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James O'Brien reacts as Downing Street condemns US Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth for downplaying the UK's role in Afghanistan.
No10 said the US Secretary of State for War was "wrong" when he said just one or two nations took part in combat operations.
It comes after the US vice President JD Vance sparked a similar row after his comments about Nato allies in March.
And Donald Trump apologised and clarified comments he made after a backlash, when he questioned NATO's reliability, and said they'd stayed away from front lines.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
#jamesobrien #trump #donaldtrump #petehegseth #afghanistan #politics #LBC
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0:00
The temptation, the desire, the need almost to actually try to understand things happening in America
0:09
happening in Donald Trump's regime, actually. It's confined to that, of course
0:14
There's a mystery about how his approval ratings, although historically low, can still stand at 33%
0:20
Are these people conscious? Are they sentient? Are they sort of human fungus
0:27
I don't know. maybe there's still some time to be spent or some purpose to be served by trying to work out
0:34
what on earth is wrong with them but the the habit of trying to work out why Donald Trump
0:41
is doing what he's doing is an almost impossible habit to break all I can say to you with confidence
0:48
is if you want to know what Vladimir Putin wants have a look at what Donald Trump is doing
0:54
and that of course extends to his closest acolytes. Some of them, for shame
0:59
knew exactly what was going to happen when he got into power because when they were standing against him
1:04
during his run for the first term, they said so out loud
1:09
Some of those people went on to become his closest political allies
1:16
even the one whose own wife was roundly abused by Donald Trump on several occasions in public
1:23
So I don't know what to do with this impulse. It's like an itch that I can't scratch
1:29
Why are they doing it? Do you suffer from this at all? If you listen to this program, you must suffer from it a bit
1:35
Why? Why? I want to know why things happen. Like that little kid
1:40
Why, Dad? Why? But why? And eventually someone's going to say, because I say so
1:46
That sort of infernal curiosity. That's where all the good stuff comes from, you know
1:51
if you do not understand a problem you can never fix it i think trump's the exception that proves
1:57
that rule i don't think we'll ever know why i mean how shocked would you be if it emerged that
2:03
he had been blackmailed by vladimir putin for the duration of both his administrations and then how
2:08
shocked would you be to discover that he hadn't been he'd just been bribed or how shocked would
2:13
you be to discover that he hadn't been blackmailed or bribed he was just so uh smitten with the idea
2:19
of being a dictator in the style of Vladimir Putin or I always get the name of the Chinese
2:26
leader wrong. So I try not to say it. And then I noticed that I haven't said it. And you
2:29
pointed out to me, but he just he envies the North Korean dictator. He envies Kim Jong Un
2:39
Those are your three options. Why Donald Trump has done the disgusting things that he's done
2:44
most recently the utter and abject betrayal of Ukraine, of the Ukrainian people. Why has he done
2:52
it? I think there's three options. He's doing it for the money, the full extent of which will only
2:58
emerge in subsequent years to come. He's doing it out of fear of exposure by Vladimir Putin
3:04
who has something on him, or he is simply driven by a desire to be an untrammeled dictator in the
3:11
style of most obviously Vladimir Putin who seems to be oh we know he's Nigel Farage's hero Xi Jinping
3:21
the Chinese leader might might be Donald Trump's he seems to admire the bones of both of them and
3:27
there I'm doing it I'm doing it again eight minutes after 11 we should have an alarm I'm not actually
3:32
trying to yze it I'm just reminding you of what the three possibilities are and I'd do it as a
3:37
as a three-way split, 33 and a third percent on each of them, or rather 33.333333333 recurring
3:43
chances of it being blackmail, bribery, or just simple greed, or rather envy, blackberry, bribery
3:50
or greed. The betrayal of Ukraine we find ourselves talking about today, the betrayal
3:58
of Ukraine. So resist the urge, perhaps, as we turn our attention to Pete Hegseth, his
4:06
idiot Secretary of State for Defense, his idiot Defense Secretary, attacking allies
4:14
attacking the United States allies, downplaying the role of NATO allies in helping the US with
4:20
combat operations in Afghanistan. Do you know it's worth thinking about that in the context of Ukraine
4:27
The war in Afghanistan was a consequence of the terrorist attack on the Twin Towers And the United States of America sent out a clarion call to its allies around the globe for help in that war
4:41
And the United States allies answered in their droves, and many of whom, or members of the armed forces of those countries
4:52
many of those countries, made the ultimate sacrifice. I think per capita, Denmark lost more service personnel in Afghanistan than any other country, including the United States of America
5:04
Per capita, the United Kingdom lost 457 people on duty in Afghanistan
5:13
But the point I want to make is a contrast with Ukraine. When Ukraine asked America for help, Joe Biden agreed but could have gone further
5:26
Donald Trump has now reached the point where his answer is no. I'm on the other guy's side
5:31
