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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Massimo Crippa - Ep: 63
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Massimo Crippa for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on February 28, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Massimo Crippa is a freelance Cloud Solution Architect with 20+ years of experience with Microsoft enterprise products and technologies. He started his career in the Italian ICT sector as a web developer and later focused on middleware and messaging projects. In 2011, he moved to Belgium, where he is working as Azure Domain Lead for Codit. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
View Video Transcript
0:00
hello everyone welcome to another
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hello everyone welcome to another
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hello everyone welcome to another episode of the cloud show as you can see
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episode of the cloud show as you can see
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episode of the cloud show as you can see I am at conference I'm at Cloud Brew in
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I am at conference I'm at Cloud Brew in
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I am at conference I'm at Cloud Brew in Belgium a Community Conference which is
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Belgium a Community Conference which is
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Belgium a Community Conference which is amazing has really good speakers and
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amazing has really good speakers and
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amazing has really good speakers and everything and of course this is all to
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everything and of course this is all to
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everything and of course this is all to thank the sponsors of this event for
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thank the sponsors of this event for
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thank the sponsors of this event for example this company here sopr areia uh
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example this company here sopr areia uh
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example this company here sopr areia uh they are here as a sponsor and we really
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they are here as a sponsor and we really
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they are here as a sponsor and we really want to thank them for doing that
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want to thank them for doing that
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want to thank them for doing that supporting community events is important
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supporting community events is important
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supporting community events is important now I want to talk to the next star on
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now I want to talk to the next star on
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now I want to talk to the next star on the cloud show about
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the cloud show about
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the cloud show about another interesting topic in this case
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another interesting topic in this case
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another interesting topic in this case it's going to be about API governance
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it's going to be about API governance
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it's going to be about API governance why do we do that and why is that a
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why do we do that and why is that a
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why do we do that and why is that a thing let's ask
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thing let's ask
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thing let's ask [Music]
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masimo hey masim how you doing I'm doing
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masimo hey masim how you doing I'm doing
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masimo hey masim how you doing I'm doing very good M new yeah it's it's good to
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very good M new yeah it's it's good to
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very good M new yeah it's it's good to be here with you standing here at the
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be here with you standing here at the
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be here with you standing here at the cloud uh Brew conference um you're
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cloud uh Brew conference um you're
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cloud uh Brew conference um you're enjoying the conference so far lovely
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enjoying the conference so far lovely
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enjoying the conference so far lovely conference lovely topics and Lely speak
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conference lovely topics and Lely speak
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conference lovely topics and Lely speak as well and great people absolutely yes
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as well and great people absolutely yes
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as well and great people absolutely yes and so you else also have a session here
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and so you else also have a session here
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and so you else also have a session here are you talking about apis and stuff in
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are you talking about apis and stuff in
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are you talking about apis and stuff in your session yes I did have a session
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your session yes I did have a session
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your session yes I did have a session today about API governance and Azure API
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today about API governance and Azure API
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today about API governance and Azure API Center as a tool to manage the overall
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Center as a tool to manage the overall
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Center as a tool to manage the overall life cycle full life cycle of API right
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life cycle full life cycle of API right
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life cycle full life cycle of API right and and so tell us first like like who
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and and so tell us first like like who
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and and so tell us first like like who are you what do you do like you do this
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are you what do you do like you do this
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are you what do you do like you do this I guess apis yeah so I'm ASA I'm working
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I guess apis yeah so I'm ASA I'm working
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I guess apis yeah so I'm ASA I'm working for a company called coded I'm a lead
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for a company called coded I'm a lead
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for a company called coded I'm a lead architect over there there and I let's
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architect over there there and I let's
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architect over there there and I let's say since um more than 10 years I'm
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say since um more than 10 years I'm
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say since um more than 10 years I'm working in the space of apis and in
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working in the space of apis and in
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working in the space of apis and in general API management the way we govern
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general API management the way we govern
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general API management the way we govern API the way we package API the way we
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API the way we package API the way we
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API the way we package API the way we expose it to our to the outside world
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expose it to our to the outside world
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expose it to our to the outside world okay brilliant and so specifically then
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okay brilliant and so specifically then
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okay brilliant and so specifically then we need to apparently govern our apis
