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Shelagh Fogarty is joined by Professor Sir Lawrence Freedman to discuss Hunter Biden's claim that Trump is an 'existential threat' to the entire globe.
Speaking on Tonight with Andrew Marr, Biden said he believed Trump represented the biggest global crisis since the Second World War, adding: "I believe that Donald Trump is an existential threat to not just our constitutional republic, but to all of NATO and for the entire globe."
Joe Biden's son said American politics had become a "full-on 24/7 shouting match" and warned that the country's future "does not look bright" - unless "we find our way back."
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0:00
Well, existential is a very large claim because it suggests it's irrecoverable
0:06
And I'm not quite sure we're there yet. I think it's more useful to try to divide up the different ways in which Trump has done damage
0:17
And there might be areas where there might be positive elements as well
0:22
But the damage is, which is clearly the one preoccupying Hunter Biden at the moment
0:27
is what will happen in early November with the midterm elections. Trump has received a number of recent blows in terms of his efforts
0:39
to make it harder for Democrats to vote, including mail-in voting. So it's really a question if the Democrats do as well as many people expect them to do
0:54
will that be allowed to stand? I think he'd find it really difficult to stop it
1:01
But I know many Americans who are concerned about that. And I think generally the way that the administration has conducted it
1:10
Trump himself has conducted it himself, challenges the idea that this is the leader of the free world
1:17
that this is the country that sets the terms and the standards and the norms
1:21
for the democratic world, because it's clearly strange and erratic and sometimes downright obnoxious behaviour
1:32
We saw on January the 6th, didn't we, that in 2020, was it
1:38
2020. We saw then the lengths he'll go to to try to stay in power
1:44
or to regain power that he's just lost. So I think it's not beyond the realms of possibility
1:49
that he'll try some kind of trickery, is it, in November? Yes, I mean, I think the difficulty is there's lots and lots of elections in the midterms, statewide as well as federal elections
2:02
And you can't, and basically, and people have come up with a way in which this might be tried
2:10
Somehow or other you got to prevent the newly elected congressmen and women taking their seats that would be a very difficult thing to do and I think the courts would intervene and essentially somehow you got to enforce it
2:28
and that may mean the spectacle of somehow the National Guard or troops or something
2:35
being put in there to essentially mount a coup. That's different from January the 6th. Yes
2:39
much more. I mean, Trump might have liked to have done that on January 6th, but there's
2:44
been more serious. So I think it would be hard. Nobody would dare wholly predict what
2:53
he might do or would be surprised if these things aren't being thought about. But I think
2:59
practically it would be actually quite problematic. And I think there's plenty of other things
3:03
to worry about before we get to that stage. And on to the question of him as a global threat comparative to other leaders
3:13
I mean, a few others came to my mind as more worrying to me personally
3:17
just as a normal citizen than Donald Trump. I mean, he's alarming for sure
3:21
And he's been even more alarming in the second term than he was. But I don't find him as, maybe I'm wrong
3:28
but I've never found him as sinister and concerning as a few others I could think of
3:34
Well, I mean, I think one would say that the longer term challenges to the West are from Russia and from China, possibly Iran
3:46
And then you, so the basic question then becomes, how has Trump facilitated them, blocked them, made life more difficult for them
3:55
And I think the worrying aspect of his presidency is he's made life easier for them, even with Iran, which he's battered and attacked and so on
4:06
There's a hardline government in Iran, more hardline than the one even before
4:12
And at the moment, this is the expense of the global economy
4:16
So he's taken on a country that one could accept as being hostile to the West, but he's actually ended up strengthening them
4:27
You answered the question I was about to ask really because he and his supporters insist that and I would include Israel on this when it comes to the Iran question they insist that although the regime a regime is still there it still the same they still oppressing their people that their military power has been materially weakened
4:51
Are you saying their strength now comes not entirely from, but largely from the Hormuz situation
4:56
So the military power has undoubtedly been depleted. They barely have a navy and so on and so forth
5:03
It doesn't stop them doing things. It hasn't affected, I mean, the Strait of Hormuz is still closed
5:12
They've backed the Houthis who've taken over much of Yemen. And the point about the IRGC, the Revolutionary Guards in Iran
5:24
is they've taken advantage of this situation to strengthen their political position within Tehran
5:29
Remember, not long before the war broke out, they'd already slaughtered thousands of their people
5:36
Forty is the latest estimate, isn't it? There's very few people doubt they'd prepared to slaughter more
5:43
So that's why they've been able to hold on to power. And because Trump, understandably, isn't prepared to use ground forces and probably couldn't to try to actually take over Iran
5:54
even though they've lost some kit some equipment some missiles some boats they're still in a pretty
6:03
strong position internally now i think there are big weaknesses in iran and the economy
6:07
in particular 90 inflation it's pretty it's why we saw a different demographic protesting isn't it
6:13
before the american yeah but but those who protested are cowed at the moment
6:19
because they face terrible consequences for the past protests. So this could break
6:26
I mean, I don't think the Iranian position is tenable over the long term
6:30
but for the moment, enormous damage is being done to the international economy
6:36
And that's because of a misapprehension of the problem, impulsive decision to go to war
6:45
and no idea how to get out of it at the moment. And then just to continue I think the alliance system that the US built up over decades that dealt with the threats from Russia the threats from China is now fraying is under pressure because of basically Trump disinterest in acting on behalf of allies
7:12
the challenges he's posed to NATO in terms of threats to Canada, threats to Greenland and so on
7:21
Now, this may have some positive sides in Europe, and that Europe learns to do more for itself and so on
7:28
But it does represent a bit. It's time, isn't it? 80 years on from World War II, it's time, isn't it
7:33
No, I think it's a serious time. I think we've been through lots of other crises since that at the time
7:42
seemed probably closer to World War III. and I think that there are dangers here
7:51
and particularly for us in Europe there's a lot to worry about with Russia
7:56
I think there are things that Europeans can do about it in that sense
8:01
I think our fate is more in our hands now as a result of Trump
8:05
rather than us being put in existential danger because of him but there are all sorts of other things
8:10
whether you're talking about AI or climate change or whatever where health dealing with pandemics
8:17
whereas in the past, the leadership of the United States was crucial. It's readiness to take initiatives
8:22
And it's just not doing that at the moment. It's going backwards. And it's undoing funding globally, isn't it
8:28
Particularly when you think of health and disease, it's done serious damage to that, to containment of those things
8:34
Just a final question, really, on... You know, you're sitting at home and you're thinking..
8:39
You're thinking of, you know, your life, your family here in the UK
8:44
So, name the world leader that you think, on the best evidence available to us, threatens their safety most
8:55
Oh, Putin. I mean, Russia is mounting attacks on European countries, including the UK
9:03
I mean, they're not big military events, but they're real and can be evidence
9:10
so I don't think there's any doubt that that's the biggest threat. It would just be nice to have the United States beside us
9:17
as it used to be in helping us deal with these. Instead of screaming at us from the sidelines
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