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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Anjuli Jhakry - Ep: 72
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Anjuli Jhakry for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on July 23, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show explores cloud leadership and addresses the key questions surrounding cloud projects. Indeed, many aspects of a company's success in the cloud are related to technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are crucial for maintaining a healthy cloud and for implementing a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Anjuli Jhakry is a passionate .NET Developer at 4DotNet and honored Microsoft MVP specializing in the Microsoft ecosystem. Based in Rotterdam, she thrives on exploring technologies such as .NET MAUI, Entra ID, Blazor, Azure, and ML.NET—by day, building solutions, and by night, diving deeper into new Microsoft innovations. ⚡Download Sharp Rewards Wallet to earn Rewards: (200 bonus on using this link) http://invite.sharpplatform.com/VirtualConf 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
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0:01
Hello. Hello one and all and welcome to
0:03
Hello. Hello one and all and welcome to
0:03
Hello. Hello one and all and welcome to another episode of the cloud show. Today
0:05
another episode of the cloud show. Today
0:05
another episode of the cloud show. Today we're going to talk about how to take a
0:07
we're going to talk about how to take a
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we're going to talk about how to take a bunch of technology like cloud tech and
0:09
bunch of technology like cloud tech and
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bunch of technology like cloud tech and others and uh turn it into uh the
0:12
others and uh turn it into uh the
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others and uh turn it into uh the foundation of a startup. So today is all
0:16
foundation of a startup. So today is all
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foundation of a startup. So today is all about startups and we're going to talk
0:17
about startups and we're going to talk
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about startups and we're going to talk to a tech expert. We're going to talk to
0:19
to a tech expert. We're going to talk to
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to a tech expert. We're going to talk to an awesome person who knows about
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an awesome person who knows about
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an awesome person who knows about startups and going to tell you all about
0:23
startups and going to tell you all about
0:23
startups and going to tell you all about it. So the guest, the star of the show
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it. So the guest, the star of the show
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it. So the guest, the star of the show today is Angelie.
0:26
today is Angelie.
0:26
today is Angelie. [Music]
0:36
>> Hello there. Welcome to the CL show.
0:40
>> Hello there. Welcome to the CL show.
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>> Hello there. Welcome to the CL show. >> Thank you. Thank you.
0:41
>> Thank you. Thank you.
0:41
>> Thank you. Thank you. >> How are you?
0:43
>> How are you?
0:43
>> How are you? >> I'm fine. I'm still recovering a bit
0:45
>> I'm fine. I'm still recovering a bit
0:45
>> I'm fine. I'm still recovering a bit from a festival this weekend, but I'm
0:48
from a festival this weekend, but I'm
0:48
from a festival this weekend, but I'm alive.
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alive.
0:49
alive. >> Intriguing. Well, uh, so other than
0:52
>> Intriguing. Well, uh, so other than
0:52
>> Intriguing. Well, uh, so other than festivals, tell tell the audience just
0:53
festivals, tell tell the audience just
0:53
festivals, tell tell the audience just briefly who are you, where are you, and
0:55
briefly who are you, where are you, and
0:55
briefly who are you, where are you, and and what are you what are you up to?
0:58
and what are you what are you up to?
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and what are you what are you up to? >> Um, yes. Hi, I'm Julie Jakri. I am a net
1:02
>> Um, yes. Hi, I'm Julie Jakri. I am a net
1:02
>> Um, yes. Hi, I'm Julie Jakri. I am a net developer in my day-to-day life. Um, I'm
1:06
developer in my day-to-day life. Um, I'm
1:06
developer in my day-to-day life. Um, I'm also an MVP now in two categories since
1:09
also an MVP now in two categories since
1:09
also an MVP now in two categories since uh, two weeks now, I think.
1:11
uh, two weeks now, I think.
1:11
uh, two weeks now, I think. >> Nice.
1:11
>> Nice.
1:12
>> Nice. >> Um, yeah, really happy about it. And I'm
1:14
>> Um, yeah, really happy about it. And I'm
1:14
>> Um, yeah, really happy about it. And I'm also a speaker, so I'm at a lot of tech
1:16
also a speaker, so I'm at a lot of tech
1:16
also a speaker, so I'm at a lot of tech conferences in Europe in the
1:18
conferences in Europe in the
1:18
conferences in Europe in the Netherlands. I am from the Netherlands.
1:20
Netherlands. I am from the Netherlands.
1:20
Netherlands. I am from the Netherlands. Um yeah, so I work four days a week for
1:23
Um yeah, so I work four days a week for
1:23
Um yeah, so I work four days a week for uh for.net which is a consultancy
1:27
uh for.net which is a consultancy
1:27
uh for.net which is a consultancy >> um company and besides that I'm working
1:31
>> um company and besides that I'm working
1:31
>> um company and besides that I'm working on my own startup.
1:33
on my own startup.
1:33
on my own startup. >> Nice. And the startup is what we're
1:35
>> Nice. And the startup is what we're
1:35
>> Nice. And the startup is what we're going to talk about specifically today.
1:37
going to talk about specifically today.
1:37
going to talk about specifically today. So now we know we know where you are,
1:39
So now we know we know where you are,
1:39
So now we know we know where you are, who you are, where you work that and
1:41
who you are, where you work that and
1:41
who you are, where you work that and that you like uh festivals. So I mean
1:44
that you like uh festivals. So I mean
1:44
that you like uh festivals. So I mean it's good we're off we're off to a great
1:46
it's good we're off we're off to a great
1:46
it's good we're off we're off to a great start. That's perfect.
1:48
start. That's perfect.
1:48
start. That's perfect. Right. So very welcome to the cloud show
1:51
Right. So very welcome to the cloud show
1:51
Right. So very welcome to the cloud show and I wanted to talk to you and connect
1:53
and I wanted to talk to you and connect
1:53
and I wanted to talk to you and connect with you about startups because you and
1:55
with you about startups because you and
1:55
with you about startups because you and I were talking about that last time when
1:57
I were talking about that last time when
1:57
I were talking about that last time when we met and I said hey this this is going
1:58
we met and I said hey this this is going
1:58
we met and I said hey this this is going to be a good episode for the cloud show
2:00
to be a good episode for the cloud show
2:00
to be a good episode for the cloud show to talk about tech of course but but uh
2:03
to talk about tech of course but but uh
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to talk about tech of course but but uh in the context of of setting up and
2:05
in the context of of setting up and
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in the context of of setting up and running a startup.
2:07
running a startup.
2:07
running a startup. >> Yeah.
2:08
>> Yeah.
2:08
>> Yeah. >> Tell me briefly like what is the what is
2:10
>> Tell me briefly like what is the what is
2:10
>> Tell me briefly like what is the what is the startup uh what are you going to do
2:12
the startup uh what are you going to do
2:12
the startup uh what are you going to do and and how did you come up with that
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and and how did you come up with that
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and and how did you come up with that idea?
2:15
idea?