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we need to apparently govern our apis
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we need to apparently govern our apis why are we governing our apis the thing
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why are we governing our apis the thing
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why are we governing our apis the thing is we should ask ourself what do we want
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is we should ask ourself what do we want
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is we should ask ourself what do we want to do with our API so which kind of De
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to do with our API so which kind of De
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to do with our API so which kind of De velop ER experience which which kind of
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velop ER experience which which kind of
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velop ER experience which which kind of customer experience we want to provide
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customer experience we want to provide
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customer experience we want to provide to our audience and it all boils down to
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to our audience and it all boils down to
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to our audience and it all boils down to Quality so if you want to deliver
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Quality so if you want to deliver
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Quality so if you want to deliver quality and excellent customer
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quality and excellent customer
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quality and excellent customer experience that's good no worries to our
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experience that's good no worries to our
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experience that's good no worries to our customers we need to keep under control
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customers we need to keep under control
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customers we need to keep under control governance which means for example the
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governance which means for example the
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governance which means for example the uniformity between apis so we want to if
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uniformity between apis so we want to if
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uniformity between apis so we want to if you are exposing three 4 10 20p we want
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you are exposing three 4 10 20p we want
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you are exposing three 4 10 20p we want they all look the same you should
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they all look the same you should
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they all look the same you should probably keep your microphone close to
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probably keep your microphone close to
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probably keep your microphone close to your listen to me is very good no wor
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your listen to me is very good no wor
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your listen to me is very good no wor man right so and um so I was saying we
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man right so and um so I was saying we
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man right so and um so I was saying we have to make them consistent we have to
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have to make them consistent we have to
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have to make them consistent we have to make sure that those apis they are
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make sure that those apis they are
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make sure that those apis they are assessed from a security point of view
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assessed from a security point of view
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assessed from a security point of view as well we have to make sure that there
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as well we have to make sure that there
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as well we have to make sure that there is that we can guarantee agility agility
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is that we can guarantee agility agility
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is that we can guarantee agility agility means we keep under control for example
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means we keep under control for example
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means we keep under control for example how we govern the breaking changes how
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how we govern the breaking changes how
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how we govern the breaking changes how do we govern the versioning and then for
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do we govern the versioning and then for
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do we govern the versioning and then for example compliancy we are in Europe
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example compliancy we are in Europe
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example compliancy we are in Europe Belgium the heart of Europe Europe you
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Belgium the heart of Europe Europe you
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Belgium the heart of Europe Europe you know gdpr you might important things
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know gdpr you might important things
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know gdpr you might important things gdpr an example of of compliance that
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gdpr an example of of compliance that
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gdpr an example of of compliance that you might have you have compliancy at
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you might have you have compliancy at
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you might have you have compliancy at Country level you might have also
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Country level you might have also
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Country level you might have also compliance in industry healthare or
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compliance in industry healthare or
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compliance in industry healthare or things like this so keeping all of these
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things like this so keeping all of these
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things like this so keeping all of these different dimensions different angles of
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different dimensions different angles of
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different dimensions different angles of apis in control that's all about of API
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apis in control that's all about of API
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apis in control that's all about of API governance okay that's the role of API
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governance okay that's the role of API
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governance okay that's the role of API governance okay so when you need to
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governance okay so when you need to
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governance okay so when you need to version something in your API and and
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version something in your API and and
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version something in your API and and then you have to like manage how that is
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then you have to like manage how that is
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then you have to like manage how that is rolled out and you have to be able to
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rolled out and you have to be able to
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rolled out and you have to be able to describe it it's a it's a when there is
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describe it it's a it's a when there is
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describe it it's a it's a when there is a governance word into into the in place
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a governance word into into the in place
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a governance word into into the in place it's all about a procedure so having
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it's all about a procedure so having
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it's all about a procedure so having bringing together people a process and
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bringing together people a process and
