Up next in 10
Following his exclusive interview with Andy Burnham, Andrew Marr joins Matt Frei to give his analysis of the PM-in-waiting's pledges and shares predictions for his premiership. The former Manchester Mayor pledged to overhaul taxes impacting Britain's pubs and high streets, and told LBC he will stick by Labour's manifesto pledges if he comes to power. The MP for Makerfield sent a message to the City and UK business owners, suggesting that he could slash business rates for pubs and “prioritise the businesses that bring people together”. However, Mr Burnham added that he remains “frustrated” by those criticising his economic policy, reiterating his "rock solid" track record in Manchester. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #mattfrei #andrewmarr #andyburnham #exclusive #news #ukpolitics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
I believe there is a case for higher business rates on warehouses and the major developments we see on the outskirts of our cities so that we can cut business rates for pubs
0:12
And I've proposed a 20% cut and lift some high street businesses out of business rates altogether
0:18
He was talking about taxing warehouses and lowering taxes on pubs by warehouses. Was that code for Amazon
0:26
Yes, I think so. And there's a few other big companies who've got these huge mammoth buildings up and down the country
0:32
You see them at the side of motorways. And I think it's code in more general terms for going after the really big economic powers on the planet at the moment
0:41
the big tech companies, the big companies like Amazon providing supplies of food and clothing and the rest of us by courier
0:49
at the expense of traditional Britain, the traditional high streets, the places where we used to live and drink coffee and drink beer and work and enjoy
0:58
And they are in decline all around the country. And I think he sees it as part of his mission, a visible part of what he calls the renaissance of the country
1:06
to revive the high street. But to do that, he needs the money. And where is the money
1:10
The money's in the pockets of Amazon. It's quite interesting, isn't it
1:14
He's offering a form of nostalgia of what Britain was like. And so is a guy called Nigel Farage
1:21
Very, very good point. I mean, I think there are two. First of all, let's start from the obvious. The country is angry, impatient with politics, deeply upset about the fall in living standards for many people
1:33
And this sense that our children are going to have a worse life than we have had. Things are getting worse, not better
1:39
And that produces, in turn, contempt for traditional politics and a demand for a radical change
1:46
and really reform has risen and risen and risen in the polls
1:50
flatlining now, but for a long time they were rising in the polls because they were offering that radical break
1:55
And now we have, against all the odds really, and to my surprise, a Labour Prime Minister coming in
2:01
also offering a radical, very different kind of radical break, not racialised politics, not blaming other people
2:08
but saying we're going to rewire the country. Britain will be run kind of almost equally from London and from Manchester
2:15
much more power, much more money will flow to local communities. And you sitting at home
2:20
seething at politics, he promises, big, big promise, you will notice a difference
2:25
Of course, one of his selling points is that he's in touch with the local communities. He proved
2:29
that when he was mayor of Manchester, you know, he knows about potholes and buses and high streets
2:34
and all that stuff. That is also arguably one of his weaknesses, because he has to go from the local
2:39
to the national and to the global pretty swiftly. Do you think he can make that journey
2:45
Well, we'll see. It's a very good question. I mean, interesting that in one of his sort of farewell interviews
2:50
Keir Starmer made a not very coded warning to Andrew Byrne, Andy Byrne
2:54
saying, you know, if you think you can just be a domestic prime minister
2:57
and stay away from all of these international conferences and gatherings that I Keir Starmer have been criticised brackets never hear Keir brackets for attending Forget it In the modern world if you interested in standards of living
3:10
if you're interested in inflation, you have to be thinking about the Strait of Hormuz
3:14
you have to be thinking about Trump, you have to be thinking about Ukraine. And just getting back to those tech bosses, you know, and that very lively and visceral debate
3:23
about how much we should tax these giants that have come over from the west coast of America
3:27
spread their wings in Britain, are making tons of money, but according to so many people
3:32
are not paying enough taxes. If Andy Burnham sits across Jeff Bezos
3:36
or Elon Musk, for that matter, or Mark Zuckerberg, do you think he's able to stare them down
3:41
and say, pay up or get out? Well, you then have to ask yourself, what does he have
3:46
What do we have in this country that they really want? You know, we don't have the cheap energy prices
3:50
We don't have the data centers. We've got lots of brilliant young people, but we don't have the big tech companies
3:55
to rival America. None of that. what we have is a market and a very important market and how that's regulated and how that
4:02
develops will be part of the profit and loss story for jeff bezos and the rest of them so we have we
4:08
you know we are not um defenseless in this conversation and i think it's a very interesting
4:13
moment where for an awful lot of people in britain it feels like we have become an almost
4:17
wholly owned subsidiary of the united states on its birthday to the point where uh washington is
4:24
trying to tell andy burnham who he should or should not appoint as his chancellor you know
4:28
stories today saying um trump's administration have told burnham in no uncertain terms you may
4:34
not appoint um ed milliband as chancellor and we think well hold on a second i thought we were
4:39
independent country with an independent government able to make at least its own cabinet decisions
4:43
so it's a very important moment for that for that relationship i don't think that trump or anybody
4:49
else is going to respond to a kind of bullying swaggering um over the top uh approach from
4:55
burnham because we're not very powerful but i think again and again i've been talking as i'm
4:59
sure you have matt to lots of people close to trump and they all say the same thing don't try
5:05
and appease him don't bring him little presents don't wag your tail you know be strong trump
5:10
sense weakness and if he thinks that burnham has come in very powerful and effectively through some
5:16
kind of coup he doesn't understand he will respect him more for that you kind of wonder whether that
5:21
ed milliband story uh was fed by ed milliband himself perhaps with a disguised voice it's the
5:26
one thing that will make sure that he does get that job isn't it i mean it will do him no harm
5:30