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idea? Well, uh, I'm building an app, uh, an
2:17
Well, uh, I'm building an app, uh, an
2:17
Well, uh, I'm building an app, uh, an app for people with food allergies and
2:19
app for people with food allergies and
2:19
app for people with food allergies and food intolerances, uh, now targeted, uh,
2:22
food intolerances, uh, now targeted, uh,
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food intolerances, uh, now targeted, uh, for the Netherlands at first. Um, and
2:25
for the Netherlands at first. Um, and
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for the Netherlands at first. Um, and it's an app where you can find products
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it's an app where you can find products
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it's an app where you can find products and you can find, um, if it contains
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and you can find, um, if it contains
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and you can find, um, if it contains allergens that you cannot eat. Um, or
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allergens that you cannot eat. Um, or
2:32
allergens that you cannot eat. Um, or you can just like give an evaluation if
2:34
you can just like give an evaluation if
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you can just like give an evaluation if you can or cannot cannot eat it. Um, you
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you can or cannot cannot eat it. Um, you
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you can or cannot cannot eat it. Um, you can also add there's also diary where
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can also add there's also diary where
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can also add there's also diary where you can enter what you have eaten and
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you can enter what you have eaten and
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you can enter what you have eaten and then it can find patterns. For example,
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then it can find patterns. For example,
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then it can find patterns. For example, there are a lot of people who are
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there are a lot of people who are
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there are a lot of people who are feeling sick after they've eaten a lot
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feeling sick after they've eaten a lot
2:48
feeling sick after they've eaten a lot of things all day and they don't know
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of things all day and they don't know
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of things all day and they don't know what it is. Um, you can then enter what
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what it is. Um, you can then enter what
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what it is. Um, you can then enter what you've eaten for a while and then it
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you've eaten for a while and then it
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you've eaten for a while and then it will try to guess what you could
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will try to guess what you could
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will try to guess what you could possibly be sick uh getting sick of. So,
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possibly be sick uh getting sick of. So,
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possibly be sick uh getting sick of. So, um yeah, that's what I um that's what
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um yeah, that's what I um that's what
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um yeah, that's what I um that's what that's what I'm building. Um, and I
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that's what I'm building. Um, and I
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that's what I'm building. Um, and I started with it because uh, well, I used
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started with it because uh, well, I used
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started with it because uh, well, I used to be able to eat everything that I
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to be able to eat everything that I
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to be able to eat everything that I wanted to eat always until I was 19. And
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wanted to eat always until I was 19. And
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wanted to eat always until I was 19. And then, uh, I started to get really,
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then, uh, I started to get really,
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then, uh, I started to get really, really sick. And after months of going
3:19
really sick. And after months of going
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really sick. And after months of going to the hospital and doing tests, uh,
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to the hospital and doing tests, uh,
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to the hospital and doing tests, uh, they found out that I have two food
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they found out that I have two food
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they found out that I have two food intolerances, who have lactose and
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intolerances, who have lactose and
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intolerances, who have lactose and fructose intolerance. And lactose is
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fructose intolerance. And lactose is
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fructose intolerance. And lactose is everything that contains milk basically.
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everything that contains milk basically.
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everything that contains milk basically. And fructose is all things with
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And fructose is all things with
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And fructose is all things with vegetables and fruits and yeah,
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vegetables and fruits and yeah,
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vegetables and fruits and yeah, everything that contains a high doses of
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everything that contains a high doses of
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everything that contains a high doses of natural sugars basically.
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natural sugars basically.
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natural sugars basically. >> So that that suddenly gave me like an
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>> So that that suddenly gave me like an
3:43
>> So that that suddenly gave me like an enormous list of things I couldn't eat.
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enormous list of things I couldn't eat.
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enormous list of things I couldn't eat. Um, and if you're not used to it, it's
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Um, and if you're not used to it, it's
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Um, and if you're not used to it, it's kind of hard and I couldn't find an app
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kind of hard and I couldn't find an app
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kind of hard and I couldn't find an app that suit Yeah. that suited my needs in
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that suit Yeah. that suited my needs in
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that suit Yeah. that suited my needs in that way to have like a personal list of
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that way to have like a personal list of
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that way to have like a personal list of everything that I cannot eat.
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everything that I cannot eat.
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everything that I cannot eat. So that's where where it came from. And
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So that's where where it came from. And
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So that's where where it came from. And u Yeah.
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u Yeah.
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u Yeah. >> So now you eat steak and drink alcohol
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>> So now you eat steak and drink alcohol
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>> So now you eat steak and drink alcohol and stuff.
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and stuff.
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and stuff. >> I just eat steak and fries and I I only
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>> I just eat steak and fries and I I only
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>> I just eat steak and fries and I I only drink alcohol. Yeah, exactly. Perfect.
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drink alcohol. Yeah, exactly. Perfect.
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drink alcohol. Yeah, exactly. Perfect. >> Sounds sounds like the life. Where can I
4:14
>> Sounds sounds like the life. Where can I
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>> Sounds sounds like the life. Where can I sign up for this? I'm kidding. Joe,
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sign up for this? I'm kidding. Joe,
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sign up for this? I'm kidding. Joe, sorry. Having an allergy is a serious
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sorry. Having an allergy is a serious
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sorry. Having an allergy is a serious business. All right. All right. All
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business. All right. All right. All
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business. All right. All right. All right. So I mean that's how many of the
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right. So I mean that's how many of the
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right. So I mean that's how many of the best ideas get started, right? you have
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best ideas get started, right? you have
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best ideas get started, right? you have a personal connection to it some reason
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a personal connection to it some reason
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a personal connection to it some reason and this was like you you you you had
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and this was like you you you you had
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and this was like you you you you had there was a gap there you you wanted to
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there was a gap there you you wanted to
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there was a gap there you you wanted to know like what can I eat this and and
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know like what can I eat this and and
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know like what can I eat this and and you couldn't find out.
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you couldn't find out.
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you couldn't find out. >> So that's a brilliant brilliant way of
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>> So that's a brilliant brilliant way of
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>> So that's a brilliant brilliant way of getting started with it. So
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getting started with it. So
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getting started with it. So >> um startup you like all of a sudden I'm
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>> um startup you like all of a sudden I'm
4:42
>> um startup you like all of a sudden I'm going to build an app and then all of
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going to build an app and then all of
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going to build an app and then all of then you figured out like okay I'm going
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then you figured out like okay I'm going
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then you figured out like okay I'm going to turn this into a startup. How did
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to turn this into a startup. How did
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to turn this into a startup. How did that happen?
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that happen?
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that happen? >> Yeah. Well, at first I was kind of
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>> Yeah. Well, at first I was kind of
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>> Yeah. Well, at first I was kind of playing around with the idea because
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playing around with the idea because
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playing around with the idea because when I uh got sick, it was before I
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when I uh got sick, it was before I
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when I uh got sick, it was before I started uh computer science. So, I had
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started uh computer science. So, I had
4:58
started uh computer science. So, I had to take two in between years um before I
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to take two in between years um before I
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to take two in between years um before I could actually start with with computer
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could actually start with with computer
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could actually start with with computer science. And then well, I had to do
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science. And then well, I had to do
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science. And then well, I had to do computer science before I knew how to
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computer science before I knew how to
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computer science before I knew how to learn to make apps. Um
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learn to make apps. Um
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learn to make apps. Um >> and then uh besides studying, I also
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>> and then uh besides studying, I also
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>> and then uh besides studying, I also built apps for other people as like
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built apps for other people as like
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built apps for other people as like part-time job. Um so then I kind of got
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part-time job. Um so then I kind of got
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part-time job. Um so then I kind of got the hang of it of all the things that
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the hang of it of all the things that
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the hang of it of all the things that are
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are
5:20
are >> necessary to know to build an app for
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>> necessary to know to build an app for
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>> necessary to know to build an app for the real world.
