Up next in 10
Andrew Marr speaks to Reform’s Richard Tice and journalist Michael Crick about Nigel Farage’s resignation as MP for Clacton, earlier today. Reform’s leader Nigel Farage quit as an MP and vowed to fight a "people versus establishment" by-election amid a row over his finances. He said an issue with his daughter was "the final straw" for him to quit, referring to the allegations that a Sky news journalist knocked on his door and spoke to her. Andrew Marr suggests this is the “great showman of British politics’” attempt to “change the story” and asks: is this by-election a ‘gamble’ or a ‘gimmick’? Richard Tice and Micheal Crick can’t seem to see eye to eye on the motivations of Farage’s by-election run. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #andrewmarr #nigelfarage #reformuk #ukpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
I thought about it hard, and I've decided today
0:02
today I will resign as a Member of Parliament for Clacton-on-Sea, thereby forcing a by-election
0:11
Nigel Paul Farage is the great showman of British politics, and today he unveiled a new show
0:19
the great Clacton-on-Sea by-election summer extravaganza. Roll up, roll up, to see the people of Britain
0:27
take on the monstrous, hydra-headed, mean-spirited establishment. Gasp as Nigel upends the editor of the Times newspaper
0:36
Cheer as he thrashes Tory Tweedledum and Labour Tweedledee. Well, perhaps I'm exaggerating a little, but only a little
0:46
Mr Farage has learned, I think, from the politics-changing drama of Andy Burnham's Makerfield by-Election Triumph last month
0:55
After so long under attack over his finances and his friends, he's decided to change the story, out himself as a proudly wealthy man
1:04
a la Donald Trump, and then perhaps resume reform's upward trajectory after recent months when they have plateaued
1:12
If Andy can reshape politics in a by-election, he calculates, well then, why not Nigel
1:18
The difference is that Burnham took a genuine, personal, high-stakes risk by standing in Makerfield, lots of clever people thought reform would beat him
1:28
In Clacton, however, Farage won more than 46% of the vote almost exactly two years ago
1:34
with the Tories down at 28% and nobody else anywhere. So it doesn't feel like a very perilous contest
1:42
particularly, as Farage reminded us today, after the absolute battering that reform gave both Labour and the Conservatives in the May local elections
1:52
So will the extravaganza be truly exciting or a bit of a damn squib
1:57
Is this a gamble or a gimmick? I don't think Mr Farage's motivation was primarily to avoid parliamentary scrutiny of his finances
2:06
because that can restart when he returns. And just sometimes it's worth taking people at their word, certainly listening to their tone
2:15
he sounded to me to be genuinely furious about finding his daughter drawn into public scrutiny
2:22
I will not tolerate intimidation of my family. I will not tolerate the location of where they live being revealed
2:30
I will not tolerate any of my family being endangered because of what I choose to do in public life
2:38
So, yes, you can ask, am I angry? Well, I've never been angrier in my life
2:44
When the first announcement came that Nigel Farage was going to make a statement about his future in public life
2:50
there was, of course, a lot of speculation he was simply going to leave it. And he did mention the possibility of simply decamping to the United States
2:58
But the showman is still the showman. And for all his irritation and his sense of persecution
3:03
he clearly hasn't lost his taste for the sawdust and the trumpets
3:08
So let's begin tonight with Richard Dice, Reform's deputy leader and its business and trade spokesman
3:13
And Richard, welcome to the studio. Good evening. Good evening. I guess my first question is a very straightforward one
3:19
What is the point of this by-election? What is it going to prove? What it's going to prove is that he's going to put himself back to the people
3:26
the good folk of Clacton on sea and say, you be the judge
3:31
because the establishment are basically trying to effectively kill me off one way or another
3:38
And he's had enough of it. He's had enough of the smearing, the labelling
3:42
He's had enough of the endangerment to his family. And he's calling it out
3:48
And he said, let's get on with this and let's ask the people of Clacton
3:55
And what's not acceptable is for the Standards Commissioner to take six or 12 months for this to be hanging over Nigel's head
4:04
He's saying, forget all that. We're calling it out. We're going to do it with the people of Clacton
4:09
They can be the judge and jury. But if he wins which he will and comes back to the Commons all of that is still hanging over him It doesn actually resolve anything Well it does actually because it would show how utterly ridiculous the system is where it going to carry on with this charade
