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This is a catch-up version of James O'Brien's live, daily show on LBC Radio from the 23rd of July, 2026. 00:00 – Has Burnham run out of options on prisons? 51:42 – How have people been so easily persuaded that London is a hellhole? 01:36:57 – Mystery Hour Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Three minutes after ten, listen, I sometimes look at your comments that come into the inbox
0:08
before I get on air when I've given you a vague idea of what I'm planning to talk about
0:12
Of course, I always reserve the right to talk about something completely different
0:15
Many, many are the times that I've heard something in the news bulletin and thought
0:19
now we should probably be talking about that actually. Or just had a sort of rush of blood to the head and changed course entirely and somewhat randomly
0:26
It's something of a cross for my colleagues to bear, and indeed, I suspect, for you
0:31
But I do sometimes look at the things that you send me, which sometimes, and I say this with the greatest love
0:37
they come from a place of simplicity. So I'll be offering up something for our joint contemplation
0:43
that is almost certainly complicated, and you will get in touch with..
0:47
Sometimes you may even write simples at the end of your message in a little tribute to those meerkats
0:52
So how do you deal... Well, you just build more prisons, James. simples except it's not is it you don't solve a problem today with something that might be online
1:02
in two years um and similarly you know string them up or deport them or this or that or the other
1:08
there is such a small matter of the actual law to prevent some of these things from happening and
1:13
the reason why our attention is focused on the problem because it is inevitable absolutely
1:19
indubitably a problem of early prisoner release at the moment is because of the case of PC Andrew
1:26
Harper two of whose killers are being considered for early release and that is something that has
1:33
not only offended public sensibilities but much more importantly it's really upset his widow
1:39
Lissy Harper and and that that is important to remember because these two murderers these two
1:48
killers, um, are not going to be kept in jail as a consequence of a prison that opened in
1:58
two years' time. Or they are not going to be kept in jail for longer as a consequence
2:02
of, um, deporting more people, or, do you see what I mean? The problem is in our minds
2:09
because of the urgency of this situation, which means there are two conversations here
2:15
considering that at this time yesterday I didn't think there were any. This marks something
2:19
of a U-turn by yours truly. There are two conversations here. There's the long-term question
2:25
which is probably actually quite simple. If you want to live in a country that sends a heck
2:31
of a lot of people to jail and doesn't do a very good job of rehabilitating them
2:35
which of course increases the likelihood of re-offending or recidivism if you're a fan like I am
2:39
of fancy words then you just send more and more people to jail and you build more and more jails you maybe even go down the american route and privatize
2:48
them and charge judges with sending as many people as possible to jail because then the people that
2:51
own the jails make more money than they would if you didn't send people to jail and we'll be here ad infinitum so so that's the conversation that um i i guess is are currently answerable and
3:06
answerable in quite easy ways. But the conversation that is being provoked by
3:14
PC Andrew Harper's case is not one that can accommodate those answers
3:20
So, you know, imagine, if you would, that these two men, two of Lissy Harper's
3:26
husband's killers, are due to be released tomorrow. And she has understandably accused politicians
3:34
of making decisions from behind a desk that will have real and lasting consequences
3:38
for victims' families like mine. And then you come to what I would describe cautiously
3:44
as an uncomfortable truth, and that is you cannot... I don't think you can change the law
3:51
according to public emotion. You know, the law is a fairly consistent mistress
4:01
If you have committed a certain crime, then you get a certain sentence
4:05
and just because two identical crimes prompt a very different emotional response
4:14
in the hearts and minds of the public doesn't mean that you can change the sentences
4:19
or change the laws or change the imposition of the sentences that have been handed down
4:25
Am I making sense? What I mean is that like you, my emotions are much more easily excited
4:34
by the story of PC Andrew Harper, not just the fact that he was a public servant
4:38
going about his duty, and like all police officers, when he leaves the house in the morning
4:43
he and all his loved ones know that he may not be coming back. I suppose technically that's true of everybody
4:48
but in the case of a police officer, you don't need me to explain why that's a particularly acute fact
4:57
But also the circumstances of his death, which were brutal and gruesome and hideous
5:01
and the ease with which we can look at his killers as being somehow subhuman because of their conduct that night
5:09
and all of those things that sort of remind us that there is a feralness beneath the surface of every human
5:17
no matter how civilised they appear to be. A theme which somewhat improbably pops into my mind
5:23
as a consequence partly of having watched The Odyssey last night which is every bit as good as all of the critics are telling you
5:30
an absolutely magnificent film. The only three hours in your life that will go faster than those three hours
5:35
are the three hours that you spend with me every day. But the feralness that is below the surface
5:40
even of the most outwardly civilised of people can be felt, can't it, when you're looking at a hideous crime
5:46
and thinking to yourself, well, yeah, actually, you know, throw away the key
5:53
String them up. Whatever sort of figure of speech you prefer. This is, of course, how deeply irresponsible politicians
5:59
can persuade some of us to abandon our own human rights, because that's the only way that you can treat people
6:06
who you think you deserve it without any civilized input. It's the only way you can go back to sort of medieval systems of justice
6:14
is by surrendering your own human rights. But, of course, they never add that bit
6:19
Perfectly reasonable to be opposed to human rights legislation, unless, of course, you're a human
6:24
in which case, if you're opposed to it, you are also an idiot
6:28
and I don't really see I suspect if I ever get to the end of my introduction this morning
6:34
that I'll be throwing the floor open first to people with experience of
6:38
or knowledge of or time in our criminal justice system I think your answer is in the first instance
6:44
unless of course you're a sort of philosopher of social ethics you'll be particularly welcome as well
6:50
but that is probably going to be the place that we go to first
6:55
for the very simple reason that justice must be blind. Justice has to be blind
7:02
You can't treat these killers differently from other killers because we have been more moved by this killing
7:09
I think newspaper editors understand this, but I've got no beef with them for sticking it on the front page
7:14
I've certainly got no beef with the poor woman widowed by this killing, Lissy Harper
7:20
Of course her feelings are important and relevant and should be reported
7:24
But sometimes with a media campaign you wonder what is supposed to happen next Are we calling for sentences to be imposed differently according to how moved we are by the crime that being committed
7:39
So, you know, it's the police officers. There's an argument there, definitely, that people who kill police officers should face a slightly but measurably different scale of justice
7:52
the scales of justice should be weighted even more heavily against people who kill police officers
7:57
You could make that point, and you could probably apply that to early release. So already we've got the beginning of an answer to the question
8:03
that I will eventually get around to asking you. But you can't really generally..
8:08
I mean, if this man had been defending his own property, if Andrew Harper had not been a police officer
8:14
but he'd been defending his own property, and he had died in such hideous and callous circumstances
8:20
we would feel similarly emotional. We would be more moved by that killing
8:25
than we would by some others. Look, for good or for ill, I'm not casting myself as some sort of paragon of moral virtue
8:31
I respond more viscerally to some crimes than I do to others. There's a reason why the idea of a little old lady getting mugged
8:39
is somehow more powerful than the idea of a middle-aged man getting mugged
8:44
It's just one of those things. It's just something about evolution. probably, we may examine the reasons for it
8:52
on another occasion, but a police officer being killed in the commission in the line of duty
8:56
it hits harder than other killings, but the sentence doesn't and the prisons are full
9:06
I heard David Gork this morning, on with Nick was he on with Nick? Yeah, I did hear it with Nick
9:12
talking about how you can't do this you cannot so imagine, I mean, I don't know what you want to imagine
9:20
I like a bucket, but maybe we need to think of something when I say I like a bucket, I'm referring to the ogies
9:25
not to any student habits or anything like that but we're thinking about a bus with seats on it
9:30
and they're now standing room only you know when the driver on the bus won't open the front door
9:35
until he's counted how many people have got off the back door because the bus is at legal capacity
9:42
that includes the standing room so most prisons in this country are already accommodated
9:46
most prison cells in this country are already accommodating more prisoners than they were
9:51
designed to accommodate. So the bus pulls up at the bus stop. This doesn't happen very often in my
9:57
neck of the woods, but it happens once or twice a month, depending on other variables. The bus
10:02
pulls up at the bus stop and you're looking at it and you're thinking, oh, flip it, hey, it's rammed
10:06
Shall I wait for the next one? Or I'm definitely not going to get a seat. And then the doors don't
10:10
open. The driver sits there waiting to count how many people have got off so that he can decide
10:16
how many people he's going to let on. Now, you can't let anybody on
10:20
until you've let some people off. It's easy to visualise a bus, more easy, perhaps, than it is to visualise
10:25
an entire prison system, but the principle is exactly the same. The driver cannot let anybody new onto the bus
10:35
until some other people have got off the bus. And that, in a nutshell, is our prison system
10:40
Listen, it is a consequence of 14 years of Tory rule. That's not an opinion, that's counting
10:46
But it is also a consequence of sending too many people to jail
10:50
It's also a consequence of letting our attitudes to crime and punishment be set by rabid right-wing tabloid sensibilities
10:57
for the best part of 40 years. You look at other countries, which are arguably, quotes
11:02
more civilised, end quotes, and you see much better results. You see re-offending rates much lower in countries
11:09
where prisoners are treated with more compassion and understanding, more compassion and comprehension
11:14
Now, some people will hate that. I'll check my inbox in a minute and there'll be somebody there who hates the idea of treating prisoners
11:20
with a little bit more sort of compassion and comprehension. But it depends what your goal is
11:26
If your goal is to reduce offending, to reduce crime, then we're not doing it right
11:31
Anybody or almost anybody in the system will tell you that. But that's not the point
11:35
The point is the bus is full. And you can't get anybody else on it until they've let some people off
11:41
So, Andy Burnham has chosen early doors. Of course, in Daily Mail language
11:47
he's been forced to review early prison release. No, he hasn't. He's chosen to review early
11:53
Just for the record, an early prediction. In fact, I think we've got a new jingle
11:57
Have we got a new jingle? OK, I think I've got one for you, actually
12:01
It's just popped into my mind, and we can come back to this every time that proof of it is provided
12:05
So here, for the very first time in history, it's going to start raining men
12:09
No, sorry. For the very first time in history, here is... Mystic Jim
12:18
I like that one. Is that a real harp key? I like that. That's nice
12:22
Okay, here is the right-wing media approach to Andy Burnham for the next two years
12:29
Everything he announces that costs money, whether it's a cap on bus fares
12:33
whether it's a cut in business rates, or whether it is... What was the first one
12:37
The cap on bus fares, the cut in business rates, or whether it's a reduction in your electricity bill
12:43
abolishing VAT on your electricity bill, the right-wing media will somehow simultaneously
12:47
accuse him of not being able to afford what he's done and also not having gone far enough in doing what he's done
12:56
So that is what we will call, moving forward, Burnhamism. The Burnhamism from the right-wing media will be
13:02
oh, I can't believe he's done that, he hasn't got the money to do it, and then in the same breath they will say
13:06
oh, I can't believe he's done that, He should have spent much more of the money that I said 10 seconds ago
13:10
that he hasn't even got. And that is the first ever... Mystic Gym
13:17
Which brings us back to the prisons. And the fact that Andy Burnham has chosen to review
13:23
the early prison release scheme. And he will know, as he says that, two things
13:27
He will know how powerful it is for a woman like Lissy Harper
13:31
the widow of PC Andrew Harper, to talk about politicians making decisions from behind a desk
13:36
that will have real and lasting consequences for victims' families like mine, her words
13:41
and simultaneously he will know that you can't get more people on the bus
13:46
until the driver has counted how many people have come off. So what's he going to do
13:53
What would you be more comfortable with? 03456060973. And if you're in the system, if you're in the criminal justice system
14:04
you will possibly have a more informed insight than I do. I mean, the bit missing from a lot of the coverage
14:16
not all of it, to be fair, but the bit missing from a lot of the coverage
14:20
is that we always release prisoners early. No prisoner ever serves the tariff that is handed down in court
14:26
unless they misbehave in jail. There's always an opportunity to come out early
14:31
And you know that when you read a story, it always contains the line, will probably serve X years
14:37
So it's always going to happen, regardless of what the crime is. But it just happens a little bit, it happens even earlier now
14:46
It's something that Alex Chalk explained to Rishi Sunak before the last general election, and Rishi Sunak decided to ignore it
14:51
because there was a general election around the corner and it wasn going to be his problem for much longer It something that David Gawker former Conservative Justice Secretary confirmed this morning The problem is not one of politics The problem is one of arithmetic You can get someone else in until someone else has been let out
15:07
So, what are Andy... I'm going to ask you a question that's a little bit old school, actually. What are Andy Burnham's options
15:15
here? Because yesterday, I didn't think he had any. And by 11 o'clock today
15:18
I may be certain that he doesn't. But at 10.19, I'm thinking
15:23
he must have some options. Otherwise, what's the point of ordering a review
15:28
What are Andy Burnham's options here? And what would you be comfortable with personally
15:32
0345 6060 973. James O'Brien on LBC. It's 21 minutes after 10
15:40
and I'm going to, a little bit of a spoiler alert. It's not quite a mystic, Jim, although thank you for all the nice words about my new jingle
15:46
It deliberately goes on for a little bit too long. That's what I like about it. It's got that..
