Up next in 10
Shelagh Fogarty is joined by Lewis Goodall as Prince Harry and Meghan land in the UK (0:13).
Their return to Britain comes days after it was revealed the couple were moving back six years after quitting royal duties and relocating to Montecito.
Lewis and Shelagh also reflect on the live of country legend Dolly Parton, after she passed at the age of 80.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
#lewisgoodall #dollyparton #princeharry #meghanmarkle #uspolitics #news #LBC
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0:00
Here to do a sort of double whammy, really
0:02
First things first, we'll talk about Dolly Parton in a moment and her sad demise
0:07
But before that, Prince Harry and Meghan, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex
0:12
have, we are told, arrived in the UK or about to arrive in the UK? Apparently so, Sheila
0:16
All of the people who, for some reason, are avowedly watching this story and want to hear about it
0:20
The Duke and Duchess of Sussex have apparently already back in the UK. It's been widely reported their children have believed to have flown into the country privately from California
0:29
not getting the red eye that's weird isn't it oh that's they should have down in economy
0:33
with everybody else no no they've flown in privately I wonder whose jet it was well who knows
0:37
landed in Birmingham shortly before midday maybe they're going to go and live in Sutton Coalfield
0:41
that'd be nice wouldn't it next year they'd love that on Boldmere oh like
0:45
oh Megan just taking the kids around Sutton Coalfield Park oh Sutton Park
0:48
come on kids let's go to the ball ring come on right come on Lily Bits come on Lily Bits Archie
0:52
come on right that's it we're going to say well let's talk about which schools are they going to go to
0:56
they're going to go to King Edwards Camp Hill. Of course they are. Is that where you went? Should have, no, of course
1:00
No, they're not going to Turfs Green Boys Technology College, are they? Let's be honest. Sorry, TGBS
1:05
They're going to have to deal with me as their most famous alumnus for a little while yet. That'll do for now
1:09
That'll do for now. For now it will. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's going to be, I mean, I was just thinking
1:13
when I saw the news break that they'd arrived or were about to arrive, I just thought to myself
1:18
okay, you know, so begins the alternative parallel court because that's what this is going to become
1:25
Yes, probably. I mean, you know, I suppose the big question now is that while they've been in California
1:31
it's been easy to, like a gangrenous limb, amputate them from the House of Windsor
1:36
But now they're back in the UK. All of these events that will come up where, you know, whether, I mean, the imminent one, isn't it
1:42
Is that what the imminent anniversary of Princess Diana's death? You know, there's going to be something around that
1:48
All of those things, all of those sort of official, quasi-official things. And I've seen sort of speculation that he's not going to be invited to them, say, you know
1:55
because he's not a fully working royal, but will that really kind of wash
1:59
when he is so close to the king himself? And I just think it sort of poses all of these questions
2:05
but quite frankly, they should all just grow up. I don't think they do many public things around the late Princess of Wales anymore, do they
2:11
I think there's some sort of memorial or something that's in Nadar. I can't remember when it is
2:15
but apparently there is going to be something. But there is, to use an old-fashioned term
2:19
there is the season, isn't there? Yes. The debutante season. You know, the kind of thing
2:24
whether it's the races or the proms or the trooping of the colour
2:29
It'll all become as much more acute as to whether he'll be invited and everything then just becomes political
2:33
and of course the irony is if there are some of these events that he's not invited to
2:38
that people feel that he should be then the royal family sort of say
2:41
well that's protocol because he's not working then that actually resurrects all of those
2:45
Diana type questions doesn't it about not flying the flag because it wasn't the protocol
2:49
all that stuff, using HRA all that stuff which has been easier to deal with
2:53
why they've been in the kind of gilded, sealed tomb of Montecito
2:57
That's all been kind of fine. But now they're in the country itself. Harder to avoid those questions
3:02
I suppose it's the equivalent for a more ordinary family. It's the equivalent of either, I don't know, a former in-law or an ex-wife
3:11
or a brother, sister-in-law that you have a feud with, or who've hurt you very badly
3:18
Coming back to live in the same street or the same borough
3:22
after living miles and miles away. Well, that's the thing. I mean, you know, family members..