4:23
The Parliamentary Standards Commissioner could conclude their deliberations. So it's to put pressure on him, in a sense
4:30
It's to put pressure on the whole system to say, look, if you think I've done something wrong
4:35
let's put it to the people of Clacton. I don't think I've done anything wrong. I'm going to prove it
4:39
I'm going to put it to the people of Clacton. The by-election is only dramatic and meaningful if there is a contest
4:45
We've heard tonight already the Tories are not putting up a candidate. I suspect Labour won't either, nor the Liberal Democrats
4:52
He'll end up facing Count Binface. All the other parties are running chicken
4:57
But what is that? What is that? They are running scared. What does that prove
5:01
They're already talking about a second by-election. They are petrified. They've been sort of hanging this over, Nigel, for sort of weeks and weeks saying, oh, he's going to face a by-election
5:12
He says, yeah, bring it on, folks, bring it on. And he's bringing it on, and all of a sudden they're running for the hills
5:17
You can't see them for dust. Because they think this is a stunt. And they think, why should we give Nigel Farage the publicity, the jeopardy that he wants
5:26
Simply because Nigel knows that this Parliamentary Standards Commissioner is a device by the other parties to try and kill Nigel off and to leave it hanging over so that in every interview by every media outlet for the next six or 12 months, they go, oh, Nigel's facing an inquiry
5:45
Nigel's facing inquiry. And you might say, Richard, so he should. any other MP of any
5:52
party in this circumstance would face an inquiry. Gabriel Poggeron, the journalist attacked by your
5:58
party, has done the same thing to Labour MPs, to Tory MPs, and
6:04
now to you. Why are you different? I'll tell you why he's different, because Gabriel Poggeron
6:08
literally wrote out there that he despises Nigel. Well, he may have lots of views
6:12
but he's... He's never written that about anybody else. This is a man whose now job is literally to
6:18
attack me, attack Nigel, His job is to investigate politicians. Well, I'll tell you what, he has lied about me
6:25
He's libelled me. What about his attack on Labour together? What about that that brought down the previous MP for Makerfield
6:33
What about his attack on the Conservatives? What about his attacks on Jeremy Corbyn
6:37
Has he lied about them? Has he libelled them? No, he hasn't. Oh, there you are. Has he said he despises them
6:41
No. He hasn't necessarily lied about you guys either. He's just asking questions
6:45
He has lied and libelled about me. I've called him out on it. He knows it. And that is that
6:49
and he's confirmed that he despises Nigel. So I just want people to understand what we're dealing with
6:54
You've also, I'm sorry, in all of this, you say that the editor of the Times is running a pro-Labour paper
7:00
For many of us, this is news to us. This was a party at the last general election that supported Labour
7:07
And let's just remember, the Times, the editor of the Times, is the person responsible for outing the address of Nigel's daughter's house
7:15
at the specific request not to... They, by the way, say that they did not identify the house
7:19
I mean, I'm just putting the other side. They say you couldn't tell where the house was. My daughter says, nothing to do with my politics
7:25
Don't put a picture of a house because people will find it. And sure enough, people found it
7:29
And members of the media are now lying as to whether or not they did or did not approach the house
7:34
It's disgraceful. OK, what I think is going on on the right of the press
7:39
or the right-wing media is that there has been a noticeable and discernible tilt over the last few weeks and months
7:45
from reform support towards the Tories. Kemi Obedenok has done an operation which is quite successful
7:52
and I think this is about, as it were, flushing them out, and it's about your, by which I mean reforms
7:59
fight to the death, really, with the Conservatives. That's what's going on here
8:03
We like competition. We're competing against everybody. That's the nature of it. And, yes, people are talking about Kemi
8:08
but no one's talking about the fact that her poll rate, the poll rating of the conservatives is worse than when she became leader
8:15
That's the reality. She's not shifting the conservative polls. So why is the Clacton by-election any kind of test
8:23
Because it Nigel putting himself to the good people of Clacton which is essentially what all the other MPs are saying would happen if he failed a parliamentary standards commission Two years ago he won with 46 of the vote and the Tories had just under 28
