Up next in 10
Matt Frei is joined by Dr. Henry Huiyao Wang and Dennis Wilder as Trump hails 'tremendous strides' during President Xi's visit to the States.
The two leaders and their wives attended a state dinner, a black-tie affair of sesame-crusted sea bass and a guest list heavy with tech CEOs.
Outside the gate, a group of loud protesters shouted slogans like "China out of Hong Kong" that were clearly audible to the leaders as they posed for pictures on the red-carpeted White House steps.
In his dinner toast, Trump said he and Xi "both understand we represent different systems, but the ties between our people endure, and we've never gotten along better."
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0:00
When Trump wakes up imminently with the urge to post something
0:04
he will no doubt congratulate himself on the state visit paid to him by Xi Jinping of China
0:09
Trump didn't just roll out one red carpet after another, he practically hoovered them himself
0:14
Members of his own Republican Party are wondering whether this festival of fanfare and fawning
0:18
was necessary from a president who once declared China a competitor at best and an enemy at worst
0:25
Just last year, Donald Trump started a trade war with China that he lost
0:30
because of America's reliance on rare earth metals mined in China. Chinese technology also goes into Russian and Iranian missiles
0:38
Without Chinese dual-use technology, Iran would not be able to threaten shipping in the Strait of Hormuz
0:44
So given the potential beef, it is remarkable how polite the whole thing was
0:55
It's a great honor. President Xi, Madam Peng, and the members of the Chinese delegation
1:12
I'm delighted to welcome you to the beautiful White House. Such a great honor
1:18
In May, we had the great privilege of visiting you in Beijing
1:22
where you received our delegation with spectacular and very beautiful hospitality. Now, Melania and I are honored to host you in Washington
1:34
as President Xi becomes the first ever Chinese leader to make a second formal state visit to America
1:42
Well, the good news is that both sides explicitly laid out a path for avoiding a future war
1:48
But at what price? Taiwan? Asking for a friend. Human rights were probably not even mentioned
1:54
Unlike his predecessor, Joe Biden, Donald Trump doesn't lecture the Chinese, even as he regularly insults his own supposed allies in Europe
2:02
And what about regulation on AI? China and America have locked competitive horns on the subject
2:08
As Trump said, whoever wins the AI race wins the race. So are we any closer to some kind of regulation on superintelligence
2:17
as Trump now likes to call it? or are there animal spirits of competition allowed to rage unchecked
2:23
Lots of stuff going on this morning. So let's start with our two guests on China and US
2:28
Dr. Henry Wang is the president of the Center for China in Globalization
2:32
and former advisor to China's State Council. He has stayed up for us in Beijing
2:37
And getting up very early for us indeed in Washington is Dennis Wilder
2:41
a member of the National Committee on US-China Relations who also served as a director for China at the White House
2:46
and the National Security Council under George Bush and organized a state visit by the Chinese
2:51
President Hu Jintao in 2006. So they both know the subject better than perhaps anyone else
2:58
Good morning to both of you or good evening if you're in Beijing. Let's start with you
3:02
Dennis Wilder. How would you assess the overall quality of this particular visit
3:11
Well, Matt, frankly, I woke up this morning to breaking news. The White House in the middle of
3:15
the night put out their fact sheet on the visit. And so there seems to have been more there than
3:22
we knew yesterday when I talked to you. There is a new deal for 10 million tons of coal a year from
3:30
the United States to China. That coal exports had gone to near zero. They had been at over 6 million
3:38
a year before the trade war, it would mean that China becomes now the second or third largest
3:46
customer of American coal So that was a little bit of a surprise The key issues that weren discussed in this statement that will upset some people and we can of course come back to some of these
4:00
is he does not say anything about Taiwan. Now, as you know, Xi Jinping made a very strong
4:06
statement about Taiwan, and the fact the president is mute on that subject in his
4:11
fact sheet will upset people in Taiwan. The key stumbling block issue, though
4:19
this summit really is rare earths. The reason that the rare earth trade agreement was not extended
4:26
beyond two months is the Chinese from the American point of view haven't lived up to their commitment
4:31
But otherwise, Matt, the key of the summit is the summit is the message. Most of it was symbolism
4:39
There is a new super AI dialogue. I'm sure we'll get into all these issues
4:45
Okay, that's very clear. Let's go to you, Dr. Wang in Beijing