That's what I mean when I talk about the guardrails, that the invisible guardrails of civilization and decency
5:40
I think we were right to go to war in Afghanistan, less so the second Gulf War
5:46
and the failure of what happened doesn't make the original decision to do it wrong
5:51
but the difference between how the world responded to America's plea for help and support
6:02
and how Donald Trump's America is today responding to Volodymyr Zelensky's plea
6:09
Ukraine's plea for health and support both victims of hideous crimes one under the guise of islamist terrorism one under the guise
6:19
of imperialist war crimes think about it listen if you're a historian and you think i've got this
6:25
completely wrong send me a polite message by text please uh and advise me on how to steer away from
6:30
this hazardous course because i like this but i don't like it i buy it i buy this parallel
6:35
The reason why 457 British people died on duty in Afghanistan is because our government answered the American request for help and support
6:49
And today, Donald Trump is responding to the ongoing Ukrainian request for help and support by not only telling them to get stuffed
7:00
but also siding with the man who's killing them, including just in the last 24 hours
7:07
two children who were, well, one child who was in a pushchair in a park
7:13
three dead, two women and a child in a pushchair, died, at least 14 other injured
7:18
after a Russian drone hit a park in Ukraine. I don't know if you've heard the clip of him yesterday
7:25
saying that things weren't that bad, that Russia hadn't been that bad in regard to Ukraine
7:31
an extraordinary intervention from the president of the United States of America when you see it in
7:36
the context of how the rest of the world, particularly America's closest allies, responded
7:42
to their request for help and support in Afghanistan. I'll play you that shortly
7:50
but I want to play you a couple of other things first. I want to remind you what Donald Trump said
7:54
about NATO troops, and that includes us. And remember, after Donald Trump said this, his
8:00
cheerleaders in this country, whether in politics or the media, continued to cheerlead for him
8:06
Dick Littlejohn at the Daily Mail continued to call for him to be in charge of this country
8:11
while berating Keir Starmer for not joining Trump's ludicrous war in Iran, which Nigel Farage and
8:17
Kemi Badenow felt that he should have done. This was after Donald Trump had committed the ultimate
8:22
insult directed at the men and the women and the families thereof who had made the ultimate
8:28
sacrifice, 457 of them, died on duty in a war that they joined as a consequence of NATO
8:41
membership and the United States need for support, request for support. This is how Donald Trump described those people at the beginning of this year
8:54
We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them
8:59
You know, they'll say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that. And they did
9:03
They stayed a little back a little off the front lines But we been very good to Europe and to many other countries And now under my administration that began because we had a very successful
9:17
first term that began then, but it has to be a two-way street
9:22
You know, Fiona Hill, who's Russia advisor during that first term, has told a congressional
9:27
committee about the conversations regarding Putin letting Trump help himself to Venezuela
9:34
if Trump would let Putin help himself to Ukraine and look at what has transpired subsequently
9:40
I don't know why some things make you angrier than others. That makes my blood boil, that clip
9:47
The betrayal of Ukraine is immense, absolutely immense. It's epochal. It's impossible to convey what an appalling moment this is
9:53
in Western history. Donald Trump siding with Vladimir Putin. But that there, that was such a big alarm bell, wasn't it
10:01
It was such a big canary down the coal mine. And don't forget Farage and Badenoch, never mind the two bit columnists, Farage and Badenoch stayed on his side
10:12
After this, sided with him and his ludicrous war in Iran against the British Prime Minister after he'd done this, after he'd said those terrible, terrible things
10:25
and yesterday or rather on saturday it's not great audio this so pay attention
10:31
his idiot defense secretary p hegseth said this i was a captain in afghanistan and we would go to
10:39
headquarters in cabo and there would be 50 flags at the headquarters and it was a beautiful thing
10:43
to see 50 different countries contributed to the NATO alliance and the ISAF mission there
10:48
except there were like maybe five that contributed it was actually closer one or two that actually
10:53
by the end were actually involved in genetic operations. In fact, the patch I sat would joke that it meant I saw Americans fighting
11:02
which is sort of a joke, but it's demoralizing when you feel like it's not burden sharing
11:09
it's actually a burden. Pete Hayes, who served as a Minnesota Army National Guard instructor in Afghanistan
11:17
insulting British military, insulting British military, six months after his boss insulted British war dead. And this is Donald Trump yesterday talking
11:32
about his new ally, because as he insults the old allies in January and Pete Hegseth insults
11:40
the current allies today, Donald Trump has made it crystal clear who his new ally is. And you're
11:47
not going to hear a more disturbing contribution to discourse surrounding the war in Ukraine
11:52
than this one, until, of course, the next one. Have you agreed to a trilateral meeting with President Xi and Xi talk about Ukraine
12:00
No, but I would do it. Not so much for Ukraine, because Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine
12:08
They haven't been doing much. And the same thing with China. We would have it to talk about nuclear weapons and denuclearization
12:15
They haven't been doing much. a kid in a pushchair was killed yesterday a child in a pushchair was good they haven't been doing
12:23
just think about that for one nanosecond they haven't been doing my listen to it again because
12:30
i think i might be sick have you agreed to a trilateral meeting with president
12:34
but i would i would do it not so much for ukraine because russia frankly has been
12:42
fine on Ukraine, they haven't been doing much. And the same thing with China
12:47
We would have it to talk about nuclear weapons and denuclearization. Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine
12:57
Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much
13:06
Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much
13:12
Boris Johnson defends Donald Trump over the 6th of January capital riots and Ukraine claims
13:16
Hysterical reactions to Trump's re-election only alienate voters. Someone called Zoe Strimple in the Daily Telegraph
13:24
Trump derangement syndrome is over. His haters have finally grown up, writes someone called Brendan O'Neill, also in the Daily Telegraph
13:30
The real problem with the anti-Trump protesters? They're so embarrassing, writes someone called Tom Slater in the Daily Telegraph
13:36
Nigel Farage claims Donald Trump learned a lot from me That possibly true actually which is by no means guaranteed where Nigel Farage is concerned And Suella Braverman says she would vote for Donald Trump as the world would be safer
13:49
Reese Mogg tells young Tories he wants to build a wall in the English Channel and would vote for
13:53
Donald Trump if he could. Play the clip again, Keith. Have you agreed to a trilateral meeting
13:58
with President and Chief to talk about Ukraine? No, but I would do it. Not so much for Ukraine
14:04
because Russia, frankly, has been fine on Ukraine. They haven't been doing much
14:10
And the same thing with China. We would have it to talk about nuclear weapons and denuclearization
14:16
I want to know what it's like to have been in the military
14:21
and to have been an ally of the United States of America
14:25
You don't have to have served in Afghanistan, although obviously your contribution will be more powerful if you did
14:30
and to hear both in January, the president of the United States of America
14:35
and in October, and indeed this week, this weekend, the idiot defense secretary
14:42
describing you and your comrades, some of whom fell, describing you and your comrades as cowards, as people who didn't really..
14:52
I just want to know what it does to you and what it does to your understanding of the rules of engagement
14:57
and what it does to your... I hope it doesn't dent even a tiny..
15:02
It can't dent your pride. How dare I even suggest that? But I want to know what it means to you
15:09
to hear this happen. What does it do moving forward to NATO
15:16
And this is where the resistance to... The urge to yse, why are they attacking NATO
15:23
Just ask yourself, what does Vladimir Putin want? and you will see Donald Trump's regime doing it
15:28
But I want to know from service personnel, past and possibly present if you're allowed to talk to me
15:34
I just want to know how this lands with you. The idiot defence secretary and the hideous president
15:47
attacking America's allies in Afghanistan, saying they didn't really pull their weight
15:54
saying they stayed back from the front, saying that they didn't really do anything
15:58
How do 457 people die doing nothing? What does this mean in the context of your service
16:07
in the context of your understanding of alliances, your understanding of NATO
16:13
I don't want to hear from anyone who hasn't served. I make no apology for that
16:17
And I appreciate that I'm including myself in this conversation, But I'm just here to invite you on and tell me what does this mean to you
16:27
I know that it's a little bit simplistic. I know it's a little bit two dimensional
16:31
I know that America is a flawed, massively flawed country. I know that the CIA has done terrible things in foreign countries, but we all live in the shadow of the Second World War
16:41
We all live in the freedom secured as a consequence of defying the Nazis
16:48
And we couldn't have done that really without the help of Frederick Delano Roosevelt's America, a country that feels a million miles away from Donald Trump's
16:57
But he's still, of course, the same country. But what does it do to hear our ally, the president of the country that we sent troops to Afghanistan to support and to help and to fight
17:11
deriding our contribution, deriding your comrades, deriding their sacrifice. Again, I'm not going to say, I am going to say, I am going to say it
17:23
I can't believe it. And I sometimes sit here reading the people saying
17:27
oh, Trump derangement syndrome, or the politicians say, well, we've got to join forces with him in Iran, or we can't afford to upset
17:34
And I just wonder what planet they inhabit. I mean, Farage is probably beyond ysis, but Bader not
17:41
What's she playing at? And now you see, it was so bloody obvious who he was, what he stood for
17:49
I don't think I would quite have conceded that he would eventually side with Putin against Zelensky in public
17:59
But God, you could see that it was going to happen in private. But this goes further back
18:06
This goes all the way back to Afghanistan. And it invites the question
18:10
You served. How does it feel to hear your allies describing you as cowards
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