Up next in 10
Lewis Goodall, co-host of The News Agents podcast, joins Shelagh Fogarty to run through the latest news in UK politics. First, he examines the problems in Scotland, where Peter Murrell's embezzlement case is coming to a head. The ex-husband of former First Minister Nicola Sturgeon, Murrell has been accused of siphoning over £400k worth of funds away from the party for personal use. Then Lewis turns his attention to Reform UK, after their candidate in the Makerfield by-election, Robert Kenyon, was found to have made comments of a sexist nature on social media platforms over the last few years. He claimed that women could not 'ref, drive, or give directions', and admitted to being sexist. The response from his party has been described as 'characteristic'. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #shelaghfogarty #lewisgoodall #reform #reformuk #snp #scotland #ukpolitics #scottishpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Let's talk about what's going on in our political world
0:02
I have to start with the SNP. Yes. Well, you pick up
0:08
I mean, it's just an extraordinary story of, is it greed or opportunism
0:12
What is it? Well, I mean, there was an interesting VT I saw
0:16
on the news channel yesterday, Sheila, which ended by saying, the question on everyone's lips is
0:22
why on earth did he do it? I'm not sure that is the question on everyone's lips
0:26
I mean, we can clearly see why he did it. he wanted some very expensive Lalique salt and pepper pots
0:31
And although many of us may have thought that, very few of us, or indeed nobody else
0:35
has decided to, whilst being in charge of a political party, the biggest political party for much of this time in Scotland
0:43
to siphon from party funds, to fund a lifestyle which he clearly could not afford
0:48
This is Peter Murrow, almost half a million, 400,000. 400,000 pounds. I think what is kind of particularly kind of grim about that in a way
0:56
Look, I mean, this is one of the biggest party funding scandals, corruption. I mean, we can say that now
1:00
He pled guilty in Edinburgh court yesterday. He pled guilty unexpectedly early
1:07
I think clearly he knew that there was such overwhelming evidence as part of this investigation
1:12
And he has, you know, he's likely facing a long, lengthy period in prison
1:17
This was one of the most powerful men in Scottish politics. Of course, 50% of the most, at that time, powerful couple in Scottish politics
1:26
because, of course, he was married to Nicola Sturgeon, who for a lot of this period was the first minister
1:32
and longest-serving first minister of Scotland, and they were really an unassailable political force
1:38
He in the shadows, as the party chief executive, orchestrating and masterminding election win after election win
1:45
and near miss in terms of the 2014 independence referendum. And crucially, and I think this is where, you know
1:53
there is just something so, and I can understand the complete anger and fury
1:57
for many independence supporters, not just SNP supporters. You know, much of this money appears to have been taken
2:03
from a fund that was specifically set up to campaign for a second independence referendum
2:11
after Brexit, effectively. Obviously a referendum which did not take place and the party eventually abandoned
2:16
But now we can see that some of that money was being used to fund both extravagant but also sort of everyday purchases
2:23
everything from Jaguar cars to curry paste. Extraordinary, bizarre, weird, but as I think really summed up very well
2:30
the anger for a lot of independence supporters was from Jo McAlpine
2:34
who used to be a member of the Scottish Parliament. She's still a party member, and she posted this on X
2:39
She said, like every other SNP parliamentarian, I gave the party £250 per month for my personal income
2:45
After tax. Adding my party membership fees, paid at an enhanced rate
2:49
came out to £35,000 over 10 years. The £250 sub was an obligation for all MPs and
2:55
MSPs, but I was happy to pay because I believed that it was going to the cause. Not to keep
2:59
Nicola Sturgeon in smiles and hangbags and Montblanc pens. Stolen goods. I had a good salary, and this is
3:05
the kicker, I think, but what of the decent working people who could ill afford
3:09
the or donations they made to the SNP it disgusting and requires an internal investigation Has Nicola Sturgeon commented She has So she put out a statement yesterday We should remember that Nicola Sturgeon
3:21
was also arrested as part of this investigation, but then she was released
3:26
And she herself has said, you know, that she was cleared of any wrongdoing and so on. She's not part of this
3:31
And they are now estranged. And they are now estranged. And she has said that she was as surprised as anybody else
3:36
to learn about this corruption, about this embezzlement. There are, of course, there's two questions, of course, though, for her
3:44
and not just for her, but also for the SNP leadership, many of whom were also around at this time
3:49
which is that obviously some people have speculated and said that is it credible that she had no idea whatsoever
3:55
when she saw some of these purchases appearing? She's been pictured with jewellery that was purchased using these funds