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the real world.
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the real world. >> Um and also with school project I I
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>> Um and also with school project I I
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>> Um and also with school project I I tried different ideas and at the last
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tried different ideas and at the last
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tried different ideas and at the last year of my study I had a course where I
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year of my study I had a course where I
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year of my study I had a course where I could completely build the app with
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could completely build the app with
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could completely build the app with support from uh teachers and um where I
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support from uh teachers and um where I
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support from uh teachers and um where I also had to validate my ideas. So, I had
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also had to validate my ideas. So, I had
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also had to validate my ideas. So, I had multiple groups of people uh with
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multiple groups of people uh with
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multiple groups of people uh with allergies with intolerances that I could
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allergies with intolerances that I could
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allergies with intolerances that I could ask things about my app, if they would
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ask things about my app, if they would
5:48
ask things about my app, if they would like it, if they wouldn't, and uh if
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like it, if they wouldn't, and uh if
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like it, if they wouldn't, and uh if they were were willing to pay for it, uh
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they were were willing to pay for it, uh
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they were were willing to pay for it, uh things like that. And everybody was so
5:56
things like that. And everybody was so
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things like that. And everybody was so um enthusiastic about it
5:59
um enthusiastic about it
5:59
um enthusiastic about it >> that that give me the incentive of,
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>> that that give me the incentive of,
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>> that that give me the incentive of, okay, maybe I should really make this a
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okay, maybe I should really make this a
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okay, maybe I should really make this a product and build something professional
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product and build something professional
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product and build something professional out of it. Because yeah, at first I was
6:08
out of it. Because yeah, at first I was
6:08
out of it. Because yeah, at first I was just building it for myself, but now I'm
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just building it for myself, but now I'm
6:11
just building it for myself, but now I'm now I thought
6:11
now I thought
6:11
now I thought >> Right. That's a great story. So you have
6:13
>> Right. That's a great story. So you have
6:13
>> Right. That's a great story. So you have like a reference group now with people
6:15
like a reference group now with people
6:15
like a reference group now with people who are your you're your sort of guinea
6:18
who are your you're your sort of guinea
6:18
who are your you're your sort of guinea pigs for your
6:19
pigs for your
6:20
pigs for your >> Yes,
6:21
>> Yes,
6:21
>> Yes, exactly.
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exactly.
6:22
exactly. >> I tried to Oh, sorry. Got it wrong. Did
6:25
>> I tried to Oh, sorry. Got it wrong. Did
6:25
>> I tried to Oh, sorry. Got it wrong. Did you get an analogic re reaction to to
6:27
you get an analogic re reaction to to
6:27
you get an analogic re reaction to to that?
6:29
that?
6:29
that? >> No, it's all on your own. Everybody
6:30
>> No, it's all on your own. Everybody
6:30
>> No, it's all on your own. Everybody should still read like the label on the
6:33
should still read like the label on the
6:33
should still read like the label on the on the packages.
6:35
on the packages.
6:35
on the packages. I'm not source of truth.
6:37
I'm not source of truth.
6:37
I'm not source of truth. >> So can people who are using the app
6:39
>> So can people who are using the app
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>> So can people who are using the app register things then? I mean if they
6:42
register things then? I mean if they
6:42
register things then? I mean if they find something or
6:43
find something or
6:43
find something or >> Yeah. Yeah. They can um well they can
6:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. They can um well they can
6:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. They can um well they can find it and if it's not there they can
6:47
find it and if it's not there they can
6:47
find it and if it's not there they can ask for it and then I can just find it
6:49
ask for it and then I can just find it
6:49
ask for it and then I can just find it and put it in my database but they they
6:51
and put it in my database but they they
6:52
and put it in my database but they they can also like uh put a custom
6:54
can also like uh put a custom
6:54
can also like uh put a custom evaluation. So
6:56
evaluation. So
6:56
evaluation. So >> um of course the app is basing all all
6:59
>> um of course the app is basing all all
6:59
>> um of course the app is basing all all the evaluations on what you can and
7:01
the evaluations on what you can and
7:01
the evaluations on what you can and cannot eat. But for example with lactose
7:03
cannot eat. But for example with lactose
7:03
cannot eat. But for example with lactose intolerance um every person that has
7:06
intolerance um every person that has
7:06
intolerance um every person that has lactose intolerance we responds
7:07
lactose intolerance we responds
7:07
lactose intolerance we responds differently to each product. So I know
7:09
differently to each product. So I know
7:09
differently to each product. So I know people who cannot eat any cheese at all
7:11
people who cannot eat any cheese at all
7:11
people who cannot eat any cheese at all but I can eat some kinds of cheese. So
7:14
but I can eat some kinds of cheese. So
7:14
but I can eat some kinds of cheese. So you in my app you have like this freedom
7:17
you in my app you have like this freedom
7:17
you in my app you have like this freedom of deciding of each product how it fits
7:21
of deciding of each product how it fits
7:21
of deciding of each product how it fits your needs if you can eat it or not.
7:24
your needs if you can eat it or not.
7:24
your needs if you can eat it or not. >> Makes sense. That makes sense. I like
7:26
>> Makes sense. That makes sense. I like
7:26
>> Makes sense. That makes sense. I like that. I like the I like the idea and
7:28
that. I like the I like the idea and
7:28
that. I like the I like the idea and then it fills like you said it fills a
7:30
then it fills like you said it fills a
7:30
then it fills like you said it fills a gap and then it fills an important
7:31
gap and then it fills an important
7:31
gap and then it fills an important function in society. I mean if there
7:33
function in society. I mean if there
7:33
function in society. I mean if there wasn't really a good app for it and
7:35
wasn't really a good app for it and
7:35
wasn't really a good app for it and somebody like you would be able to find
7:37
somebody like you would be able to find
7:37
somebody like you would be able to find out and and if you couldn't find it then
7:40
out and and if you couldn't find it then
7:40
out and and if you couldn't find it then it probably wasn't there. So it's very
7:41
it probably wasn't there. So it's very
7:41
it probably wasn't there. So it's very cool. Um so what has been I mean what
7:45
cool. Um so what has been I mean what
7:46
cool. Um so what has been I mean what has been challenging on this road here
7:48
has been challenging on this road here
7:48
has been challenging on this road here like you both both as as in starting a
7:51
like you both both as as in starting a
7:51
like you both both as as in starting a startup of course if there are any
7:53
startup of course if there are any
7:53
startup of course if there are any particular things that jumps out but
7:54
particular things that jumps out but
7:54
particular things that jumps out but also um in technology I mean you have to
7:57
also um in technology I mean you have to
7:57
also um in technology I mean you have to have a a pretty solid tech stack for
7:59
have a a pretty solid tech stack for
7:59
have a a pretty solid tech stack for this to set this up you need databases
8:01
this to set this up you need databases
8:01
this to set this up you need databases and things
8:02
and things
8:02
and things >> yes I do uh so I built I built the app
8:06
>> yes I do uh so I built I built the app
8:06
>> yes I do uh so I built I built the app inn net Maui
8:08
inn net Maui
8:08
inn net Maui >> um and I have an API behind it in uh
8:12
>> um and I have an API behind it in uh
8:12
>> um and I have an API behind it in uh alternate and I used to have a Cosmos DB
8:15
alternate and I used to have a Cosmos DB
8:15
alternate and I used to have a Cosmos DB database but it's expensive and
8:17
database but it's expensive and
8:17
database but it's expensive and sometimes complicated.