15:51
A lot of the things that spring immediately to mind will not work as answers to the question that I'm asking
15:57
because they're already in place, but I'm going to keep them up my sleeve until you suggest them
16:00
and then I'm going to point out that our emotional response to this particular story is such
16:06
that it's actually clouded out the intellectual ysis that the Prime Minister is going to have to deploy
16:10
21 minutes after 10. For example, one texter has already said, well, the bus passengers could sit on each other's laps
16:17
They already are in prison terms. I mean, there are Victorian prison cells designed for two prisoners that have got four in them
16:25
And worse, the situation of prison overcrowding is off the scale. There are approximately 89,573 places in our prisons
16:34
and in March of this year, there were 87,334 prisoners. So you do the maths
16:41
Michael's in Brentwood. Michael, what would you like to say? Hello, James. I think that what we have to do is twofold
16:48
Firstly, we need an immediate fix, and we also need a long-term fix to make sure this doesn't happen again
16:55
So we need to be more imaginative with our sentencing, what we sentence people to, who we sentence
17:03
But in the short term, 35% of the prison population is non-violent, non-sexual crime
17:10
They should be the target of the releases. They are. Because that's already a lot of space
17:15
But then how are murderers getting out? They don't need to be let out
17:18
Because they're on a different scale. So if you're a non-violent or non-sexual offender
17:24
then under the Sentencing Act of 2026, the earned progression model, means that instead of serving 50% of your sentence
17:31
as long as you keep your nose clean, then that now comes down to a third
17:37
But if you are a sexual or a violent offender, you're on a different progression model
17:44
So you now have come down to a half. So there's already a fairly clear, measurable distinction between violent and sex offenders and non-violent criminals, non-sex offenders
17:56
But my immediate feeling on that is that the non-violent, non-sexual offenders, you could take that down further
18:03
You know, they're still going to be tagged. So they're sort of less than a third. They will sort of less than a third of their sentence
18:09
I mean, you know what the Daily Mail will do with that. you find a shoplifter or you find a burglar
18:14
or you find, you know, someone who's turned over 30 houses in a month
18:17
and they're getting out after less than a third of their sentence, Michael. There'd be another phone-in
18:22
Yeah, but if they're tagged, they can't do anything. You can tell where they are, when they are
18:27
But the other side of that is... And that's also true of sexual and violent offenders, of course
18:32
It is, but the crime they've committed is more... Emotive. Emotive, isn't the word
18:37
It's emotional. It's more emotive. to the, yeah, and they'll be going back to... And hurting a human
18:41
I mean, again, we actually, often in this country, punish people whose offence involves money
18:45
more than we punish people whose offence involves human beings. But your first point is on that list of things
18:52
that most of us don't realise are already in place. It's already in place
18:56
A behaviour-based system, tiered in England and Wales, as of the Sentencing Act, which the last government brought in
19:02
means that you serve a third of your sentence rather than 50%
19:07
with the rest of their sentence served under strict supervision in the community
19:10
with the help of electronic tagging, and those serving time for sexual or violent offences
19:15
where the current automatic release stage is at two-thirds of the sentence
19:18
will automatically become eligible for release at the halfway point, provided they have not committed serious breaches of prison rules
19:27
So, I mean, this is Andy Burnham's problem, not yours, because the suggestion you've made is already in place
19:32
but what I would say is you can still further adjust the non
19:36
sexual non-violent offences because in all honesty who would you rather have released back
19:42
into your community? Somebody who has a tendency to violence or it already does that
19:48
I mean I take your point it's not, I mean it stands
19:52
you can absolutely, we can leave it on the board but I
19:56
think there's a calculation here and all you need to do, because of course
20:02
what we began this conversation recognising is that some crimes affect us emotionally
20:06
more than others, which is why PC Andrew Harper's killing is absolutely
20:10
intrinsic to the conversation that we're currently having and indeed to Andy Burnham's decision to
20:14
review the practice. But there's another calculation in play, there's another metric
20:18
and that would involve another example, whether it's an exception that proves a rule or not doesn't matter, but you
20:24
would simply find a non-violent non-sexual offender whose story pushes our button
20:30
tugs our heartstrings, annoys us, boils our blood and he's now coming out or she's now coming out
20:36
less than a third. You'd have to bring it lower than a third of the handed down sentence
20:41
And you might be comfortable with that, I might be comfortable with that, but by the time the right-wing media is finished
20:46
the narrative will be that you can commit burglaries in this country, you can rob phones in this country
20:52
you can steal people's old ladies' pensions in this country and as long as you don't actually hit them
20:57
then you're going to be released after ten minutes. and that will be how it is sold to the public
21:01
And again, as I say, you might be able to live with that and I might be able to live with that
21:06
but the country wouldn't live with that and the pressure on Andy Burnham would be identical just from a slightly different angle
21:11
Johnny's in Perth. Johnny, what do you reckon? I reckon education's the only way to solve a problem
21:16
in education from within the jails. Rehabilitation, like... And I know that's not a quick fix
21:23
I know that's not going to fix things overnight. What is Andy Burnham... I mean, I suppose government after government
21:28
it swings from left to right, doesn't it, with liberal governments, and that's why the model in Scandinavia is so different from our experiences
21:36
Well, that was going to be an example that I raised. Go on, tell me more. Recidivism is highest amongst short-term prisoners
21:44
Yeah. In Scotland, if you're sentenced to less than four years, there's, I think, a 70% chance that you will re-offend
21:51
Whereas if your sentence is above four years, that drops considerably. So, I mean, I don't know if it's correlation or correlation
21:58
But, you know, the last caller made a perfectly good suggestion, but actually we put it through the lens of your statistics
22:05
and the shorter the sentence, the higher the likelihood of recidivism. So shortening the sentences admittedly of non-violent, non-sexual offenders
22:11
even more than they have been already is actually going to be making the bus queue at the next bus stop
22:18
get longer than it was before. Exactly. I think the shortening of sentences of non-violent and non-sexual offenders
22:23
I'm not saying we should shorten those ones, but I saying the shortening of those is exactly as you pointed out it gives people a sense of I can steal this and I just going to get a week present Andy Burnham got to announce something before Christmas let say
22:35
for the sake of argument. What's that going to be? Well, in my opinion, I think he needs another taxable interim
22:40
I don't think there's enough tax money as it is to do the things that the Labour government have promised to do
22:44
No, I mean, you've gone big picture, which is great, but I'm thinking more on this specific early release issue
22:50
He has announced that he is ordering a review. The review will have to have a conclusion sooner rather than later
22:56
Long-term fixes notwithstanding, what on earth can the current Prime Minister announce
23:00
in the relatively short term that will address all, if not all, then any of the problems
23:05
that we're currently contemplating? I've got to put his hands up and admit that he can
23:10
A little bit of honesty. That's where I was yesterday. That's why I said yesterday, Johnny
23:14
there's no phone-in in this. Yeah. Because, I mean, what can he do
23:19
I honestly think that's the only way to go. anything that he says can be taken
23:22
by his opponents, his enemies, and they can be twisted because he is
23:26
never going to sit keep with it. And if there is a possibility of success
23:32
or if there is a plausible solution to the problem, then he can deal with the brickbats and the abuse
23:36
from other politicians and from the right-wing media. I mean, it is extraordinary for people who were involved in the last government
23:42
to be trying to score political points out of this, whether they're in the Conservative Party or
23:46
Reform UK. Absolutely. But that's how politics works. nothing to do with me. It's like you hand
23:53
someone a bomb, and the bomb goes off, and you say, God, they're so bad at looking
23:56
after bombs, these people. They're absolutely shocking. I can't... You just gave them a bomb. You gave
24:01
them a ticking time bomb, and it went off in their hands. That's your fault, not theirs. Yeah, but it's not how politics works
24:06
But Johnny could be the voice of honesty. There's nothing he can do. He'll have to put his hands up in the air and say
24:12
I need solutions to it. And Burnham is kind of grasping some nettles at the
24:16
moment. He's insisting on rewiring things, doing things differently. I wonder how comfortable you would be with this being one of the things he does differently
24:25
He's going to say, look, this is horrible. It breaks my heart. But we can't do anything about it in the short term
24:30
You're going to have to trust me to fix it in the long term. And the only way to do that is root and branch reform of our criminal justice system
24:36
The eradication of all the backlogs that have been in place since long before COVID. And a genuinely humane approach to sentencing that stops pandering to right-wing, ignorant right-wing sensibilities
24:48
and panders instead towards the urgency and importance of reducing recidivism and or re-offending
24:53
depending on how much you like fancy words. Here's Dominic Ellis with your headlines. James O'Brien on LBC
24:59
Three minutes after ten is the time. Stories, I don't think there's quite..
25:03
Well, I think it does, but when I get a new jingle, as I demonstrated yesterday with the London one..
25:10
Missed it. When I get a new jingle, I tend to get a bit trigger-happy
25:15
I tend to use it a little bit too much. So I did definitely say to you a while ago that all of the online far-right, largely racist propaganda about my hometown of London
25:24
or two hometowns, really, a kid-a-minister tends not to appear in Elon Musk's fever dreams quite as much as London does
25:31
at least for now, I said to you that reality has to reimpose itself
25:35
The fact that this is the best city in the world, in the view of many, many people who don't even live here
25:40
has to reimpose itself soon over all the racist online nonsense, including, of course, stuff propagated by politicians who pretend to be patriotic
25:49
And it is now happening, both in terms of crime figures and in terms of investors
25:55
and in terms of people who could live anywhere they wanted in the entire world
26:00
such as their financial and social mobility, choosing to live in London
26:06
even with sort of slightly incurious and ignorant commentators claiming that all the rich people are going to leave
26:13
because, what do they say? You can't wear a Rolex in London anymore or something
26:20
So they would have to explain to you why people are now fleeing jurisdictions
26:24
lower tax jurisdictions such as Italy, Dubai and Singapore and settling here
26:31
But more on that later. And we'll be joined by the Mayor of London because we've also got very specific figures for London crime
26:37
that have been posted in the last 24 hours. and they of course, as indeed I predicted, but it doesn't merit a mystic gym
26:44
apparently crime rates have fallen again in London. West End phone thefts have plummeted
26:50
It doesn't mean they've disappeared. People will still be robbed. People will still lose their phone
26:54
But the attempts of people like Elon Musk and Nigel Farage, who the mayor has described as captains of disinformation
27:01
to paint our town as a dystopian hellhole, are falling apart like a cheap suit
27:07
Not that Nigel Farage knows anything about cheap suits. since he received that secret £5 million gift from the Thai-based billionaire Christopher Harbourn
27:15
It is 10.35. Back to the prisons. Geoff's in Chesham. Geoff, what would you like to say
27:20
Hiya, James. The reason I'm calling is because I currently work for the prison service
27:24
OK. I've listened to what's been said by a number of the guests on
27:29
and I feel all of it hits a small part of what's important
27:33
which is resource and which is the fact that years and years and consecutive governments
27:37
have fundamentally just underfunded the basic services that are needed to keep a prison
27:43
functioning. And what we've seen is the introduction of this earlier release scheme. Now
27:48
in principle, at the time that early dawn was open and introduced, it needed to happen
27:51
We were running out of space. That's maths. That's not politics. That's not an opinion
27:56
That's arithmetic. That's maths. Yeah, exactly. Arithmetic. And what you say about
27:59
cells, not enough cells for each individual, it's been like that for years
28:04
It's been like that because establishments were built to house one individual within a small cell um and as the population has
28:12
expanded and limited limited measures have been put in place to take sentences out of custody and
28:18
into the community in a safe manner um what you've ended up with is grown men sharing cells that are
28:24
no bigger than a small shed toilet two to two beds and i heard i believe it was ben kentis show or
28:31
or Tom Swalbrick's one or the other, talking about this, and guests were coming on and saying, you know
28:36
I don't care, lock them up and throw away the key. Now, with the greatest of respects, even if I were to say
28:42
OK, I agree with you, there are some criminals that are so bad
28:46
they should never see the light of day. We're not actually locking them up and throwing away the key
28:52
We never have. We're handing a set of keys to thousands of staff up and down the country
28:57
who are tasked with having to care for these individuals, support them, bridge deficits in previous care
29:06
from social care, from housing, from the council to family, all of the other protective factors
29:12
that a normal person might have absent there. And the system in itself, in its desperation to create space
29:22
because of pure arithmetic, has created a system where, just so I can explain
29:29
you may have an individual who receives a three-year sentence from court for whatever
29:34
Maybe a violent crime may not be. Ordinarily, they would have done half in custody and had half on licence
29:41
where they would have been subject to major restrictions in what they can do
29:45
when, who they have to see, probation, appointments they have to go to
29:50
That would usually be for a period of half their sentence. following all of these changes and attacks on short sentences for the right reason because we
29:59
recognise we need to move some of these to community-based, restorative justice-based punishments
30:06
As a result of that, we are bringing people back into prison on recall
30:12
who've already served 18 months and as a result of being sentenced, would have had the support of OMU, prison and offender managers, probation, substance recovery workers
30:21
We're bringing them back in for seven days. We're bringing them back in seven days for breaches, which include missed appointments
30:28
which may include that they walked onto a road that they shouldn't have done on a tag
30:32
It may be that they've just gone out and they've committed another crime because the support wasn't there in the first place
30:37
to give them housing. It is as simple as that. Now, the practical effect of that isn't just a moral one
30:44
The offender management unit processes the prisoners who come into the establishment and leave
30:50
One person coming in for a week creates the same amount of paperwork
30:55
as one prisoner coming in for two years. But you're not telling me that within seven days you can organise CAF3 housing, a substance recovery pathway, meet the gate support to ensure that that prisoner makes it to their appointments
31:09
We're releasing prisoners and telling them, phone the council in the morning, they'll give you a place. And it is as simple as that. We cannot do it any longer
31:17
We can introduce reform on top of reform and more reform to address the reform
31:22
But all of that reform is not put into an empty space
31:26
we have layers and layers of things that you can and can't do and the price of coercion in prisons
31:33
has gone up it used to be simple go on 20 officers fella bang up okay sir no problem
31:40
because there were 20 officers now you have maybe four or five 22 to 40 year old officers who've got
31:46
maybe three years in the job and frankly don't go to work to be spat at or punched bang up bang up
31:52
so let go behind your door? No. What do we do then? And how many people do you need behind you
31:57
This is why you mentioned the figure of 20, because before, I mean, I'm going to pick Chris Grayling as an example
32:03
Before Chris Grayling got his hands on the prison system, I remember people, prison officers
32:08
ringing me to tell me that they won't go into a situation unless they've got 10 bodies behind them
32:14
Now there's four of them. And what's happened is after benchmarking, a lot of the experienced staff left
32:20
And so that kind of dynamic security question that they would have to ask themselves
32:24
was based on a fundamentally different set of circumstances and fundamentally different set of incentives
32:30
The way I've always seen it is every interaction I have with both prisoners and with staff
32:34
is an exchange in some way. I'm working as part of that organisation and I need to achieve some legitimate aim
32:39
that's been set upon me by the organisation. Now, our purpose is quite clear
32:44
Keeping custody those committed by the courts and help them lead law-abiding lives in and out of custody
32:50
It's down simple. Yeah, but that's woke, mate. That's woke. That's woke
32:54
Liberally, that's the world we live in now. You're not allowed to say sensible things like that. I don't think that this is party political
33:00
You mentioned Chris Graylin. I think he tore it apart. Yeah, he did. But equally, we had Jack Straw, a Labour justice minister
33:05
privatised first prison. Yeah, you're right. And I think, do you know what? When we're talking about bringing into national ownership
33:13
steel, for whatever reason, whether you agree with that or not, how can we not nationalise the public monopoly on coercion
33:19
How can it ever be justified? that a private company holds any form of monopoly on the planet
33:25
We've seen what happens in the United States of America, and most people in this country won't be aware of it
33:30
but it is absolutely chilling. So, I mean, this is the call
33:33
That's why I come to work every day to speak, in the hope of speaking to somebody like you on a subject
33:38
that I'm finding opaque at best, impenetrable at worst, and you are that caller, so thank you
33:43
I'm sorry that you're so well qualified to make such a powerful contribution
33:47
But in terms of what Andy Burnham can announce before Christmas, he can announce things that are going to happen
33:52
but he can't announce anything that's going to change. So this is coming from a prison officer
33:56
I think the first thing that we need to do we need to decide who we are as people
34:00
Now you'll get a lot of calls and say who is this wokey and who is this fella. I don't believe my..
