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Kyiv has resumed strikes against Russian energy infrastructure after President Zelenskyy accused Donald Trump of betraying Ukraine by slowing down the speeds of a crucial internet system used to protect the war-torn nation.
Shelagh Fogarty is joined by John Foreman, Former UK Defence Attaché at British Embassy in Moscow (2019-2022) and in Kyiv (2008-2011) to discuss what Britain's response should be.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
President Zelensky, you know, because we spoke about it, met Andy Burnham yesterday and in comments variously throughout the day, he has said, you probably know some of this already if you listen to LBC this morning, the president of Ukraine has said that the U.S. is very starkly that the U.S. is withholding intelligence that helps Ukraine defend itself, is interrupting Starlink, Starshield, satellite systems, impeding Ukrainian operations
0:25
and Ukrainians are dying as a result of the decisions that Donald Trump is making
0:31
that President Zelensky says, and you can see why he says it, in favour of Vladimir Putin
0:37
Is it time that we in Britain, in the form of our prime minister
0:42
just said as much, said what's happening, which is that the US president, supposedly our ally in NATO
0:51
is betraying Ukraine. 0345 6060 973 the number to call you can text 84850 the Prime Minister Andy Burnham as you know
1:00
met President Zelensky yesterday it's clear to the world again who the aggressor is in this in
1:08
this conflict however in these moments Britain will continue to provide you with whatever support
1:15
that we can and today I'm announcing that we are accelerating the delivery of British made
1:22
air defenses for you and we will make sure that they're in place as soon as possible. I've also
1:28
asked all of our ministers here in the government to do whatever they can extra to support you and
1:36
we are looking at all possible avenues. So we're just pleased you are here to be able to show
1:43
you our support but through you all of the people of Ukraine have our support
1:49
Well, also in an exclusive interview yesterday on Piers Morgan Uncensored, President Zelensky was asked whether he feels betrayed by Donald Trump
1:58
Do you feel betrayed by what has been happening? Really, yes. Really, between us
2:07
But it's a little bit more complicated than just my emotions or my feelings
2:14
Yes, it depends not on me. I mean, our country has to survive
2:21
It's a pity that we are losing. We are losing strong partner
2:27
Well, I'm joined by John Foreman, former UK defence attaché at the British Embassy in Moscow and in Kiev as well
2:35
So a man who knows both countries well. Good afternoon to you. Thank you for joining me. I assume
2:41
President Zelensky is right, isn't he, when he says, it's not just my emotions about what I'm seeing that matter
2:47
This is more complex than that. And yet at one level, there is a simplicity to it, isn't there
2:52
You're either supporting Ukraine or you're not. Yeah, you could hear the hurt in President Zelensky's voice yesterday
3:00
Because it wasn just about yesterday it been about the last couple of weeks Ukraine suffered grievously at the hands of Russian missile attacks and drone attacks Across the country there been large numbers of philochisties large number of children
3:12
Of course, those images are being pumped into Ukrainian homes and to the president himself
3:18
And on top of that, then you have these eruptions from the other side of the Atlantic by President Trump
3:23
who's blaming Ukraine for basically defending itself, blaming President Zelensky for leaving a country at war and defending itself
3:30
and then signing dodgy deals with the Russian president, which won't actually affect anything to try and distract from his own incompetence
3:36
for launching a war in Iran. So I'm not surprised these words came out with Piers Morgan and yesterday
3:43
You could tell that the winter's coming, Russia's stepping up its attacks
3:49
and at the time in Ukraine's hour of need, the American president's gone walkabout
3:54
In the Commons yesterday, Andy Burnham was asked, isn't this just another example of Donald Trump's treachery
4:03
Now, and you may have heard Andy Burnham's response, you know, in my position as prime minister
4:09
I have to build bridges or rebuild bridges. And I understood why he answered in that way
4:17
And yet the truth is it's wholly inadequate, isn't it, really to the problem that Ukraine is facing
4:21
when it comes to Donald Trump's about turn. well i mean i i don't envy the prime minister he wants to focus on bus fares or whatever and now
4:29
he's got this major international issue that the american america who's been the backbone of our
4:35
defense for 75 80 years and has been seen and it presents itself as the home of the free and the
4:41
leader of the free world is not acting like that so i think you know we look at this immediate issue
4:47
of ukraine how do we support ukraine through the winter keep its skies safe how do we help its
4:52
civilians had we raised costs on russia but then the wider context is european leaders looking
4:57
askance at america saying all the assumptions we've made on our own defense over the last
5:03
80 years are they valid and then at the same time america's also conducting a review of its forces
5:09
in europe and what number of forces it keeps for the future i think all this behavior is going to
5:16
force Europe to hopefully wake up finally and actually do more for its own defence and security
5:23
which it's been reluctant to do for many years. And of course, its own defence and security
5:27
absolutely includes the defence of Ukraine. I know there are people who disagree with that, but..