8:19
sometimes complicated.
8:19
sometimes complicated. So
8:21
So
8:21
So um and so I changed it for MongoDB
8:24
um and so I changed it for MongoDB
8:24
um and so I changed it for MongoDB database both document store.
8:27
database both document store.
8:27
database both document store. >> Um and I used to have enter ID as a
8:30
>> Um and I used to have enter ID as a
8:30
>> Um and I used to have enter ID as a authentication provider but I switched
8:32
authentication provider but I switched
8:32
authentication provider but I switched to Firebase because also it was easier
8:34
to Firebase because also it was easier
8:34
to Firebase because also it was easier and more reliable which is kind of going
8:37
and more reliable which is kind of going
8:37
and more reliable which is kind of going against my belief of being
8:40
against my belief of being
8:40
against my belief of being >> programming. I know. I know. It was all
8:44
>> programming. I know. I know. It was all
8:44
>> programming. I know. I know. It was all our choice
8:44
our choice
8:44
our choice >> experiences like if some if somebody
8:46
>> experiences like if some if somebody
8:46
>> experiences like if some if somebody like you um struggles with certain tech
8:49
like you um struggles with certain tech
8:49
like you um struggles with certain tech then uh as a tech provider they would
8:52
then uh as a tech provider they would
8:52
then uh as a tech provider they would most certainly want to know exactly what
8:54
most certainly want to know exactly what
8:54
most certainly want to know exactly what your problems are, right?
8:55
your problems are, right?
8:55
your problems are, right? >> Exactly. Yeah. Well, I did I did uh
8:58
>> Exactly. Yeah. Well, I did I did uh
8:58
>> Exactly. Yeah. Well, I did I did uh communicate some of my problems with the
9:01
communicate some of my problems with the
9:01
communicate some of my problems with the ent external ID team
9:04
ent external ID team
9:04
ent external ID team >> because yeah, it's like I cannot use
9:06
>> because yeah, it's like I cannot use
9:06
>> because yeah, it's like I cannot use this. For example, I I had one of my
9:09
this. For example, I I had one of my
9:09
this. For example, I I had one of my testers saying that he had to wait for
9:11
testers saying that he had to wait for
9:11
testers saying that he had to wait for one and a half hours to get his OTP code
9:14
one and a half hours to get his OTP code
9:14
one and a half hours to get his OTP code to be able to log in. Yeah. So, that was
9:16
to be able to log in. Yeah. So, that was
9:16
to be able to log in. Yeah. So, that was >> you're going to be very hungry at that
9:18
>> you're going to be very hungry at that
9:18
>> you're going to be very hungry at that time, right?
9:19
time, right?
9:19
time, right? >> Like if you're waiting for it to check
9:21
>> Like if you're waiting for it to check
9:21
>> Like if you're waiting for it to check if you can eat something for hour and a
9:23
if you can eat something for hour and a
9:23
if you can eat something for hour and a half and it's like I'm super hungry now.
9:26
half and it's like I'm super hungry now.
9:26
half and it's like I'm super hungry now. >> Exactly. So, it's not not ideal. So,
9:29
>> Exactly. So, it's not not ideal. So,
9:29
>> Exactly. So, it's not not ideal. So, that's why I switched to uh to Firebase.
9:33
that's why I switched to uh to Firebase.
9:33
that's why I switched to uh to Firebase. But um yeah, I think one of the uh
9:36
But um yeah, I think one of the uh
9:36
But um yeah, I think one of the uh things that um that were difficult for
9:37
things that um that were difficult for
9:38
things that um that were difficult for me because I'm a developer at first um
9:41
me because I'm a developer at first um
9:41
me because I'm a developer at first um so what you want what you do as a
9:43
so what you want what you do as a
9:43
so what you want what you do as a developer you want to to build
9:45
developer you want to to build
9:45
developer you want to to build everything perfectly and
9:48
everything perfectly and
9:48
everything perfectly and >> that was one of the first struggles I
9:50
>> that was one of the first struggles I
9:50
>> that was one of the first struggles I well I'm still facing it to be honest.
9:52
well I'm still facing it to be honest.
9:52
well I'm still facing it to be honest. It's just a learning curve every time.
9:54
It's just a learning curve every time.
9:54
It's just a learning curve every time. So I took way too long to build the the
9:56
So I took way too long to build the the
9:56
So I took way too long to build the the the first testing
9:59
the first testing
10:00
the first testing >> version kind of yeah the MVP version
10:03
>> version kind of yeah the MVP version
10:03
>> version kind of yeah the MVP version because every time I was like okay maybe
10:05
because every time I was like okay maybe
10:06
because every time I was like okay maybe maybe I'm done but I don't think my
10:07
maybe I'm done but I don't think my
10:07
maybe I'm done but I don't think my codebase looks nice and then I was like
10:08
codebase looks nice and then I was like
10:08
codebase looks nice and then I was like refactoring my code base and then I went
10:10
refactoring my code base and then I went
10:10
refactoring my code base and then I went to a conference and I heard about
10:12
to a conference and I heard about
10:12
to a conference and I heard about vertical slicing architecture and I was
10:13
vertical slicing architecture and I was
10:13
vertical slicing architecture and I was like oh this is really cool. So then I
10:15
like oh this is really cool. So then I
10:15
like oh this is really cool. So then I refactor my code base again to do to
10:17
refactor my code base again to do to
10:17
refactor my code base again to do to match the vertical slice arch. Not that
10:18
match the vertical slice arch. Not that
10:18
match the vertical slice arch. Not that everybody who uses anybody who uses my
10:21
everybody who uses anybody who uses my
10:21
everybody who uses anybody who uses my app soon is see what my code looks like.
10:25
app soon is see what my code looks like.
10:25
app soon is see what my code looks like. But
10:26
But
10:26
But >> because you're a developer, you're just
10:28
>> because you're a developer, you're just
10:28
>> because you're a developer, you're just constantly trying to make things better
10:30
constantly trying to make things better
10:30
constantly trying to make things better and you want to do everything perfectly.
10:32
and you want to do everything perfectly.
10:32
and you want to do everything perfectly. So also I
10:35
So also I
10:35
So also I >> API services in Azure. I uh first I
10:39
>> API services in Azure. I uh first I
10:39
>> API services in Azure. I uh first I hosted my app server in app servers in
10:42
hosted my app server in app servers in
10:42
hosted my app server in app servers in the best settings and then it was really
10:44
the best settings and then it was really
10:44
the best settings and then it was really expensive and it's like am I doing this
10:46
expensive and it's like am I doing this
10:46
expensive and it's like am I doing this like I don't really need it but you
10:48
like I don't really need it but you
10:48
like I don't really need it but you wanted the best out of the best from the
10:50
wanted the best out of the best from the
10:50
wanted the best out of the best from the start.
10:51
start.