34:05
You'll tend not to ring me anymore Jeff but they'll pop up later. I mean I was very close
34:11
because I was thinking what reception will I get? But it has got to the point
34:15
where people will say I just want something based in reality. we don't have the physical resource we don't we work we're all bounded by by the resource that we
34:26
have available to us in an ideal world you could deliver a totally rehabilitative establishment
34:31
with sufficient resource but equally in an ideal world you could you could when i say ideal i mean
34:37
in an ideal resourcing situation you could deliver a totally coercive prison institution
34:43
and that would function and wouldn't result in anywhere near the harms or dangers
34:47
You mean a real kind of leg irons and rations type scenario
34:53
I mean, if you put 30 officers onto any wing in any prison in this country, you could have everyone march in single file and they'd do as they're told
35:00
But the cost of that would be too significant. It's very expensive to coerce other people with doing exactly what you do
35:06
And you need to create these incentives to get people to participate in that system. That's reality
35:10
Why did you... No, I know it's not. You realise I was using that word tongue-in-cheek, don't you
35:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, good. I'm just double-checking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did you go into the prison service
35:24
Because I stupidly thought I could make a difference. You are making a difference, I'm sure
35:28
but maybe not as big a difference as you could. You make a very small difference to the individuals
35:32
that you see every day, both staff and prisoners. Yes. I would say 80% of the prison population
35:39
are probably neurodiverse in some capacity or suffer with mental health problems
35:44
Substance misuse is a major thing, and a lot of the adverse childhood effects that you might refer to
35:49
when you talk about social care or children or schooling, all of these things exist exacerbated in the prison, magnified
35:57
All of the early support has been absent in most cases, and where it hasn't been, these individuals have often suffered serious trauma to get there
36:06
And they shouldn't be there. It also doesn't mean it should be incredibly comfortable
36:10
but it shouldn't work in a situation where a trade-off has to be made
36:14
between safety and purpose. And fundamentally, we are seeing safety and security
36:21
in establishments windle at the expense of unstructured time out of the cell just to keep people on a level
36:28
that they don't want to open that door, come out and smack one of us in the face
36:32
It's as simple as that. Well, I'm sorry that you have to live with that. And I'm sorry that it is so widely unrecognised
36:39
particularly at times like this, when understandably and inevitably emotive examples of a much, much bigger and more complicated problem
36:47
are used to fire up the public. Because you have to deal with outside work
36:52
you have to deal with the consequences of that as well. Geoff, you're a good man. Thank you. Of course, one thing we could touch upon
36:58
in answer to some of these questions is the importance of actually reducing crime
37:03
You know, the number of people being sent to jail reduces according to the number of people
37:08
being convicted of crimes. and that's why the mayor of London I suspect will be in rather chipper mood
37:12
after this when he joins us to tell us more about robberies thefts and vehicle
37:18
crime in the capital all seeing a significant reduction Sadiq Khan seem to be Lord Khan of course joins me after this James O on LBC 1048 This will sound a little bit odd but I was hoping Burnham might do something to help hairdressers actually
37:38
I was having a conversation with my own hairdresser about this, only on Tuesday
37:42
and he was certainly delighted that Burnham mentioned hairdressers by name, by trade, in one of his pronouncements
37:50
and there was optimism in that salon that the announcement today about hospitality venues
37:57
pubs, clubs and the smaller live music venues, may extend to hairdressers
38:04
But it's early doors, you know, wait and see. There may be something else coming up. We are just waiting to clear the line, I think
38:10
for the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, who is joining us to discuss crime figures
38:14
that are entirely at odds with the ludicrous propaganda punted online, largely by people based overseas, of course
38:21
but also by people from this country who should know better than to tell lies about our own capital city
38:28
because lies, of course, have consequences. And the Mayor of London is with me now
38:33
I should congratulate you first, Sadiq Khan, on your imminent peerage. It's a long way, isn't it, from a tooting bus driver's son to the House of Lords
38:44
Oh, listen, I mean, my mum's over the moon. It's an honour for the family, really, to see me soon hopefully be in the House of Lords
38:52
It means I can use that place to be a better mayor
38:56
but it's obviously a source of huge pride to my family, not just my mum, my siblings, my nephews, nieces
39:02
and all those people who have known me over the last 55 years. I'm incredibly proud, but it's always nice when you make your family proud, as you know
39:11
Maybe not quite as proud as that. And now to the figures. You've been quite outspoken in the past, and indeed more recently, about the attempts to portray our city as a dystopian hellhole
39:23
Your phrase, not mine, with people like Elon Musk and Nigel Farage, you're describing as the captains of online disinformation
39:31
The official figures rather give the lie to an awful lot of what is an old phrase, isn't there, that a lie is halfway around the world before the truth has got its trousers on
39:41
So let's hear more about the figures and then let's address the question of whether or not they will actually do much to address the perceptions, the false perceptions of London
39:53
Look, one of the joys of a democracy and it's a responsibility I take seriously is to be held to account
39:58
I think it's right and proper for people like me, the prime minister and others to be held to account and challenged in a range of issues
40:04
One thing that is unacceptable is for there to be disinformation, misinformation and lies
40:10
I mean, ysis shows over the last couple of years, there's been a 200% increase in stories on social media saying London is dangerous, London is in decline
40:21
At the start of this year, we set out figures to do with violence across the board, which showed the huge strides we'd made in London
40:30
homicide at an all-time low. By the way, lower than Berlin, Barcelona, Brussels, Paris, Milan
40:39
Madrid, Toronto, every single state in the USA. The fewest teenage murders this century
40:46
Today, new figures published shows a significant reduction in neighbourhood crime across London
40:53
35,000 fewer neighbourhood crimes. That means 35,000 fewer victims of robbery, of theft, of vehicle crime, of burglary
41:04
Here in the West End, where I am, a reduction by 50% of phones being stolen
41:10
So a combination of police hard work, City Hall investment shows we are, on any metrics, a safer city
41:17
But earlier on this year, I was really pleased to receive international recognition
41:21
The Nobel Prize for Cities, the Lee Kuan Yew Prize, said that we're the best city in the world
41:25
And so you can understand why if you're somebody who's a nativist populist
41:30
you've got a city that's liberal, that's progressive, that's multicultural, and is incredibly successful
41:34
That's why they hate us. I mean, alongside this, there's research, and this is published in Rupert Murdoch's Times newspaper today
41:41
research commissioned by the property developer London Square, finding that 64% of working-age people in New York, Singapore, Dupuy, Hong Kong, and Paris
41:50
would choose to live in London if given the chance, with nearly half of them thinking that this city
41:55
offers the best career opportunities for skilled professionals, also citing its stability and safety
42:01
I mean, I understand what you've just said about... I mean, also you don't mention your personal role in the process
42:06
You know, a fully integrated, three-time winning Muslim mayor is their worst nightmare in many ways
42:13
when they're trying to pretend that we can't live together in harmony and that we can't recognise humanity above ethnicity, religion
42:19
or any other label that we put on each other. But it is surreal, right
42:23
We've touched on this before. I mean, you will meet people. I was with the guy that founded Wikipedia not long ago
42:28
Jimmy Wales. I mean, he moves in elevated circles and he's bumping into people in Silicon Valley
42:33
who are saying to him, oh, I don't know how you can live in London. It's not just online racists who've bought this bilge
42:39
It is decent people as well who've been sold a completely bogus picture
42:44
of our capital, of our city. Absolutely. And the problem with these algorithms
42:49
the way they work is they monetize hatred i call them the division dividend uh it's an outrage
42:54
economy and what's happening is that people now have set up bot farms to make money out of slagging
42:59
off uh london there's an industry there but also we now know there are state actors not just russia
43:04
in china but also maga backed influences in the usa and and my criticism is is not just of them
43:09
although i do criticize them but it's british politicians and the commentariat who jump on this
43:15
bandwagon and who should know better and i think it's unpatriotic by the way to slag off the capital
43:20
city when the evidence isn't there to slag yourself i'm more than happy to be criticized hold me to account you often do so to your listeners base it on evidence and facts not
43:28
misinformation disinformation and uh lies and it is a fact that i'm a proud londoner i'm proudly
43:33
english i'm proudly british but yes i am muslim of pakistani heritage but don't hold that against
43:38
my great city um we'll move on to slightly bigger or not not bigger but more national issues now is
43:44
Andy Burnham going to be a better Prime Minister than Keir Starmer? I think people
43:51
know my friendship with Keir Starmer. He's the guy that rescued our party from almost oblivion after we
43:56
lost in 2019. I think Andy's building on the progress Keir made over the last two years, and I think
44:02
the first week has been fantastic for London and the country. I'm inundated
44:08
from messages from the pubs, bars and restaurants in London. Grateful about the
44:14
refuge coming around the corner with the reduction in business rates. It's really important
44:19
to build on that. We have a cost of living crisis but also a cost of doing business
44:23
crisis as well. You didn't answer my question. I know you know that
44:27
but for the benefit of people listening, is he going to do it? Do you think he will prove to
44:31
be a better Prime Minister than Keir Starmer did? I hope we're not going to get in two years' time people calling for
44:37
Andy to go. I think the issue is this. I think in this
44:41
country, generally speaking and across the globe, we give too much credit
44:45
and do some sorts when somebody's doing well you know say they're doing
44:49
incredibly well so when somebody's doing not so well we slag them off too much as well
44:53
I think you know cool calm heads is what we need and I a friend of Andy as well I should also declare I think he had a crack in first week and I looking forward to him building on that When did you last speak to him On Friday face and we text we obviously text and stuff
45:07
Any worries about London losing out as he shifts power, money and focus to the regions
45:15
I've had a number of London businesses, London politicians, and people in London
45:20
expressing to me their concern about an Andy Burnham premiership because the concern would be London loses out
45:27
All the conversations I've had with Andy and all the reassurances Andy gives me means I can say to you with confidence Andy Burnham will be a pro-London Prime Minister
45:35
He gets the importance of our capital city. He understands we contribute £4 of every £10 the government coffers receive
45:41
But also he knows we could do even more with more powers and resources
45:46
And the conversations I've had with Andy Burnham and his team are really encouraging for him
45:50
recognising that London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland all need more powers from Whitehall. The words take back control, if they're going to be meaningful
46:00
must be cities, towns and regions all get more control. Speaking of control, Anas Sarwar of
46:05
course going into the Lords in order to serve in Andy Burnham's cabinet. You are, as we discussed
46:10
at the outset of this conversation, also being elevated, which of course could free you up if
46:15
you decided not to run as mayor of London again for a role in a future cabinet of Andy Burnham's
46:20
I will ask you for, Keith, what was it? I'll ask you for the 713th time, are you going to run for London mayor again
46:30
For the 715th time, I'll respond by saying, I always answer that question in my third year
46:36
You know, I joke about being a mayor for seven terms, but, you know, it's always in the third year, in term one, term two and term three
46:42
and probably term four and term five, when I'll announce my intentions. So that's another no. And just in conclusion, two stories today. The one about crime figures, and that doesn't really touch on homicide. The announcement today is more about street crime, neighbourhood crime, things like that
47:00
It's the neighbourhood crime, yeah, yeah. I know that really blights communities
47:05
I mean, of course, I'm really proud of the progress made on homicides and teenage murders more to be done there
47:10
But it's the robberies and the thefts and the neighbourhood crimes that are really an issue for many, many people
47:17
I know, for example, people are welcome. There's been a reduction by 50% of phones stolen in the West End
47:22
13,000 fewer phones stolen, which means 13,000 fewer people. The misery of your phone being stolen
47:28
we've calculated according to this data 35 000 fewer robberies thefts vehicle crimes residential
47:37
burglaries that means fewer victims of crimes this is really good news none of us is complacent
47:42
uh the met or ourselves but it shows the difference uh you know record investment from
47:46
city hall plus the police working incredibly hard using the latest uh innovation data led
47:51
local police and the difference we can make but it's also you know good poke in the eye
47:55
for those that do our capital city down. Finally, we both mentioned your faith
48:01
Figures released today show that one mosque is attacked in Britain every five days
48:06
This comes from the government's own partner in monitoring anti-Muslim hatred. That's a figure that is not really reflected in news coverage
48:14
or perhaps in political will. Does central government do enough to address the very specific issue
48:22
of Islamophobic attacks, attacks on mosques? I think we need to do more
48:29
That includes the mainstream media as well To make sure we report
48:33
When there's been hate crime Particularly towards minority communities I'm really ashamed
48:38
That we've seen an increase in our country Of anti-Semitism, anti-Jewish hatred
48:41
Homophobic crime going up But also anti-Muslim crime as well And the problem is, James
48:49
When people don't report anti-Muslim hatred There's an additional grievance That British citizens of Islamic
48:55
faith feel that we saw recently a horrific incident in scotland uh in edinburgh which was
49:02
not reported in the mainstream uh media and that's not good for uh community cohesion it's not good
49:08
for raising awareness but also it's not good for allyship and i'm hoping uh that this is a wake-up
49:13
call for all of us to be better allies of minorities who are receiving end of hate crime
49:17
but also report the good and the bad and and the ugly and i'm afraid the great news is i think this
49:23
the best city, the best country in the world to be a minority, to be a Muslim
49:27
But the bad news is we've seen an increase in anti-Muslim hatred. And by the way, it's not helped by the algorithms
49:33
and the way Elon Musk and his accolades and others like him behave
49:37
in having this division dividend, putting out negative stories, misinformation, which leads to prejudice, hatred
49:42
and the sort of stuff you're talking about. I lied. That wasn't my last question
49:46
A quick word on the business rates cut. A suggestion in some quarters
49:50
that it's not enough to make a meaningful difference to the hospitality industry, although, of course, simultaneously it's better than..
49:56
Oh, it's a start. Right. Honestly, it's a start. We've seen this week some really good progress
50:00
in terms of cost of living being issued, being addressed, but this is the cost of doing business issue
50:06
And, you know, more than half a million Londoners, more than half a million work in hospitality
50:10
They've had a horrible few years with the pandemic. But also, listen, business rates going up
50:14
the national insurance increase, it all adds up. And so this is respite for them
50:20
They can plan now for next year If they were thinking about closing down, they can not close down
50:24
If they were thinking about expanding, they can be expanded. And there's more, I'm hoping, good news to come over the course of the next few weeks
50:29
but also in the budget that John Healy will deliver later on this year. Last word to Kenny. He says
50:35
Can you ask Mr Khan how he got into the House of Lords? As far as I can see, he's not incompetent and I've not heard of any corruption
50:40
He'll feel so out of place. Well, there's no PPE fast lane, I'm afraid
50:47
for those of us with a certain background to get in the House of Lords. But look, just on a personal note, it's just I can't tell you how happy my family are
50:55
Now, that may mean nothing to people across the country. But, you know, when you're the son of immigrants, your mum was a seamstress, worked incredibly hard
51:02
Your dad, your listeners better know this, drove buses for more than 25 years
51:07
You're from a councillor's state, gone to state primary and secondary school
51:10
Speak like I do. To be told by the prime minister you're going to be in the House of Lords is a pinch me moment
51:17
And I'm very proud. and can I just thank all those who've sent me good wishes. I try to respond to those that have personally when I can
51:24
and those that have an apology, I'll get back to you soon. Well, possibly for the last time then
51:28
Sir Sadiq Khan, many thanks. Next time we speak, it may be a different moniker, a different title that I need to attach to you
51:34
Many thanks indeed for your time this morning. It is now, speaking of time, three minutes after 11
51:39
James O'Brien on LBC. It is six minutes after 11 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
51:46
I should have done this during the news, but I just need to have a quick word with Keith. We're going to be using that word quite a lot
51:51
Right, so what are we going to do? Are we going to get to the end of a sentence? Or when it feels like a natural junction
51:58
Or is it more about whether or not you're paying attention? Which one
52:01
It's that one, is it? It's the paying attention. Are you paying attention now? What time are you having your penguin
52:07
All right, I'll chat. Nice one. Oh, he's got a rocky road today. Nice. Seven minutes after 11 is the time
52:13
We are going to be having a conversation now about London. London
52:17
because the figures that have been released I can't do that, I can't hijack
52:23
myself like that I frightened of saying it now so as you just heard from the mayor of this town you just heard from the mayor of this city
52:36
the mayor of our capital, phone thefts in the West End. Look, they're still high, don't get me wrong
52:40
but they've fallen by 50% over the past year. And I think it's worth pointing out
52:45
that none of the people who pretended... The lady who's running for London Mayor... London
52:52
Stop it now. For reform... I'm actually becoming a victim of my own..
52:56
Leila Cunningham, she was always wanging on about how unsafe it was. It's a really weird thing to do, to campaign somewhere on the ticket that it's..
53:04
On the ticket that's not true. On the ticket that, I want to be mayor of this city because it's absolutely awful
53:11
So why don't you just move? If you truly think it's just awful, and it isn't
53:16
All of the evidence proves that you're wrong. Why don't you just move? It's just weird, isn't it
53:22
Or it's a bit a touch of the Baden-Ox and you're just spending your entire life online
53:26
and concluding that some account based in Bangladesh posting pictures of crimes committed in I don't know where and I don't know when
53:35
but pretending that they've all been committed in London. London? They're all doing this and they're all doing that and you can't
53:40
Don't pay this much attention, Keith, all right? There's a balance. Have another rocky road
53:45
There's a balance to be struck. It is just weird. It's profoundly unpatriotic behaviour to slag off unfairly and inaccurately the city that you live in, let alone a city that you seek to lead
54:01
So phone thefts are down by half. You also heard that 14% fall in neighbourhood crimes in the 12 months to June
54:08
This sits alongside the homicide figures that the mayor of London referred to, that Sadiq Khan referred to a moment ago
54:15
because the homicide figures are measurably lower than every single state in the United States
54:22
let alone the long list of European cities that he referred to
54:27
And remarkably, people who are not idiots have ended up believing this
54:36
So complete is the propaganda, so powerful is the propaganda. People who are not idiots..
54:42
And the problem I've got now is if you send me a message that says something like
54:46
blimey, have either of you ever actually been in London? Then you're almost certainly not from this town
54:52
I live in Brentford, and yet I still get bombarded with claims
54:56
I can't possibly know what it's really like in London because I live in Leafy Chiswick. What do you think London is like
55:01
If you work in Leicester Square and you live in West London, what do you think we do
55:05
Do you think we've got like a deck downstairs that we press a button, like a holodeck
55:11
What was it called in Star Trek? You press a button and I end up back home again
55:16
And I never walk through the streets of the city. I never walk through parts of town that I don't live in or don't work in
55:22
How do you think it works? If you're playing football in the park or you're playing tennis in the park
55:29
and you walk past gatherings of young people. What do you think happens
55:34
All of these people who never come to this town and claim that, oh, well, I don't even live in Chiswick
55:38
That's the hilarious thing about it. online lies, the great scheme of things
55:43
online lies about me living in a place I haven't lived in
55:47
for three and a half years are pretty tiny but it's as if, the reason I
55:51
mention it is not just to be self-referential, although that's probably part of it, the reason I mention it is
55:57
because it speaks to a determination to believe that London is awful
56:01
I really want to focus in on that word, there's a determination, so I'll get a message
56:07
from someone who's never been here, say you've got no idea what London's like because you live
56:11
in leafy Chiswick. I remember the first time I got a message
56:14
after I moved to Chiswick from Ladbroke Grove, which is sort of on the fringes of
56:21
Notting Hill, so one of the most multicultural and diverse parts of the entire
56:25
country. And I don't know the statistics for Chiswick, but I remember getting a message
56:29
off a racist. Back when it was quite rare, you know, I think even
56:33
before Brexit, when racism was still quite shameful and people were still a little bit reluctant to do racism in public
56:39
to sort of point out publicly that they don't like seeing black faces or brown faces
56:44
in television adverts, to treat a crime committed by a brown person
56:48
completely differently from how they treat a crime committed by a white person, to tell lies about anti-white racism with a straight face
56:54
We lived in a different age, a different era. And I got this message
56:59
And obviously I can click on messages. So for a tiny moment, I thought that the..
