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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Mahesh Chand - Ep: 73
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Aug 7, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Mahesh Chand for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on August 06, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show explores cloud leadership and addresses the key questions surrounding cloud projects. Indeed, many aspects of a company's success in the cloud are related to technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are crucial for maintaining a healthy cloud and for implementing a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKER Anjuli Jhakry is a passionate .NET Developer at 4DotNet and honored Microsoft MVP specializing in the Microsoft ecosystem. Based in Rotterdam, she thrives on exploring technologies such as .NET MAUI, Entra ID, Blazor, Azure, and ML.NET—by day, building solutions, and by night, diving deeper into new Microsoft innovations. ⚡Download Sharp Rewards Wallet to earn Rewards: (200 bonus on using this link) http://invite.sharpplatform.com/Virtu... 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
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0:01
Hello friends and all. Welcome back to
0:03
Hello friends and all. Welcome back to
0:03
Hello friends and all. Welcome back to another episode of the cloud show. Today
0:06
another episode of the cloud show. Today
0:06
another episode of the cloud show. Today we're going to have a reappearance of a
0:08
we're going to have a reappearance of a
0:08
we're going to have a reappearance of a good friend and we're going to talk
0:10
good friend and we're going to talk
0:10
good friend and we're going to talk about AI uh in coding and what that
0:14
about AI uh in coding and what that
0:14
about AI uh in coding and what that means for us. All of this vibe coding
0:16
means for us. All of this vibe coding
0:16
means for us. All of this vibe coding we've heard of. We're going to talk
0:17
we've heard of. We're going to talk
0:17
we've heard of. We're going to talk about what developers will do next. And
0:20
about what developers will do next. And
0:20
about what developers will do next. And the expert that we're going to talk to
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the expert that we're going to talk to
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the expert that we're going to talk to is none other than Mahashant.
0:26
[Music]
0:37
Hello, Mah.
0:38
Hello, Mah.
0:38
Hello, Mah. Hey, Magnus. How are you?
0:40
Hey, Magnus. How are you?
0:40
Hey, Magnus. How are you? I'm great. It's good to have you back on
0:42
I'm great. It's good to have you back on
0:42
I'm great. It's good to have you back on the show.
0:44
the show.
0:44
the show. Thank you for having me.
0:45
Thank you for having me.
0:45
Thank you for having me. Of course. Anytime. Anytime. So I know
0:48
Of course. Anytime. Anytime. So I know
0:48
Of course. Anytime. Anytime. So I know that you are um I mean most people know
0:50
that you are um I mean most people know
0:50
that you are um I mean most people know who you are, right? But let's first like
0:53
who you are, right? But let's first like
0:53
who you are, right? But let's first like level set you are you are the founder of
0:55
level set you are you are the founder of
0:55
level set you are you are the founder of C# Corner
0:57
C# Corner
0:57
C# Corner among other.
0:59
among other.
0:59
among other. Yeah, I'm founder of C# Corner. I'm a
1:01
Yeah, I'm founder of C# Corner. I'm a
1:01
Yeah, I'm founder of C# Corner. I'm a developer like yourself, you know,
1:03
developer like yourself, you know,
1:03
developer like yourself, you know, technical architect,
1:05
technical architect,
1:05
technical architect, programmer, whatever you call it. We
1:07
programmer, whatever you call it. We
1:07
programmer, whatever you call it. We build applications. That's what we do.
1:09
build applications. That's what we do.
1:09
build applications. That's what we do. Yeah, totally. And and uh you know,
1:11
Yeah, totally. And and uh you know,
1:11
Yeah, totally. And and uh you know, you're a businessman and and like a huge
1:14
you're a businessman and and like a huge
1:14
you're a businessman and and like a huge community proponent. I mean one of the
1:16
community proponent. I mean one of the
1:16
community proponent. I mean one of the one of the biggest to be honest.
1:18
one of the biggest to be honest.
1:18
one of the biggest to be honest. So that's cool.
1:19
So that's cool.
1:19
So that's cool. Yeah.
1:19
Yeah.
1:19
Yeah. And um
1:20
And um
1:20
And um in that in that space you you have a lot
1:23
in that in that space you you have a lot
1:23
in that in that space you you have a lot of contact with a lot of developers, a
1:25
of contact with a lot of developers, a
1:25
of contact with a lot of developers, a lot of coders, a lot of programmers.
1:27
lot of coders, a lot of programmers.
