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Denmark's centre-left leader is moving to ban mosques from broadcasting the call to prayer. The move has sparked a debate about whether other countries should do the same, both in the UK and abroad. Shelagh Fogarty and Ben Kentish heard our callers opinions on the matter. 00:00 - Caller Hasmain, a Muslim, explains why he understands the move 05:53 - Caller Turner says he 'likes hearing' the call to prayer 09:11 - Caller Phil wants it banned, even though he knows the move is discriminatory 11:47 - Caller Holly says 'religion isn't what makes you British' #shelaghfogarty #benkentish #islam #ukpolitics #multicultural #religion #debate #lbc
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0:00
Hi, Laura, Sheila. How are you
0:02
I'm fine, thanks. Yeah, yeah. I'm all right. But basically, I've got two points to make, yeah
0:07
So the first point that I want to make is the way you can bypass this
0:11
So it's like completely like it doesn't need to be like spoken about
0:15
which happens in the UK. So like with our mosque, it does the call to prayer
0:20
but it's on like a radio frequency. So we buy radios that we have in our house
0:27
And then when the call to prayer is done, it's on the radio so we can hear it from our home
0:34
So it is sent out to every person, but it's done it in like a discreet way so it doesn't cause, like, it's not out loud
0:42
It doesn't cause a nuisance to other people. That's really interesting. That's the way to do it, isn't it
0:47
That is completely, it's like a sidestep out of the box thought process and saves everybody's headache and everybody's time and everything like that
0:56
And in Ireland, there's a prayer called the Angelus, a Catholic prayer called the Angelus
1:02
And I think it's 12 midday and 6pm is when you say the Angelus
1:07
Now, Ireland is a much less Catholic country than it used to be. And the church doesn't have the same kind of power that it used to have there
1:14
But so I'm not sure it still happens. But it used to be played on radio programs, for example, in Ireland
1:20
You would hear the... And then you could tune in yourself if you wanted to hear it. So that's how it would be
1:25
It's not like it's kind of like forced upon in a way where like they're putting it out there
1:30
And regardless of you want to hear it or you don't want to hear it, you have to hear it
1:34
Whereas it should be if you want to hear it, you can go to it and make your own way to hear it
1:40
The same way, like if you wanted to watch a movie, it's not going to be blared on every TV screen
1:45
But you go to a specific place to see the movie. Do you know what I mean
1:49
I do know what you mean. So if if we did ban it here, do you think there'd be an uproar or not
1:55
here and Denmark that's the second point I wanted to bring along different countries
2:00
yeah the second point is it's not it's not even about different countries it's about the majority
2:04
so basically if the call to prayer was that we said Muslims said that oh we want to put the call
2:11
to prayer out loud in the UK all five times a day the majority of the UK is not Muslim so if you
2:17
add it statistically to the people that are going to benefit from it and the people that aren't going
2:21
benefit from it the beneficiaries are left because the muslims hearing it are less to the
2:26
non-muslims or everybody else who's not following islam but they have to hear it anyway
2:31
so it's unfair in that sense but to impose it on someone yeah if it was a muslim country
2:38
it's the other way around because the majority is muslim so the benefit is a lot of muslims are
2:44
going to hear it yeah because my understanding is that in most muslim countries you don't go around
2:49
declaring your Christianity left, right and centre? Yeah, no, it should... Or Judaism or..