57:04
I thought I was getting several messages with the same phrase in them
57:08
but it wasn't. It was the same person constantly using this phrase. White enclave
57:14
You live in a white enclave. Or enclave, I don't know how you pronounce it
57:19
Enclave, is it? You live in a white enclave. I thought, what does that mean? This bloke thinks I've actually chosen where to live
57:25
according to the ethnicity of my neighbour or my postcode. And yes, because they would, I suppose
57:33
And it's such a weird position to adopt, isn't it? Because if you live in a country where racism has been relatively endemic
57:39
although, as Sadiq Khan pointed out a moment ago, it's still a heck of a lot better in most of this country
57:45
than it is in lots of other places in the world, then you would actually, the only circumstances in which you'd gravitate
57:50
towards people of your own ethnicity would be if you were of an ethnic minority. It's not that long ago, there were posters put up in Birmingham
57:59
by the Conservative Party saying, if you want an N-word for a neighbour, vote Labour
58:03
If you arrive in a country like that, then you're probably going to want to live next door to people who look like you rather than people who don't
58:08
But that would be an explanation for why ethnic minorities have come together
58:14
and created communities where more people look like them than look like me
58:19
And, of course, upsets honest Bob Jenrick when he gets off a bus in... when he steps out of a chauffeur-driven car in Birmingham
58:24
and can't believe how many black or brown faces he can see. It doesn't surprise me, it doesn't shock me
58:30
it doesn't upset me, and it certainly doesn't disgust me. But the determination to believe that London is awful
58:39
that's the bit that interests me. So there are two elements to the conversation we're about to have
58:45
One is about how widespread this is, where you have encountered it, how far it has gone
58:52
How far it has gone. And that's why the comments that Jimmy Wales
58:57
the co-founder of Wikipedia, made when I interviewed him on Full Disclosure towards the end of last year
59:02
have kind of haunted me. Because if somebody like that, you would imagine perhaps naively
59:10
is not knocking about with the dregs of the English Defence League
59:16
or with online foreign commentators telling lies about our city, you would imagine that somebody like Jimmy
59:23
leads a fairly full and rounded existence, but not necessarily one which involves encountering the victims of online propaganda
59:34
not least because, as a serious player in the online world, you would imagine that he and his peers would have a much clearer understanding
59:43
of how much lies, how much disinformation, how much misinformation is out there
59:48
than an ordinary schmuck like me. Do you see what I mean
59:51
If you're like a big tech bro or you're a big online figure
59:55
then you're going to know more about how much hogwash is being perpetrated
1:00:00
out there, in this case particularly about London, than anybody else. But that turned out not to be the case, because I asked him where this mythology was coming from
1:00:09
um, that's particularly perpetrated in America, a mythology about, about London. I've texted a couple of, uh, you know, people I know in the tech industry, I see them, you know
1:00:20
tweet something about London being a completely lawless hellhole, and I'm like
1:00:24
you know like my kids walk to school like like come and come and visit me yeah i even looked up
1:00:31
this i mean i live in a nice part of town but i looked at the stats and it's like the third highest
1:00:35
for crime and i was surprised to hear that but i'm like we can go to the worst part of london
1:00:40
not at 2 a.m mind you sure because it's a big city fair enough but like you can go anywhere in london
1:00:46
and it's it's not a lawless hellhole and you know we that's not to say oh okay like when when there's
1:00:53
the rise in knife crime, okay, we've got to be serious about that. But we also have to understand that's not, you know
1:00:59
it's not people, hundreds of people stabbing each other in the streets
1:01:03
It's just like there are these problems that any big city would have. And it's lovely
1:01:08
And a murder rate that's a tiny fraction of all America. Also, I particularly chuckle, you know
1:01:13
hearing this from anyone who lives in San Francisco, where there's a serious problem with mentally ill homeless people
1:01:20
I mean, you're not likely in London. It can happen in any big city to be accosted on the street by, you know, someone screaming at the sky
1:01:28
That's day to day in San Francisco. So why? Why are people determined to lie about London
1:01:37
So many people, including British politicians. I just want your answer to that question
1:01:41
Some of them may be obvious. Some of them may not be. 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
1:01:48
why are so many people determined to lie about London? Not just in the really obvious and egregious ways
1:01:56
but also in the small and subtle ways. London is imperfect. There is crime here
1:02:00
Don't get me wrong. I've had two colleagues who've had their phones nicked in the last two weeks
1:02:05
It is an occupational hazard of living in a city, and London has a particular problem with it
1:02:11
partly because of the phone companies not shutting things down as effectively as they do
1:02:16
I'm told, in other territories. but it's the determination that fascinates me
1:02:20
Why do people like Leila Cunningham, running for mayor of London, like Nigel Farage
1:02:24
why do they want you to believe that London is awful when pretty much everybody who lives here
1:02:28
will tell you that it isn't? What is the motivation? 0345 6060 973 is the number that you need
1:02:36
And the second question is, what's your Jimmy Wales story? So what is the..
1:02:42
Because I now on Blue Sky get quite a lot of messages off people from outside London
1:02:46
and saying, we've just been down for a weekend, James. Where's that Shakira Law that we keep hearing about
1:02:51
I've just been, I've just had a, and London at the moment, the last couple of weeks, since I got back from holiday and just before I went away
1:02:57
is just magnificent. It's a tiny little bit too hot, but since the weather has calmed down a bit
1:03:01
there's so much going on. And listen, I know it's dependent upon how much
1:03:06
disposable income you have, how much of the stuff, some of the stuff you can access
1:03:10
but it is a city that just feels like a world beater
1:03:13
You walk through the streets of several different parts of London and you just feel that you're in a..
1:03:18
And actually, even today, on the bus going through Ealing, looking at the supermarkets, the Persian supermarkets
1:03:23
with all the fruit and the veg outside and the fella sweeping up and all the fresh produce
1:03:28
I mean, the low end of excitement about living in a city in London, alongside the high end
1:03:33
like being able to go and watch Bruno Mars at Wembley last week. I mean, it is such an obviously magnificent city
1:03:39
I mean, it is such an obviously magnificent city. that you must be, I mean, you have to be so committed to the lie
1:03:47
to believe that it is awful, that I'm fascinated by that commitment
1:03:52
Why do people really want, including nice, normal people, you know, in, I don't know, Preston or Macclesfield
1:04:01
who have just kind of, yeah, it's awful, that London. Why is the determination so acute
1:04:10
03456060973. And then the second question, just give me your example. Your example of what I encountered with Jimmy Wales
1:04:18
So you're literally talking to the founder of Wikipedia, one of the biggest players in the history of the internet
1:04:22
and he's got mates back in America who are saying, oh, crikey, I don't know how you can deal it in London
1:04:28
And we both sit there looking at each other going, what the fudge is going on? How on earth has this been allowed to happen
1:04:34
Answer, online lies, algorithms, all the things that the Mayor of London mentioned
1:04:38
But question, what's your example of it? what's the maddest thing you've been told about London
1:04:43
by somebody who doesn't live here or who hasn't been here and that might be some fun there
1:04:49
the more important question, the more serious question is, where does the
1:04:53
determination to believe that this city is some sort of dystopian hellhole come from
1:04:59
why does Elon Musk, if that's an easier way into it why does Elon Musk want to portray London
1:05:03
as a dystopian hellhole when five minutes on the streets of this city would prove to you
1:05:09
that it really, really isn't. And it is, of course, measurably safer
1:05:12
than every single state in the United States of America. James O'Brien on LBC
1:05:18
It is 21 minutes after 11. And I found that quite cathartic then
1:05:23
because you sort of... You know if someone slags off your family
1:05:27
you've got a real problem with them, right? But you slag off your own family all the time
1:05:31
Not slag off, necessarily, but you can say things about your own family
1:05:35
that you wouldn't want anybody else to say. You wouldn't even want them to agree with you
1:05:39
would you it's a bit that's how i feel about my team so if i say you know old keith it's a bit
1:05:44
bit i don't know if i want to say anything actually rude about keith because that wouldn't really be
1:05:48
fair but i said you know i might i might i might tease keith a bit you you're not allowed to just
1:05:52
because i tease you're not you're not family you're not family yeah you're not allowed to tease keith
1:05:59
or if you do it must be very affectionate you can't cast aspersions on his professionalism or his
1:06:04
attention levels or anything like that it would be absolutely unacceptable i wouldn't allow you
1:06:08
you to criticise Eleanor? Certainly not on this programme. I don't even let you criticise colleagues
1:06:12
on this programme with whom I don't agree about anything. Even if they live by
1:06:16
different rules and different codes. I live by my own moral code. Always credit
1:06:20
people when they've conducted an interview that we play out on the programme and
1:06:24
always shut down anybody who criticises a colleague live on the air. It's just basic
1:06:30
courtesy, isn't it? It's common decency. It's professionalism. Team playing. All my sort of watch words
1:06:37
But if But we can do it. We can slag each other off
1:06:41
You should hear how Eleanor talks about Keith when the lights are off. It's extraordinary. But you can't
1:06:46
Do you see what I mean? So, I mean, we can slag off London. London
1:06:50
But you can't if you don't live. How dare you? It's just outrageous for you to start slagging
1:06:55
It's particularly when you are potentially impacting upon tourism. You're impacting upon our sense of safety
1:07:03
But previously when I've addressed this issue, previously when I've addressed this issue
1:07:08
I've felt a bit defensive to the point where you have to keep acknowledging that there are problems
1:07:14
I did it a bit just then of course phone theft is high but murder
1:07:19
is historically low so you know of course people wander around wearing Rolexes of course some people wearing Rolexes get robbed you just feel that you almost need to keep acknowledging the negative while promoting the positive And I don know why we do that
1:07:36
Because, you know, there is no place in the world that's perfect, not even Kidderminster
1:07:42
So you just, and you acknowledge problems. We do it more than ever on this programme
1:07:46
You say there's a problem here, there's a problem there. We've given the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police quite a robust ysis over the years
1:07:55
But he's just right when he says that crime is down. And the mayor is just right when he says that these weirdos
1:08:00
spreading disinformation and misinformation about our city, have kind of had the box seats, haven't they
1:08:07
They've kind of had the upper hand. It's as if the lies, as ever, have got halfway around the world
1:08:11
before the truth has got its trousers on. I suppose I'm wondering why those of us who know the truth and tell the truth
1:08:17
haven't risen to this challenge more passionately. Haven't risen to this challenge more enthusiastic
1:08:23
It's probably because we're Londoners. London? And you just sort of go, yeah, all right, mate
1:08:28
You jog on with your weirdness and your racism. We'll just carry on living in a wonderfully multicultural and diverse city
1:08:34
And I wonder if it is actually that simple. Here's a racist
1:08:38
Here's a city that proves that racism is ridiculous. Therefore, the racist hates the city
1:08:43
And if you happen to own a social media platform, say, then you can engineer it to promote racism
1:08:49
and to tell lies about the place that actually proves the absurdity of your ideology
1:08:54
25 after 11 is the time. Tom's in Southampton. Tom, what's going on? Why the determination to believe these lies
1:09:02
I think that cities represent something which can be exploited by people
1:09:10
especially when they're the largest city in the country, like London is. if they paint London as something really, really bad
1:09:18
for whatever reason, you know, in the 1800s, it was anti-urbanism was the big thing
1:09:26
Was it? Not because of... Yeah, not because of culture. Like Ludwigs? No, it was because of the..
1:09:32
We were the first to industrialise. Yes. So there was mass depopulation from the countryside into cities
1:09:40
and anti-urbanism as a movement sprung up, not because of multiculturalism, but because of largely poverty was the main complaint
1:09:51
And what that movement said was basically, you have to be afraid of cities because they create poverty
1:09:57
and if you live in a town now, one day you might be a city and that will be bad
1:10:04
So join the anti-urbanism movement. Qui bono? Who benefited from that? Well, because, I mean, I've got a theory that I'll expand on a little later about why people like J.D. Vance and Elon Musk are trying to do this
1:10:16
and indeed Donald Trump are trying to do this to London, that goes beyond mere multiculturalism and diversity
1:10:22
But who benefited, who was kind of pulling the strings of the anti-urbanism movement
1:10:26
Because you've just introduced me to it. I know nothing of this. It's really, really interesting. It was, yeah, so in the 1800s, it was largely landowners who lost their peasantry to urbanization
1:10:38
Ah, okay. And they, you know, all of their workers go away
1:10:41
And now all of a sudden they've got no one to farm the fields because everyone wants to go work in a factory
1:10:46
In current times, there's a similar dynamic happening where the cultural right present London as an example of London is the biggest city
1:11:00
London's the most developed furthest along. so it's first. Your town, your city
1:11:07
in another part of the country, that's what your town will be like
1:11:12
in the future. So vote for us, because we will make sure
1:11:16
your town doesn't become London. It doesn't matter that London's not like that
1:11:22
because they can just say it is. And that's your sort of UKIP-y thing
1:11:26
about doing well in constituencies where there isn't any immigration, because in the constituencies where there is a lot of immigration
1:11:34
everybody's relatively, well, not just relaxed, but most people, many people are very enthusiastic
1:11:39
or entirely ambivalent about it because it's just life. But if you've successfully persuaded people to be scared of people
1:11:45
who do not look like them, then suggesting that soon your town will look like one of those towns
1:11:49
where everybody's different, that's a wonderful political weapon. That's what it is. It's an anticipatory fear
1:11:57
That's what it is. It's a fear that's not necessarily present in their lives
1:12:03
They may not have had immediate experience of it, but it's an anticipatory fear
1:12:09
This might happen to me. So I want someone who's going to protect me from it if it does
1:12:15
And the more immediate that fear becomes, the closer they feel that it's just around the corner
1:12:21
It's about to happen. It's all going to get bad. And because there's no evidence of actual badness
1:12:27
except, you know, crimes and things that are going to happen in any big city
1:12:32
whatever its demographics are and whatever its population is, that's when you have to start lying about things like no-go zones and Shakira law
1:12:38
Because if you're trying to convince someone in the boondocks that they're about to be taken over by Muslims
1:12:44
you have to pretend that Muslims have taken over somewhere else. Oh, yeah. I mean, I also think that this kind of..
1:12:53
I would say it's an issue that the left has struggled to interact with because, I mean, I'm left-wing
1:13:03
We kind of instinctually sort of get uncomfortable and are afraid about confronting it
1:13:08
But, you know, we are one of the most multicultural countries on the planet
1:13:15
Integration is a super hard thing and, you know, you can do it badly and it can go wrong
1:13:20
I think for the most part the UK is really really well integrated
1:13:25
especially if you look at our marriage rates between ethnicities and religion, we do really really
1:13:31
well on that kind of stuff but there is some social integration stuff
1:13:35
we could do better I think for example I mean yeah What about the determination
1:13:43
because we're looking at the benefit that's why I like that phrase, I haven't used it for a while
1:13:47
it's probably, my classics are kicking in again after watching the Odyssey last night
1:13:52
although this is Latin, not Greek. The old qui bono thing. You can see why Farage might want to portray London dishonestly
1:13:59
Oddly, even his colleague who's running for London mayor wants to portray London dishonestly
1:14:04
which is an interesting position to adopt. And you can see why right-wing politicians
1:14:09
in the United States of America would lie to their voters that, you know, London is awful
1:14:14
and if you don't follow us, we will end up like that. But the determination of an ordinary guy or girl on social media or beyond, you know, what comfort do they get from it
1:14:27
Or what payoff do they get from it? I suppose I'm asking, I can see what the con men are getting out of it
1:14:33
What are their marks getting out of this? This kind of comes from, when we see problems, this is chin-stroking human nature stuff, but sod it
1:14:45
When we see problems, we really want to understand why they've happened
1:14:51
And quite often there isn a solid reason why And that really really upsetting for our brains So we put one there instead We put one that feels good that makes sense
1:15:05
You know, oh, COVID wouldn't have been as bad if the government had just prepared better
1:15:09
Yeah. You know, oh, Hitler wouldn't have been as bad if we just started the war earlier
1:15:15
When actually what this comes from is a kind of historical grief
1:15:20
where we look back at things and we go, core if only we'd done better. And then
1:15:25
someone comes along and says, you could have done better. It happened
1:15:29
for this reason. It's a touch of the old symbolism, isn't it? Oh yeah, big time
1:15:34
Simple answers to complicated questions, which is the sort of bible of populism. Yeah, yeah
1:15:39
And so I, it's still not quite there. You're brilliant at this. Is it your field of
1:15:43
study or something like that? Or are you just an enthusiastic amateur? No, I'm
1:15:47
sorry, darling. I'm just a massive nerd. There's nothing wrong with that, darling
1:15:51
No. But But I get an element of what you've just described
1:15:56
but I'm sitting in, let us say, Kidderminster. Sure. And I've been..