1:27
lot of coders, a lot of programmers. Call them what you want, call them what
1:29
Call them what you want, call them what
1:29
Call them what you want, call them what you like, right? And and now we're
1:32
you like, right? And and now we're
1:32
you like, right? And and now we're facing this uh death threat to our
1:35
facing this uh death threat to our
1:35
facing this uh death threat to our developer industry. I'm I'm over
1:37
developer industry. I'm I'm over
1:37
developer industry. I'm I'm over exaggerating this, but but really we are
1:40
exaggerating this, but but really we are
1:40
exaggerating this, but but really we are we're looking at AI generating code. Um
1:44
we're looking at AI generating code. Um
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we're looking at AI generating code. Um wondering honestly what does what does
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wondering honestly what does what does
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wondering honestly what does what does that mean for us as coders?
1:50
that mean for us as coders?
1:50
that mean for us as coders? Yeah. So since the launch of generative
1:53
Yeah. So since the launch of generative
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Yeah. So since the launch of generative AI and chat GPT and cursor AI and
1:56
AI and chat GPT and cursor AI and
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AI and chat GPT and cursor AI and there's so many tools out there I can
1:59
there's so many tools out there I can
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there's so many tools out there I can put in my name there probably like
2:01
put in my name there probably like
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put in my name there probably like hundreds of them already there. uh what
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hundreds of them already there. uh what
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hundreds of them already there. uh what these tools are you can call them vibe
2:06
these tools are you can call them vibe
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these tools are you can call them vibe coding tools or tools they use AI to
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coding tools or tools they use AI to
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coding tools or tools they use AI to write code especially but all of them
2:11
write code especially but all of them
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write code especially but all of them what they're doing is they are using
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what they're doing is they are using
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what they're doing is they are using GPT4 or some one of those LLMs behind
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GPT4 or some one of those LLMs behind
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GPT4 or some one of those LLMs behind the scene right it could be Google's or
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the scene right it could be Google's or
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the scene right it could be Google's or claw and and GPT so
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claw and and GPT so
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claw and and GPT so right now as we speak we can just ask
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right now as we speak we can just ask
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right now as we speak we can just ask GPT4 you know four and say hey write me
2:30
GPT4 you know four and say hey write me
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GPT4 you know four and say hey write me a code that would be a complete
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a code that would be a complete
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a code that would be a complete application
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application
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application doing this this this and these code
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doing this this this and these code
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doing this this this and these code tools can write your code and you can
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tools can write your code and you can
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tools can write your code and you can review and all that.
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review and all that.
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review and all that. So one thing yeah we have to keep in
2:43
So one thing yeah we have to keep in
2:44
So one thing yeah we have to keep in mind is that as developers you know I
2:46
mind is that as developers you know I
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mind is that as developers you know I mean I'll stop here unless you you let's
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mean I'll stop here unless you you let's
2:48
mean I'll stop here unless you you let's go through your questions first
2:50
go through your questions first
2:50
go through your questions first but
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but
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but I don't want to interrupt your flow. Uh
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I don't want to interrupt your flow. Uh
2:54
I don't want to interrupt your flow. Uh the only thing that I I thought about
2:55
the only thing that I I thought about
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the only thing that I I thought about when you were talking you can you can go
2:57
when you were talking you can you can go
2:57
when you were talking you can you can go on that's fine. uh is is that that I
2:59
on that's fine. uh is is that that I
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on that's fine. uh is is that that I mean code is just text and and language,
3:03
mean code is just text and and language,
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mean code is just text and and language, right? And that's exactly what the LLMs
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right? And that's exactly what the LLMs
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right? And that's exactly what the LLMs are good at, right? They're good at
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are good at, right? They're good at
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are good at, right? They're good at predicting language um and and figuring
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predicting language um and and figuring
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predicting language um and and figuring out what to say next, right? That's what
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out what to say next, right? That's what
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out what to say next, right? That's what they do.
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they do.
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they do. Yes.
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Yes.
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Yes. Um and and in a sense, I can see how how
3:16
Um and and in a sense, I can see how how
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Um and and in a sense, I can see how how and we already know and we already see
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and we already know and we already see
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and we already know and we already see how that is a a a reasonable supportive
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how that is a a a reasonable supportive
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how that is a a a reasonable supportive tool to have with you when you're
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tool to have with you when you're
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tool to have with you when you're programming, right?
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programming, right?