10:51
start. >> Um yeah so that's one of the things that
10:54
>> Um yeah so that's one of the things that
10:54
>> Um yeah so that's one of the things that you should really
10:56
you should really
10:56
you should really um look out for that you're not trying
10:58
um look out for that you're not trying
10:58
um look out for that you're not trying to make it perfect all the time because
11:01
to make it perfect all the time because
11:01
to make it perfect all the time because then it will never be done ever. You can
11:04
then it will never be done ever. You can
11:04
then it will never be done ever. You can just
11:05
just
11:05
just >> then some smartass comes along and says
11:07
>> then some smartass comes along and says
11:07
>> then some smartass comes along and says that shipping is a feature, right?
11:09
that shipping is a feature, right?
11:09
that shipping is a feature, right? >> Yeah.
11:12
>> Yeah.
11:12
>> Yeah. >> Yes, I know.
11:15
>> Yes, I know.
11:15
>> Yes, I know. >> But it is true, right? It is true. You
11:17
>> But it is true, right? It is true. You
11:17
>> But it is true, right? It is true. You have to actually get something out there
11:19
have to actually get something out there
11:19
have to actually get something out there with your testers and and have you found
11:21
with your testers and and have you found
11:21
with your testers and and have you found that and I think that that's an
11:23
that and I think that that's an
11:23
that and I think that that's an experience that I have have heard about
11:25
experience that I have have heard about
11:25
experience that I have have heard about before is that
11:27
before is that
11:27
before is that >> you think you know what it's going to be
11:28
>> you think you know what it's going to be
11:28
>> you think you know what it's going to be like. you think you're right and you
11:30
like. you think you're right and you
11:30
like. you think you're right and you think everything is going to be the way
11:31
think everything is going to be the way
11:31
think everything is going to be the way that you thought of it and and then you
11:34
that you thought of it and and then you
11:34
that you thought of it and and then you put it in front of some some users, some
11:36
put it in front of some some users, some
11:36
put it in front of some some users, some some intended end users and they come up
11:38
some intended end users and they come up
11:38
some intended end users and they come up with completely different things and
11:39
with completely different things and
11:39
with completely different things and you're like what?
11:41
you're like what?
11:41
you're like what? >> Yeah. Yeah. That was also a very
11:43
>> Yeah. Yeah. That was also a very
11:44
>> Yeah. Yeah. That was also a very difficult lesson.
11:45
difficult lesson.
11:45
difficult lesson. I my first draft of this app was way
11:49
I my first draft of this app was way
11:49
I my first draft of this app was way different than how it looks now. And
11:50
different than how it looks now. And
11:50
different than how it looks now. And that that was because of these these
11:52
that that was because of these these
11:52
that that was because of these these user groups that I had. Um I did a lot
11:55
user groups that I had. Um I did a lot
11:55
user groups that I had. Um I did a lot of AB testing as well with different
11:57
of AB testing as well with different
11:57
of AB testing as well with different screens, different colors. I like colors
11:59
screens, different colors. I like colors
11:59
screens, different colors. I like colors and I like everything shiny and and
12:02
and I like everything shiny and and
12:02
and I like everything shiny and and intense and fancy. Um, and there were a
12:05
intense and fancy. Um, and there were a
12:05
intense and fancy. Um, and there were a lot of features of which I thought were
12:07
lot of features of which I thought were
12:07
lot of features of which I thought were amazing. Um, and that my user group just
12:10
amazing. Um, and that my user group just
12:10
amazing. Um, and that my user group just didn't like it.
12:11
didn't like it.
12:11
didn't like it. >> Oh,
12:12
>> Oh,
12:12
>> Oh, >> or didn't see the need for it. But also
12:15
>> or didn't see the need for it. But also
12:15
>> or didn't see the need for it. But also at the other hand, there were a lot of
12:16
at the other hand, there were a lot of
12:16
at the other hand, there were a lot of features that I didn't think of that
12:18
features that I didn't think of that
12:18
features that I didn't think of that they uh told me like
12:20
they uh told me like
12:20
they uh told me like >> but they need it. Yeah.
12:21
>> but they need it. Yeah.
12:21
>> but they need it. Yeah. >> Yeah. I really need this. So I think
12:23
>> Yeah. I really need this. So I think
12:23
>> Yeah. I really need this. So I think that's also a very u good lesson to
12:26
that's also a very u good lesson to
12:26
that's also a very u good lesson to learn. like ask feedback from the start.
12:28
learn. like ask feedback from the start.
12:28
learn. like ask feedback from the start. >> Feedback early, right? Ship something
12:30
>> Feedback early, right? Ship something
12:30
>> Feedback early, right? Ship something even if it's not perfect. It's not going
12:32
even if it's not perfect. It's not going
12:32
even if it's not perfect. It's not going to be perfect. And then and and first of
12:35
to be perfect. And then and and first of
12:35
to be perfect. And then and and first of all, you may you may have over spent a
12:37
all, you may you may have over spent a
12:37
all, you may you may have over spent a lot of time on it thinking that it
12:38
lot of time on it thinking that it
12:38
lot of time on it thinking that it actually is perfect and then you put it
12:40
actually is perfect and then you put it
12:40
actually is perfect and then you put it in front of people and they tell you
12:41
in front of people and they tell you
12:41
in front of people and they tell you that it's
12:42
that it's
12:42
that it's >> Exactly.
12:44
>> Exactly.
12:44
>> Exactly. >> Like so feedback cycles, having
12:47
>> Like so feedback cycles, having
12:47
>> Like so feedback cycles, having reference groups, get it out there, test
12:49
reference groups, get it out there, test
12:49
reference groups, get it out there, test it often with people, right?
12:51
it often with people, right?
12:51
it often with people, right? >> Exactly. Yeah, you have to do that. I
12:52
>> Exactly. Yeah, you have to do that. I
12:52
>> Exactly. Yeah, you have to do that. I think that's the most important thing.
12:54
think that's the most important thing.
12:54
think that's the most important thing. Uh I think there are two things
12:56
Uh I think there are two things
12:56
Uh I think there are two things important of uh getting the startup off
12:59
important of uh getting the startup off
12:59
important of uh getting the startup off the ground is like yeah you really have
13:01
the ground is like yeah you really have
13:01
the ground is like yeah you really have to be passionate about it because it's
13:02
to be passionate about it because it's
13:02
to be passionate about it because it's going to cost you a lot of time.
13:04
going to cost you a lot of time.
13:04
going to cost you a lot of time. >> Oh yeah.
13:04
>> Oh yeah.
13:04
>> Oh yeah. >> And you're going to hate it sometimes.
13:06
>> And you're going to hate it sometimes.
13:06
>> And you're going to hate it sometimes. Really hate it.
13:07
Really hate it.
13:07
Really hate it. >> You're going to have to do a lot of
13:08
>> You're going to have to do a lot of
13:08
>> You're going to have to do a lot of things you don't want to do.
13:09
things you don't want to do.
13:09
things you don't want to do. >> Um and ask feedback early on because
13:13
>> Um and ask feedback early on because
13:13
>> Um and ask feedback early on because otherwise you're spending all this time
13:15
otherwise you're spending all this time
13:15
otherwise you're spending all this time to things that might not even be worth
13:17
to things that might not even be worth
13:17
to things that might not even be worth shipping. Um
13:20
shipping. Um
13:20
shipping. Um >> and
13:22
>> and
13:22
>> and >> um yeah also
13:23
>> um yeah also
13:23
>> um yeah also >> I just thought of something. Do you have
13:24
>> I just thought of something. Do you have
13:24
>> I just thought of something. Do you have do you have this like Ashure for
13:26
do you have this like Ashure for
13:26
do you have this like Ashure for startups or startups some support from
13:28
startups or startups some support from
13:28
startups or startups some support from Microsoft or something?