3:26
Don't want it, do you? Family members not talking to each other, siblings at each other's throats
3:31
people refusing to go to the same social events. It sounds like a good old family Christmas
3:35
I mean, honestly, you know, this is the thing where I can get behind the sort of royals because at least in that sense
3:40
they're just as completely screwed up as everybody else. But I do think that clearly, look, they're going to have to work through this
3:46
in a way that they wouldn have had to do before And one thing I would say though of course is that and I know people they got their detractors I sure they difficult to deal with and have been difficult to deal with By the way I can imagine any member of the royal family is particularly easy
4:00
to deal with, or particularly kind of normal in the way they interact about anything. But in a way
4:05
their whole shtick or their whole ysis was, we need to leave California because really the
4:10
press coverage we get is just too much and it's too negative and it's too unpleasant. Well, if they did, anyone did want to have a pretty good exemplification of that, then really
4:19
all you would need to do is look at the newspapers over the last seven days or so, when, you know, they have been just sort of, there's been a deluge of
4:25
sort of what I would just say is that classic kind of really British press caustic cynicism
4:31
of, oh, now you're coming back, now you're tail between your legs. I mean, for goodness sake, I mean, this was a guy who was at one point
4:38
you know, I mean, he's the king's second son. You would think if you were a monarchist, which a lot of these same people claim to be
4:44
that you might think it would be a good idea. the king as far as we know is still an ill man we're not allowed to know about our head of head
4:50
of state's health in terms of detail apparently but as far as we know he's still an ill man
4:55
not completely unnatural that perhaps his second son might want to spend some time with him
4:59
in his twilight years didn't this also this kind of vitriol also uh get leveled at um
5:05
the duke of windsor or the king that became the duke of windsor sorry i should be clear
5:11
and even Diana to a degree after the divorce, the papers had their camps, didn't they
5:18
They did, they did. I mean, it was easy with the Duke of Windsor, of course, because the terms of the agreement
5:22
in which he lived his rather splendid isolation and exile in the Bois de Boulogne in Paris were such that he..
5:30
Well, that he was only allowed to even return to the UK with the express permission of the monarch of the day
5:37
which was seldom awarded. so they could kind of keep him out in Paris
5:41
But until his death in the early 1970s, I think, 1972, was it
5:45
He, you know, he did continue to be a source of irritation, embarrassment
5:50
because this is the thing. I mean, this is the thing about monarchy, right, is that, you know, you can't choose your family
5:56
and they can't, even if they take that, which they've done, taken the HRH away
6:00
and he's not a working royal. He will always be the king's son, and therefore always a subject and object of fascination
6:06
and he will always be able to get a hearing from somebody somewhere
6:11
and they won't be able to control it, which is always why I thought it was a particularly bad piece
6:16
of political management, if nothing else, to allow the schism to take place in the first place
6:21
Royal schisms don't have a great history. No, they do not. Did they lose their HRH and just retain the title
6:27
I believe so. I didn't realise that, or I'd forgotten it. They have their dupedom, but they don't have the HRH
6:35
But they can't be called Your Royal Highness. Apparently not. What do you think they call them? Hazza
6:40
Redhead? You mean people who meet them? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Redhead? There will be people who will still say
6:44
Your Royal Highness. I'm sure they will. Your Royal Highness. I'm sure they will. Sire, Your Eminence
6:48
They probably just want to be called Harry. Well, he probably wants just to be called Harry, doesn't he
6:52
Maybe she doesn't. She made the point, didn't she, in one of her cooking programmes that
6:57
no, a podcast that she had a title and her name was Sussex Nass. Yes
7:02
Because we all get in line behind that. let's talk about dolly parton the real queen you broke my queen while you and i were having a drink
7:08
yesterday evening you broke the news to me that dolly and everything else we've been talking about
7:13
just went by the by and we then continue to talk about dolly she transcended what she did for a
7:18
living let's say that i think transcendent is precisely the word uh sheila not for the first
7:23