1:16:02
Last time I came to London was ten years ago to see a show. And not only do I believe that London is a dystopian hellhole
1:16:10
but I'm going to argue with Londoners who are telling me that it isn't. That second bit, where does that come from
1:16:16
There's a kind of... We're really good at believing things. we're not very good at changing our minds
1:16:24
Yeah, okay. That's where this problem comes from, is that once you start really believing in something
1:16:30
you see evidence where you can, you create evidence where you can
1:16:36
and you ignore evidence that doesn't suit you. And that's true everywhere. Because we're really good at excusing it
1:16:40
This is brilliant. And that's not confined to bigots and racists or any political affiliation
1:16:45
I'm seeing it at the moment with quite a lot of Keir Starmer admirers. they've kind of, you've made your decision
1:16:51
and that is now your position, and you will not be moved from it, regardless of what effort or evidence is provided
1:16:58
That I am, I believe Keir Starmer was hounded out unfairly of our inbox
1:17:03
It's not full of it, but I'm just using them as an example that this is not confined to any constituency
1:17:08
or political demographic whatsoever. We all cling furiously to our opinions because there's something almost embarrassing or shameful
1:17:16
about having to abandon them, because that means we were mugged. That means we were conned
1:17:20
Exactly. It's the kind of thing we have to be really consciously aware of
1:17:25
is if you think something and you believe in something and you come across something that doesn't match your belief
1:17:32
your immediate reaction is, this is wrong because it doesn't fit in
1:17:39
What you should do is you should have that and go, this is wrong, this doesn't fit in
1:17:43
And then afterwards you should then go, but how does that exist
1:17:48
What is it about that? Because it's a choice, isn't it? Either this is wrong or I'm wrong
1:17:53
And what are most people going to pick when given that relatively, well, that completely binary choice
1:17:57
Either I'm wrong or this information is wrong. I'm going with the information being wrong
1:18:02
even though it's coming from people who have, you know, oodles more experience of the issue
1:18:09
under discussion than I have. Who just thought of Brexit? Oh, just me then
1:18:14
Tom, great stuff. What an absolutely brilliant call. That's why we are four minutes late for the headlines with Dominic Ellis
1:18:20
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.37. Coincidence, I think, that these two stories appear on the same day
1:18:28
One looking at the incredible vitality of London. A report entitled What the World Thinks of London
1:18:36
suggesting the capital's appeal rests on far deeper foundations than tax alone
1:18:41
Listen, it's been undertaken by a property developer. who, of course, or at least it's been commissioned by a property developer
1:18:47
who, of course, have a vested interest in attracting people to London
1:18:51
or in portraying London in a positive light. But if Rupert Murdoch's Times are going to run it
1:18:58
when they have been certainly party to some of the propaganda about our capital city in recent months
1:19:05
then I'm certainly going to draw upon it as well. The cultural pull is extraordinary
1:19:09
Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney, all expanding their British operations. Pinewood and Shinfield Studios operating at capacity at the moment
1:19:18
See, it's not just the prison services that are full, so is our film industry
1:19:22
Film London estimates that about £9.5 billion will be invested in productions across the wider capital area
1:19:29
in the next five years. If you don't believe that, believe the Hollywood Reporter
1:19:32
that said recently London has become more Hollywood than Hollywood, partly because of tax incentive, Premier infrastructure
1:19:40
and a deep pool of creative talent. head beyond the movies to sport
1:19:46
You've got Wimbledon, you've got Wembley, culture, you've got incredible museums, you've got galleries, restaurants
1:19:51
many of which are free, of course, not the restaurants, obviously, but the museums and the gallery
1:19:55
Culture, sport, entertainment. There's a better city in the world. I am yet to hear of it
1:20:01
And that is why people like George Clooney and Tom Cruise are spending significant amounts
1:20:06
of time in this country. Courtney Love is preparing to become a British citizen
1:20:10
Lena Dunham, who even did a Netflix series based on her London life
1:20:15
Ryan Gosling, house hunting in the capital. John Lithgow, relocating because he's filming the new Harry Potter TV series
1:20:21
Olivia Rodrigo, fallen completely in love with London when she was in a relationship with the British actor Louis Partridge
1:20:28
And I could go on. So that's, if you like, the shallow end of why London is lovely
1:20:34
The deep end, of course, looks at the crime figures released today, which portray, what you would use, is plummeting
1:20:41
Phone thefts in the West End of London have fallen by 50% over the past year
1:20:45
These are the Metropolitan Police figures, not the government's or the Mayor of London
1:20:50
The figures also suggest that neighbourhood offences, which include theft, personal robbery and vehicle offences
1:20:55
have gone down by 14%. And listen, apart from on-phone theft, these numbers were not particularly high before
1:21:03
It has always been an amazing city. I said to you some time ago
1:21:07
I started noticing, when I was still on Twitter, I started noticing these weird accounts
1:21:13
that were dedicated to putting up footage of people of colour committing crimes
1:21:19
And some of them were obviously not in London. Some of them were obviously in other countries
1:21:24
You could tell by the signage on the shops and the establishments in the background
1:21:29
It was that simple. And I think the reason I didn't take it seriously was because it was that simple
1:21:35
You could find, in the blink of an eye, evidence that this was nonsense
1:21:38
It was long before we discovered that a lot of these accounts are run on the other side of the world
1:21:43
even in Muslim countries, because people have discovered that they can make a ton of money
1:21:47
by telling lies about Muslims online. And, of course, it tallies with the rise
1:21:51
of the serial criminal Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and his desperate groping for respectability
1:21:57
It rises with Farageism and the attempt to portray this country as a place where anti-white racism exists
1:22:03
I mean, that is beyond parody, that claim. In fact, it's not just beyond parody, it's beyond contempt
1:22:10
because in order to sustain that lie, you have to do things like ignore the family of Henry Novak
1:22:15
when they ask you to tell the truth about their son's murder. But some people are prepared to stoop that low, of course
1:22:22
And obviously to take it back to brass tacks my pet subject being that if you are benefiting from epic inequality and unfair redistribution of wealth then you have to keep the plebs away from the gates of your castle
1:22:41
You cannot have, it just began to see it during the Occupy Wall Street movement, you cannot have the penny dropping up and down the country, right across the world, that this is absurd
1:22:53
someone as rich as Elon Musk in a world, not just a country
1:22:57
where there's still epic poverty, is obscene. It's utterly obscene. It's utterly and obviously obscene
1:23:04
So what on earth do you do if you're terrified about people waking up to the obscenity of wealth distribution
1:23:10
You've got to inflame racism and particularly anti-immigrant sentiment. You've got to persuade people
1:23:16
that their situation is not the consequence of epic inequality. It's a consequence of immigration
1:23:22
so you put all your cards there you push all your chips onto that
1:23:26
persuade people that immigrants are the problem so how do you do that
1:23:30
if they're obviously not ah well you point at somewhere that proves your bogus point
1:23:36
but of course that place doesn't exist you certainly couldn't portray London honestly as a place
1:23:42
where multiculturalism has failed or where diversity is a negative or where
1:23:46
a man of faith the man of the Muslim faith, is the mayor of London and elected three times
1:23:55
but is also a tireless champion for the Jewish community, a tireless champion for all faiths, a true believer in diversity, equality and inclusion
1:24:05
And here it is working in spectacular international technicolour fashion. So you're Elon Musk, Donald Trump or J.D. Vance
1:24:12
What are you going to do? You're going to lie. You're going to say, oh, it's awful there
1:24:16
Don't go there. Oh, it's awful there. And look, here's some clips from Twitter of something awful happening somewhere
1:24:21
that we will say is definitely there. It's awful. It's that. It is, I think, that simple
1:24:28
11.43 is the time. Extraordinary text coming in on this, because you cannot really live here and arrive at any other conclusion
1:24:37
Yes, there's crime. Yes, it's imperfect. Yes, there are problems. Yes, there are going to be terrible, terrible things happening
1:24:42
But in the great scheme of things, as a utilitarian calculation, why would you want to live anywhere else
1:24:47
unless you don't like big cities. Because if you like big cities, this is the place to be
1:24:53
Anthony's in Newcastle. Anthony, what have you got? Hello, James. I spoke to you once before about your disabled son
1:24:59
but that's by the by. I was in London August last year
1:25:03
I'd been to somewhere called the Red Hill Dream Cruise down in Red Hill
1:25:08
That finished about 11 o'clock at night. I drove up through Croydon, crossed Tower Bridge
1:25:13
into the east end of London, because I went to get a bagel from the Brick Lane bagel shop
1:25:17
Oh, yes. So I've seen it online, and I thought to myself, I want to go there
1:25:22
So about one o'clock in the morning, mainly 15-year-old son arrived. We got with bagels
1:25:27
Nothing happened. We stood around talking to all the drunks who go out to the pub, and they were great lads
1:25:33
So we stood around and had a conversation. This was in the heart of one of London's
1:25:37
most infamous no-go zones, Anthony. Did you realise that you were taking your life
1:25:41
in your hands when you went to buy a bagel in Brick Lane? I didn't realise that, no
1:25:45
but the worst thing I did, I gave a perfect stranger my mobile phone, he took a picture of it
1:25:50
gives it back. It's a car thing, isn't it, the Red Hill Cruise
1:25:56
Yeah, it's a car thing, I went down and I've got an old BW Golf
1:26:00
which is what it's mainly for American cars, but it's a good trip out, you know
1:26:04
And do you and your boy love that kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, we do, it's a fair old run, you know
1:26:11
Well, next time you're in town, look up the Duke of London in my neck of the woods
1:26:14
in Brentford, because that's an amazing business. I don't fully understand. They do storage for incredible
1:26:20
cars, but on Sundays they have little rallies as well, and people turn up with amazing
1:26:24
cars, including the American ones, and things like that. And I mean, the big
1:26:28
bonus about coming to Brentford to indulge your passion for exciting cars is that you've got a very real chance
1:26:34
of bumping into me and Morrison's, mate. What's not to like? It's 11.46
1:26:40
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 11.49 and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
1:26:47
Should we do a quick Idiot's Corner? I don't think it's unfair, because you know that I can click on a message
1:26:52
and find out previous messages that you've sent to the studio, whether I'm on air or whether someone else is
1:26:57
So listen to this one. Oh yes, if you are a multi-millionaire, I should have checked with Anthony in Newcastle
1:27:02
who took his 15-year-old boy to a car fair in Redhill and then stopped off for a bagel in Brick Lane on the way home
1:27:09
at 1 o'clock in the morning in the middle of one of the biggest no-go zones in the history of the world
1:27:13
I should have checked with Anthony whether he was a multimillionaire or not, but I didn't realise I had to, mate
1:27:17
So this is from Danny. If you're a multimillionaire, London is fantastic
1:27:22
because you don't have to deal with the scumbags that now populate vast swathes of the metropolis
1:27:26
utterly deluded, living in his own self-created media bubble. Such a disgrace
1:27:30
And, of course, you can click on these messages and see what people have previously sent to the studio
1:27:34
So that message is signed, Danny. Every other message you've sent to LBC, mate
1:27:38
is signed, Danny, in Bolton. Why would that be? do you think
1:27:44
And it's the first time I've ever heard Brentford described as a self-created media bubble
1:27:49
but I shall pass it on to the other residents, you clown
1:27:53
10 to 12 is the time. I am told by Eleanor that we may have proof
1:27:58
of Mystic Jimery on the very day that the Mystic Jim jingle was first introduced
1:28:07
Mystic Jim. Because the prediction I made was that we would very soon be encountering simultaneous attempts
1:28:16
to claim that Andy Burnham was spending money that he didn't have on his policy announcements
1:28:23
and that Andy Burnham wasn't spending enough money that brackets didn't have on his policy announcements
1:28:30
And I made that prediction at about 10 past 10 this morning. Bethany Dawson, LBC's deputy political editor
1:28:38
has been at Kemi Badenok's speech this morning And I'm sure, Bethany, that you had more important things to do than keep track on mystic Jimmery
1:28:45
But here we are. So she did this press conference following Andy Burnham's announcement
1:28:50
that he would cut rates for pubs, clubs and music venues in England by 20%
1:28:55
And this follows his announcement of reinstating the £2 bus cap and also cutting VAT on energy
1:29:01
And it's safe to say that Conservative levator Kemi Baden-Ock was not impressed
1:29:06
The first thing that she did suggest, looking at Mystic Jimmery, is that she just cannot afford it
1:29:13
Here's what she said. Government has made nearly everything more expensive. But Andy Burnham's answer is to cap one price and send the bill somewhere else
1:29:25
But somewhere else is always someone else. A taxpayer, a business, a family
1:29:32
Someone will pay and they will pay in higher taxes. So Kemi Badenock there suggesting that the only way Andy Burnham can afford these new policies is by increasing taxes
1:29:43
But at the same time, she also said that his plans are not big enough and not good enough
1:29:50
And here is what she said on that. Cost of living pressures are real, but the problems go way beyond bus fares and VAT on bills
1:29:59
Families are struggling. Young people are worrying about whether they will ever earn enough to buy a home
1:30:04
Some are leaving the country in search of a better future. Businesses are closing
1:30:10
People are working harder but feeling poorer. I'm sorry, but going by what he's announced so far
1:30:17
Andy Burnham's ambitions for Britain are too small. So there it is
1:30:23
Day one, dear one of Mystic Gym. She has accused him of spending money that he hasn't got
1:30:34
and simultaneously accused him of not spending enough money. Did you write the speech
1:30:38
I didn't have anything to do with it, although Graham pre-empted it when he texted me at 11.06 this morning
1:30:43
to say, is anyone surprised that Kemi Bedanoff doesn't understand what's going on
1:30:47
Bethany, I gave you a slightly premature promotion a moment ago. Poor old Aggie Chambre goes off on maternity leave
1:30:52
and you are our political correspondent here at LBC and it's a pleasure to have you on board
1:30:58
your debut on the big show, but I hope not your... Just one thing
1:31:03
I don't know. When somebody else says mystic jimmery, it makes me feel a bit silly
1:31:08
Does that mean that it is silly and I'm not noticing and I need to hear a grown-up say it
1:31:12
before I realise how childish it is? Or is it something... Do you think there's something subtler going on
1:31:17
I can say that your mystic jimmery today did align with Kemi Badenock's speech
1:31:23
With events. Yeah, you can sort of feel how you... Think about how you feel about that
1:31:27
I'm going to sit with it. But it was an interesting speech and she was criticising the Prime Minister on day four for not having a plan
1:31:33
similar to what she criticised Keir Starmer for having. We should note that then Morgan McSweeney, his former chief of staff, did say that Labour did not have a plan for government
1:31:43
But there is this sort of narrative growing from the Conservatives that they like Andy Burnham
1:31:48
They have said that he seems fun. He seems, you can read between the lines, it seems as though Kemi prefers him to Keir Starmer
1:31:56
but she says that he doesn't have a grip on major issues like defence, like foreign policy
1:32:01
and larger issues of the economy beyond the cost of living. Indeedy. No PMQs, of course, until September now
1:32:10
so she will take these opportunities where she finds them. And just to be clear, she took questions, did she
1:32:14
She took questions. Because Nigel Farage has taken to announcing that he's going to be making statements
1:32:20
but doing it in empty rooms where nobody can ask him anything. We're in a funny state in politics where there is a sort of varying degree of press scrutiny of different politicians
1:32:29
Andy Burnham not yet having held a press conference since becoming indeed MP for Makefield
1:32:37
But talking to journalists. Talking to journalists. Kemi Bade not continuing to talk to journalists
1:32:41
Nigel Farage himself has not done a press conference. There's a slight, he's got other things to deal with at the moment
1:32:47
but that he has been doing press conferences or rather other Reform UK politicians have been doing press conferences
1:32:56
So maybe it's a symptom of summer recess but journalists are sort of finding themselves
1:33:00
in different degrees of busyness at the moment. Lucky us. Bethany Dawson, many thanks indeed
1:33:04
LBC's political correspondent who has been at Kemi Baden-Ock's speech this morning
1:33:08
Rather you than me. And there it is, the first proof, positive
1:33:12
that I am clairvoyant. It's a nice one there. I mean, we've got a bit too much going on
1:33:17
Nick Abbott, if you are silly enough not to listen to Nick Abbott on this radio station
1:33:21
or indeed to subscribe to Nick Abbott, which you can do now, a new development in the LBC
1:33:27
Armory, you can subscribe to Nick Abbott, get exclusive content, get everything that he does
1:33:32
delivered ad-free directly to your ears. Nick's the king of clip. Nick presses buttons and magic happens
1:33:40
Keith and Mia, we're just like enthusiastic amateurs, aren't we? Or we're like a Nick Abbott tribute act. London
1:33:46
See? Shaquille is in Bexley. Shaquille, back to the capital. In fact, let's give Keith a little round
1:33:51
Let's return the conversation now to London. Hey, James, you all right
1:33:56
Yeah, you didn't press the button there, Shaquille. What's on your mind? Nothing, I just..
1:34:01
What do you mean nothing? It's a phone-in show. You can't ring in and say nothing
1:34:05
Sorry, sorry, let me retake that. So I have actually never called in before
1:34:10
but I called in today to your show because I just wanted to say thank you. What for
1:34:13
As a British Londoner Muslim, from what I've heard over the years and what I'm hearing today
1:34:20
the way you speak about Muslims and London in general is so important
1:34:25
Well, there's a racist in Bolton who would disagree with you, but I'll take your gratitude very graciously
1:34:32
Where do you think it comes from? Why do you think people are putting so much effort into pretending that our hometown is some sort of dystopian hellhole
1:34:39
it's either coming from people that have never been here or it's coming from people that want to
1:34:43
divide us into us and them I mean you know I've lived in London my entire life
1:34:48
I've studied in central London I've been to I have family in east and north and west
1:34:54
and I can honestly say these things that they're putting online about London being run by Muslims
1:35:00
or being you know a hellhole or anything like that London is so far from that
1:35:06
like you know I feel like a lot of it's down to the fact that Sadiq Khan is the mayor as well
1:35:11
I feel like ever since he came into the office as London mayor, I feel like there's been an upturn of far-right people just dragging the name
1:35:20
and dragging Muslims through the mud simply because of propaganda that's being spewed by people such as Nigel Farage, Tommy Robinson
1:35:29
Layla Cunningham and the likes. And I feel like people and voices like yourselves are so important
1:35:35
and do so much for not just me as a Muslim, but even my family and friends that I know
1:35:40
the fact that we know that there are people that are giving the right message and the actual truth of London and Muslims
1:35:45
to the people out there, rather than just propaganda coming from the other side
1:35:51
Yeah, and it shouldn't be... I mean, to be fair, as I say, I'll take..