13:30
Microsoft or something?
13:30
Microsoft or something? >> I did but I um because my project took
13:34
>> I did but I um because my project took
13:34
>> I did but I um because my project took like way too long I got out of the I
13:38
like way too long I got out of the I
13:38
like way too long I got out of the I just like recently
13:40
just like recently
13:40
just like recently >> wasn't extended because I took
13:43
>> wasn't extended because I took
13:43
>> wasn't extended because I took >> So you have had it the the startup
13:45
>> So you have had it the the startup
13:45
>> So you have had it the the startup thing. So there are all the major
13:48
thing. So there are all the major
13:48
thing. So there are all the major vendors have startup programs that they
13:50
vendors have startup programs that they
13:50
vendors have startup programs that they want to use to support and you know get
13:52
want to use to support and you know get
13:52
want to use to support and you know get you into their tech. I guess you were an
13:54
you into their tech. I guess you were an
13:54
you into their tech. I guess you were an easy sale because you were already into
13:56
easy sale because you were already into
13:56
easy sale because you were already into Microsoft.
13:56
Microsoft.
13:56
Microsoft. >> Exactly.
13:57
>> Exactly.
13:57
>> Exactly. >> They didn't gain a new customer there
13:59
>> They didn't gain a new customer there
13:59
>> They didn't gain a new customer there like
14:01
like
14:01
like >> but still
14:03
>> but still
14:03
>> but still >> yeah in Microsoft has it. I don't know
14:05
>> yeah in Microsoft has it. I don't know
14:05
>> yeah in Microsoft has it. I don't know uh Amazon, Google, MongoDB, they all
14:08
uh Amazon, Google, MongoDB, they all
14:08
uh Amazon, Google, MongoDB, they all have these programs where you can just
14:10
have these programs where you can just
14:10
have these programs where you can just sign up, send your idea and then they
14:12
sign up, send your idea and then they
14:12
sign up, send your idea and then they will check it and then they give you a
14:14
will check it and then they give you a
14:14
will check it and then they give you a sponsorship in in the form of credits so
14:17
sponsorship in in the form of credits so
14:17
sponsorship in in the form of credits so that you can use their services for an X
14:19
that you can use their services for an X
14:19
that you can use their services for an X amount of time. Most of the time it's a
14:21
amount of time. Most of the time it's a
14:21
amount of time. Most of the time it's a year or when your credits or when you're
14:24
year or when your credits or when you're
14:24
year or when your credits or when you're out of credit. Uh and that could really
14:26
out of credit. Uh and that could really
14:26
out of credit. Uh and that could really help you to get started and to um yeah
14:30
help you to get started and to um yeah
14:30
help you to get started and to um yeah to to to help building your app. Uh what
14:32
to to to help building your app. Uh what
14:32
to to to help building your app. Uh what I noticed though on the other hand is
14:34
I noticed though on the other hand is
14:34
I noticed though on the other hand is that uh because if you have those
14:36
that uh because if you have those
14:36
that uh because if you have those credits you get quite
14:39
credits you get quite
14:39
credits you get quite how do you say sloppy or easy with
14:42
how do you say sloppy or easy with
14:42
how do you say sloppy or easy with spending money.
14:43
spending money.
14:43
spending money. >> Oh interesting.
14:44
>> Oh interesting.
14:44
>> Oh interesting. >> Yeah.
14:45
>> Yeah.
14:45
>> Yeah. >> All this stuff
14:47
>> All this stuff
14:47
>> All this stuff >> and then it runs out.
14:48
>> and then it runs out.
14:48
>> and then it runs out. >> Exactly. So now now you have all this
14:50
>> Exactly. So now now you have all this
14:50
>> Exactly. So now now you have all this stuff and and what if it runs out like
14:52
stuff and and what if it runs out like
14:52
stuff and and what if it runs out like what if you don't have it anymore
14:54
what if you don't have it anymore
14:54
what if you don't have it anymore because there's an expiration date. It
14:55
because there's an expiration date. It
14:56
because there's an expiration date. It lasts a year sometimes two. Um and for
14:58
lasts a year sometimes two. Um and for
14:58
lasts a year sometimes two. Um and for me now it was at the end of of I was at
15:01
me now it was at the end of of I was at
15:01
me now it was at the end of of I was at the end of my expiration date. Um so
15:04
the end of my expiration date. Um so
15:04
the end of my expiration date. Um so then I really had to re-evaluate all the
15:06
then I really had to re-evaluate all the
15:06
then I really had to re-evaluate all the things I was spending money on. Um
15:09
things I was spending money on. Um
15:09
things I was spending money on. Um >> and that is and that made me uh took
15:12
>> and that is and that made me uh took
15:12
>> and that is and that made me uh took made me take a couple of steps back
15:14
made me take a couple of steps back
15:14
made me take a couple of steps back because then I had to check okay do I
15:16
because then I had to check okay do I
15:16
because then I had to check okay do I really need to spend this money and if I
15:18
really need to spend this money and if I
15:18
really need to spend this money and if I am going to spend this money it will be
15:20
am going to spend this money it will be
15:20
am going to spend this money it will be out of my own pocket of course but I
15:22
out of my own pocket of course but I
15:22
out of my own pocket of course but I also need to create a business plan
15:23
also need to create a business plan
15:24
also need to create a business plan which makes it sustainable because well
15:27
which makes it sustainable because well
15:27
which makes it sustainable because well I'm shipping a product I have to make
15:28
I'm shipping a product I have to make
15:28
I'm shipping a product I have to make money somehow um and that has to be
15:31
money somehow um and that has to be
15:31
money somehow um and that has to be enough money to to keep the app alive. I
15:35
enough money to to keep the app alive. I
15:35
enough money to to keep the app alive. I mean I can like um if I don't have more
15:38
mean I can like um if I don't have more
15:38
mean I can like um if I don't have more than 100 users I can pay it for pay for
15:41
than 100 users I can pay it for pay for
15:41
than 100 users I can pay it for pay for it myself but if it has a 100,000 users
15:44
it myself but if it has a 100,000 users
15:44
it myself but if it has a 100,000 users over the next couple of years I need to
15:46
over the next couple of years I need to
15:46
over the next couple of years I need to be able to um pay all the ashure things
15:50
be able to um pay all the ashure things
15:50
be able to um pay all the ashure things I have to pay. So yeah.
15:53
I have to pay. So yeah.
15:53
I have to pay. So yeah. Oh, you're muted.
15:56
Oh, you're muted.
15:56
Oh, you're muted. >> Sorry. Sorry. That was strange.
15:59
>> Sorry. Sorry. That was strange.
15:59
>> Sorry. Sorry. That was strange. Something happened with my I don't know
16:01
Something happened with my I don't know
16:01
Something happened with my I don't know why I said monetize. I said you have to
16:04
why I said monetize. I said you have to
16:04
why I said monetize. I said you have to actually then monetize it as well.
16:06
actually then monetize it as well.
16:06
actually then monetize it as well. >> Exactly.
16:07
>> Exactly.
16:07
>> Exactly. >> Yep. Yep.