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programming, right? Yeah. Yeah. So as you said exactly it's
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Yeah. Yeah. So as you said exactly it's
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Yeah. Yeah. So as you said exactly it's a generative AI right generative AI uses
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a generative AI right generative AI uses
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a generative AI right generative AI uses lls and and it just generates code and
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lls and and it just generates code and
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lls and and it just generates code and code is generating really is from the
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code is generating really is from the
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code is generating really is from the old code it got copied from it learned
3:39
old code it got copied from it learned
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old code it got copied from it learned from GitHub Corner LinkedIn Microsoft
3:43
from GitHub Corner LinkedIn Microsoft
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from GitHub Corner LinkedIn Microsoft documents all those books and
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documents all those books and
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documents all those books and everything. So when these models were
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everything. So when these models were
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everything. So when these models were built, they took all the coding they
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built, they took all the coding they
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built, they took all the coding they found everywhere in the world and they
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found everywhere in the world and they
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found everywhere in the world and they now have a massive amount of code and
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now have a massive amount of code and
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now have a massive amount of code and when you say oh build me this they go
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when you say oh build me this they go
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when you say oh build me this they go through their you know behind the scene
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through their you know behind the scene
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through their you know behind the scene and look at the code and samples and
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and look at the code and samples and
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and look at the code and samples and applications and gives you spits out you
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applications and gives you spits out you
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applications and gives you spits out you another code
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another code
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another code which is it can be the complete project
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which is it can be the complete project
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which is it can be the complete project right you can literally build a ap.net
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right you can literally build a ap.net
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right you can literally build a ap.net net core project including solution
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net core project including solution
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net core project including solution file, project file, test cases, all that
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file, project file, test cases, all that
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file, project file, test cases, all that as a whole package and open in your ID.
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as a whole package and open in your ID.
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as a whole package and open in your ID. Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. And then just run it and build. Yeah.
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And then just run it and build. Yeah.
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And then just run it and build. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It understands how to put
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Yeah. Yeah. It understands how to put
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Yeah. Yeah. It understands how to put together a whole a whole thing because
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together a whole a whole thing because
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together a whole a whole thing because it's seen many many many things out
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it's seen many many many things out
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it's seen many many many things out there. A challenge in there though is
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there. A challenge in there though is
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there. A challenge in there though is that when it finds something that looks
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that when it finds something that looks
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that when it finds something that looks really reasonable, it could be outdated.
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really reasonable, it could be outdated.
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really reasonable, it could be outdated. There could be a bug in it, but uh it
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There could be a bug in it, but uh it
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There could be a bug in it, but uh it needs to understand what how the robots
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needs to understand what how the robots
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needs to understand what how the robots mean otherwise it's going to just
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mean otherwise it's going to just
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mean otherwise it's going to just assimilate. So you've taken all that
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assimilate. So you've taken all that
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assimilate. So you've taken all that code.
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code.
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code. Yeah, I'm I'm having hearing you. I
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Yeah, I'm I'm having hearing you. I
4:51
Yeah, I'm I'm having hearing you. I think your microphone is giving a little
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think your microphone is giving a little
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think your microphone is giving a little trouble.
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trouble.
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trouble. I hear a little weird.
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I hear a little weird.
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I hear a little weird. Deep, you having issue too?
4:59
Deep, you having issue too?
4:59
Deep, you having issue too? Yeah, right now.
5:01
Yeah, right now.
5:01
Yeah, right now. Yeah, same for me.
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Yeah, same for me.
5:04
Yeah, same for me. Yes, it looks like there's some wired
5:07
Yes, it looks like there's some wired
5:07
Yes, it looks like there's some wired loose or something.
5:10
Um but yeah let me continue. Yes. So it
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Um but yeah let me continue. Yes. So it
5:12
Um but yeah let me continue. Yes. So it has lot AI could have a lot of problems,
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has lot AI could have a lot of problems,
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has lot AI could have a lot of problems, right? It can it can generate code
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right? It can it can generate code
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right? It can it can generate code that's obsolete. It can generate code
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that's obsolete. It can generate code
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that's obsolete. It can generate code that is based on old examples.
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that is based on old examples.