2:55
The thing is, yeah, that's where the problem is. No religion should be allowed to declare
2:59
or force it upon anyone or, like, make people feel uncomfortable because of the way they believe
3:05
and everything like that. Everybody is on their own path. And the problem is
3:09
people are forcing it upon other people when they don't even do it themselves
3:14
Do you know what I mean? Oh, you mean they do it for show? Yeah, they give advice that they don't even follow
3:20
And then the problem is, is it's always wrong advice, number one
3:24
Number two people see in the wrong light But if you only hear bad that all you going to all you going to see is bad in that person like type thing but back to the point with the call to prayer i think in denmark
3:39
they shouldn't ban it but they should tell the muslims that look listen if you if you really like
3:44
want to follow islam the point of islam is peace you have to keep peace you can clearly see that
3:50
it's not causing peace it doesn't need to be done it's not like a necessity it's not like oh if the
3:55
the prayer doesn't work if it's out loud or not. Regardless whether it's on a speaker or not on a speaker
4:02
Can I ask you what the words are? Is it called the Adan? Is that right? Yeah, Adan
4:07
Sorry, I mispronounced it. And what are the words? I don't know it
4:11
So it's a lot of words. So it's split into, so it's basically you send salutations upon God
4:21
You like all praise to God. Then it's all praise upon the prophet. and then you say um then after it's like the next sentence will be come to salah which is come to
4:30
prayer then after it'll be like come to success obviously because we believe that if you pray
4:36
success like your life is successful so it'd be like come to success and then it's like your
4:41
you say the shahada which is like the the you know you send salutations upon the prophet again
4:47
and then you say the the face the telema of the face
4:53
so those are the prayers you make when you do your prayers five times a day
4:58
are they? no that's the quarter prayer that's like line by line
5:03
so the quarter prayer is about seven, eight sentences long and that's each sentence broken down
5:08
so it's just like imagine if someone's saying to you come to the church
5:12
remember God in the church you can come to the church But because it's before prayer, it's like the routine of prayer
5:22
So you have to do the call to prayer and then the prayer. So for your money, keep it private, get it on the radio, tune in
5:29
and it doesn't have to be public. Yeah, it doesn't have to be
5:33
That's one thing. It doesn't have to be broadcasted. That's the problem. They're broadcasting when they don't need to
5:39
Like the people in Denmark, surely one of the prayers is like three, four in the morning
5:43
like you that's full stop that it should be wrong full stop because because that is a nuisance it's
5:49
that is intrusive when people are trying to sleep and the like yeah hazmin thank you you've educated
5:53
me so you like hearing the call to prayer yes um we my wife and i holiday in turkey every year and
5:59
have done for the past 20 years or so um and it's just one of the nice parts of the country you know
6:05
it's nothing you know i know when you're in a muslim country you're going to hear it but i don't
6:10
find it in any way threatening or dominant at all you know and it's a lovely sound you know
6:16
i think it depends on what you a what exposure you've had to it and b what uh how you interpret
6:24
what it is do you know what i mean some people will interpret it as dominance i mean to be honest
6:30
five times a day including the middle of the night i would i would regard that as just intrusive
6:36
noise rather than any religious dominance. Do you know what I mean? Possibly
6:40
But, I mean, you could say the same about, you know, if you live near a railway line
6:44
or on a flight path, it's probably something you would get used to
6:48
You know, if it doesn't offend you in any way, you think you might get used
6:52
to it. But we have, we're in Edinburgh and we're not near the mosque
6:56
It you know it a few miles from here so we never hear that But you know they nice people I mean they have I believe what they call the mosque kitchen in Edinburgh where anyone can go in and have a meal you know
7:08
Yeah, mosques, as much as churches, do great work for their communities, yeah
7:12
Yeah, yeah. But, no, I think it's nice. You know, I can understand, you know, if you live in an area where, you know
7:20
it's predominantly, what's James would call it, brown-skinned people, you may feel a different way about that
7:29
but certainly I don't and we don't. Do you think, I mean, we're not Denmark
7:34
we're a different country and we've got a much deeper history and experience
7:38
of being multicultural and I know that's still, you know, that parts of that are very much disputed still
7:44
but do you think we wouldn't go down the route that Denmark is looking at going down
7:50
I don't think so. I can't see that being the case. I remember years ago
7:56
my aunt lived in a part of Edinburgh and it was a
8:01
Church of Scotland church and they played their bells through loudspeakers on a Sunday evening
8:08
they didn't actually have bells or such it was a recording and they used to play that across the area
8:14
I remember hearing that But is that slightly different because it's just bells
8:20
not speech of any sort I don't think so to me it doesn't make any difference
8:26
I think it's part of the culture and religion So do you think church bells or call to
8:34
prayer it's either intrusive or it's not and it's that that you decide on not which religion
8:40
gets to do it and which religion doesn't Yes I agree with you but
8:44
I don't find it intrusive that's my opinion other people might find it intrusive but I certainly don't
8:50
doesn't bother me at all. And you don't think we would go that way
8:55
I can't see that happening, to be perfectly honest. You know, unless, say, certain politicians
9:01
who remain nameless get their way, I don't see that becoming more in this country
9:07
You know who I'm talking about. Yes, yeah. Thank you very much, Turner. Good to talk to you again
9:11
I don't disagree with Denmark at all, actually. I do support it. For the same reasons I would say
9:16
banning all the Muslim calls of power in the UK would be acceptable thing to do also
9:22
My rationale of thinking would be that religion is a very personal thing
9:27
So in the UK, we're a very accepting, open, friendly nation to all colours, creeds, religions
9:32
But religion shouldn't be pushed into anyone's face. So the same reason I wouldn't want..