16:09
>> Yep. Yep.
16:09
>> Yep. Yep. >> So that's the kind that's the other
16:10
>> So that's the kind that's the other
16:10
>> So that's the kind that's the other thing that makes it difficult because
16:12
thing that makes it difficult because
16:12
thing that makes it difficult because everybody a lot of developers have a
16:15
everybody a lot of developers have a
16:15
everybody a lot of developers have a project where which they are passionate
16:17
project where which they are passionate
16:17
project where which they are passionate about, right? But building it to a a
16:20
about, right? But building it to a a
16:20
about, right? But building it to a a real company or real startup. Um there
16:23
real company or real startup. Um there
16:23
real company or real startup. Um there are other things you have to think about
16:24
are other things you have to think about
16:24
are other things you have to think about that you have never thought of before
16:26
that you have never thought of before
16:26
that you have never thought of before like legal stuff. Uh, I had to like set
16:29
like legal stuff. Uh, I had to like set
16:29
like legal stuff. Uh, I had to like set up an agreement, a user agreement and
16:31
up an agreement, a user agreement and
16:31
up an agreement, a user agreement and privacy policy and I had to look at all
16:33
privacy policy and I had to look at all
16:33
privacy policy and I had to look at all the privacy laws and things like that
16:35
the privacy laws and things like that
16:36
the privacy laws and things like that and that is so incredibly boring. Uh,
16:38
and that is so incredibly boring. Uh,
16:38
and that is so incredibly boring. Uh, but you have to do it because that's
16:41
but you have to do it because that's
16:41
but you have to do it because that's part of it. That's why I was saying you
16:43
part of it. That's why I was saying you
16:43
part of it. That's why I was saying you have to be very passionate about it
16:45
have to be very passionate about it
16:45
have to be very passionate about it because this stuff is boring and knowing
16:49
because this stuff is boring and knowing
16:49
because this stuff is boring and knowing how to do taxes and uh of course you can
16:52
how to do taxes and uh of course you can
16:52
how to do taxes and uh of course you can hire people uh for it but well if it's
16:55
hire people uh for it but well if it's
16:55
hire people uh for it but well if it's just
16:56
just
16:56
just >> there's like data privacy stuff, right?
16:58
>> there's like data privacy stuff, right?
16:58
>> there's like data privacy stuff, right? You're handling people's data and it's
17:00
You're handling people's data and it's
17:00
You're handling people's data and it's kind of in a way a little bit sensitive
17:03
kind of in a way a little bit sensitive
17:03
kind of in a way a little bit sensitive as well because it it contains their
17:05
as well because it it contains their
17:05
as well because it it contains their medical information in a in a way,
17:07
medical information in a in a way,
17:07
medical information in a in a way, right? What they're allergic to and
17:09
right? What they're allergic to and
17:10
right? What they're allergic to and stuff like it's
17:10
stuff like it's
17:10
stuff like it's >> Yeah, exactly. So
17:12
>> Yeah, exactly. So
17:12
>> Yeah, exactly. So >> level of data that is kind of sensitive.
17:15
>> level of data that is kind of sensitive.
17:15
>> level of data that is kind of sensitive. >> Exactly. So those are uh other things
17:17
>> Exactly. So those are uh other things
17:18
>> Exactly. So those are uh other things that you don't immediately think about
17:19
that you don't immediately think about
17:20
that you don't immediately think about when you're just like creating a nice
17:21
when you're just like creating a nice
17:21
when you're just like creating a nice app or a nice product that you're yeah
17:24
app or a nice product that you're yeah
17:24
app or a nice product that you're yeah passionate about on on develing. But um
17:27
passionate about on on develing. But um
17:27
passionate about on on develing. But um yeah there are they they are very
17:29
yeah there are they they are very
17:29
yeah there are they they are very important and you have to spend time on
17:31
important and you have to spend time on
17:31
important and you have to spend time on that as well. So
17:34
that as well. So
17:34
that as well. So don't forget it if you're
17:37
don't forget it if you're
17:37
don't forget it if you're >> if you're thinking about creating this
17:40
>> if you're thinking about creating this
17:40
>> if you're thinking about creating this this kind of things.
17:42
this kind of things.
17:42
this kind of things. >> There has been so many uh good pieces of
17:45
>> There has been so many uh good pieces of
17:45
>> There has been so many uh good pieces of advice scattered literally over uh this
17:48
advice scattered literally over uh this
17:48
advice scattered literally over uh this whole episode that I can't like can you
17:51
whole episode that I can't like can you
17:51
whole episode that I can't like can you think of something else uh before we
17:53
think of something else uh before we
17:53
think of something else uh before we start closing out this episode? uh tips
17:56
start closing out this episode? uh tips
17:56
start closing out this episode? uh tips and tricks like what things that that uh
17:58
and tricks like what things that that uh
17:58
and tricks like what things that that uh you know what should people do if they
18:00
you know what should people do if they
18:00
you know what should people do if they want to start to take their passionate
18:03
want to start to take their passionate
18:03
want to start to take their passionate dream and make an app and a startup and
18:04
dream and make an app and a startup and
18:04
dream and make an app and a startup and what should they think about?
18:06
what should they think about?
18:06
what should they think about? >> Um I think most important thing is is
18:09
>> Um I think most important thing is is
18:09
>> Um I think most important thing is is ask for help ask others
18:12
ask for help ask others
18:12
ask for help ask others >> because at first I was very um because
18:15
>> because at first I was very um because
18:15
>> because at first I was very um because it was an idea that wasn't there yet. I
18:18
it was an idea that wasn't there yet. I
18:18
it was an idea that wasn't there yet. I was very protective of it. I didn't want
18:20
was very protective of it. I didn't want
18:20
was very protective of it. I didn't want to say tell to anyone because I was
18:22
to say tell to anyone because I was
18:22
to say tell to anyone because I was scared still my idea
18:24
scared still my idea
18:24
scared still my idea >> but I learned through time that by uh
18:28
>> but I learned through time that by uh
18:28
>> but I learned through time that by uh asking for help and asking other people
18:30
asking for help and asking other people
18:30
asking for help and asking other people what they think of the idea that that
18:32
what they think of the idea that that
18:32
what they think of the idea that that the idea was uh how do you say it
18:35
the idea was uh how do you say it
18:35
the idea was uh how do you say it evolving into a better idea and
18:38
evolving into a better idea and
18:38
evolving into a better idea and eventually in a product and I also got a
18:40
eventually in a product and I also got a
18:40
eventually in a product and I also got a lot of help from other people who had
18:42
lot of help from other people who had
18:42
lot of help from other people who had specialties I didn't even know about but
18:44
specialties I didn't even know about but
18:44
specialties I didn't even know about but if I didn't talk about them uh if I
18:47
if I didn't talk about them uh if I
18:47
if I didn't talk about them uh if I didn't talk to them about my app they I
18:49
didn't talk to them about my app they I
18:49
didn't talk to them about my app they I would have never known that they had
18:51
would have never known that they had
18:51
would have never known that they had never known.
18:52
never known.
18:52
never known. >> Huh. That's a great piece of advice. I
18:54
>> Huh. That's a great piece of advice. I
18:54
>> Huh. That's a great piece of advice. I love that. So find some people and and
18:58
love that. So find some people and and
18:58
love that. So find some people and and and just talk about it, right? Because
19:00
and just talk about it, right? Because
19:00
and just talk about it, right? Because you know they might call you out and say
19:02
you know they might call you out and say
19:02
you know they might call you out and say that's a really bad idea.
