Up next in 10
Ben Kentish and LBC callers react to Pete Hegseth's 'unprecedented' comments about the UK and its allies' role in Afghanistan.
0:00 | Pete Hegseth should 'pipe down and shut up'
6:03 | How the UK government should respond
11:09 | This is a case of 'wrong and right'
14:30 | Veteran is 'disgusted' by the comments
17:30 | Why the UK shouldn't get 'offended'
No10 said the US Secretary of State for War was "wrong" when he said just one or two nations took part in combat operations.
It comes after the US vice President JD Vance sparked a similar row after his comments about Nato allies in March.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
A story that I think really should have got more attention today than it has
0:04
And the only reason it hasn't is because I think we risk becoming immune to what is going on
0:10
And my goodness, we shouldn't be. Because today, a senior member of the United States government
0:16
has said one of the most offensive, obnoxious things about our country
0:21
that any senior member of any US administration has said in a very, very long time
0:27
It is once again Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of State for war, who seems to think his job involves attacking not the US's enemies, but increasingly its allies, and more and more shooting from the hip
0:41
Pete Hegseth has once again made the claim today that US allies didn't really fight on the front line during the war in Afghanistan
0:51
Have a listen to this. I was a captain in Afghanistan, and we would go to the headquarters in Kabul, and there would be 50 flags at the headquarters
0:59
And it was a beautiful thing to see. Fifty different countries contributed to the NATO alliance and the ISAF mission there
1:05
Except there were like maybe five that contributed. It was actually close to one or two that actually, by the end, were actually involved in kinetic operations
1:13
In fact, the patch ISAF would joke that it meant I saw Americans fighting, which is sort of a joke
1:21
It's a joke, but it's demoralising when you feel like it's not burden sharing
1:26
It's actually a burden. It's a burden. It's a burden that the countries that joined the US in their endeavour to topple the Taliban were actually a burden
1:35
according to their current secretary of state for war, which only echoes, to be fair to Pete Hegseff, what his boss Donald Trump said back in January
1:43
I've always said, will they be there if we ever needed them? And that's really the ultimate test. And I'm not sure of that
1:49
I know that we would have been there or we would be there, but will they be there
1:53
And let's hope that that never happens. We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them
2:01
You know, they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that. And they did
2:05
They stayed a little back, a little off the front lines. And Trump unusually backed down, having said that
2:10
But now Pete Hedges has doubled down and repeated it. And I can't help but wonder how that feels to the families of the 457 British servicemen and women who were killed in that war in Afghanistan
2:25
Killed, if you believe Pete Hegseff, while they were, what, sitting around their secure base somewhere
2:32
playing cards and swigging beers and having a great time while the US forces went out to do the actual fighting
2:38
So if that's you, if you served in Afghanistan or you've got loved ones that did
2:43
what do you make of this offensive rubbish? 03456060973. But even the others, the many, many, many people who did fight in our military
2:56
maybe not in Afghanistan but elsewhere, how do you feel about being told that you, your comrades, our armed forces
3:03
are basically cowards who leave the hard work up to somebody else? Perhaps you who made all sorts of sacrifices, endured all sorts of horrors, lost friends and colleagues yourself
3:13
only to now be gaslit by the US Secretary of State for War
3:17
insisting that actually all of those things never really happened because you weren't actually really fighting
3:22
It was only the US that was doing that. Let me know
3:28
03456060973. I find it offensive. You can hear it. It gets my back up. I've never served in the military
3:33
My goodness, nobody would want that. My grandfather did. But apart from that, I don't have any direct connections to our armed forces
3:39
And if it angers me, I can only begin to imagine how you feel about it
3:44
If you yourself fought or you have close friends or loved ones who did
3:49
0345 6060 973. And even if you didn't, even if like me, you haven't actually served yourself and you don't have relatives who did
3:55
What about our government's response to this? Because let me just read to you what Downing Street has had to say about those appalling comments from Hegsa
4:03
Downing Street says this, frankly, the facts speak for themselves when it comes to the UK's and NATO's contribution to Afghanistan
4:10
Thousands of British and allied families made huge sacrifices to play their significant part in that war and uphold our values and more than 450 of them never returned
4:20
Their sacrifice and that of other NATO forces will never be forgotten and it's wrong to diminish their role
4:27
Fair enough, not going to disagree with any of that. Does that go far enough for you
4:32
Is that how our government should be responding to such a gratuitously offensive load of nonsense from Pete Hegser
4:39
Here's what I would have. If I was working in Downing Street today, here's what I would have said
4:43