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that is based on old examples. It can also get hallucinated, right? It
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It can also get hallucinated, right? It
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It can also get hallucinated, right? It can make up its own mind. It can
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can make up its own mind. It can
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can make up its own mind. It can generate code. So while AI is great but
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generate code. So while AI is great but
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generate code. So while AI is great but you got to think and use AI as an
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you got to think and use AI as an
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you got to think and use AI as an assistant coder who's sitting next to
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assistant coder who's sitting next to
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assistant coder who's sitting next to you. Better you explain it using prompts
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you. Better you explain it using prompts
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you. Better you explain it using prompts and prompt engineering better results
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and prompt engineering better results
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and prompt engineering better results you are going to get. So as a as a
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you are going to get. So as a as a
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you are going to get. So as a as a developer and decision maker you have to
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developer and decision maker you have to
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developer and decision maker you have to make sure the code is written is
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make sure the code is written is
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make sure the code is written is accurate up to date using the latest
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accurate up to date using the latest
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accurate up to date using the latest trend technology doesn't have any
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trend technology doesn't have any
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trend technology doesn't have any security issues no performance issues
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security issues no performance issues
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security issues no performance issues you that's your job it's not AI's job it
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you that's your job it's not AI's job it
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you that's your job it's not AI's job it can just generative AI can only generate
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can just generative AI can only generate
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can just generative AI can only generate content and give it to you and say oh
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content and give it to you and say oh
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content and give it to you and say oh you told me this I did this here it is
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you told me this I did this here it is
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you told me this I did this here it is so yes you're right you have to be
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so yes you're right you have to be
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so yes you're right you have to be careful with that as Wow.
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Okay, Magnus, we you're frozen.
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All right, looks like we're waiting on
6:25
All right, looks like we're waiting on
6:26
All right, looks like we're waiting on Magnus. He's coming back. Uh yeah, I can
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Magnus. He's coming back. Uh yeah, I can
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Magnus. He's coming back. Uh yeah, I can talk more. So AI is here, right? So
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talk more. So AI is here, right? So
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talk more. So AI is here, right? So if you are a developer who writes code
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if you are a developer who writes code
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if you are a developer who writes code or coder or you know any anybody who's
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or coder or you know any anybody who's
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or coder or you know any anybody who's building applications you may ask like
6:39
building applications you may ask like
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building applications you may ask like what should we what is the direction I
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what should we what is the direction I
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what should we what is the direction I should go if AI is going to write the
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should go if AI is going to write the
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should go if AI is going to write the code in coming time. Well good thing is
6:46
code in coming time. Well good thing is
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code in coming time. Well good thing is AI is going to write the code but it
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AI is going to write the code but it
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AI is going to write the code but it will still need somebody to overview the
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will still need somebody to overview the
6:51
will still need somebody to overview the code somebody be to review the code but
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code somebody be to review the code but
6:54
code somebody be to review the code but there's also going to be newer things to
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there's also going to be newer things to
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there's also going to be newer things to learn. So think about think about you
6:59
learn. So think about think about you
6:59
learn. So think about think about you know cloud before cloud you know we used
7:02
know cloud before cloud you know we used
7:02
know cloud before cloud you know we used to have network engineers we used to
7:04
to have network engineers we used to
7:04
to have network engineers we used to have hosting guys you devops guys who
7:06
have hosting guys you devops guys who
7:06
have hosting guys you devops guys who will manually do a lot of work but now
7:08
will manually do a lot of work but now
7:08
will manually do a lot of work but now everything is managed by cloud all you
7:10
everything is managed by cloud all you
7:10
everything is managed by cloud all you have to do is you go and you know do the
7:13
have to do is you go and you know do the
7:14
have to do is you go and you know do the settings plug and play deploy create
7:16
settings plug and play deploy create
7:16
settings plug and play deploy create workflows and your your cloud
7:18
workflows and your your cloud
7:18
workflows and your your cloud application is running same thing in
7:21
application is running same thing in
7:21
application is running same thing in coding oh looks like Magnus is back
7:24
coding oh looks like Magnus is back
7:24
coding oh looks like Magnus is back um same thing with with you're
7:31
Yeah, I am.
7:33
Yeah, I am.
7:33
Yeah, I am. Yeah. Now it's better.
7:34
Yeah. Now it's better.
7:34
Yeah. Now it's better. You got this. You don't need me.
7:36
You got this. You don't need me.