19:03
that's a really bad idea.
19:03
that's a really bad idea. >> Exactly.
19:05
>> Exactly.
19:05
>> Exactly. >> Exactly.
19:06
>> Exactly.
19:06
>> Exactly. >> And that's good feedback. That's good.
19:08
>> And that's good feedback. That's good.
19:08
>> And that's good feedback. That's good. >> It is good feedback. You can you can
19:10
>> It is good feedback. You can you can
19:10
>> It is good feedback. You can you can choose to to ignore it if you like.
19:12
choose to to ignore it if you like.
19:12
choose to to ignore it if you like. >> Exactly. You can still ignore it and do
19:14
>> Exactly. You can still ignore it and do
19:14
>> Exactly. You can still ignore it and do it anyway, but
19:15
it anyway, but
19:15
it anyway, but >> Right. But at least then you have it.
19:17
>> Right. But at least then you have it.
19:17
>> Right. But at least then you have it. All right. Anything else that you that
19:19
All right. Anything else that you that
19:19
All right. Anything else that you that comes to mind? You have to learn about
19:20
comes to mind? You have to learn about
19:20
comes to mind? You have to learn about the the the taxes and the admin stuff
19:22
the the the taxes and the admin stuff
19:22
the the the taxes and the admin stuff and then how to run a company and the
19:25
and then how to run a company and the
19:25
and then how to run a company and the rules and the regulations. That's
19:28
rules and the regulations. That's
19:28
rules and the regulations. That's >> maybe not the original reason why you
19:30
>> maybe not the original reason why you
19:30
>> maybe not the original reason why you started the the startup, right?
19:32
started the the startup, right?
19:32
started the the startup, right? >> No. No. But it is very important and
19:34
>> No. No. But it is very important and
19:34
>> No. No. But it is very important and >> very important.
19:36
>> very important.
19:36
>> very important. >> Yeah. But those are the things that you
19:37
>> Yeah. But those are the things that you
19:38
>> Yeah. But those are the things that you also have to think about when
19:40
also have to think about when
19:40
also have to think about when >> when you want to sell something.
19:41
>> when you want to sell something.
19:41
>> when you want to sell something. >> But I love the asking advice piece.
19:43
>> But I love the asking advice piece.
19:43
>> But I love the asking advice piece. That's really good. Um so anything else
19:46
That's really good. Um so anything else
19:46
That's really good. Um so anything else that you think of that people should do?
19:49
that you think of that people should do?
19:49
that you think of that people should do? You want to start up? What have you been
19:51
You want to start up? What have you been
19:51
You want to start up? What have you been doing uh in your startup that you were
19:54
doing uh in your startup that you were
19:54
doing uh in your startup that you were surprised like am I doing this? How is
19:56
surprised like am I doing this? How is
19:56
surprised like am I doing this? How is this possible?
19:58
this possible?
19:58
this possible? >> Well some somehow you become an expert
20:00
>> Well some somehow you become an expert
20:00
>> Well some somehow you become an expert or an expert you you yeah you have to
20:03
or an expert you you yeah you have to
20:03
or an expert you you yeah you have to know a lot of things. You have to you
20:05
know a lot of things. You have to you
20:05
know a lot of things. You have to you have to think about security. You have
20:06
have to think about security. You have
20:06
have to think about security. You have to think about how to
20:08
to think about how to
20:08
to think about how to >> um set up your database, build an API,
20:11
>> um set up your database, build an API,
20:11
>> um set up your database, build an API, build an app.
20:13
build an app.
20:13
build an app. These are normally in like a company
20:15
These are normally in like a company
20:15
These are normally in like a company jobs that are sep separated. So there's
20:18
jobs that are sep separated. So there's
20:18
jobs that are sep separated. So there's front end developers, back end
20:19
front end developers, back end
20:19
front end developers, back end developers, database engineer, there's
20:21
developers, database engineer, there's
20:21
developers, database engineer, there's an an architect. U
20:24
an an architect. U
20:24
an an architect. U >> yeah. So in are you like a onewoman show
20:28
>> yeah. So in are you like a onewoman show
20:28
>> yeah. So in are you like a onewoman show or what's
20:29
or what's
20:30
or what's >> Yeah.
20:30
>> Yeah.
20:30
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Very
20:31
>> Yeah. Very
20:31
>> Yeah. Very >> have to do everything. So that's um it's
20:34
>> have to do everything. So that's um it's
20:34
>> have to do everything. So that's um it's also very great way to learn a lot but
20:37
also very great way to learn a lot but
20:37
also very great way to learn a lot but it can also be very overwhelming
20:38
it can also be very overwhelming
20:38
it can also be very overwhelming >> experience. Yeah. Even if this app
20:40
>> experience. Yeah. Even if this app
20:40
>> experience. Yeah. Even if this app doesn't make you a billionaire, you have
20:42
doesn't make you a billionaire, you have
20:42
doesn't make you a billionaire, you have a lot of experience from it, right?
20:44
a lot of experience from it, right?
20:44
a lot of experience from it, right? >> I have learned
20:45
>> I have learned
20:45
>> I have learned >> the next one. The next one totally will
20:47
>> the next one. The next one totally will
20:47
>> the next one. The next one totally will make you a billionaire.
20:49
make you a billionaire.
20:49
make you a billionaire. >> I hope so.
20:51
>> I hope so.
20:51
>> I hope so. >> Maybe maybe the first one, but who
20:53
>> Maybe maybe the first one, but who
20:53
>> Maybe maybe the first one, but who knows? That's going to be a a unicorn if
20:55
knows? That's going to be a a unicorn if
20:55
knows? That's going to be a a unicorn if if that happens.
20:56
if that happens.
20:56
if that happens. >> Yeah,
20:58
>> Yeah,
20:58
>> Yeah, >> all right. Very good. It's been so great
21:01
>> all right. Very good. It's been so great
21:01
>> all right. Very good. It's been so great to have you on the cloud show, but as
21:03
to have you on the cloud show, but as
21:03
to have you on the cloud show, but as you know, these are quick episodes. We
21:05
you know, these are quick episodes. We
21:05
you know, these are quick episodes. We talk about one thing for about 20
21:06
talk about one thing for about 20
21:06
talk about one thing for about 20 minutes and that's it. So, I just want
21:09
minutes and that's it. So, I just want
21:09
minutes and that's it. So, I just want to say thank you so much for coming on
21:11
to say thank you so much for coming on
21:11
to say thank you so much for coming on and talking about tech and talking about
21:14
and talking about tech and talking about
21:14
and talking about tech and talking about uh startups today. I loved it.
21:16
uh startups today. I loved it.
21:16
uh startups today. I loved it. >> Thank you for having me on the show.
21:18
>> Thank you for having me on the show.
21:18
>> Thank you for having me on the show. >> Absolutely. It was my pleasure. And
21:20
>> Absolutely. It was my pleasure. And
21:20
>> Absolutely. It was my pleasure. And audience, we will see you next time on
21:23
audience, we will see you next time on
21:23
audience, we will see you next time on the cloud show.
21:25
the cloud show.
21:25
the cloud show. [Music]