time you put your finger on it she was a transcendent cultural figure um and i'm not
7:29
going to opine about her music although i do really like her music because there are people far better qualified than me to talk about it
7:34
But I will just talk about briefly her politics. And that kind of sounds weird in a sense
7:38
because she was such an apolitical figure. She consciously in her half career or more eschewed politics She tried to distance herself from politics Whenever she was asked whether she was a Republican or a Democrat She said that I had a Republican mother and a Democrat father
7:54
so that makes me a hypocrite. You know, she said when she was asked for president multiple times
7:58
that there are already too many boobs in politics. You know, all of this stuff she would very elegantly manage to sidestep
8:04
And yet I would say she was a deeply political figure with a small p
8:08
because what she did, and if she isn't political, what I would certainly say is that she was moral
8:14
You know, we're just talking about royalty. And in a sense, I was talking about this with John Sopel this morning
8:19
who I don't often quote approvingly, but he actually said this morning in our morning meeting for the news agents
8:24
he was saying, you know, this is America's, almost America losing a queen
8:29
And initially I sort of scoffed at that. And then I thought about it a bit more, which doesn't often happen with me when I think about John Sopel stuff
8:35
No, I think he's right. But he's completely right in the sense there was something almost stately about her
8:39
something most regal in a sense that she was to use your word transcendent of politics this was
8:45
despite the fact that she had many actually quite liberal views whenever she was pushed on politics
8:51
or whenever she talked about them you know she was supportive of lgbt rights including the t bit of
8:57
that she was very supportive of of transgender people socially liberal views didn't she she was
9:02
socially liberal if one thinks about some of her views she was a feminist a feminist before the word
9:07
was much coined. They never called herself one. She said, I'm all for gals
9:12
I'm all for the gals. You know, working nine to five is, you know
9:16
there's more politics in that than there are some presidential campaign speeches
9:20
Barbara Castle could have written that. Indeed so. It was a speech about workers' rights. It was a speech about the dominance of the bosses
9:27
It was a speech about the patriarchy before we even used those sorts of terms
9:32
And this happened again and again and again. And I think the key with it, How was it that a Tennessee churchgoer and a Tennessee drag queen could love her all the same
9:43
Well, part of it was... She was both. She was both. Of those things
9:46
She was sort of both. She managed to have socially liberal views couched in a kind of what appeared to be a cultural conservatism
9:56
In other words, she believed Democrat, but she taught Republican. She seemed Republican and she never lectured anybody
10:01
she coined the politics of authenticity before that was even a thing people believed it when she
10:08
spoke she never patronized anybody and i think if you think about progressives and cultural liberalism
10:13
these days when one hears particularly celebrities hollywood type celebrities talking about their
10:17
views about this they can it can be patronizing or condescending and tedious and that is something
10:23
that she never was and i think that liberals and progressives thinking about how to reach
10:27
voters and people in more culturally conservative places, both the United States or the UK
10:35
or whatever it is, could learn much from her example in how she spoke and the sort of
10:39
communicators that are needed in politics to speak to those people, because she was
10:43
remarkable in that way. She was popular Democrat and Republican alike. And we'll finish on the books and the literacy stuff, because I think that is a massive part
10:52
of her legacy but as well as that it was interesting to see the select the particularly
10:56
the female celebrities and singers people like taylor swift people like debbie harry of blondie
11:02
uh paying tribute to her online and that in in various ways they were saying i couldn't have been
11:07
me without you being you first absolutely she was she was a she was a trailblazer and i think as
11:14
well one of the things that allowed her to have that authenticity of course is her background you
11:18
You know, when I think about her story, what you see is a class story
11:22
You see a working class woman, and not just working class, underclass, really. You know, born in Appalachia, one of 12
11:28
Her parents, you know, had so little money, literally log cabin story
11:32
