because NATO is an institution
6:18
and he's never asked the institution to help. One final question. How would you assess how Iran has dealt with the US-Israeli attack so far
6:34
I was reading quite a lot yesterday in Middle Eastern publications that in many ways Iran, when you can go back to the Obama agreement
6:43
that Iran at the moment has not really bent over to any conditions
6:49
or force from Donald Trump thus far. One of the things is Iran let be clear that Iran has been massively damaged The oil blockade against it is actually hurting quite quickly It lost a lot of power
7:06
It's much rockier than it used to be. But as, if you like, the less powerful element of this, it's come over as a much more rational actor
7:18
It's had a clarity about what it wants to do. It's used the Strait of Omos as a weapon much more effectively
7:26
So in that sense, Iran has dealt with, if you like, a fundamentally weak hand really rather well
7:34
And that's not, you know, that's not me saying, isn't Iran wonderful, because I'm not a fan of Iran
7:39
How long can it play that hand? Well, that's an interesting one
7:46
because we lack a lot of information about what's going on inside Iran
7:51
curiously, the American oil blockade on Iran means that suddenly his ability to finance itself to keep going has been eliminated
8:04
So the blockade on Iran's oil is now weakening it on a week-by-week basis
8:10
But it's certainly willing to withstand pain in a way that a lot of other people aren't
8:16
So your pain threshold is very high. is control over its populace still seems to be firm
8:23
So I think that it would calculate that it can still withstand more pain for longer than America
8:31
And I think most people would say at the moment that's still the case
8:35
because Trump, as you alluded to earlier, at some point he might just walk away and say
8:41
declare a victory, because naturally he will declare a victory, and then leave Iran in a relatively strong position
8:49
And they're hoping out of this will come an ability to maintain control over the strait
8:55
in a much more fundamental way than they did at the beginning of this conflict
8:59
So in essence, we could end up in a worse situation than we had with the Obama deal
9:05
I mean, I think, you know, the best case is that they're going to end up with a nuclear deal
9:10
which is very similar to what Obama had. But in the meantime, they've spent trillions
9:15
trying to get to it and caused a global recession. Terrific
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