7:36
You got this. You don't need me. Yeah. All good. All good. Yeah. I was
7:38
Yeah. All good. All good. Yeah. I was
7:38
Yeah. All good. All good. Yeah. I was just explaining that you know how back
7:40
just explaining that you know how back
7:40
just explaining that you know how back in the day
7:41
in the day
7:41
in the day Yeah. back in the day we used to do
7:43
Yeah. back in the day we used to do
7:44
Yeah. back in the day we used to do manual deployment, manual hosting. There
7:47
manual deployment, manual hosting. There
7:47
manual deployment, manual hosting. There used to be network engineers managing
7:48
used to be network engineers managing
7:48
used to be network engineers managing servers. Totally. Now everything done by
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servers. Totally. Now everything done by
7:50
servers. Totally. Now everything done by cloud.
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cloud.
7:51
cloud. Same thing is going to happen are
7:53
Same thing is going to happen are
7:53
Same thing is going to happen are happening with the code. Now you we used
7:55
happening with the code. Now you we used
7:55
happening with the code. Now you we used to write a lot of code will be written
7:57
to write a lot of code will be written
7:57
to write a lot of code will be written bunch of code I would say 80% will be
8:00
bunch of code I would say 80% will be
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bunch of code I would say 80% will be written by AI and then you do the 20%
8:03
written by AI and then you do the 20%
8:03
written by AI and then you do the 20% you do the business logic you look at
8:05
you do the business logic you look at
8:05
you do the business logic you look at the security performance but good part
8:08
the security performance but good part
8:08
the security performance but good part is because of all this AI you know AI
8:13
is because of all this AI you know AI
8:13
is because of all this AI you know AI revolution there's lot more new
8:15
revolution there's lot more new
8:15
revolution there's lot more new technologies coming out there you need
8:17
technologies coming out there you need
8:17
technologies coming out there you need to learn for example LLM machine
8:19
to learn for example LLM machine
8:19
to learn for example LLM machine learning there's a lot more coming out
8:22
learning there's a lot more coming out
8:22
learning there's a lot more coming out that means if you really want to do you
8:24
that means if you really want to do you
8:24
that means if you really want to do you just learn those newer technologies?
8:26
just learn those newer technologies?
8:26
just learn those newer technologies? So it's not like coding is not going
8:27
So it's not like coding is not going
8:28
So it's not like coding is not going away but the traditional
8:29
away but the traditional
8:30
away but the traditional that's right
8:30
that's right
8:30
that's right boilerplate code or the code that's
8:32
boilerplate code or the code that's
8:32
boilerplate code or the code that's generic or repetitive or duplicate that
8:36
generic or repetitive or duplicate that
8:36
generic or repetitive or duplicate that will be probably going away. You don't
8:37
will be probably going away. You don't
8:37
will be probably going away. You don't have to rewrite the things which is
8:39
have to rewrite the things which is
8:39
have to rewrite the things which is already written by somebody before.
8:44
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. Um,
8:47
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. Um,
8:47
Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. Um, one there are many ways of trying to
8:49
one there are many ways of trying to
8:50
one there are many ways of trying to explain this, but one way that I found
8:51
explain this, but one way that I found
8:52
explain this, but one way that I found to to try to to frame this is to say
8:54
to to try to to frame this is to say
8:54
to to try to to frame this is to say that if a person has has it, you know,
8:58
that if a person has has it, you know,
8:58
that if a person has has it, you know, used to have it as their job to to
9:01
used to have it as their job to to
9:01
used to have it as their job to to mainly type programming code. That's
9:03
mainly type programming code. That's
9:03
mainly type programming code. That's what they do. They're typing code
9:05
what they do. They're typing code
9:05
what they do. They're typing code characters. Um, then they might uh
9:08
characters. Um, then they might uh
9:08
characters. Um, then they might uh definitely feel a challenge and a change
9:11
definitely feel a challenge and a change
9:11
definitely feel a challenge and a change in what they're doing, right? uh but I
9:14
in what they're doing, right? uh but I
9:14
in what they're doing, right? uh but I mean higher level logic uh and and
9:16
mean higher level logic uh and and
9:16
mean higher level logic uh and and architects and people understanding how
9:18
architects and people understanding how
9:18
architects and people understanding how things work and people using AI tools in
9:22
things work and people using AI tools in
9:22
things work and people using AI tools in their work are definitely going to to
9:24
their work are definitely going to to
9:24
their work are definitely going to to still have plenty of opportunities.
9:26
still have plenty of opportunities.
9:26
still have plenty of opportunities. These are just new tools, right?
9:29
These are just new tools, right?