1:35:54
Thank you. I'll take your gratitude to heart. And I think Leila Cunningham himself is actually a Muslim
1:36:00
so I don't know that she deserves to be fully put in that category
1:36:04
I don't know enough about her, actually, to know what she has contributed to the elements of the conversation that you just described
1:36:12
But it shouldn't be rare, because as we have been discussing for the course of the last hour
1:36:16
all of the facts completely dismantle the dystopian narrative that is being punted by some of the people that you mentioned
1:36:23
And I suppose most obviously by Elon Musk, which is just weird
1:36:27
But one thing that nobody can argue with is that if you're the richest man in the world
1:36:31
then your propaganda can reach parts that other propagandists can only dream of reaching
1:36:38
Speaking of things that can reach parts that other things can only dream of reaching, it's Mystery Hour next, your weekly opportunity to achieve exactly that
1:36:44
the sort of satisfaction not ordinarily available anywhere else on your radio. And if you don't know what it is, I should probably warn you
1:36:52
it's a little bit different from all the other stuff we do. James O'Brien on LBC
1:36:57
Three minutes after twelve is the time you're listening to, Well, he just told you, didn't he? James O'Brien on LBC
1:37:02
Let's do Mystery Hour from the start. Let's presume there are people listening who've got no idea what it is
1:37:10
and set it up properly in a good old-fashioned way like what I used to do
1:37:15
Mystery Hour is your weekly opportunity to achieve the sort of satisfaction
1:37:18
not available anywhere else on your radio. The mad thing is I was talking to my sort of capo de capi yesterday I was sitting down with the people at the very very top of the global radio tree and it is extraordinary to me that Mystery Hour is held in such affection
1:37:36
Right up and down the business, let alone the listenership, the audience, you and me and my colleagues
1:37:42
I don't know why, because it is on paper ridiculous. Someone rings in with a question, and someone else rings in with an answer
1:37:49
And that's it. And yet somehow, as you're about to discover if you haven't heard it before
1:37:53
Magic happens in between those two positions. And I don't... I mean, you can't yse this stuff, can you
1:38:00
It's like alchemy. It's like magic. You don't want to overyse it, otherwise you'd lose sight of it
1:38:06
But that is it, if you're new to it. That is the principle
1:38:11
That is the modus operandi. And there are no real rules about what you can and can't ask
1:38:16
We used to have an antipathy towards motoring-based questions, but as with most things on this programme
1:38:21
we kind of oscillated between forgetting it and not being bothered to implement it
1:38:25
We don't like repetition, but to be fair, we've been doing it for so long now
1:38:28
that it's almost impossible to get through an entire mystery hour without including questions that have been asked
1:38:33
and quite possibly answered before. More than once, actually. There is an archive, by the way, Global Player
1:38:41
where you can listen to old mystery hours to your heart's content, particularly at this time of year
1:38:46
Particularly helpful, I'm told, when you've got the kids in the car and you're on long journeys
1:38:50
I know everybody's got their own devices these days and everyone's plugged into their earphones and what have you
1:38:56
but if you did want to have a communal listen on a long car journey
1:39:00
then Mystery Hour's lovely, actually, because everyone can join in. And then at the end of it, you can all buy each other a game
1:39:05
Because there is now a game. You can find out more about the game at mysteryhour.co.uk
1:39:10
And indeed, you can win a game. There are two games. There's a big old board game and there's a travel edition that's in a tin
1:39:15
You can win that by providing my favourite contribution of the week
1:39:21
And that is it. That's the rule. It's just my favourite. Full terms and conditions
1:39:27
because it is ostensibly a proper grown-up radio competition, can be found at lbc.co.uk
1:39:32
So, you know, very loose and poorly implemented rules about repetition and motoring
1:39:37
Other than that, anything that's got you puzzled. I mean, don't be silly
1:39:42
Don't be silly. Don't send me messages pretending that you understand London
1:39:46
when you live in Bolton. But don't be silly in terms of asking questions that clearly don't have answers
1:39:54
You must have faith and reasons to have faith, because you've got to have faith, the faith, the faith
1:39:59
in the existence of an answer. So, you know, I won't give you examples
1:40:05
because then some joker will ring in and ask it. And there's no room for mystic jimmery during this feature
1:40:12
It is facts and evidence only. No clairvoyance, no predictions, none of that malarkey
1:40:18
not a great amount of opportunity for Keith to press his little buttons either
1:40:22
um I think that's it I think that's probably it the rules for providing answers you're not allowed
1:40:30
to look anything up I haven't done that rule for a long time I think people work that out for
1:40:34
themselves it'd be a fairly ridiculous radio feature if you were allowed to look things up
1:40:39
so I'd just say someone rings in and says what and then one and a half million people google it
1:40:46
and take it in terms to ring in and read out the answer. So if I suspect for a minute that you're reading out your answer
1:40:53
you will not only be cut off immediately, you'll be banned from tuning into Mystery Hour for the rest of your life, actually
1:40:59
For the rest of your life. There may be some early release. I haven't decided yet
1:41:03
We're having a review. But you will be banned in the first instance for the rest of your life
1:41:08
I don't know how we implement that rule, but frankly I don't care, because you'll just be banned
1:41:13
You're barred. You're banned. So don't look things up. You have to know the answer
1:41:18
And I will ask you what your qualifications are, which gives you an opportunity to prove to me
1:41:22
how you and that you did indeed know the answer. 12.07 is the time
1:41:28
I've done the board game, I think. I've mentioned the game. I've given out the rules
1:41:32
T's and C's, lbc.co.uk, and, of course, mysteryhour.co.uk. Andy's in Lincoln to kick things off
1:41:40
Andy, question or answer? Yes, question. Carry on. Yeah, morning, James. It's a strange one
1:41:48
The story is, I used to have a friend called Clive. Every time I gave him a peppermint at work, he started sneezing
1:41:52
And then my wife, I found out when she has a peppermint, she starts sneezing, and it got me thinking
1:41:57
well, we've had this game every time she does it in the car. I call her a weirdo, but that's another thing. But is it because it doesn't taste the pepper
1:42:03
A peppermint makes people sneeze? Well, it makes my wife sneeze. And Clive
1:42:09
Not just your wife. And Clive, yeah. Clive as well. And I got thinking, is it like the Beano
1:42:14
where they throw pepper out and everybody sneezes sliding on a banana. So is a peppermint called a peppermint
1:42:20
because it makes people sneeze like what pepper does? Yeah, like in comics and stuff like that
1:42:25
I like this. As opposed to anything else, yeah. Why else would it be called a peppermint
1:42:30
Yeah, well, I've looked at different mints and they all look the same sort of shape
1:42:35
so I don't know if there's anything to do with it, but yeah. So, I mean, really, why is a peppermint called a peppermint
1:42:40
And if the answer turns out to be that it makes you sneeze like pepper does, then everybody's happy
1:42:44
Well, it doesn't make me sneeze. It's only weirdos like my wife. You can't keep calling her a weirdo. I thought you were on holiday
1:42:50
She should be having a nice old time. She's having a lovely time lying down. I'm just looking at Mount Suvius at the minute
1:42:55
Are you really? I literally, yeah. That's not a figure of speech
1:43:00
You're in Pompeii. So I love people who ring Miss Jow from their holidays
1:43:04
It speaks to the kind of bond that I was trying to describe at the beginning of this introduction
1:43:09
I mean, have you done the thing? Have you seen all the sort of bodies preserved and all that malarkey
1:43:14
No, we're going to do that tomorrow. Are you? It nearly killed us going around Herculaneum
1:43:19
because it's about a million degrees here. Yeah, it's tricky. I mean, I've been everywhere and it's hot
1:43:22
but oh God, it's hot here, so. Yeah, well, not as hot as it would be if the volcano erupted, eh
1:43:27
Well, it'll be all over quickly. That'll be done. I thought that dad joke deserved more
1:43:33
but you came back with another dad joke. Boom! Thank you, Andy. Why is a peppermint called a peppermint
1:43:38
And has it got anything to do with pepper? Jonathan's in Grantham. Jonathan, question or answer
1:43:43
It's a question. Carry on. I'm a football supporter, and a few years ago
1:43:49
my team got relegated to the National League, so we got to go to some places we hadn't been to before
1:43:54
Are you still in the National League? No, we only went down for one season
1:43:59
We got promoted straight back up at the first and ten. Bad luck, because it means you won't be coming to Kidderminster this season
1:44:05
No, but I think we've taken your best player, because I support Grimsby Town
1:44:08
Oh, you cheeky beggar, honestly. Well, I don't know if he's the best
1:44:13
but that is a cracking signing for you. He'll do a job for you. I'll tell you that for nothing
1:44:18
I think he sounded like the kid amidst a cafe from what I've read from kid amidst a lot of us
1:44:23
Well, we'll miss him, certainly, but I'm sure that we'll find someone to fill the gap
1:44:27
Go on, what's the National League-based question? Well, I went to Boreham Wood away
1:44:34
Oh, yeah. And I've been there before. The last time I was in the National League
1:44:38
but I never noticed before that Boreham Wood, the town is one word
1:44:45
11 letters. Boreham Wood the club is Boreham space Wood. And I just wondered why that is
1:44:54
I like the question And of course given that we currently extolling the virtues of London it nice to have a question that comes very much from the bigger city of London
1:45:07
London? And the reason I'm... I don't think Boreham Wood's in London, is it
1:45:12
No, bigger, sort of. I mean, Elstry and Boreham Wood, I think of it as big
1:45:15
It's Zone 6. London? Well, it's Zone 6, it's London. London? I'm laughing because we've done this before and we did it relatively recently
1:45:24
I'm not expecting anybody else to remember or to have noticed. But I said at the top that we do some questions
1:45:30
you know, the repetition rule has fallen apart over the years. But you'd have thought that a question like that
1:45:35
might have jogged a few memories in the production office before it got through to air, wouldn't you
1:45:39
We've done the Boreham Wood question quite recently. Maybe. I'll tell you something, Jonathan
1:45:44
I think it sticks in our head because of the football, Boreham Wood
1:45:48
I think for most people it could have been any town, But for some reason, Boreham would always sort of jumps out of the table, doesn't it
1:45:55
Always jumps out of the fixtures and out of the results. It's..
1:46:02
Boreham would. I can't remember what the answer is. I think... Is the club two words and the town is one word
1:46:09
Yeah, the town's one word. Right, I know the answer to this. I don't know why, so there might be room for..
1:46:14
It used to be the town was two words. and they just smushed them together
1:46:20
at some point in the last 50 years and the football club never changed
1:46:25
Yeah, well, I sort of guessed that. Yeah, you would have done that. I was more angling at why..
1:46:31
Why did the town smush the two together? And I did have a sort of..
1:46:37
an idea in my head, but it's just an idea. Go on, what's your idea
1:46:41
Well, the railway station is Elstery and Boreham Wood. Yeah. and the railway station
1:46:48
is probably getting on for 180 years old now and wasn't called Elstree and Boreham Wood
1:46:55
so did the railway station get renamed Elstree and Boreham Wood make them change the name of the town
1:47:02
to Boreham Wood and then leave the football yeah because the railway station
1:47:08
had the name did that well we'll find out you want a more detailed answer
1:47:13
than I've been able to provide 30 minutes after 12 is the time
1:47:17
It has definitely been asked before, but that's not... And it's not a football question, Gareth, you silly man
1:47:22
It's a nomenclature question. It's a word question. It's a verbal question
1:47:26
It's a lovely question with a little side order of... Well, not even non-league football
1:47:31
because Grimsby Town are in the Football League. If you see him, Jonathan, give my regards to Joe, won't you
1:47:37
I will do, yeah. And he'll say, sorry, who? Never heard of him, but never mind
1:47:42
It's the thought that counts. 12.14 is the time. Matthew's in Lewisham
1:47:45
Matthew, question or answer? It's a question, James. Carry on, Matthew. Me and my partner were driving in the street the other day
1:47:51
and we saw a hedgehog sign and we were wondering how many hedgehogs had to cross the road
1:47:56
before they get a sign. I understand school signs and stuff. Obviously, there's schools nearby
1:48:02
but how many hedgehogs and how do they apply for signs? I mean, they are proper signs
1:48:06
They've got red borders on them and things. So, danger, hedgehogs crossing
1:48:11
Exactly. And, of course, there's a chance anywhere in the world at any given point that a hedgehog could be crossing the road
1:48:17
Exactly. So why, what needs, I mean, are there such things as hedgehog colonies
1:48:22
Do we know? I do not know. I think of them as quite solitary creatures
1:48:26
They're very prickly. Yeah. I'm sorry, you're supposed to leave a fence in your garden, a hole in your garden fence
1:48:31
to let them cross there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess they just cross wherever they want
1:48:35
So what do you have to do to get a hedgehog crossing sign? Exactly
1:48:39
What has to happen for a hedgehog crossing sign to be put up
1:48:43
Yeah, and also he's checking it if I was to report a couple of hedgehogs crossing
1:48:47
Well, that's what I mean. It's an extraordinary question. It's a brilliant... Well, the more you think about it
1:48:51
the more dimensions this question has got. Exactly. You could get a snide hedgehog sign. Like you say
1:48:57
you could ring in as, I've just seen a hedgehog crossing the road and then get put on a different voice and go
1:49:01
I've just seen a hedgehog crossing the road. That's my sign there. That's me. That's my work, that is. Let's move on
1:49:07
What else can we get? Maybe, I'll tell you what. I don't know. I'd get one of those ones where there's a motorbike
1:49:11
flying over a car. What do you have to bring in to report there? Evel Knievel
1:49:16
You're on the list, Matthew. What do you have to do? I love that question. Boreham Wood, Peppermints and Hedgehogs
1:49:21
It's 12.15. James O'Brien on LBC. 17 is the time. Why are Peppermints called Peppermints
1:49:30
Why is Boreham Wood two words in the football team, but one word with the town
1:49:35
And what do you have to do to get a designated sign on
1:49:39
the road what has to happen for a designated hedgehog's crossing sign they're a relatively
1:49:43
recent phenomenon i think but they definitely exist and it's a superb question it might have
1:49:50
quite a morbid answer now i come to think of it but you know mystery mystery does not bulk at
1:49:55
anything uh we will we will bravely pursue the truth regardless of the dangers david is in
1:50:02
leamington spa david question or answer hello james hello david right um sitting in the garden
1:50:09
one of these balmy evenings and the moon is moving across the sky and i think it's growing
1:50:16
uh evening by evening we'll have a full moon towards the end of the week yeah my question is
1:50:22
um is it possible to gain any solar energy from the moon because it's reflecting the light of the sun
1:50:36
Keith says no. That's it. There you go. Round of applause for Keith
1:50:40
No, stop it. Don't you dare. Stop it. I mean... So you mean..
1:50:49
So it is definitely... I mean, the reason we can see the moon, as any
1:50:54
fool know, is because sunlight is reaching it. And therefore bouncing... No, no, because how's it going to attract..