4:49
How do you view the summit? Well, I think this summit is very significant
4:55
I think that, you know, given that just four months, there's another return high-level visit
5:00
that means something. Actually, this is just one of the second, actually one of the four summit we planned for this year
5:07
We're going to have another one in a few months' time. and another one at the end of the year
5:11
So this is a very significant of a high-level, resumed this high-level dialogue
5:17
with the head of state diplomacy is really playing. And that's very important for its symbolism
5:25
because if a President Trump and President Xi can shake hands, can talk, what about other people established
5:34
in the bureaucratic system, minister and think tanks, business, people-to-people exchange. So that actually, you know
5:43
they break the barrier for that, I think, psychologically and in practice in real life
5:49
So that's number one. Number two, there's a lot of agreement that's being achieved. But also, I think Trump has a large version now
5:54
He's really, look at his pattern in the global arena now. He wants to end the Iranian war
6:01
He wants to end the Russian war, Ukraine. He wants to consolidate
6:05
in the Western Hemisphere, people took back to Latin America, basically, from people to Asia, people to Indo-Pacific now
6:12
So it is China. And then, you know, that furthermore, of course, China's GDP since
6:18
President Trump's visit last time has doubled in the last decade. So you can see China now
6:25
is become a kind of new equilibrium, almost established. And so we cannot treat China as
6:31
the old way they think they can contain, they can really, you know, conduct trade wars
6:37
they can really dictate what to do. You know, so that's really
6:42
so if you can't change it, you have to accept it. That's, I think, the attitude they have been expressing now
6:48
And, of course, President Xi valued this opportunity and went to the United States and said many great things
6:54
So make America great again doesn't, you know, in conflict with, you know, the juventilation of China
7:00
so these two can really compatible and help each other. So I think there's a lot of good messages there
7:05
plus two, Panda was landed again. But, right, Dr. Wang, when will the Chinese stop selling the Russians
7:12
and the Iranians dual-use technology without which they could not be firing their missiles
7:17
or their drones at shipping in the Strait of Hormuz or indeed at hospitals and civilian apartment blocks in Kiev
7:25
Exactly. You know, that's the point. Basically, I think they made the choice for this trade agreement for another two months
7:34
Basically, to avoid that, they're going to discuss every time before the summit. They going to have another two summits coming up So they put this beyond January So that good I mean that what But Dr Wang sorry to interrupt the question was without Chinese dual technology
7:51
the Iranians and the Russians would not be able to conduct the wars
7:55
that are giving lots of people... Exactly. That's the point I want to get to. When will that stop
8:00
Yeah, no, that's the point I want to get to. Exactly. So first of all, I think the U.S
8:04
should stop selling weapons to Taiwan. You know, that's number one, because it's China's own country
8:09
own domestic place. Second, China can put a lot of efforts to maintain peace and promote peace
8:16
because China supports Pakistan to be a mediator. China is doing all those things
8:23
China can stop that. But I don't know, there could be third ways or indirectly
8:27
I mean, Ukraine buys China's drones as well and Russia probably does the same
8:34
I mean, Saudi buys that and the economy by that, and the U.S. by that too
8:39
So it's not really China's support to one party. Okay, let's ask Dennis Wilder
8:45
Dennis Wilder, you heard from Dr. Wang there, a note of realism after all the fanfare
8:51
I mean, what did Trump actually get out of this summit on the issues that really matter to him
8:57
And the strait of Hormuz really is an issue that matters to him, even though he started the war himself
9:02
Right. Well, first of all, I would highly disagree with Dr. Wong equating Taiwan arms sales to China's very devious activities in relationship to Ukraine and Iran
9:19
We openly state, we openly tell the world what we're doing with Taiwan
9:24
We're not hiding it from the world. China lies to the United States about this issue
9:30
We know that the Russian sales are what's keeping the war alive
9:37
And the brutal attacks are very much supported by Chinese dual-use technologies
9:44
sophisticated computer chips and the rest of it. And the Iranian missiles, the precursors that go into them
9:51
we know for years the Chinese have been sending them. From my point of view on this issue, the president did not make much headway
10:00
The American ambassador yesterday to China tried to put the best gloss on it
10:05