I would have put out a statement that said this. The Prime Minister is extremely concerned about the offensive and utterly false claims made by the US Secretary of State for war
4:52
The Prime Minister will be seeking an urgent call with President Trump to express his utter dismay and seek an immediate withdrawal of this lie
5:00
That's what I would have said. And do you know what? I think Donald Trump would have quite rated that
5:05
I think he would have respected it more than the facts speak for themselves mealy mouth stuff that we got from the government today If our government won properly stand up for the 457 and their families
5:17
and all the others who fought in that conflict, then frankly, who will? So, yes, I wish Pete Hegseth would pipe down and shut up
5:23
and stop coming out with this rubbish along with Donald Trump. I also wish our government would speak up a bit more
5:29
and start calling this nonsense out for what it is rather than just saying the facts speak for themselves
5:36
because if we've learnt anything from Donald Trump and his team, it's that they have a flagrant disregard for facts of every flavour
5:43
So just saying, well, the facts speak for themselves, clearly they don't when you're dealing with people like this
5:48
So I would like Andy Burnham, West Street and the Defence Secretary, to come out fighting on behalf and in defence of
5:54
not just the 457, their memories and their families, but the rest of our military, who has to endure this utter nonsense
6:02
again and again and again. I think that the government should issue a simple statement explaining, you know, just reminding everyone what our troops did
6:13
But I think the real people who should be apologizing are all of the far right apologists throughout this country
6:18
including some on LBC who constantly pandered to Trump and Hexer in the early stages
6:25
and have constantly banged on about how many wars Trump has stopped
6:30
and all of the other stuff that the cheerleaders have been doing for the best part of a decade
6:35
They're the people that should be coming out apologising. They should be apologising to us and to the troops
6:40
and saying we're sorry that we supported a man who was quite clearly a deviant and depraved from the start
6:49
They're the ones who should apologise. And the senior politicians in this country, Joshua. Absolutely
6:53
You know, the Suella Bravmans, the Liz Trusses, the Boris Johnsons, the Nigel Farages, the Jacob Rees-Mogg
6:59
who made absolutely no secret whatsoever of their deep admiration and respect for Donald Trump
7:04
who now has shown a complete lack of any respect whatsoever, and Hexf, about our country and our armed forces
7:12
Yeah, I just... So, you know, I don't know why... With the greatest respect to you
7:16
I don't know why you're getting mad at the government when the government probably is staffed with people
7:21
who already know what kind of a scumbag Donald Trump and Pete Hexf are. Yeah, I agree
7:24
So why don't... Look, they can't call him a scumbag, obviously. I'm not saying they should come out and call Donald Trump a disgrace
7:30
and say we're never going to work with this guy. But I do think that the statement that Downing Street has come out with today
7:37
for me, Joshua, falls well short of what our military should expect
7:43
when it comes to our government standing up for what they did and the sacrifices they made
7:47
I don't think saying the facts speak for themselves is enough. I want Andy Burnham on the phone to Donald Trump tonight saying
7:53
Mr President, this is deeply offensive. please order your Secretary of State for war to withdraw this comment
7:58
And I think Trump would respect that as well. Well, look, I think they're damned if they do and they're damned if they don't
8:04
Why? Also as well. Why are they damned if they don't? Because if they come out and say, well, two things
8:09
First of all, I'll also say this. It's well documented as well that the army is full of far right
8:15
You know, I'm not going to cast them all with the same voice
8:18
but the army's got a lot of far right voices within. I think there should be a lot of internal apologising in that
8:25
Sorry, Joshua, which army? The British army. The British armed forces is full of right wing
8:30
What's the evidence for saying our army is full of far right voices? There's so many articles about this
8:35
I've been reading about this for the last 10 years. All in the newspapers, Ben. In the newspapers, I read the army forums
8:40
I read the army forums. I see what people write. And what do they write
8:44
They write a whole bunch of far right nonsense. OK, so there's a but like, please don't pretend that that is not the exact
8:54
So what? Because you don't like their politics? They have the right to be gaslit by the Trump administration
8:59
What I'm saying is there's some many of them are the same kind of people who would have been banging on about Trump being great for this country as well
9:06
And we want Trump in our country. I mean, what's that real admiral who was who was in Reform UK
9:11
Chris Parry. Chris Parry. He was banging on about Trump not so long ago. How many how many army
9:16
Well, I think blatant racist is something he would dispute. He did have to apologise for some comments that he made, Joshua
9:21
That is fair. Yeah. But coming back to the point, why do you think Andy Burnham shouldn't go further
9:27
And we're streeting in calling out what you and I agree is a hugely offensive series of comments from the Trump administration
9:35
Because most people are fed up of this now. We already know who and what Donald Trump is