5:33
No, I mean, I think there's two parts, I think, of this. Why does it matter to us
5:40
the Britain? It matters because Kiev is three and a half, four hours from here. There's a bloody war
5:45
going on we already hosted 300 000 ukrainians here opened our doors across europe and the money to
5:51
keep it going because we know if ukraine falls they'll make the east of europe in particular
5:56
incredibly unstable through refugees and also because russia will use ukraine to pull ships
6:04
forces further westwards and threaten more of europe so i think that practical matters and then on the other side it actually the principle of the thing We went to war twice in the last century because we disagreed the principle that might is right
6:18
that you can just stamp into another people's country and take it over. And the king said in 1939, if we allow this to happen
6:25
there will set a climate of fear not just over Europe but also around the world. So I think the British public understand that
6:32
I know people are on your phone and sometimes will shout at you, But I think if 75%, I think, percent of the public agree with that position, 25% are concerned
6:42
And also, if you look at polling about the number one threat to the UK, it's Russia. And I looked at the YouGov this morning
6:48
Clear of Iran, clear of terrorism, clear of everybody else. So it matters to us this
6:52
And I think the principal position the British government's taken of all flavours over the last four and a half years has been commendable
7:00
You talk about the 1930s. I mean, America was arguably slow to join that war and help in the defence of Europe, but it certainly wasn't actively supporting Hitler, was it, at the time
7:14
We now have a US president who arguably is doing that. Yeah, so I think President Trump has had a strange affinity and affection for President Putin for many years
7:27
I think he respects his Putin strongman style, the big to tough guy, and that Putin can say things and things happen within the system
7:37
But I think also there's animus towards Zelensky, both because Zelensky didn't launch an investigation to Biden during his first term
7:44
And of course, Zelensky is the obstacle. Trump sees it to peace because Trump promised peace before he became president
7:50
And that's not so that happened. So he can't be the peacemaker. And he didn't help him to get reelected. And he's getting away with better mates, but he being better with his friend Putin. So I think a lot of it does come from Trump himself. I heard Zelensky talk about Trump's advisers. But I think, you know, Trump is not surrounded by people who say no to him. He's surrounded by sycophants
8:12
So I think there's a lot of it's coming from the POTUS in his desperation to reclaim some of his popularity ahead of the elections in a couple of weeks time
8:21
And of course, there's a limit to what we can do. You know, we heard yesterday what we're doing, speeding up an offer that we've already made about defence missile systems. But should Western leaders like Andy Burnham and other European leaders be insisting, if they have the power to insist on anything from Donald Trump, for transparency about why the Starlink or Starshield satellite system, this intelligence that the US is, according to Zelensky, withholding from Ukraine
8:50
and impeding through that satellite system what they can do. Why aren't we pushing Trump on that for more transparency on it
8:59
but also in a tougher way? Is it pointless? Is he that powerful
9:04
No, I think, I've said before on the media, I don't think we want to enter a war of words
9:10
public slagging match with President Trump but I think it helps And that why I slightly concerned about the way that anger is becoming clear in president lense his voice and some things are coming out of but you know sometimes words matter and trump got a very thin skin so i would imagine that let do what we can
9:25
in public to support ukraine give it more arms at the european level working through the e3 which
9:32
is britain france germany um the coalition with the european european partners to do whatever we
9:38
can to help Ukraine in its hour of need. And let's work offline through our channels, the National
9:44
Security Advisor, through the British Embassy, into the system to find out what's going on and
9:48
to prevent it happening again. I think also to set out the Americans as a consequence of their
9:52
action. You know, they want to have, they say Europe is the critical national interest in the
9:58
United States. That's in their policy documents. But the way they're going about it is doing deep damage to America now and into the future, I think. But I absolutely understand diplomacy and care with
10:07
words and what you say in public versus what you say in private. I think everybody understands that
10:13
But what we're seeing here is an American president who appears to be actively betraying
10:19
Ukraine in a way that leaves Ukrainian people and men, women and children dead
10:24
We see him saying openly, the president openly, that, you know, you talk about President Zelensky's
10:31
words. President Trump said just yesterday, I think he, Zelensky, is the one in the way of peace
10:38
President Putin wants it more. I mean, it's the, you know, the inverse is true, isn't it? And yet
10:44
he says that. And we're asking Zelensky to temper his words. Shouldn't we be pushing Trump more
10:51
Or are we private? I'm sure we are. And I think the Prime Minister made that point clear
10:58
But I think the problem is we're all between a rock and a hard place because there's lots of talk in Europe that we, Europeans
11:05
can stand and put our own defence down and we just get rid of the American strategic autonomy
11:09
But I think, you know, I heard the president of Lithuania tell me, you know, that's not a decade away, at least a decade away
11:14
So we're heavily entwined with America through finance, through trade, through defence, security
11:22
the ultimate guarantee of our security for NATO. and trying to wish these things away won't happen so we have to manage this problem you know
11:30
there's a lot of stormy weather coming across the atlantic the direction of the president united
11:36
states we just have to pour i think manage our way through this poor oil and troubled waters
11:41
sometimes we have to go with the with the storm sometimes we have to ride it out we're just going
11:45
to have to try and keep the ship at an even keel for the next couple of years or at least until
11:49
november we see what happens in the senate and house of representatives and then perhaps that
11:54
provide some sort of check and balance on Trump's misbehaviour. But I think it's also interesting
11:59
for me is the reaction inside the United States. I lived in Washington. I worked in the Pentagon
12:04
This is not a Trumpian America versus us. This is very much the way that Trump is behaving. And
12:10
Republican voices in the Senate are pushing back heavily about what's happened with Star
12:15
Lincoln, sort of general incompetence, the clown show, which is coming out of the Washington president. Well, that's a drop of optimism there you leave us with. Thank you very much
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