1:51:02
I realise it would be obviously very, very little. But you're asking if there's a measurable
1:51:09
Should we say measurable? Yes, okay. Because it's going to be probably a technically yes
1:51:13
but we need to know for sure because you can actually measure it. What would you use
1:51:18
And what do we mean by solar energy? Do we mean light or heat? We mean heat, don't we
1:51:23
No, light, I think. Do we? Well, your solar panels don't work on light, do they
1:51:28
or do they? I don't know much about solar panels David, I've got to be honest with you
1:51:34
I shouldn't have made that sweeping statement then but they do seem to be more popular in hot countries
1:51:39
don't they? Not light countries Oh well that's just because the sky's clear isn't it most of the time
1:51:44
Oh I don't know That makes three of us By the way James, my wife thinks you walk
1:51:51
on water I promised I would say that What's your amazing wife's name
1:51:56
Gloria Well, Gloria, what a wonderful name. Perfect. Someone should write a song for her
1:52:00
And she's clearly got impeccable taste in men. She's an ageing black lady who's got the hots for you
1:52:06
I won't go any further than that. No, I don't think you should, frankly. Not before the watershed
1:52:11
But please give my love to Gloria. It's a wonderful thing. Thank you, David
1:52:16
Great talking to you. Thank you very much. My pleasure entirely. It's a lovely show today. There's too much love on the programme
1:52:21
It'll never catch on. The moon. Does the moon emit any solar energy as a consequence of the sunlight bouncing off the moon And it has to be measurable And then the hedgehogs the peppermint and the ballroom would Marks and Wimbledon questions like that
1:52:37
As soon as I speak, I make an idiot of myself. And that's good in a way, because there are occasions, I'm told, I never really pick up on them myself
1:52:46
where apparently I can come across, and you might want to sit down for this
1:52:51
apparently I can sometimes come across as a bit of a know-it-all
1:52:57
Thank you, Keith. And that's why in many ways it's a good thing
1:53:01
both for the general health of the programme and for my own ego
1:53:06
when we stumble into subjects about which I know absolutely nothing. The trick, of course, is to admit it
1:53:13
Because it's when you pretend that you know things and you don't that you end up getting into trouble
1:53:17
It is not mentioning any names. It's 21 minutes after 12. Mark's in Wimbledon. Mark, question or answer
1:53:23
It's a question, James. Carry on. I was playing Red Dead Redemption 2 the other night
1:53:29
That's a good old game, isn't it? Lots of horse riding, as I'm sure you know. There is indeed
1:53:34
lots of horse riding. Yeah. And as I was galloping through the virtual fields and meadows, every so often I'd
1:53:40
come round a bend and smash into another horse and die. And it got me thinking, I was riding on
1:53:46
the left, which in the UK would be the equivalent of driving on the left, and the horse
1:53:50
always seemed to be on that other side. And that got me thinking, back in the day, did we have horse rules for which side you rode on
1:53:58
and do they translate perhaps to today's driving side? And have I just snuck in a motoring question
1:54:06
No, I mean, I love the idea that it's a motoring question. But, I mean, I'm just wondering whether we had two lanes
1:54:16
at all in those days, or whether you'd have to pull over
1:54:21
if there was a carriage coming towards you. But then you sort of move into the realms of proliferation, don't you
1:54:25
And eventually, particularly on the streets of London with Hansom cabs and all the rest of it
1:54:29
you would have had a lot of vehicles on the road, and therefore there'd have had to have been a kind of right-of-way
1:54:35
So really, because you're only really allowed one question, but were there rules for which side of the road you should be on
1:54:43
before there were cars? Exactly that. I love that question. I know that, I mean, the thing about which sides you go on
1:54:50
I don't know if this is an urban myth or not, but it was a very early mystery. You know the bit about swords
1:54:55
Mm. Do you know that? Strength of hand. But no, but also the sword was dangling on one side
1:55:02
So if you were crossing on a horse, you wouldn't want to clash swords
1:55:08
So you'd go on the left-hand side and your sword would be on your left hip
1:55:14
Pull out, yeah. Yeah. So that might be part of the answer, actually
1:55:19
If it was horses even before it was carriages. So in the days of horses and or carriages
1:55:25
did we have a... Highway code, as it were. Yeah, highway code, as it were
1:55:30
What a lovely answer. Question even. Have you played the Bond game? Have you played the new James Bond game
1:55:35
I've played a little bit. You've not got it, isn't it? No, I'm in the industry, so I get bombarded with games
1:55:41
So it's time. Time, time, time, James. It is time, isn't it
1:55:46
And when you love something, you get the... When you love something, it can take up..
1:55:50
How old are your kids, if you don't mind me asking? Between 14 and 20
1:55:55
Oh, okay. So you're still kind of on duty because mine now are both finished
1:55:59
but beyond A-levels and I just caught myself the other day. You know, the thing comes up
1:56:03
when you're on the title screen. I just put 50 hours in on the Bond game
1:56:07
without even noticing. It's like being 16 again. Two days with your kids, James
1:56:13
I know it is. I mean, the day I did these days, because when I was, right, well, I can't get how old is the oldest now
1:56:19
She's 20. So about 20 years ago, I was like you. I was writing video game reviews for the Daily Mail
1:56:24
And I got sent absolutely everything as well, like every game under the sun. But it coincided in an incredibly cruel twist of fate
1:56:31
It coincided with the first period of my life that I just didn't have hours to spare to play video games
1:56:38
So it petered out. But I'm back now, and I'm back with a vengeance. and that bond game is absolutely brilliant, as you know
1:56:44
Thank you, Mark. It's a lovely question. Sarah is in Hackney. Sarah, question or answer
1:56:50
Question. Carry on. Okay. Some US voters register as Republicans. Some register as Democrats
1:57:00
It means they can vote in primaries. But why do people register as independents
1:57:04
What is the benefit to them? Can they not vote for independents in primaries
1:57:10
No, of course they can't, because there's only one candidate, isn't there? Thank you. I'm just thinking out loud, Sarah
1:57:16
I'm thinking out loud. Are we 100% sure that you can register as an independent
1:57:21
Yes. Because I was going to say, well, it means you don't get badgered by the Democrats or the Republicans
1:57:25
but in a way you're more likely to get badgered by the Democrats and the Republicans if you've registered as an independent
1:57:30
If independent means undecided or if it means something else in the context of American politics
1:57:36
Why would you, why do you, why can you register as an independent voter
1:57:39
in the United States electoral system? That's my question, yes. What's the benefit that they get
1:57:45
Why do they do it? Yeah, I love it. It's a great question. I've never understood it, and I've researched it
1:57:50
and I can't find the answer. Oh, that's... And neither can your researcher. Well, that's a little bit worrying
1:57:54
but someone might know. Let's see what we can do with it. Thank you
1:57:59
I like that, Sarah. The independence, and of course, the one I haven't written down here
1:58:05
hedgehogs, boar and wood, peppermints, independence, in the USA, the sun and the moon
1:58:11
It's because I got too distracted by... Yeah, it's the horse and cart. I was too busy reminiscing about video games
1:58:17
What was his name? Was it David? Mark. So, David was the moon question
1:58:24
Mark in Wimbledon was the horse's question. There we go. There's a professional somewhere inside this radio presenter
1:58:30
fighting to get out. Kevin's in Welling. Kevin, question or answer? Another question, please, James
1:58:36
Yeah, go on, Kevin, when you're ready. Yeah, just a quick one
1:58:40
I was driving back from Leeds this morning, back to London. London? Indeed, yep
1:58:46
You've got to use it. Indeed. And I come across the M621
1:58:55
Oh, yeah. This is a pure motoring question. Who did help put you through
1:58:59
It's about numbers. It's not about bloody numbers, mate. It's about roads
1:59:03
Language, please. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry to children listening as well. It's almost the holidays
1:59:09
So, basically, and I'm probably rotten, but I'm going to take a stab in the dark. There's not another 620 motorways in the UK
1:59:15
Yeah, but this is a pure motor... Would you just excuse me for one moment, Kevin
1:59:19
Would you? Fire away. Thank you. I think the children are already on holiday
1:59:23
so I will watch my language even more than I usually do. Eleanor, who put this through
1:59:30
Was it you or was it Martha? Who put this through? This is a pure motoring question
1:59:36
There couldn't be more motoring. Even if it was a question about how many miles to the gallon can you get in a 1.6 litre Ford Fiesta
1:59:43
it would not be... But it would be more about non-clinning, Geoff. Nomenclature. Yes
1:59:48
London! I don't think it is. But go on then. So, I mean, is it not fairly obvious
1:59:55
Is it not going to be... Is it not an adjunct of the M62? Really? I don't know. It's a motoring question. I don't do motoring questions
2:00:04
What do you do? Why? That's why I'm asking about the numbering system. Otherwise, I'd know. So we know that there aren't 620 motorways. So why is there an M621? This is why I don't do motoring questions
2:00:13
Exactly. So why is it? Why has someone in the Inflip wisdom decided to skip at least 200
2:00:18
I hate you. I actually hate you because I'm going to give myself a round of applause for this
2:00:24
It is definitely a branch of the M62. Is that definitive, does it
2:00:29
That's definitive, yeah. How so? What is your background? Motoring expert. Well, it's not what James May, I guess, isn't it
2:00:36
He's on later today. I think he is on later today. God, you're doing Tom Swarbrick's promotions for him
2:00:41
I think James May is on later today with Tom Swarbrick. That's if he's off the golf course for him. Indeedy doody
2:00:47
I'm not going to take the round of applause, and I should, because it means someone can ring in
2:00:51
and answer the question, which means we'll be going flipping motoring crazy, but yeah, okay
2:00:56
Don't do this again, Kevin, all right? Well, to me, it's only the second question in ten years, James
2:01:01
Yeah, but, you know, don't do it again, even in ten years
2:01:05
I don't want to, I don't want to, it's a pure, you could argue with the..
2:01:09
I don't want to get into a habit, you're right. No, it's not, it's not, oh dear
2:01:14
There's a reason why I banned them, you see? You see? Richard's in Bury St. Edmunds
2:01:20
Richard, question or answer? Question, James. Carry on. Why do we have extra time in football, but not in rugby
2:01:30
How do you mean? Well, we have, obviously, injury time in football
2:01:36
Injury time or extra time, that's what I was clarifying. Sorry, injury time
2:01:40
So we have, like, three minutes added on, six minutes added on. But in rugby, when it reaches 80 minutes, that's it
2:01:47
I think... Because the rest stops the watch during an injury. No, he doesn't
2:01:52
They play on until there's a natural break in play in rugby union
2:01:57
I know, but when there's an injury, if you look at the stopwatch on the top left-hand side
2:02:02
the clock stops. But in football, the clock carries on. Oh, I see what you mean
2:02:07
I don't know. I mean, I presume it's because in rugby, the injury is much more likely to take a heck of a long time
2:02:13
than it is in football. I only thought about it because the amount of goals
2:02:17
that are scored in added time. Yes. so they don't so yeah I don't know
2:02:22
I mean your ysis is correct but it's a good question I suppose
2:02:27
so why don't they stop the watch in um all you have to do
2:02:31
is stop the watch in football and then there's no time taken up by the injury
2:02:35
it's 90 minutes all day long whereas they do it in rugby
2:02:40
and it works fine so why is it we don't do it in football they do sometimes
2:02:44
stop the watch in football do they? I think so oh ok
2:02:50
I could be wrong. I mean, it's not the bit I'm paying the most attention to, to be honest
2:02:55
I've never had a game of football that I've seen or heard of that's gone no extra time
2:03:00
So the ball's out of play in rugby, the watch stops. When it's out of play at all, if it goes over the line
2:03:06
so you get exactly 80 minutes of play. Yeah, including injury or..
2:03:10
So why don't they do the same in football? In football, yeah. Okay, yeah, that's all right
2:03:15
So why do rugby and football treat injury time differently? Yeah, and it'd be interesting to see if anyone done the ysis
2:03:22
on the Premier League table if the goal was cancelled in extra time
2:03:27
where everyone would have finished. No, it wouldn't. It would. No, it wouldn't
2:03:31
It would not be remotely interesting. Seriously, it'd be up there with questions about the M621
2:03:37
That's how interesting it would be. The amount that they would... Oh, get knotted
2:03:40
It's 12.31. You're listening to James. Amelia Cox has your headlong. James O'Brien on LBC
2:03:47
Just in case you thought I was exaggerating when I was talking about how important it is
2:03:51
to acknowledge things you know nothing about. I just had a crack at talking about the stopwatches
2:03:55
in football and in rugby there a moment ago and, judging by my inbox, got absolutely everything wrong
2:04:00
Which, of course, leaves the field open for you to step up and provide a definitive answer to that question
2:04:06
Other questions still waiting for answers. It's all of them, really. Why are peppermints called peppermints
2:04:11
Has it got anything to do with pepper? Why is Boreham Wood the football team? Two words, when Boreham Wood the town is now one
2:04:18
Hedgehogs. How do you get a hedgehog crossing designated road sign? What needs to happen
2:04:23
Sounds like the first line of a joke. Can you get any solar energy from the moon
2:04:28
from the sunlight that has been reflected onto the moon? Why do some American voters register as independents
2:04:34
Did you have a highway code before you had cars? So when it was all horses or horses and carts or carriages
2:04:41
did you have to go on the right or the left like you do now? And finally, the one about the watches in the football and the rugby
2:04:48
Dave's in Newcastle. Dave, question or answer? Question, please. Carry on. Hiya
2:04:54
Hello, Dave. Well, first time caller, so obviously... Welcome. ...very, very nervous, and I know it's just us two
2:04:59
It is. ...that I talk, so there's no need to be nervous. Exactly that. Just you and me, chewing the fat, shooting the breeze
2:05:05
Away we go. All right. I was watching a TV programme last week about fiddler crabs
2:05:13
Oh, yes. and I was just wondering, when male fiddler crabs fight each other
2:05:21
do they only fight crabs with the large claw on the same side as theirs
2:05:32
Or can they fight against crabs with the large claw on the opposite side
2:05:38
Do they definitely do the large claw on both sides, fiddler crabs
2:05:42
or do they all... That was kind of a second question. Are they all right-handed
2:05:48
with the large claw on the right hand or do you get fiddler crabs
2:05:52
with the large claw on the opposite side? Because if that happens
2:05:57
then it's just the large claw kind of bashing up against the other large claw
2:06:02
Do they fight a lot? I didn't see this documentary. Do they fight a lot, the fiddlers
2:06:06
They should really be called fighting crabs. Well, yes. Why are they called fiddler crabs
2:06:10
Because they look like violinists. possibly I think it is I'm just looking at a picture of one now
2:06:16
I bet it is you know yeah but in all of the
2:06:20
the kind of the fight scenes on the on the documentary they were all up against
2:06:25
crabs with the the large claw on the same side they're all
2:06:30
yeah well I'm looking at I've got left handed and right handed ones up on the screen
2:06:34
but they they you never know what the photograph the photograph could have been reversed
2:06:38
couldn't it you don't yeah so what's the question The question is does a right fiddler crab only fight against another right fiddler crab No of course not No I mean what are they fighting about Dave Probably women Yeah exactly
2:06:57
Or something like that. Exactly. But if the claws are on the same side as they oppose each other
2:07:05
all they're going to do is kind of bump the claw against the opponent
2:07:09
No, it's like playing, you know, do you remember thumbsies? Do you remember playing thumbsies at school
2:07:13
Yeah, yeah. It's like that. So you might think that you're going to be nipping around the side and trying to slide around the back and trying to slide
2:07:20
You know, it's all... But would you play if you're right-handed, would you play thumbsies against somebody who's using their left hand
2:07:27
Because it wouldn't work properly. Oh, yeah, all right. That ogy didn't..
2:07:31
No, no, no, no. That means my ogy was bad. It doesn't mean you're clever. It was just a bad ogy
2:07:36
No, no, I'm not clever. But you are very clever. I mean, I just can't conceive of the evolutionary world in which
2:07:44
if you were a left-handed fiddler crab, you're going to be safe from right-handed fiddler crabs
2:07:49
And they're not going to fight you for mates or territory or food
2:07:54
You maintain a balance between left and right-handers. But, I mean, it's just infeasible
2:08:00
It's implausible that you'd just be, oh, I'm going to kill you
2:08:04
Oh, no, I'm not. It's all right. You're left-handed. You carry on there. And then you walk away and then you're all right
2:08:08
It could be some genetic mutation to ensure the survival of left-handed Siddler crabs
2:08:15
I mean, technically it could, Dave. It could, technically. But I don't think it is, mate
2:08:20
Well, maybe not. So, do they all have the big claw on the same side
2:08:25
And if not, do they only ever fight the crabs who do have it on the same side as them
2:08:32
Yeah. Flipping heck, mate. They didn't cover this in the documentary? No, they didn't
2:08:39
They didn't. Well, that's it. I'm not paying my licence fee. In their scientific investigation
2:08:44
I'm not paying my licence fee ever again. What do they think they're playing out with this kind of poxy, half-baked ysis
2:08:51
of Fiddler Crab Claws? It wasn't a David Attenborough documentary. Obviously. That's where it went wrong
2:08:56
Obviously. Well, I bet it wasn't Chris Packham either, was it? Actually, it was
2:09:00
Oh, no! I'm sure it was. Because I was about to... Then I missed it then
2:09:04
because I've watched a couple of episodes of that. and it's brilliant, Evolution, the new Chris Packham one
2:09:11
and he is... Yeah, I know, I know. I'm a big fan of him, yeah, definitely. But he hasn't covered the big old claws on the big old..
2:09:18
No, that was an oversight on his behalf. Possibly not, then. 12.40 is the time
2:09:26
So a fiddler crab, if you're not familiar and you haven't managed to work it out for yourself during that conversation
2:09:31
is like a normal crab but with one massive claw on one side
2:09:36
And what we need to know is whether or not the massive claw is always on the same side
2:09:43
And if it isn't, do they fight the ones on the other side
2:09:49
Ah, man. It is 20 to 1. You're listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:09:55
Wayne's in Basel. Ah, how did you... Everyone's getting through today. Question or answer
2:10:00
We've got a WhatsApp group. You're using up a phone line that somebody..