9:37
I'm a Christian, born and raised, but I wouldn't want my church bells rang five times a day
9:42
at a crazy volume every day of the week. And for the same reason, I wouldn't want Muslim calls to prayer either
9:48
it's unnecessary if there's other ways that they can receive it that's the way to go
9:54
So you wouldn't ban church bells but you would ban the Muslim call to prayer
9:58
I wouldn't ban church bells and not from some crazy nationalistic just from the fact that we are
10:04
historically a Christian nation that's the way this country originally has been built
10:09
But most of us don't go to church Phil in this day and age
10:13
so the people for whom church bells ringing will actually be relevant
10:16
and useful is pretty small It may be true but customer practice rules through the years I not sure there many people putting complaints in for one or two rounds of church bell peels on a Sunday morning or afternoon My mum actually rings church bells on a Sunday and a Tuesday Do you think many people are genuinely disrupted or offended by the Muslim call to prayer
10:40
I hear you if it's going out at millions of decibels all through the night, that's one thing
10:45
but that's not Denmark's basis for banning it. They're banning it because they think it has no place in Denmark
10:50
and that to me sounds incredibly backward and intolerant of them. Yeah, I'd like to understand a bit more
10:55
about the meaning of no place in Denmark. Is that saying that Muslims have no place in Denmark
11:00
You might as well ban mosques. If your view is that Muslim call to prayer has no place in Denmark
11:05
then what's the rationale for thinking that mosques or Muslim people have a place in Denmark
11:10
That's why I think it's quite discriminatory. It does get quite discriminatory and starting to get far right
11:14
I don't disagree with you. But in terms of should we allow other religions to
11:20
let's call it, overly promote? So for the same reason... But they're not trying to lure you to the mosque
11:26
it's simply a call to prayer for people who want to go and pray at the mosque. Yeah, but those people who want to go and pray at the mosque
11:32
know very well what time these services are, they know what time of day and on what days and when to go
11:37
And it can come through WhatsApp, it can come through email, it can come through many different formats
11:41
it doesn't have to be publicly inaudible. I don't think I agree with you, but I hear you
11:46
Thank you very much, Jeannie, for the first time call. Hi, yes. I called in because I'm against it
11:54
I think that for me personally, I'm not Muslim. I was brought up in Northumberland, although I now live in London
12:02
and our background was not practicing Christians, but I went to a Church of England school
12:08
I came from a place that was predominantly white Christian based, and therefore most of the things that I did and celebrated through school
12:17
or outside of school are tied into Christianity. But I think living now in London, having kids of my own, being married to somebody from Albania who has a Muslim heritage, seeing the world a bit more, it doesn't make me feel that I'm suddenly going to lose my Englishness if that policy was to be brought over here
12:41
And I think if you are a true patriot, then you can understand and take away religion from what it is to be Danish or anarchist English or whatever it may be
12:55
Religion is religion. It is not your national identity. It can be a part of it because culturally we are culturally previously a Christian country
13:08
But if I hear a call to prayer, I'm not all of a sudden going to be forced to wear a hijab or read the Koran
13:15
So what do you make, Ali, of this Danish immigration minister saying the Muslim call to prayer has no place in Denmark
13:22
I think it's misleading because, you know, I don't know the statistics for Denmark specifically
13:29
But as anywhere in Europe, there will be a population of people that practice, you know, being Muslim
13:36
So therefore, if you are living in a country that is religiously tolerant
13:42
and part of your religion is a call to prayer, then that should be respected
13:46
Yeah, and if an Arab or Muslim country had come out and said, we are banning the ringing of church bells because they have no place in our country
13:54
I think most of us, wouldn't we, would conclude that that was pretty backward, pretty discriminatory and pretty intolerant
14:00
So is it any different in this case, given it's Europe? Thank you, Holly
14:04
I think I'm with you
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