8:37
This does not seem to me like a very exciting contest. Well, whether it's exciting or not, it's the people of Clacton who can decide
8:44
And if they want to vote for someone else, if anybody else wants to stand, bring it on
8:48
Isn't the biggest danger here damp squib? On behalf of the other parties, yes, because they're shown to be cowards
8:56
But also for yourselves, if you're not really fighting anybody. No, because they claimed they wanted a by-election
9:03
and now we've got a by-election. All of a sudden, they're running scared. It's like they don't like democracy
9:07
It's like Andy Burnham won't have a general election. They don't seem to like democracy, these people. What happens if there is a second by-election
9:13
If he wins this by-election, as I say, I think, of course, he will. Then he comes back to the House of Commons
9:17
Everyone will say, how ridiculous. Yes, they will. But the voters may begin to think the whole thing's ridiculous as well
9:23
Well, then stand in this by-election and don't make it ridiculous. but they're all scared. They're all chickens
9:28
Let me ask you about yourself, because you have also launched a complaint against part of the state
9:34
Yes, the National Crime Agency have leaked copies of my company's bank statements
9:42
and copies of conversations between me and my bank manager to The Guardian
9:46
That is a... We've written to the Director General of the National Crime Agency
9:53
And you're sure it's them? Yes, because we've got essentially proof from that from The Guardian
9:58
And they have literally, as the most senior crime agency in the country, they have broken the law on multiple offences
10:04
And so I'm asking whether the police should investigate. I'm asking for an internal inquiry
10:08
It's absolutely outrageous. All right. Let me let me return to the main story, because I had to ask you about that
10:17
There are suggestions today that actually the other parties will not allow this by-election to happen
10:22
that they will either delay it or they'll put down amendments against it
10:28
They're just terrified at every level. The one level of participation, they will say, let's have a by-election
10:32
Oh, no, we don't want a by-election. No, no, no, we don't want a by-election. I mean, these are like chickens pacified
10:36
They're all like sort of super-fertiliser food. I don't really remember, to be honest with you
10:41
I don't remember people calling for a by-election in Clacton. The whole point of them running the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner
10:48
the reason they're going through this Commissioner process is that if he broke the rules
10:53
And if he does, then there's a sanction which ends up at a by-election. So Nigel's saying, I don't think I've broken the rules
10:58
Not necessarily. Let the people decide. Not necessarily. Almost certainly. Look, everybody wants to try and do us in electorally
11:06
This is all part of their game. We see them, we spot them, we're calling them out
11:10
and all of a sudden they've been sussed and they don't like it. All right, Richard Tice, thank you very, very much indeed for that
11:15
Let's hear next from Michael Crick, the journalist and author of One Party After Another
11:19
The Disruptive Life. of Nigel Farage. And Michael, the disruption carries on. What do you make of what happened today
11:27
Well, I mean, Farage's speech was largely a load of tosh and Richard Tice just then. I mean
11:33
this idea that let the people of Clacton decide the case about whether Farage has broken the rules
11:42
is Tice and is Farage, are Farage and Tice really willing to put all the evidence that they're
11:48
intending to give to the Standards Commissioner, and all the evidence he's already accumulated
11:52
to the people of Tack Clackton. Of course they're not. They will never get to see that evidence
11:57
And this idea that the whole inquiry is going to take six to 12 months, where's that figure come
12:01
from? Again, a load of rubbish. This idea that the parties are running scared. Well, if Mr. Tice
12:09
and Mr. Farrow are so keen on elections, why are they not going to have elections in Romford
12:14
where Andrew Rosendale defected from the Conservatives, or in Fairham and Rotterlewville
12:20
where Suella Braverman defected from the Conservatives, or in Wiltshire, where Danny Kruger defected from the Conservatives
12:27
In UKIP's day, the last time there was a by-election in Clacton
12:33
it was because a gentleman called Douglas Carswell defected from the Conservatives
12:37
and felt it was a matter of honour and principle that he should fight a by-election
12:41
There are no principles in this by It all about Farage and his ego And what will happen is that none of the other parties as you say none of the other serious parties will fight it It will be just like the election