9:40
I mean, he did it before. And I think Keir Starmer called him out. That's why I said at the start of the conversation
9:44
I think we are. it. I've been quite surprised at how little attention this has got. Because you go back 10
9:50
years, a US Secretary of State for Defence, war as he likes to call himself, coming out and saying
9:56
this would have been the front page of every newspaper. It would have been the top of every news bulletin. So unprecedented and unthinkable would it have been for a US government to make
10:06
such disparaging and disgraceful comments about our country. And because it almost goes with the
10:12
territory now Joshua as you say there's barely been a sort of blink about it today
10:16
and I just think there a risk that we become immune to it and we can and we shouldn Yeah I completely agree But again I just feel that people are tired now We all know who and what Trump is But you know when I said
10:29
earlier on about their being, their damnedest they do and their damnedest don't, if they come out and
10:33
criticise, you're going to get a whole bunch of right-wing commentators saying, oh, he shouldn't
10:38
You know, the US is our main ally. I know it's so what, but what I'm saying is, like, you cannot
10:43
win anymore with these people. I'm going to have to disagree with you there Joshua because Keir Starmer
10:49
wasn't exactly known for standing up to Donald Trump. Last time Trump said
10:53
something like this, came out and called the comments appalling and to be
10:57
fair, Trump backed down and put out a post basically praising the
11:01
role of the British forces in Afghanistan. So maybe Andy Burnham should take a leaf
11:05
out of Keir Starmer's book on that one and start standing up a bit more for our veterans
11:09
I'm not sure why Joshua's going on about right wing. This is a case of wrong and
11:13
right. If he was standing where I was today, I would speak to an ex-war
11:17
veteran who fought in Belfast, fought in the Falklands, and has lost his son
11:22
in Afghanistan. Now, he fought for his country in Belfast and the Falklands
11:29
He fought for America. That's Trump's gas. And lost his life. And this is the way he's paid back
11:37
457 brave men were killed, flew out there to fight the good fight
11:42
And all their families have just got to grieve and listen to this garbage from this man
11:47
And our Prime Minister doesn't want to say a dicky bird. I mean, I'm doing everything I can to keep the language sensible
11:54
You're doing a good job, Antti, but I share your anger and I share your indignation about this
11:57
I mean, Downing Street has said it's wrong. They have pointed out what actually happened
12:02
and they have said the facts speak for themselves. But you also think that that's not enough, do you
12:07
Well, the facts speak for themselves that they should be in 457 coffins
12:12
that these men have gone. and this man could just make these statements and not care what impact it has on these lives
12:19
People today that are probably just getting over their grief or trying to
12:23
have got to be reminded by this buffoon and his team of sycophants
12:28
that, oh, the troops are at the back and us tough GIs are at the front doing it
12:34
I mean, seriously, it's just wrong. And I know there's certain cases for points of view on this matter
12:43
but this is wrong and this bully has to be stopped. Our government has to stand up
12:48
and give them a punch on the nose of some kind, not just, oh, the facts speak for themselves
12:52
Where does that come from? If the facts spoke for themselves, we wouldn't be having this conversation
12:56
because we all know the facts. My goodness, your friend who lost his son in Afghanistan
13:00
know the facts. The bloke who doesn't know the facts, clearly, Pete Hegseth
13:04
and also Donald Trump, given what he said before. So Downing Street saying the facts speak for themselves
13:08
clearly they don't, or we wouldn't be in this place in the first place. what did your mate have to
13:13
sorry Anthony sorry I beg your pardon I was just going to ask you
13:17
how your friend felt about this having lost his son in this war
13:21
I was watching a 76 year old 6 foot 4 tough old vet crying
13:27
and it was heart rendering listening to this man speak about losing his son
13:33
in the prime of his life 24 year old son you know
13:36
and at the end of the day he fought for America you know we were called upon and we went out and helped it's just it's reminiscent of what he said
13:45
he did with the second world war isn't it yeah it is it is and next time America comes under attack
13:51
and calls for our support Anthony I mean UK governments would be right in saying well
13:54
last time we almost 500 of our servicemen and women laid down their lives for you and
14:00
and got told they'd done nothing so well actually you know you're on your own this time I mean I'm
14:06
not saying we should do that because our interests and theirs are aligned. We realise that on this
14:11
side of the Atlantic. They don't seem to. They think their interests are aligned with Vladimir
14:15
Putin more and more. But Anthony, I'm with you. I want to see more from our government in standing
14:20
up to Trump on behalf of the veterans, their families and all the others who did come back
14:27
but came back forever changed from that war and others like him. I find this quite disgusting, to be honest
14:33
I served 30 years in the military, five tours of Afghanistan, four in Iraq
14:40