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bringing together people a process and the technology right so the technology
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the technology right so the technology
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the technology right so the technology is the the tool of the product if you
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is the the tool of the product if you
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is the the tool of the product if you want to model the process and bring
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want to model the process and bring
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want to model the process and bring together for example cross functional
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together for example cross functional
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together for example cross functional people the governance is not only
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people the governance is not only
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people the governance is not only delivering an API it's also about
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delivering an API it's also about
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delivering an API it's also about bringing these business people together
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bringing these business people together
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bringing these business people together in the same place with technical people
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in the same place with technical people
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in the same place with technical people and design from the a all to the
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and design from the a all to the
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and design from the a all to the everything was good and then people yeah
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everything was good and then people yeah
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everything was good and then people yeah people is people is one of the uh of the
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people is people is one of the uh of the
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people is people is one of the uh of the key elements in in the equation we
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key elements in in the equation we
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key elements in in the equation we cannot do anything about people that's
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cannot do anything about people that's
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cannot do anything about people that's true that's true we we love technology
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true that's true we we love technology
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true that's true we we love technology but but we need to support them to be
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but but we need to support them to be
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but but we need to support them to be able to uh to make the right calls
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able to uh to make the right calls
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able to uh to make the right calls exactly yeah yeah yeah all right so how
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exactly yeah yeah yeah all right so how
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exactly yeah yeah yeah all right so how do we break this down like what is the
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do we break this down like what is the
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do we break this down like what is the what are the elements of of governance
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what are the elements of of governance
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what are the elements of of governance that you want to yeah so uh for sure one
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that you want to yeah so uh for sure one
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that you want to yeah so uh for sure one very important things is discoverability
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very important things is discoverability
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very important things is discoverability right you cannot govern something or you
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right you cannot govern something or you
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right you cannot govern something or you cannot secure something that you don't
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cannot secure something that you don't
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cannot secure something that you don't know that exist of course you have to
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know that exist of course you have to
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know that exist of course you have to know where it is exactly so Discovery is
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know where it is exactly so Discovery is
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know where it is exactly so Discovery is extremely important in governance so you
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extremely important in governance so you
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extremely important in governance so you create an API catalog for example so you
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create an API catalog for example so you
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create an API catalog for example so you can keep under control every single
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can keep under control every single
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can keep under control every single stage of these assets from the the
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stage of these assets from the the
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stage of these assets from the the beginning design all the way to the
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beginning design all the way to the
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beginning design all the way to the production and also to the the sunset so
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production and also to the the sunset so
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production and also to the the sunset so you when something is not used anymore
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you when something is not used anymore
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you when something is not used anymore you want to retire you make it first in
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you want to retire you make it first in
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you want to retire you make it first in the first stage of Sunset and and all
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the first stage of Sunset and and all
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the first stage of Sunset and and all the way so all the modeling of the life
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the way so all the modeling of the life
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the way so all the modeling of the life cycle that's one thing so okay if you
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cycle that's one thing so okay if you
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cycle that's one thing so okay if you have a catalog you can discover and life
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have a catalog you can discover and life
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have a catalog you can discover and life cycle okay from discoverability to to
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cycle okay from discoverability to to
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cycle okay from discoverability to to all the way to Sunset right got it y
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all the way to Sunset right got it y
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all the way to Sunset right got it y That's one one of the things so the
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That's one one of the things so the
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That's one one of the things so the catalog then the second things is like
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catalog then the second things is like
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catalog then the second things is like once you have a catalog is like we
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once you have a catalog is like we
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once you have a catalog is like we talked before about the process how do
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talked before about the process how do
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talked before about the process how do you model the process and the process
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you model the process and the process
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you model the process and the process always change Company by company so you