2:10:05
No, but this is really important because it's not in my magic book, as Scott calls it
2:10:11
Go on, then. This is the Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. But firstly, there are no thermostats
2:10:18
on the side of photovoltaic solar panels. There's a little clue there for it
2:10:23
So it's all about the light, nothing to do with heat. I'm an idiot. Yeah, well, yeah, I could have told you that many times
2:10:29
We knew that. Go on, then. Question or answer? Right, it's a question, and it's to the
2:10:34
phrase jinx when you say something at the same time as someone else and you go oh jinx
2:10:40
and you can't say anything until someone says your name if you also add now
2:10:43
the youngsters have told me jinx padlock one two three you can't
2:10:50
speak something something but anyway everyone is familiar, well they are now familiar
2:10:54
with what you're describing, when you say something at the same time one of us goes jinx and the other one has to
2:10:58
stay silent yeah like because i thought i'm gonna have a look in my book because i was reminded from
2:11:04
um you digging me out from last week's mystery hour um you weren't on last week's mystery hour
2:11:09
no no no i forgot it was on and i was looking in the whatsapp group i was like what's going on oh
2:11:14
no that's correct yes it's a bit niche this there's only four of us in the whatsapp group
2:11:18
i don't know that it plays well to the other 1.496 94 it's only us it's only us talking yeah but
2:11:26
That's true. Yeah, don't get nervous, Wayne. You carry on, mate. It's only me. Yeah, but I just did..
2:11:31
Because me and the missus did it the other day, and I was like, oh, I must look that up
2:11:35
And I forgot about it until Mystery Hour started today. I looked it up, and I was like..
2:11:39
It's not there. It's not there. The origin of jinx. Where does it come from
2:11:44
I like it. Speaking of our WhatsApp group, Scott's very excited that you got through
2:11:50
Gary's probably up a ladder somewhere. But the story that you shared about, let me get the time absolutely right, about the story that you shared about 20 past nine this morning about how other programs handle the LBC switchboard
2:12:11
I shared that with Eleanor. She was tickled pink. That's a good story
2:12:16
That's a very, very good story. But obviously this is appalling radio
2:12:20
because there's no way I can share it on air because it would involve doing that thing that I've been boasting all morning about never doing
2:12:25
which would be critiquing colleagues or allowing criticism of colleagues. You're on, all right
2:12:33
Answer. Find me an answer. You what? Find me an answer. Yeah, I will. I'll get you a jinx
2:12:38
12.43 is the time. And that is the first and last mention live on air
2:12:42
by two members of one of my WhatsApp groups, of the WhatsApp groups
2:12:46
because there's nothing more annoying than say, oh, I can't say this on air. It's a bit like, you know, I had a colleague once
2:12:51
and she would very often say, oh, you'll never guess what. And I'd go, what
2:12:55
And she'd go, oh, I can't tell you. I'm lying. I still have the same colleague, actually
2:13:04
It's Eleanor. It's one of the things she does a lot. You've stopped doing it recently, haven't you
2:13:09
Did you make an effort to stop doing it? You did, Jenny, good. Nothing more annoying
2:13:13
Oh, you'll never guess what happened to Keith yesterday. What happened to Keith? I can't tell you
2:13:18
What do you mean you can't tell me? That's a stupid conversational gambit
2:13:22
It's a cruel one as well. But it's up there with me saying, oh, Wayne put something hilarious in our WhatsApp group this morning
2:13:28
but I can't tell you what it is, so I'll never do that again. Well, or I'll tell you what it is
2:13:32
because I do sometimes struggle to self-regulate when it comes to sharing things on the radio
2:13:36
but I'll try not to, for the time being. We need some answers Holly in Epsom Holly question or answer I got an answer Oh hallelujah What is it It the boring word Carry on So the answer is when it was formed in 1948 the club the town name was two words
2:13:53
and then it was changed to one, but the football club took the decision just to keep the name as two words
2:13:58
Why did they change it to one? Do we know? We don't know, apart from the fact that it could be, it just looked neater, rather than one long word
2:14:05
So, there could be discussions. Yeah, I mean, this is... What's the name of the fellow that asked the question
2:14:10
Jonathan thought maybe it had something to do with when they put the sign up at the railway station
2:14:15
Elstree and Boreham Wood, because Elstree and Boreham Wood would look weird
2:14:20
You'd wonder whether there was a comma missing or another and missing or something like that
2:14:24
so they made it all one word. Yeah, so we get the questions all the time
2:14:29
Do you? Yeah. Well, that means I have to ask you what your qualifications are
2:14:33
So my granddad, Peter Smith, is the club president. How long has he been the club president
2:14:39
For two years, and his first job was press secretary in 1966
2:14:43
So he's Boreham Wood born and bred, hasn't he? He's got it running through his veins, Boreham Wood. Yeah
2:14:50
I'm just going to have to consult with Keith. How many grandchildren has Grandad Peter got
2:14:56
He's got two. Ten. Two. Oh, two. Oh, okay. So it's a question about Boreham Wood
2:15:06
And the answer has been provided by one of the current president's two grandchildren
2:15:12
He's only got two grandchildren. I'm going to do a quick hands-up one
2:15:16
Does that get a... It does get a radio-to, doesn't it? Wait. Hang on
2:15:21
No, let's not... Let's not... Why couldn't he ring in himself? He just couldn't get on the phone
2:15:27
A club like Boreham Wood. He's probably putting out the lines, isn't he, for the first match of the season
2:15:32
This is a knot down at... Wembley was great, though. Yeah, all right, don't rub it in
2:15:37
It's at Meadow Park, isn't it? Meadow Park, Orenwood. Yeah. I think we're coming to see you this season
2:15:42
aren't we, Kidderminster? We'll be playing in the same league, aren't we
2:15:46
Aren't we playing? Yeah. Yeah, in the National League, we will, yeah. Well, excellent. I'll see you then
2:15:51
I expect the full prawn sandwich treatment now, you know, because I'm giving you one of these. I'm Ray Liotta
2:15:55
and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. If you build it, they will come
2:16:04
There it is. I mean, to be fair to Jonathan, he could ring in next week and say, yeah, I know, but why did they mush the two together
2:16:11
when the town was two words and then became one? But that's a lovely answer with a perfect, perfect provenance
2:16:18
James O'Brien on LBC. It is 12.49, and you are listening to James O'Brien on LBC
2:16:25
where Mystery Hour continues. Robert's in Yeovil. Robert, question or answer? I have an answer for you, sir
2:16:32
Carry on, sir. The independent voter thing. Yeah. There's no specific advantage to it
2:16:40
What you are doing is you are telling both parties that you are not completely aligned with the platform that they're running on
2:16:49
Doesn't that make them both more likely to pester you? To a point, yes
2:16:56
But what it means is you can only be pestered at certain times anyway
2:17:00
Oh, I didn't know that. And the other thing is that when you get into the voting booth
2:17:05
you can vote for whoever you want regardless. Of course you can. And I suppose you register in order to send a message to your own people
2:17:11
that there's no point wasting time knocking on this door because you've already got our vote or you've already definitely not got it
2:17:17
Whereas if you're an independent, you're saying, come and show me what you've got, guys. Yeah
2:17:21
Basically, stand up, let me see what you've got, because you're voting for the person, not the party
2:17:26
which that is a weird concept over here that I realise, but there's a lot of people who have pulled themselves out of that entire complex
2:17:35
and said, I'm not saying that I'm a Tory or a Lib Dem or a Labour Party
2:17:40
I'm saying that I am a person who is going to look at who you are
2:17:45
what you stand for. Okay, fine, I will vote for you because of that
2:17:48
Okay. Okay, I get it. I get it. Qualifications? I'm a 51-year-old American
2:17:55
That'll do. I voted in every election that I have been registered for
2:17:59
So when I read about a swing state, how are they calculated according to registered voters
2:18:07
Or are they calculated by another metric? Well, a bit of both, really
2:18:12
They're calculated by independent voters, but swing states are one. So if, for example, a Democrat will never win in Texas
2:18:19
Sure. Right. but if you're in a swing state they are more likely to look at the platform you're presenting
2:18:28
rather than just being i'm blindly voting for this party so they've just got more
2:18:35
open-minded people in a sense yeah basically that's pretty to a point i mean there is obviously
2:18:42
that's a a delicate term in the sense of there is always going to be some who will 100 vote one
2:18:48
way, 100% vote the other, and they have done since the dawn of time. But then there's enough
2:18:54
people in there who will just say, right, forget that. I'm going to look at the people
2:19:01
look at what they stand for personally, what do they are presenting
2:19:05
and choose them instead. Love it. That's a lovely answer. Thank you, Robert. Have a round of applause
2:19:10
Thank you very much. So if you choose the time, Callum's in Wantage. Callum, question or answer
2:19:16
It's an answer, please, James. Carry on, Callum. It's an answer to questions about the side of the road and highway acts and such like
2:19:27
I think you probably hit the nail on the head with why it was the left side of the road
2:19:33
It was probably where they were carrying swords whilst riding a horse
2:19:37
It might be apocryphal, that, but do we know that there was a designated side
2:19:41
Well, that bit makes sense. What we do know is that there were things like the Turnpike Act, highway and byway laws and things like that which would have governed the use of public highways at least
2:19:56
There would still have been private highways throughout the country. But the reason I called regarding the sides of the road specifically is I worked for several years in a historic pub in Devon, which was on the side of the Mariner's Way
2:20:15
Oh, yes. Which was the first lit highway in the UK. It went from Bristol to Plymouth
2:20:22
Wow. And it was used by mariners who would miss the boat in Bristol
2:20:27
they would travel along the road down to Plymouth to catch the boat Well I never We know that they would if they couldn afford the horse and carriage they would walk and they would
2:20:40
sing sea shanties and things like that. There's a huge tradition in the centre
2:20:44
of Devon of sea shanties because of that. And if you follow
2:20:48
the bits of the road that are still there, including through the village
2:20:52
that I used to work in, where the pub that I was in was, and it was a coaching inn
2:20:57
and you can at least follow it from east of Exeter and then through Exeter
2:21:03
and down as far as Tavistock. Right. And most of the villages will still
2:21:08
have a coaching inn or a pub as it is now on either
2:21:12
side of the road. Really? So one would have been for people who were
2:21:16
going in one direction and one would have been for people going in the other direction
2:21:20
I don't imagine that the tavern or the coaching inn owners would
2:21:25
be too upset about someone going into the pub over the road if you can guarantee that they're coming back but why would they need to do
2:21:32
that why could they not just turn in because the roads aren't going to be that busy are they you
2:21:36
know i mean you're going to be able to swing a left or swing a right and go into the other one
2:21:40
i mean it could be it could be to do with traffic it could be to do with the the mechanics of
2:21:47
turning a horse i'm not maybe it could i'm not an equestrian no no if you've got like if it's a
2:21:51
stagecoach and you've got four or four or six horses in front of it then maybe it is really i
2:21:55
I don't know. Anyway, you've done it. You've answered the question. You've witnessed it
2:21:59
Which way was it? Was it the left side going forward or the right side going forward
2:22:06
In terms of... Well, judging whether, you know, which side of the road would the carriages have been on
2:22:11
the same that we're on now. They would have been on the left. I would think so because of, like you said
2:22:16
with the sword thing and things like that and the fact that we still drive on the left
2:22:21
it would make sense. I think so. That we probably carried that on. But it was designated. I like that
2:22:25
qualifications? You've kind of told us, but put it in a sentence. Bit of a history nerd
2:22:29
and used to work in a historic pub on the Mariner's Way. Bingo. Round of applause for Callum
2:22:34
Lovely stuff. Thank you very much. Stephen's in Manchester. Stephen, qualifications? I beg your pardon. Questioner, I got a bit
2:22:39
early, wasn't it? Question or answer? It's an answer. It's nice of a caller from press, but it's not Councillor Allen
2:22:49
Everyone's a producer these days. Go on then. It's an answer to the rugby
2:22:54
Every football time, injury time. I mean, I can only speak for one code
2:22:59
particularly rugby, which is rugby league, because I do have a season ticket holder at a Super League club
2:23:03
so I attend matches most weeks. There's an independent timekeeper in rugby league
2:23:07
so the referee stops the watch, signals for him to stop the watch
2:23:12
at every single stoppage of the captain's challenge. Of course, because there's so many stoppages
2:23:17
Yeah, so it's more and more stop-starts. In football, the referee is the arbiter
2:23:23
of the time. When I was refereeing back in the day, 20-odd years ago now
2:23:28
you saw two watches, I did stop one when I was having a chat to a player or a substitution or whatever
2:23:33
When that bleeps, that gives you your injury time because your other watch has been running. You can see it's three minutes over
2:23:38
five minutes over, whatever, under sort of saying, that's your injury time. But in rugby league
2:23:43
there's more stoppages. Having said that, at the minute, it's a bit of a contentious thing
2:23:47
with the stoppages in rugby league. I attended a game the other week that's 80 minutes long. It kicked off at three o'clock
2:23:52
and with all the stoppages, it finished at 5.15. Good Lord, really
2:23:57
Yeah, and there was a match apparently in Super League the other week, kicked off the exact same time as a World Cup game
2:24:02
and finished 15 minutes after it. Good grief. I mean, it's surprising, but not shocking
2:24:07
and I should have realised at the answer, because it would apply in Union as well
2:24:11
There are just way more stoppages in rugby than there are in football. Yeah, it doesn't flow as well or as quickly, should I say
2:24:19
Yeah, quickly you can have. You can't have well. that's opening up a right old boxer
2:24:24
I love that Salford Red Devils is it that you follow? No, Lee Leopards
2:24:30
Have you seen the news about Paul Rowley this morning? I just saw it
2:24:35
whilst I was listening to you earlier on it's Lee Colt of course Was he really
2:24:41
He was indeed There's no sport like rugby league when it comes to family and community
2:24:47
is there? There's nothing like it Qualifications? You've told us, but tell us again
2:24:52
I did that well. I seem to get older at least. I watch rugby league every week
2:24:56
and also have been, I was a qualified football referee back 25 years ago
2:25:01
That's pretty good. Round of applause for Stephen. Lovely stuff. Squeezing Flo in Brighton
2:25:06
I don't know if I can. Yeah, go on then. Quickly, Flo. Question or answer? Answer to your fiddle crabs
2:25:11
Yes. It's about a 50-50 even split within the male population of fiddle crabs
2:25:16
in terms of their laterality on the left or the right. Seriously? Yeah
2:25:20
So they have sexual dimorphism. The males are the ones with the big claws, and it's about 50-50 split
2:25:25
And do they fight with each other? Does a right claw fight with a left claw? Basically, it's to do with how they square each other up
2:25:30
So they run down into their burrows, and they actually use drumming to ascertain
2:25:34
how big each other are and how big the burrows are. So they'll base it upon how big they are
2:25:39
in proportion to each other, but it kind of does make sense that, yes, the way they angle themselves when they wave at each other
2:25:43
tends to be left to right. You are joking. So you had a point
2:25:48
Yeah, pretty much. David, no, it wasn't David. who was it who was it was dave i've had a david and a dave today it was dave in newcastle
2:25:55
watching his documentary coming up with all sorts of jibber jabber and he was actually onto something
2:25:59
well there's a whole department at the university of exeter who are doing research on fiddler crabs
2:26:04
there you go dave you heard it here first qualifications flow uh my master's thesis
2:26:08
was on percussive behavior and africa tangeri the fiddler crabs in the algarve
2:26:12
oh when's the last time we had two in one day asthma could you spare me one minute do you mind
2:26:17
Of course. Are you sure? Yes. Because this is quite... I mean, your actual master's thesis was on fiddlers, crab's claws
2:26:24
Yeah, but I was specifically on the... We've discovered that they're using drumming to communicate
2:26:28
So they wave at each other on the beach. But what they're actually doing, I defined..
2:26:32
I'm the first person to do it, not to gloat. Shut up. I defined three specific types of drumming that they're actually doing at each other
2:26:38
And I defined what each one meant. Oh, I don't know. I mean, this is just absolutely a shoo-in
2:26:45
I'm Ray Liotta, and you're listening to James O'Brien on LBC. If you build it, they will come
2:26:55
You thought your masters would never come in useful, didn't you, Flo? I know, you know, I'm kind of using it
2:27:00
I do marine science now. I'm joking. It's one o'clock. What a lovely episode of Miss Jack
2:27:04
Can we give Flo a game as well, I think? Or David Newcastle, actually
2:27:08
I've said Flo now. I've got a bias here. I said it to Sheila the other day
2:27:12
I give way more games out to women than men. Do I not? Eleanor says I don't. Spoil sport
2:27:17
Anyway, that's it from me for today. I'll spare you the rubric because I'm running a bit late and Asmormir is here
2:27:22
James O'Brien on LBC
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