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Wes Streeting has been 'reassured' by US Secretary of War Pete Hegseth that Ukraine's access to Starlink satellites has been restored following restrictions to the service.
The UK Defence Secretary said he invoked St Francis of Assisi in his efforts to "bring harmony" between Washington and Kyiv amid what Ukraine said was a "politically motivated" decision to restrict access.
Mr Streeting said Mr Hegseth had assured him Starlink was back up and running, although it remained unclear what had caused the disruption, amid renewed tensions between the US and Ukraine.
Shelagh Fogarty speaks to Dr Thomas Withington, Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, about what Starlink and Starshield are, and what was behind the issue.
#shelaghfogarty #donaldtrump #elonmusk #ukraine #russia #starlink #uspolitics #worldnews #lbc
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0:00
Well, I'm joined by Dr. Thomas Withington, an Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services
0:04
Institute, known as RUSI, specialising in electronic warfare, radar and military communications
0:10
It's probably, good afternoon to you, first of all, it's probably worth starting, isn't it, by talking about what Starlink and Starshield are. So Starlink is the sort of civilian level
0:20
use of satellite, but tell us more about it and then Starshield. Well, good afternoon, Sheila. It's great to be with you today. So Starlink and Starshield
0:27
what are they? Well, imagine your smartphone, my smartphone, we all use and we all rely on them
0:35
And what we get with our smartphones is we get an incredible level of connectivity. So we get a very
0:39
wide pipe through which a lot of data and a lot of things can flow from our phones to the outside
0:44
world and vice versa. Except when we use that phone, we need to have a cell phone tower or
0:50
something like that nearby. Now, imagine you've got that same level of connectivity, all those
0:55
wonderful things that you can do, but you're using a satellite as the means of carrying that signal
1:00
So what that means effectively, what Starlink and Starshield allows you to do is move a huge amount
1:06
of data, a huge amount of information across very long distances without much degradation to the
1:12
service. So it's an incredibly capable system. Starshield is the militarized version of it. So
1:18
what that means in principle is it has a level of encryption that has like a military grade of
1:23
encryption. So it's very difficult to either intercept that traffic or to jam that traffic
1:28
And Starlink, as you mentioned in your question, it's like the civilian version, which is still
1:32
encrypted, but not to the same kind of level of intensity, one could say. So in battlefield and
1:40
battle conditions, whether that be an attempt to stop missiles coming into Kiev or battle conditions
1:46
on the eastern border between Ukraine and Russia. Star Shield is a major advantage to whoever has use of it
1:55
It is indeed. Yes, it's a highly capable system. It is very secure
1:59
That's one of the key attributes that it has, as well as being able to carry a lot of traffic
2:05
So within the Ukrainian theatre of operations, it has become absolutely essential, really
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Star Link doesn't operate over Russia at the moment because Mr. Musk made it unavailable to Russia earlier on this year
2:19
But it certainly is active over large parts of Ukraine. It's proven very useful indeed, not just to the Ukrainian military
2:25
but to Ukrainian civilians as well. And the bottom line is, isn't it, that the ability is that both really
2:32
but certainly Starshield in a very particular way, as you've described, gives Ukraine the ability to see what's coming
2:38
and therefore the ability to protect people from what's coming. It does, but I would argue that the key thing that it does actually is it provides you with the connectivity you need to effectively know what's going on on the battlefield
2:54
So because you can move a lot of data across Starlink and Starshield that translates into information and information is knowledge on the battlefield And when you say data do you mean communications rather than missions
3:06
It's a really good question that, yeah, data is everything from video pictures
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still pictures, a conversation like you and I are having, written information, you name it
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If you can turn it into zeros and ones, it becomes data and you can move it with Starlink
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Now, what this means for the commander on the ground is that they get an unprecedented
3:24
implemented idea of basically what is going on. And by having the richness of information
3:30
hopefully this allows you to take better decisions quicker than the bad folks
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so the Russians in this case. And am I right in saying that Star Shield, the military grade version, was designed for the Pentagon
3:46
Correct. Yes, it was a United States Department of Defense initiative. The US DOD became very
3:53
interested in what Starlink could do for understandable reasons. But this militarised
3:58
version sort of adds that level of security to the system so it can be used on a battlefield
4:05
So sorry to get Miss Marple on you, but if Star Shield suddenly slows down
4:12
that's less likely to be Elon Musk's activities and more likely to be Pentagon White House
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activities. I'm delighted you mentioned Miss Marple. This has never happened in an interview
4:22
with me before, but you're absolutely right. Yes. I mean, effectively, the Pentagon has ownership
4:27
over Starshield. So how it decides to use it is largely up to the Department of Defence
4:33
but you're absolutely right. Yes. I'm straying a little from your expertise here, but if Donald
4:41
Trump gave the order, Reuters are reporting that the order to slow down Starshield came from inside
4:50
the White House. If that's the case, then that is a very deliberate attempt to weaken Ukraine's
5:00
position in this war. And that is a very serious moment, isn't it, in this war between NATO
5:05
of which the US is clearly a leading partner, and him and the rest of NATO, him and Ukraine
5:14
NATO and Ukraine. How many more moments like this can that alliance take, do you think
5:23
It's an excellent question. I think what we've seen since the second Trump administration is a
5:28
seesawing of that administration's position regarding backing Ukraine. Which I thought West Streeting sounded rather relaxed about in that clip we played, didn't they