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always change Company by company so you
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always change Company by company so you are in pharmaceutical for example you
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are in pharmaceutical for example you
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are in pharmaceutical for example you have some compliancy rules that you want
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have some compliancy rules that you want
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have some compliancy rules that you want to adhere to of course so you can design
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to adhere to of course so you can design
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to adhere to of course so you can design it's very important to design this uh
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it's very important to design this uh
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it's very important to design this uh process you can design it on paper you
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process you can design it on paper you
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process you can design it on paper you can use your tool and today for example
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can use your tool and today for example
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can use your tool and today for example we talk about Azure API center that is
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we talk about Azure API center that is
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we talk about Azure API center that is one tool to model that process got it so
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one tool to model that process got it so
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one tool to model that process got it so the catalog the process and the disc
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the catalog the process and the disc
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the catalog the process and the disc Discovery once you have the catalog so
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Discovery once you have the catalog so
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Discovery once you have the catalog so you know what are your assets once you
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you know what are your assets once you
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you know what are your assets once you have a process the second step and the
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have a process the second step and the
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have a process the second step and the third step is the Discovery simple all
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third step is the Discovery simple all
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third step is the Discovery simple all right okay so when uh somebody needs to
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right okay so when uh somebody needs to
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right okay so when uh somebody needs to uh become better at that because I'm I'm
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uh become better at that because I'm I'm
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uh become better at that because I'm I'm assuming that many just kind of publish
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assuming that many just kind of publish
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assuming that many just kind of publish their API and and then that basically
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their API and and then that basically
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their API and and then that basically that's it like it's just out there right
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that's it like it's just out there right
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that's it like it's just out there right yes um that that it boils down to the
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yes um that that it boils down to the
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yes um that that it boils down to the what is called API strategy first so if
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what is called API strategy first so if
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what is called API strategy first so if you look at API strategy you have or
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you look at API strategy you have or
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you look at API strategy you have or business model if you want four apis you
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business model if you want four apis you
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business model if you want four apis you have different approach the most used in
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have different approach the most used in
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have different approach the most used in the developer Community is the code
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the developer Community is the code
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the developer Community is the code first you just got your functional
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first you just got your functional
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first you just got your functional requirement just coding coding coding
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requirement just coding coding coding
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requirement just coding coding coding you WR you write your API and that it
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you WR you write your API and that it
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you WR you write your API and that it goes and publish here we go and that it
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goes and publish here we go and that it
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goes and publish here we go and that it works fine for small companies but it
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works fine for small companies but it
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works fine for small companies but it does not scale at the end of the day
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does not scale at the end of the day
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does not scale at the end of the day that does not provide the best
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that does not provide the best
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that does not provide the best experience to your consumers of course
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experience to your consumers of course
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experience to your consumers of course not that makes sense the the opposite of
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not that makes sense the the opposite of
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not that makes sense the the opposite of this is the design first where you bring
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this is the design first where you bring
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this is the design first where you bring together the people you bring together
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together the people you bring together
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together the people you bring together the rules and you design outside in I
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the rules and you design outside in I
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the rules and you design outside in I design not for myself but I design for
7:07
design not for myself but I design for
7:07
design not for myself but I design for you that you are my audience get the
7:08
you that you are my audience get the
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you that you are my audience get the out of here move move
7:11
out of here move move
7:11
out of here move move move let's cut this man people are so
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move let's cut this man people are so
7:16
move let's cut this man people are so what
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what
7:18
what let's what we are saying design first
7:21
let's what we are saying design first
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let's what we are saying design first yes design first uh
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yes design first uh
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yes design first uh is design first you bring together all
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is design first you bring together all
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is design first you bring together all the people yes the opposite of the this
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the people yes the opposite of the this
7:29
the people yes the opposite of the this is a design first where you bring
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is a design first where you bring
7:31
is a design first where you bring together the people to design the
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together the people to design the
