0:00
The NATO summit in Turkey has not begun harmoniously
0:04
Donald Trump has continued pushing on Greenland, saying it should be controlled by the United States
0:08
and added, we could remove all of our soldiers out of Europe
0:12
But many European countries have been talking together about creating their own defence system
0:17
I'm joined now by Rose Gottemmuller, a former Deputy Secretary of NATO
0:21
and before that, somebody who served in the Obama White House. I think they have come around to that view
0:27
particularly in the last year, as it's become clear that the United States is turning its back
0:36
on Europe, even to the extent of not providing these key enablers that the United States has
0:42
always provided, such as intelligence support from satellite reconnaissance, such as tanker
0:48
aircraft for fighter jets. These are big, expensive items that the United States has always provided
0:54
for. But the Trump administration has made it clear it's up to the Europeans now. And this was
0:59
a really short, sharp shock for the Europeans. But I do think that they've stepped up. I've heard
1:06
from Mark Rutte, the secretary general of NATO, that he even sees the Europeans investing now in
1:13
these expensive items and being better prepared than anyone could have expected
1:18
So you think the once unthinkable which is that NATO European members of NATO without the United States might have to have been a conflict with Russia by themselves and do all right is now possible In the end of the day I don think that the United States will remove itself from NATO And
1:39
I do think that the United States would participate if there were a Russian invasion of Europe. I
1:46
think the United States would be there. The Trump administration has also been clear about that
1:51
message. But I think that the Europeans are realizing now that the United States is not
1:56
going to be the kind of military cash cow it's been in the past where they could depend on the
2:01
United States for being the big, solid investments, and they could stand behind and ride on the U.S
2:07
coattails. So I think, frankly, that's been a positive result of Trump's temper tantrums
2:13
from my perspective. Given the temper tantrums and the huge geopolitical shift we've seen
2:19
Does that mean that at some point before long, Europe is going to have to think about its own nuclear defenses as well
2:26
I think, to be honest with you, that as we can see from these wars that are going on now, not only in Ukraine, but also in the Middle East, that nuclear deterrence is somewhat overrated
2:38
nuclear weapons have not prevented the Ukrainians from attacking even the Russian nuclear bomber
2:44
force, and it hasn't prevented the Israelis from being attacked even by non-state actors
2:49
such as the Houthis. So, I think we should consider that matter as well
2:54
But in the end of the day it clear that the Europeans are thinking about bolstering the extended nuclear deterrent by supporting cooperation continued cooperation between the UK and France the other nuclear weapon states in NATO
3:07
And also France seems to be taking now more of a responsible role in extending its nuclear
3:15
deterrent capabilities also to other European allies such as Germany, which in historical
3:20
terms is quite remarkable. It is extraordinary. Another extraordinary thing that's happened ahead of this summit is the success of Ukraine
3:29
as you are suggesting, not just in hitting deep into Russia, but actually pushing the
3:33
Russians back quite close to the front line. Do you think that has changed in any sense Donald Trump's view of Zelensky and Ukraine
3:41
Well, we'll see at this summit, because they are due to meet at this summit
3:46
But I will say that Trump has been speaking much more admiringly of Zelensky and of the
3:52
Ukrainians. Famously, in February of 2025, he told Zelensky that he would not win the war
3:58
that he had no cards. But now he seems to have changed his view quite a bit. So I'm very curious
4:04
to see what unfolds. Zelensky very much wants Patriot air defense missiles and needs them
4:11
desperately because of the Russian ballistic missile attacks on Ukrainian cities, including
4:16
on Kyiv. So, I think that we will see if Trump is ready both to support Zelensky, but also to
4:23
really put some major U assets at his disposal That would probably not amount to patriot interceptors coming in large numbers from the United States but perhaps a licensing deal so that Ukraine could build its own
4:37
Well, that would be a very, very big moment indeed. Finally, can I ask you a more domestic question
4:42
As is now well known, Britain has not spent quite as much on increasing its defences as
4:48
Donald Trump and indeed NATO have asked for. And we lost our defence secretary not long ago because of that
4:54
How much of an embarrassment do you think that's going to be for Zakir Starmer in his final NATO meeting
5:00
I'm frankly afraid that Trump will really target Starmer directly on this account
5:08
Obviously, Trump is looking for ways to grab headlines. He always does, repeating the Greenland line again, always looking for ways to get to the top headlines
5:18
And he's doing it again. And so I think he'll be looking for ways to dominate the headlines in the UK as well by going after the prime minister
5:27
How much of a challenge is that going to be, do you think, for our new prime minister, Andy Burnham
5:31
He's only a few weeks away from taking over. Yes, it's difficult for me to say
5:37
And I know that there's a special election just been called, Neil Farage having left his parliamentary post
5:45
So it's a confusing picture looking at it from California. But I do think that it will have to be a complete priority, a super priority for the new prime minister coming in, getting the defense plans and budget defense plans worked out by the UK government