4:02
using those pens, as has been said, I think, handbags and so on. She said she had no idea that they didn't really socialise together
4:07
they had separate bank accounts and so on, but some people have queried that
4:11
One way or the other, though, there is a kind of damning indictment in the sense of Nicola Sturgeon
4:15
which is that let's leave aside the marital element of it for a moment. She was party leader
4:20
She was party leader, and therefore she had an obligation, a shittery function or obligation
4:26
About the governance of the party. To the governance of the party. Ultimately, she was one of, as the most senior party officer
4:31
she was responsible for signing off the accounts. And it's also true to say that there were people in this period, internally with the SNP, making or asking questions about party funding and what may have happened to some of this money
4:46
And there is indeed a recording which shows, and very clearly, I think during the COVID period, Sturgeon as the leader of the party, shutting it down, shutting it down, almost snarling, basically saying, we shouldn't be, you know, asking these sort of questions
4:59
we rely on party donations and so on. And so the best case scenario, frankly
5:04
is that Nicola Sturgeon, as the most senior party officer, you can argue that she was at the best incompetent, really
5:10
in the sense that she was signing off those accounts and being part of the body which oversees that account
5:15
And we have seen one of the biggest cases, she had oversaw one of the biggest cases of embezzlement
5:19
and party fund management that we've ever seen in British politics. And for people who might not have understood the reference
5:24
to the Lalique Salt-N-Pepa set, set two and a half thousand pounds for two tiny little salt and pepper
5:30
indeed so i think he also bought a luxury suv for eight one thousand pounds a jaguar ipace
5:35
subsidized with 57 and a half thousand of smp money which he later sold there was also a 124
5:42
000 kniesman and bischoff motorhome which he parked on his mother's driveway for which he
5:47
created fake invoices used 16 and a half thousand of eight smp money to part fund the purchase of a
5:53
33,000 Volkswagen Golf. And as you say, then these smaller things, you know, 9,000 on two Bremont watches
6:00
4,000 on a Starwalker World Time fountain pen, 1,400 pounds on two Mont Blanc Bohème Noir fountain pens
6:07
700 pounds on a Baldy Stripe Great Characters Beetle Special Edition fountain pen in 14-carat gold
6:13
It goes on and it goes on and it goes on. It even includes musical Santa sleigh advent calendar
6:19
at 165 pounds. I mean, there's something wrong there, isn't there, in terms of spending
6:25
There the crime obviously but there also something wrong in the emotional I mean he even paid for the DVD version of The Killing Seasons 1 to 3 using money stolen from the SNP So you know there are people speculating that you know
6:37
perhaps this reveals or adverts to some sort of disorder. Who knows? But it's still a crime
6:41
It's one way or the other, it's still a crime. And let me ask about reform, because Robert Jenrick and Zia Yusuf
6:46
two senior figures now in the party, they're having a bit of a public row over the party's immigration policy
6:52
Yes, indeed. I mean, we are seeing in one form or another reform certainly being challenged both internally and externally
7:02
So we're seeing a quite extraordinary situation where Robert, we don't need to get into the details particularly
7:07
but basically their candidate in Makefield, Robert Kenyon, having said, oh, sorry, Robert Jenrick
7:11
who is, of course, their Treasury spokesperson to Roberts, going on television over the course of the weekend
7:17
and making a statement about party policy, which has now been debunked and denied as party policy
7:23
by Zia Yusuf, who, of course, is a very senior figure. I think we've got the clip, actually. It might be just worth listening to it
7:28
You're saying to me that someone, a foreign person, who is legally resident but lives in social housing
7:35
will be deported under a reformed government just because of that. They live in social housing
7:41
Well, not exclusively because of that. Well, that's what... You just said that that's what you agreed with
7:46
If they fail to meet our criteria because they're not in work or they're not working in as many hours, not earning enough money, then they won't be able to renew their work visa because ILR won't exist and they'll be asked to leave
7:59
Oh, so you don't agree with that? That is fair. So then Zia Yusuf tweets out this morning, who is the shadow home secretary, as he calls himself, their home affairs spokesperson, not in Parliament, but he's their shadow home affairs spokesperson, says that Robert's answer is not reform policy
8:14
As the person responsible for our deportation plan, I want to ensure people know where we stand
8:19
If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported
8:26
So here you have their so-called shadow chancellor and their so-called shadow home secretary
8:31
coming to very public blows and loggerheads about what is clearly a signature policy for the party
8:38
Which is never good. Never a good look for us. It's not ideal. It's not completely ideal, no
8:43