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together the people to design the outside in you keep yourself in the
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outside in you keep yourself in the
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outside in you keep yourself in the shoes of your consumer you define
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shoes of your consumer you define
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shoes of your consumer you define company rules and you make sure
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company rules and you make sure
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company rules and you make sure that you close the feedback loop as soon
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that you close the feedback loop as soon
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that you close the feedback loop as soon as possible you involve as much as
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as possible you involve as much as
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as possible you involve as much as possible people from different let's say
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possible people from different let's say
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possible people from different let's say not not department but this different
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not not department but this different
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not not department but this different functions to design the way that your
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functions to design the way that your
7:55
functions to design the way that your product uh should be for your then you
7:58
product uh should be for your then you
7:58
product uh should be for your then you have to know everything up front
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have to know everything up front
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have to know everything up front it's a lot of it's a lot of one example
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it's a lot of it's a lot of one example
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it's a lot of it's a lot of one example is defining API dictionary so what it
8:07
is defining API dictionary so what it
8:07
is defining API dictionary so what it means very data contract designing so
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means very data contract designing so
8:10
means very data contract designing so you could I could call I do 10 apis I
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you could I could call I do 10 apis I
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you could I could call I do 10 apis I could call a field one time zip code the
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could call a field one time zip code the
8:16
could call a field one time zip code the other time zip but if I take the time
8:18
other time zip but if I take the time
8:18
other time zip but if I take the time and the investment to Define my
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and the investment to Define my
8:21
and the investment to Define my dictionary my apis are consistent this
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dictionary my apis are consistent this
8:24
dictionary my apis are consistent this is one simple example but ites the idea
8:27
is one simple example but ites the idea
8:27
is one simple example but ites the idea if there is an organization if there is
8:29
if there is an organization if there is
8:29
if there is an organization if there is the process in place if there are
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the process in place if there are
8:31
the process in place if there are multiple controls static controls
8:34
multiple controls static controls
8:34
multiple controls static controls Dynamic controls sometimes also you need
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Dynamic controls sometimes also you need
8:36
Dynamic controls sometimes also you need a manual controls so a person that say
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a manual controls so a person that say
8:39
a manual controls so a person that say Okay I want to categorize this API as
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Okay I want to categorize this API as
8:43
Okay I want to categorize this API as sensitive because there are personal
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sensitive because there are personal
8:46
sensitive because there are personal information that are flying through the
8:48
information that are flying through the
8:48
information that are flying through the or will F fly through those API right
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or will F fly through those API right
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or will F fly through those API right again it's all to find data
8:54
again it's all to find data
8:54
again it's all to find data categorization rules standards
8:58
categorization rules standards
8:58
categorization rules standards compliancy because at the end every will
9:00
compliancy because at the end every will
9:00
compliancy because at the end every will be everything will be discoverable every
9:03
be everything will be discoverable every
9:03
be everything will be discoverable every everything will be unified and
9:06
everything will be unified and
9:06
everything will be unified and consistent and then we will be able to
9:08
consistent and then we will be able to
9:08
consistent and then we will be able to deliver a better customer experience
9:10
deliver a better customer experience
9:10
deliver a better customer experience that sounds about right so finally then
9:13
that sounds about right so finally then
9:13
that sounds about right so finally then uh for for for the record basically if a
9:16
uh for for for the record basically if a
9:16
uh for for for the record basically if a company wants to start doing this better
9:18
company wants to start doing this better
9:18
company wants to start doing this better you're talking about API Center how do
9:20
you're talking about API Center how do
9:20
you're talking about API Center how do you like get started if that's what you
9:22
you like get started if that's what you
9:22
you like get started if that's what you want to do yeah so API Center is a tool
9:27
want to do yeah so API Center is a tool
9:27
want to do yeah so API Center is a tool okay so you can to start with a tool is
9:29
okay so you can to start with a tool is
9:29
okay so you can to start with a tool is is is azure you go there you provision
9:32
is is azure you go there you provision
9:32
is is azure you go there you provision the tool and is ready to go but the
9:34
the tool and is ready to go but the
9:35
the tool and is ready to go but the first step is just to think what you
9:37
first step is just to think what you
9:38
first step is just to think what you need for procedure design a process so
9:41
need for procedure design a process so
9:41
need for procedure design a process so what are my requirements okay there are
9:44
what are my requirements okay there are
9:44
what are my requirements okay there are some very common classic things like
9:46
some very common classic things like
9:46
some very common classic things like dictionary API style guides how do I
9:49
dictionary API style guides how do I
9:50
dictionary API style guides how do I want if I want to use same ver or not
9:52
want if I want to use same ver or not
9:52
want if I want to use same ver or not how do I want to manage this kind of
9:54
how do I want to manage this kind of
9:54
how do I want to manage this kind of versioning if I have a strategy for
9:56
versioning if I have a strategy for
9:56
versioning if I have a strategy for breaking changes etc etc once you have
9:58
breaking changes etc etc once you have
9:58
breaking changes etc etc once you have your process and the people involved
10:00
your process and the people involved
10:00
your process and the people involved then you can use the tool to implement
10:03
then you can use the tool to implement
10:03
then you can use the tool to implement that process and to follow up so then
10:05
that process and to follow up so then
10:05
that process and to follow up so then you you are in control because you know
10:08
you you are in control because you know
10:08
you you are in control because you know what to do and you have the tool that
10:09
what to do and you have the tool that
10:09
what to do and you have the tool that facilitates you your your job okay
10:12
facilitates you your your job okay
10:12
facilitates you your your job okay perfect well that's uh I think is uh the
10:15
perfect well that's uh I think is uh the
10:15
perfect well that's uh I think is uh the perfect end to this episode of the cloud
10:17
perfect end to this episode of the cloud
10:17
perfect end to this episode of the cloud show I want to thank you mimu for being
10:18
show I want to thank you mimu for being
10:18
show I want to thank you mimu for being on the cloud show with me that's it's
10:20
on the cloud show with me that's it's
10:20
on the cloud show with me that's it's been good thank you very much thank you
10:22
been good thank you very much thank you
10:22
been good thank you very much thank you Magnus thank you everyone all right see
10:23
Magnus thank you everyone all right see
10:23
Magnus thank you everyone all right see you in next time on the cloud show
10:26
you in next time on the cloud show
10:26
you in next time on the cloud show [Music]