5:38
Oh, they've fallen out a couple of times before. Well, I think what's interesting with this is that knowing the Ukrainians, I've been privileged to visit the country several times and see Ukrainian defense innovation in action
5:52
What we will see is the Ukrainians will eventually develop a workaround of some sort for Starlink and Starshield Now it probably won be a single technology but it will be an amalgamation of other communication systems that are developed in Ukraine that are provided by
6:07
European allies that will make good that shortfall. Because each time this happens, you see a Ukrainian
6:12
reaction. Patriot missiles, for instance, very important for ballistic missile interception in
6:17
Ukraine. We see the supplies diminishing and immediately there is a Ukrainian bid to develop
6:22
something domestically that can do that task. And we'll see that happening again
6:26
Which Witten is helping it with, isn't it? With design? Correct. Yes, absolutely. And each time we see one of these sort of diplomatic manoeuvrings
6:37
from the Trump administration, we do see a corresponding reaction to degrade the effectiveness
6:42
of that manoeuvring from the Ukrainian government. And I think that dynamic will just continue
6:47
It struck me this morning hearing President Zelensky saying how pleased he was to be amongst his EU partners and supporters and referred to them as real leaders
7:02
I mean, he is, you know, he's clearly not taking the kind of cool blooded British approach to diplomacy here, is he
7:11
He's trying to stick the boot in a bit there. And you can kind of understand why
7:16
It might not be wise, but you can understand why. I think it's the interesting thing with diplomacy that invariably it is a multi-armed beast, if you like
7:25
So on one hand, you have, as you mentioned, Mr. Streeting is sounding a little bit more sanguine about the situation
7:30
But on the other hand, you have Mr. Zelensky sounding more robust. And I think that's often a feature of what you get
7:36
You know, there's a multi-pronged approach here to ensure that the US stays in the tent
7:41
The US understands that supporting Ukraine is absolutely essential. It's essential for the US's own security as well, not just the European question
7:49
And this is a sort of multi-pronged approach to getting to that strategic end state, if you will
7:56
And I was reading this morning that the Starlink, so the lower grade, still incredibly impressive
8:01
but the civilian grade satellite link, Starlink, is made up of 10,000 active satellites
8:09
So the largest satellite system anywhere. indeed you can sometimes see them zooming across the sky which i've done in the past you'll see
8:18
the string of satellites and yes it's a global constellation and one of the intentions behind it
8:23
was to provide kind of the world's population with this wide band amazing internet access so
8:30
wherever you are you could access the web do whatever you need to do so that's how it started
8:36
life but the military utility of that became immediately obvious and ukraine just kind of
8:41
supercharged that I think even further. Should Wes Streeting have asked outright of Pete Hegseth
8:47
you know, he can take a bit of roughing up, asked outright why the Starlink or Starshield was stopped
8:55
was slowed down, why that decision was taken? I think without being in meetings it very hard to know what path that conversation took But I think Well he said they didn get into that Yeah I mean I think that generally speaking what important for NATO as an alliance
9:12
obviously, which Britain is a member of, is to continually remind the US of the importance of the Ukrainian struggle
9:20
the US understands and the US government understands it faces its own security challenges
9:26
from Russia and from Mr Putin's government and the Ukraine situation is part and parcel of that
9:31
so I think despite all of the shenanigans this week with you know diesel prices whatever it might be
9:37
there is a need if you like for NATO to keep the pressure on not just for the sake of Europe's own
9:43
security but for the US as well and keep the pressure on who on Trump on the on the Trump
9:49
administration, I think, you know, and to be fair, there are a lot of people in Mr. Trump's party who
9:54
get it with Ukraine. They really do. And they're very, very supportive of it
9:58
But he's the commander in chief and he can do what he likes most of the time, can't he? He is indeed the commander in chief. That's correct
10:05
If he, I mean, I'm kind of half reassured by so many people being sanguine in the face of this
10:11
but I'm also still worried about him and what else he might do. And, you know, the serious
10:16
very serious matter, is that it threatens the lives of Ukrainian people. So if the US
10:20
tampers with this again or withdraws Ukraine's access to Starlink or Starshield again
10:27
surely there comes a point where that is a serious threat to our allegiance to the United States
10:32
And therefore, people like Wes Streeting may have to be a bit more blunt in his conversations with
10:38
Hegsiv. It's a good point. I mean, obviously, behind closed doors, it's hard to know exactly
10:42
what's happening. But I think, yes, there is a debate to be had here about what does US support
10:50
if you like, of European NATO look like now. Now, remember, Trump has a finite term, you know
10:57
at some point he leaves office and things and even if there is another Republican victory
11:00
that will be different and it will have a different complexion. But I think and I would
11:05
I don't know, but I would wager that probably behind closed doors, we do hear much firmer
11:10
language perhaps one could say than what's sometimes articulated publicly um as i say i'm
11:16
not i'm not privy to that but i think what it underscores actually with your question is
11:20
also europe has to be very cognizant that there are capabilities we will just have to develop
11:25
ourselves and ensure that we have them unilaterally exclusive of the us what's that saying we've all
11:31
heard from our mothers necessity is the mother of invention is that what we're looking at here
11:36
with America necessarily. It is. And often, sadly, one of the factors of warfare
11:41
is it rapidly accelerates innovation and it concentrates minds. Thank you. It's been very interesting and very informative as well
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to talk to you. Thank you very much indeed, Dr. Thomas Withington, an Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute
11:56
specialising in electronic warfare, radar and military communications. I hope you think you know
12:00
I feel you know a lot more about Starlink and Starshield
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