had so little money they had to pay the doctor who delivered her with a sack of cornmeal
11:37
And yet she became one of the most successful business people in America She was as you say feminist even though she didn describe herself in that way
11:47
She was jealous about her songwriting rights, and she created this whole commercial empire
11:52
She told Elvis to do one over I Will Always Love You. And she did
11:56
And if you think about it, and I think one of the reasons why, again, both Democrats, Republicans, Liberal Conservatives
12:02
people who weren't political at all, thought so much of her is because so many would recognise that story
12:09
I mean, if you think about those lyrics, Sheila, in Coat of Many Colours, just to finish with this. So with patches on my britches and holes in both my shoes
12:16
in my coat of many colours, I hurried off to school just to find the others laughing
12:21
and making fun of me. In my coat of many colours, my mumma made for me
12:25
And that's poetry. And that's the poetry that spoke to the hearts of so many people, whether you were left or right
12:31
or something in between. And in her earlier days, she had songs banned. She had records banned
12:35
There was one she wrote about women not necessarily being virgins when they got married
12:40
And there was a great deal of hoo-ha about the lyric. Because she was saying, my sins before marriage, you know, worse than your sins before marriage kind of thing
12:47
And people had expectations of women then that we don't have now
12:51
And she pushed back against it when nobody was pushing back against it. Well, I think what she had, and this is what I mean about her politics being a moral one, which was transcendent
12:59
which is that she had her religious upbringing and what she took from that religious upbringing
13:05
is not what many others take from it, which is she didn't take doctrine or zealotry
13:11
She took a sense of accepting people for who and what they were
13:15
Love and charity. Love and charity and living and living. And she articulated that very well
13:21
And I think that is ultimately the other reason, just to finish, I think the other reason why that sort of cultural element of her life
13:28
and that kind of moral teaching element of her life, even though she would never have articulated it that way
13:32
or necessarily thought of herself in that way, why it resonated so much is that decency came through a lot
13:37
But in terms, she never tried to translate it into a party political way
13:42
And I think when I think about her, you know, I think she sort of thinks about politics
13:46
or thought about politics in the way that most people think about politics
13:50
It's different for people like you, Michelle, who live and breathe this stuff and we forget this. But she, you know, even in America
13:56
which is deeply polarised, and we think of being as addicted to the news and addicted to politics and won't talk to each other
14:02
There are elements of that, of course there are, but it's true that most Americans, like she
14:06
if they're pressed on their politics, don't really want to talk about it, and they will only talk about it intermittently
14:11
and go through their lives without even thinking about it much through the day. And that is why when she did speak about it
14:17
even, as I say, with that small p-political way, it had all the more effect
14:22
And I also think that she, there was a caller to James's programme just before I come on air
14:26
who was saying, she was an older woman, and she said she literally
14:31
whenever I saw her speak or sing or just saw her, when she was all colour and smiles and openness, wasn't she
14:37
that this caller said she switched a light on within me, which is quite something, isn't it
14:42
You know, people are moved by music. But to say that somebody switched a light on within you
14:48
I think that what she was, was, and the books are almost an expression of it
14:54
she was somebody who relished everything that she did and had she didn't take any of it for granted
15:01
and therefore she wanted to give it away to people she didn't just want to hoard it she wanted to give
15:05
it away to people and i think that is such a great exemplar of a life and had and had so little
15:10
apparent ego which is i mean just one final thing one quote she said when she was being asked about
15:15
you know her looks and and and and you know her style and everything she said that isn't all i am
15:22
it's not even most of what I am hopefully people can see beneath the hair
15:26
to know that there's a brain beneath the boobs to know that there's a heart
15:30
and behind all the other stuff to know there's some talent well wasn't there just well we did
15:34
wasn't there just we did Dolly we did
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