stood next to my US colleagues in bunkers and shell holes, and we all got them together
14:47
So this political thing is trying to drive a divide, I feel, between the two militaries
14:55
I've lost three soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. and I've got the names on my leg tattooed in
15:03
That's so important it is. Even though you apparently weren't even fighting on the front line, Gus
15:07
according to the... I mean, it's not some random, you know, nobody commentator
15:12
This is the US Secretary of State for Defence. How do you feel when you heard, I don't know if you heard it
15:18
but you heard the clip of what he had to say? Yes, I did, sir. What's the emotion that sort of runs through you
15:23
It just disappoints me because I picked up soldiers wounded in action doing her job And yeah it wrong What would you like to see our government doing in response to it
15:41
They need to put a firm stance on this one. What I don't really understand, you could probably explain to me
15:51
Mr Defence Secretary never worked in the military. West Treaty, no, he didn't. Yeah
15:57
So how has he got qualifications? to be the Defence Secretary. I just don't quite figure it out
16:03
Nor did the previous one. I mean, we've had quite a few, haven't we? Gavin Williamson, Wes Streeting, John Healy
16:08
Yeah. It's quite emotional for me. I'm sure. I've lost probably four of my friends through PTSD
16:17
They've taken their own lives since we came back. And, yeah, we were there
16:25
You know what you saw, Gus. They knew what they witnessed and endured. even if Pete Hegseth doesn't
16:31
Yeah. We did a bit and we stood side by side with American, Canadian
16:37
New Zealand, Australian colleagues. You were only there but this is the sort of sick irony, isn't it
16:43
You were only there. You only went through what you and your friends went through
16:47
fighting a war on behalf of and alongside the United States of America
16:51
which now shows such disregard and disrespect for you. Afghanistan is never going to come back
16:57
It's going to be what it is forever. Yeah, it's quite cutting, actually
17:04
I think for most of the military community serving all retired. I'm retired now
17:11
But I think it's quite upsetting for them all. And you'd like to see a tougher response or a tougher defence of you
17:19
and what you went through from our government? Yes, sir, indeed. Yeah, I totally hear you, Garson
17:24
I'd like to see it too, my friend. Thank you very much indeed for the call. Gus in Portland
17:28
lots of calls coming in on this, more of those in just a moment I think in terms of me being offended
17:33
I'm going to say no so I'll just give you a couple of sentences
17:37
about me, I was in the army when I was 17 I deployed to Afghanistan
17:41
when I was 18, I was in the infantry I was a member of the machine guard, so we went in 2009
17:47
2010, out of our battle group we had seven died while we were over there
17:52
I can't remember the rough the exact number sorry but it was about 15 um other casualties which were amputees and
18:01
gunshot wounds so we were on the front line and in terms of me being offended
18:06
i would say no and i'll give you my give my why we are being criticized as veterans and serving
18:16
members of the armed forces by someone who was in kabul that wasn't even near the front line as
18:23
he's mentioned and then Donald Trump who avoided military service his father avoided military
18:30
service his grandfather avoided military service I cannot let these types of people offend me
18:40
because they're irrelevant and what I would say is anyone that's listening
18:47
that has been affected by the war in Afghanistan with regards to the British Armed Forces
18:55
whether that be a relative, family, friend, member that died, or you served there
19:02
these people are not worth your anger. And I really mean that
19:08
They're irrelevant to you. For me, I'm very passionate about what I did there
19:14
And it still lives with me, where are we now? 16 years on. I'm sure
19:19
And what I would say, with the members of government that may or may not speak
19:25
to the American government, please mention an individual called Josh Leakey. So I don't know if you know
19:33
who he is, Ben. He was a parachute, or he is a parachute, but he's a colour sergeant now
19:38
in the parachute regiment, served in Afghanistan, and he was awarded a Victoria Cross
19:42
for saving the lives of US Marines. mention him. I see what they say to that
19:50
Yeah. Tom, that's very... I don't know what the word is. It's very gracious of you
19:56
Because if I were you, I would be livid today and I would be sickened by what I heard from Peter Hegg said
20:01
They're not worth it. Even if they're the US Secretary of State for Defence
20:07
Again, they're not worth it. If they really think that and if they want to stand on their moral high ground
20:14
based on someone who's actively avoided any form of military service and then someone who's been to Afghanistan
20:20
And as you said, the time away he went, it wasn't anywhere near the front line
20:25
We know who the real cowards are, really. Yeah, it's irrelevant. Tom, I'm glad that it hasn't affected you in that way
20:32
And I hope it's some solace, at least, knowing that people on this side of the Atlantic appreciate
20:36
and understand and recognise and are grateful and respectful for everything that you and your friends and your comrades
20:41
went through in that war. If only the US administration felt the same way
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