12:54
caused by David Davis in Holton, Price and Howden in 2008, where he gave up his seat
13:00
gave up being shadow home secretary, and the other parties boycotted the election and it became a
13:05
farce. And you know what? Those are the parties who boycotted the election in Holton, Price and
13:11
Howden because they all thought it was a stunt in 2008. You know what? They included
13:15
a party called UKIP, led by a young man called Nigel Farage
13:20
Well, Richard, you're still here. Would you actually put the evidence to the voters of Clacton
13:27
I think the voters of Clacton had all the evidence put forward by all the papers, all the stories
13:30
It's out there. The reality is it is out there and the irony, the hypocrisy of
13:38
Mr Crick, on the one hand he says, we need to call a by-election. We call a by-election
13:42
elsewhere and he doesn't like it. I don't think he says call a by-election. He's saying call a by-election where I want to
13:48
but don't call a by-election where I don't want to. I mean, it's pure hypocrisy. Isn't there a fundamental principle here, which is that
13:54
where the voters elected one party and that person then defects, the voters have had their
14:00
vote, as it were, cancelled, and therefore they deserve a by-election. In which case, Suella Braufferman
14:06
and Mr. Jenrick and the rest should stand in by-election. And in which case, let's apply
14:10
the same principle, shall we, to when there's a change of prime minister where someone
14:14
comes in who wasn't even on the ballot, didn't even stand behind the manifesto
14:18
for the right, the most senior right of all, which is to run the country
14:21
Mr Burnham, again, running scared. He did win a by-election against you. You can't just rock up and invoke
14:28
essentially a coup and 25,000 people determine who runs the country. It's absurd
14:35
Michael, sorry, I was interviewing you and then I got so distracted by what
14:39
you'd said I put it to Richard Tice I must let you back in again no it's absolutely important you
14:44
do put them to Richard Tice but I mean even if Farage wins a which he will wins a by-election
14:49
in Clacton uh with against Count Binface and and a few other oddballs uh what does that mean it
14:55
doesn't mean the rest of the country think that Farage was right to break the rules I mean what
14:59
principle are we trying to establish here now when Carswell fought Clacton it was the principle that
15:06
if somebody leaves one party and joins another, there should be an election. I mean, is the principle here that MPs shouldn't be investigated
15:14
by the parliamentary commissioner? Is the principle here he's trying to establish that journalists shouldn't ask tough questions
15:21
As for this tosh about his daughter being intimidated, all that Sky were trying to do was to..
15:27
No, no, no. No, no, no, Michael. Sorry, that is outrageous. I cannot believe in a thousand years that Sky were intimidating
15:34
Nigel Farage's daughter. Michael, that is outrageous. You do not bring people's children into politics. It's absolutely outrageous. You know it. Any decent minded person knows it. That is that is that is the whole point. So have you got children? Are you happy for journalists? Are you happy for journalists to doorstep them even though they've got nothing to do with your work? Are you happy for that
15:58
What do you mean by a doorstep? You know exactly what I mean by a doorstep
16:03
Journalists rocking up and sticking a camera lens and a microphone in your face the moment you open the door
16:10
That's exactly what a doorstep does. You're a past master at it. It's completely inappropriate
16:15
That isn't intimidation. And it was never intimidation when I did. It's his daughter, for heaven's sake
16:19
It's not him, Michael. I know, but I'm sure that as soon as they knew it was his daughter, they stopped
16:23
They knew exactly it was his daughter. That's the whole point. Nigel Farage. They knew it was his daughter when they went there
16:29
Nigel Farage frequently... Yes or no, Michael? They knew it was his daughter when they went
16:33
Yes or no? I don't know. I don't know if they knew it was his daughter when they went. It's one of Nigel Farage's houses
16:39
and it wouldn't be surprising if they knocked on the door to see if he was there. After all, he did seem to be avoiding the media at the time
16:45
They deliberately went to his daughter's house because he wouldn't be there. Nigel Farage is..
16:49
Gentlemen, gentlemen, there are times when an expert broadcaster knows the best thing he can do is shut up
16:56
and let other people have an argument. But I think we have passed that moment, and I'm going to say thank you very much to both of you
17:02
Extremely entertaining for the rest of us
#news