quite right it will do him no harm whatsoever there is a there is a burn and vision it may
5:34
not be complete but it does exist can you tell us about it well he thinks what he calls neoliberalism
5:40
has basically destroyed the country, by which he means those political generations
5:47
of privatisation of council houses during the Thatcher years, the de-industrialisation that the Thatcher project involved
5:55
for the North and the Midlands, the disappearance of all those factories and coal mines
5:59
and the rest of it, followed then by austerity and the undermining of the public realm all the privatisations So the fact that as it were the basics of life including water are now in private hands and something like a fifth or a quarter
6:16
depending on how you cut the cake, of the profits going to a company like Thames Water
6:21
ultimately will end up in the pockets of the shareholders rather than improving pipes and improving the quality of drinking water
6:29
and stopping sewage pouring onto the beaches. So he has got a narrative. There's a series of different governments, and he includes himself, he blames himself for this in his Blairite phase, have allowed the public realm, as it were, to fritter away
6:45
I think he would see it in this sense. Capitalism or the market is a good thing in the sense that it brings in innovation and energy and creates companies and creates products and creates jobs
6:57
But there are two problems with it. One is it makes a lot of mess. So there's pollution and in our time there's global warming. And second, it creates intolerable lack of equity, intolerable unfairness and inequality
7:15
and it's the job of government to mitigate the inequality, to lower the inequality and help clear up the mess
7:23
And if government does its job and is strong enough to do its job, then the market or capitalism, whatever you call it
7:29
can get on with the things it's good at. A traditional town has got a marketplace, but it's also got a church
7:36
it's also got a school, it's got things that are not part of the market. And his view is that the rest of it, everything except the market
7:42
has been underplayed and undervalued, and that's why we're in trouble. If he wants to be a successful prime minister
7:49
and you can't be a successful prime minister by suddenly arriving and trying to impose a kind of neo-Stalinism on the country
7:55
that is never going to work. I think he's got a very strong sense that small businesses
8:00
and he talks a lot about restaurants and pubs, but small businesses generally have had a really hard time
8:05
I asked him about this, and he did say very strongly that he wanted to lift the burden from small businesses
8:10
allow them to grow more successfully. So I think he does understand the balance
8:15
but, you know, we will see. He's been on a long journey. You talked earlier on about the fact that we get on quite well
8:22
This goes back to interviews I've done with him ages ago. And I was very struck
8:26
You know, you said quite rightly that he's changed his mind on a heck of a lot. He said to me a few years ago, for LBC, actually
8:33
we went up to Manchester to talk to him, and he said, look, when I was down in London
8:38
well, he first of all went to Cambridge University from the north as a working class boy, then went to join the political world in London
8:44
He said, I always had a very strong sense of imposter syndrome. I didn't really know who I was or what I was doing or what my project was
8:52
And it was only when he'd gone back to the north and got involved in the Hillsborough scandal
8:57
that he sort of remembered his northern roots, remembered who he was, and since then he has grown in confidence and grown in the confidence of his political ysis
9:06
which is much more radical and much more wide than anything Keir Starmer has ever said And so I hope because it in all our interests whatever our politics it is in all our interests for a prime minister to succeed rather than to fail I hope
9:21
that he knows who he is, got a strong sense of himself and a strong sense of his project
9:26
and that he'll be able to explain himself clearly enough for the rest of us to get some sense of it
9:30
and therefore move forward. And does that work with the backbenches of his own party when he
9:36
has to force some pretty difficult decisions down their throats. Well, again, Matt, you're asking
9:42
all the good questions here, I have to say, oiling up to you on air. So first, I think the first big
9:50
bump he's going to have is, you know, I looked him in the eye and I said, do you yet know who
9:55
your Chancellor of the Exchequer is going to be? And he looks back and said, no, I don't
10:00
But he's going to have to take those decisions very soon, really. Do you think he was telling the truth on that
10:06
I think so. I hope so. I don't know. Who knows? I know that he could be because there are some very, very powerful forces tugging in different directions. A very, very powerful force for Ed Miliband, said to be the guy who can make the Treasury really work for Burnham, understands where all the levers are
10:24
but also perhaps the man who could look soft left Labour backbenchers in the eye and say listen guys
10:32
you know where I come from you know my socialist politics I say we have to reform we have to reform
10:38
welfare and if I say it you know it's true and can lead them through the lobbies to do that
10:42
and in turn therefore reassure the bond markets that this will not be a Labour government committed
10:48
to ever higher levels of spending so that's the case for him and there's a very strong case being
10:53
made by people like Wes Streeting, that actually you need a chancellor who can defend Burnham against the bond markets
11:00
who is more pro-business, who is more trusted by business and by the markets
11:04
So this battle is going on the whole time, and there are lots of other names in the frame as well
11:08
Douglas Alexander, I wouldn't forget, by the way, current Scottish secretary, also knows the Treasury very well
11:15
also has built businesses of his own and should not be underestimated in this
11:20
Yvette Cooper, et cetera, et cetera. So there's a real battle going on. But I think when he finally announces his cabinet, presumably around the time that he walks into number 10 himself later this month, there is going to be an awful lot of noses out of joint, a lot of disappointed people, a lot of irritated, angry people briefing against him. And that will be a difficult moment for him. There's no doubt about that
11:46
Final question, Andrew Marr. Do you remember that scene where Donald Trump and Keir Starmer celebrated the signing of the trade agreement and Trump held in his hand, I don't know, 15 pages of this agreement and then dropped them or allowed them to be dropped to the floor and Keir Starmer automatically dove down to pick them up for Donald Trump? What would Andy Burnham do in that situation
12:08
laugh I think first of all look at Trump maybe pat him on the shoulder and then
12:14
lean down and pick them up in a kind of there you go old man I'll look after you way
#news