Still with reform, Robert Kenyon. Talk to me about him. He's got himself into trouble on a number of fronts
8:50
not least a very public spat with Carol Vorderman. So Robert Kenyon, who's of course the party's candidate
8:56
in the upcoming Makerfield by-election, self-made man, a man who is a plumber
9:02
seems to be de rigueur. You always have to have a plumber in a by-election these days
9:05
He's been getting into some controversy over social media comments that he has made hitherto
9:12
some of which before he became involved in politics. So there's a story in the Independent today
9:17
saying he made degrading comments about women on an account linked to him. They can't drive
9:21
It's alleged that he wrote, women can't ref, a referee, drive or give directions
9:27
and then declared, I'm sexist, sorry but I am. So in his own terms, he is a self-avowed sexist
9:34
That is something that reform has dismissed as locker room banter. Oh my goodness
9:39
There are also reports in the iNewspaper about alleged comments on abortion claims that he made posts about how abortion is a quote cowardly act of murdering a defenceless baby and it being used by women as a secondary form of contraception and
9:51
a way of not having to face up to it because a doctor did it for them. Reform responded to that
9:56
by saying these comments were made before Councillor Kenyon entered politics and that
10:00
Rob Kenyon is perfectly entitled to his own personal opinion on abortion. And this has gone
10:06
on there are other controversies as well and obviously there is a genuine question to be had
10:12
about people's social media activities coming up more and more in politics particularly as
10:16
social media has been with us for longer and people often before they enter politics are much
10:22
more likely to have very few followers and they kind of treat their social media accounts not as
10:26
like obviously a politician would or a well-known journalist would or whatever very much a private
10:30
thing for sort of family and friends but it is true to say that the way that reform are responding
10:34
to this is quite characteristic of how they've increasingly responded to many of these things
10:39
which is not to sort of apologize for whatever but to dismiss it as a kind of westminster
10:44
woe karate thing and the ordinary people see through all of this kind of thing and actually
10:49
it's reflective much more of how an awful lot of people men and women but probably mostly men but
10:54
an awful lot of men and women would look at those comments and just think they were a bit of nothing
10:58
yeah well indeed i mean this is the kind of um this is the sort of no but yeah i mean i suppose
11:04
it depends i mean i think some of it there's also a different sort of hierarchy of course there's
11:08
also been a suggestion of of of something that he has said or rather a sort of something that he
11:13
endorsed online highly highly degrading about the tv presenter carol vorderman i think these things
11:18
are often a hierarchy of things some of these things i think can reasonably easily be dismissed
11:22
it's just the way that ordinary people often have a bit of a joke online or in person and so on
11:26
but of course it depends on the severity of these things and if there is a sort of pattern that has
11:30
to be said as well you know we see this more and more in politics the greens had their own
11:34
controversy last week with their own candidate in the by-election chris kennedy being forced to step down within a couple of hours of his big launch event because initially we were told by the party
11:42
this is for private and family reasons but then times reported or pointed to comments he'd made
11:46
on social media suggesting the alleged attack on jewish ambulances in london were a false flag
11:51
attack something he has since apologized for they've announced a new candidate sarah wakefield
11:56
today. So, you know, this is something that is recurring in politics and I think the more interesting
12:02
thing over the course of the weekend was the extent to which, you know, if you look at kind of the
12:06
way that reform are responding to what we're seeing, we're also seeing increased
12:10
concern, I think, from their side. The Restore Party, which is also standing a
12:14
candidate in the by-election, increasingly appears to be eating in, in different parts of the country
12:18
potentially to the reform vote. Basically, sort of outdoing to Farage what Farage did. The Conservative Party
12:24
sort of time and time and time again. So it's an interesting period for the party. I must see where all that goes
12:29
I must name the candidates in the Makerfield by-election upcoming. Andy Burnham, of course, Labour Party
12:34
Alan Howlin, Lord Hope, the official monster-raving loony party. Jake Austin, the Liberal Democrats
12:40
Robert Kenyon, we talked about, Reform UK. Rebecca Shepard, Restore Britain. Michael Wynn-Stanley, the Conservative Party
12:46
And Sarah Wakefield, the Green Party candidate. You can find all of the details there on the LBC app
12:52
And watch us live. I should have said that to you earlier, shouldn't I
12:56
Watch us live on the LBC app, Global Place. A bit late now, Sheila. It's a bit late now. He's leaving, that's it. Honestly
13:01
See ya
#news