I've tried to put that kind of gloss on things when I knew the Chinese weren't, you know, helpful
10:12
He said, we're moving in the right direction. Well, I don't think that's good enough
10:16
Can you restate the question again? I apologize. OK, no, I think you answered it very well
10:21
But I just I've got a follow up, Dennis. You know, we spoke about this yesterday
10:25
if you're sitting in Taipei, in Taiwan at the moment, you've got to be pretty nervous
10:30
So I wonder if it came to a naval blockade or even an invasion of the island of Taiwan
10:37
what do you think your president would do about it? It is a million-dollar question what any president would do at that moment
10:47
One of the reasons we keep to strategic ambiguity is, frankly, American presidents won't want to be locked in on this issue
10:55
The enormous cost, the think tank CSIS ran a study, and they saw even in a three-week war, we would lose two carrier battle groups, 5,000 or more people dead in a conflict
11:11
This is an issue that no American president wants to confront. And so what we try and do, and what I did in the White House, you try and kick this can as far down the road as you can
11:23
hope that the status quo will remain. But certainly the people on Taiwan have got to be very very nervous this morning When the White House fact sheet doesn even mention Taiwan and the Chinese came out with such a strong statement the other day that the U should oppose Taiwan independence This is going to send a few shockwaves
11:47
Yeah, well, that's putting it mildly. Dr. Wang, do you now see China as overtaking America
11:54
in the coming decades as the supreme power on planet Earth? well no not really i i i won't just add that uh you know president trump did get what he want
12:05
actually he they are john statement they uh the post leader has said no nuclear weapons should be
12:11
developed in iran and no hormones should be blocked or told to be charged that's what america
12:17
want chinese to say china said that in the in the white house so that's a strong uh statement that
12:23
from both leaders that's what exactly i think china can do is to really align with some of
12:28
U.S. peace efforts to really, either on Russia, Ukraine war, or Middle East
12:35
But China never wants to take over U.S. because U.S. have a 700 military base around the world
12:41
You know, some of them in the neighborhood of China. And China never had any military base
12:46
in Latin America or in other Europe anywhere. China is basically a
12:52
country looking for economic cooperation rather than militarization. I think China, but China has
12:58
developed enough military capability to defend itself, including defend Taiwan. So I think that
13:05
America realized that. Defend Taiwan or invade Taiwan? Right. It can't be invaded. It's an unfinished
13:14
civil war there. They just liberate Taiwan if they want to. The other thing
13:21
everybody talked about, we have to protect Taiwan as a democracy. But this democracy is not doing
13:27
while economically, socially, anywhere, better than the mainland. mainland is already much better than Taiwan
13:34
You know, Taiwan used to be half of China's GDP, not less than the province of China
13:40
Taiwan is a successful economy, and it is a free democracy. China is a successful economy
13:47
It is not a free democracy, by any stretch of the imagination. But that's the problem. China has a Chinese style of democracy
13:52
which means it works in China. So we have to really gradually accept
13:57
there's different models of democracy rather than there's only universally one model which u.s execs
14:02
putting everywhere and they have to protect that model okay dennis final question to you um do you
14:09
think that trump can get away with this with his own republican party because there are a lot of
14:14
people i've spoken to on capitol hill in the last few days who are very unhappy with what they see
14:19
as america rolling over to china i think this is an issue within the republican party i think
14:26
probably Vice President Vance and Secretary Rubio are very uncomfortable. You don't see them playing
14:33
a leading role in the discussions of China right now. I think, though, for Trump, this is about
14:39
legacy. And he doesn't really care what his party thinks. If you look at current policy
14:45
he loves to talk about getting the Nobel Prize. He talks about having solved Venezuela
14:50
about to solve Cuba, hopefully solving Iran. This is about placing himself among the great
15:00
American statesmen. And this is the sixth year of an eight-year presidency, not the second year
15:07
of a four-year presidency. And American history is filled with figures who made their name in
15:14
foreign policy. Domestic policy is very hard to win on. FDR may be the last American president
15:20
known for a great domestic policy. So I think he really doesn't care what his party thinks
15:27
to be honest with you
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