9:29
These are just new tools, right? Yes. Correct. And I think one biggest
9:31
Yes. Correct. And I think one biggest
9:31
Yes. Correct. And I think one biggest skill you will need is the creativity
9:34
skill you will need is the creativity
9:34
skill you will need is the creativity and understanding of the business, the
9:36
and understanding of the business, the
9:36
and understanding of the business, the business problems and what is the best
9:39
business problems and what is the best
9:39
business problems and what is the best solution because AI doesn't know that.
9:41
solution because AI doesn't know that.
9:42
solution because AI doesn't know that. AI AI will AI just remember it's you
9:44
AI AI will AI just remember it's you
9:44
AI AI will AI just remember it's you know it's your assistant only so you
9:46
know it's your assistant only so you
9:46
know it's your assistant only so you have to explain what exactly you want
9:48
have to explain what exactly you want
9:48
have to explain what exactly you want correct
9:50
correct
9:50
correct so so maybe maybe the um the job of the
9:54
so so maybe maybe the um the job of the
9:54
so so maybe maybe the um the job of the lowly programmer I don't want to use it
9:57
lowly programmer I don't want to use it
9:57
lowly programmer I don't want to use it in a derogatory sense but I mean a very
9:59
in a derogatory sense but I mean a very
9:59
in a derogatory sense but I mean a very simplistic uh life of being just the
10:02
simplistic uh life of being just the
10:02
simplistic uh life of being just the coder that will definitely change or is
10:05
coder that will definitely change or is
10:05
coder that will definitely change or is most certainly changing
10:08
most certainly changing
10:08
most certainly changing it's it's almost going yeah it's going
10:10
it's it's almost going yeah it's going
10:10
it's it's almost going yeah it's going away so one The challenge will be for
10:12
away so one The challenge will be for
10:12
away so one The challenge will be for young young developers who start as
10:14
young young developers who start as
10:14
young young developers who start as interns, right? They they always start
10:16
interns, right? They they always start
10:16
interns, right? They they always start with basic coding and basic
10:18
with basic coding and basic
10:18
with basic coding and basic understanding.
10:19
understanding.
10:19
understanding. They are going to have hard time getting
10:21
They are going to have hard time getting
10:21
They are going to have hard time getting the job because they don't understand
10:24
the job because they don't understand
10:24
the job because they don't understand business yet. So the things going to
10:27
business yet. So the things going to
10:27
business yet. So the things going to change even how we teach things in
10:30
change even how we teach things in
10:30
change even how we teach things in colleges because in college we use
10:32
colleges because in college we use
10:32
colleges because in college we use college used to teach a lot of
10:33
college used to teach a lot of
10:33
college used to teach a lot of programming and basics which is fine to
10:35
programming and basics which is fine to
10:35
programming and basics which is fine to understand but the the amount you write
10:39
understand but the the amount you write
10:39
understand but the the amount you write code in practice will reduce to less in
10:42
code in practice will reduce to less in
10:42
code in practice will reduce to less in coming. Yes, it will. Yes, it will. And
10:45
coming. Yes, it will. Yes, it will. And
10:45
coming. Yes, it will. Yes, it will. And this is interesting. This is an
10:46
this is interesting. This is an
10:46
this is interesting. This is an interesting angle that I've had also um
10:48
interesting angle that I've had also um
10:48
interesting angle that I've had also um thought about in in other other jobs as
10:51
thought about in in other other jobs as
10:51
thought about in in other other jobs as well, similar to programming where you
10:53
well, similar to programming where you
10:53
well, similar to programming where you start at like an entry-level coder.
10:55
start at like an entry-level coder.
10:55
start at like an entry-level coder. That's your first job and then you get,
10:57
That's your first job and then you get,
10:57
That's your first job and then you get, you know, a little better and more
10:58
you know, a little better and more
10:58
you know, a little better and more experienced and then you become a team
11:00
experienced and then you become a team
11:00
experienced and then you become a team leader or whatever or an architect and
11:02
leader or whatever or an architect and
11:02
leader or whatever or an architect and you kind of get up the the the food
11:04
you kind of get up the the the food
11:04
you kind of get up the the the food chain or get promoted away from doing I
11:07
chain or get promoted away from doing I
11:07
chain or get promoted away from doing I mean only doing coding, right? I mean
11:09
mean only doing coding, right? I mean
11:09
mean only doing coding, right? I mean doing coding, you know, as a singular
11:12
doing coding, you know, as a singular
11:12
doing coding, you know, as a singular task, right? Um and and and similar to
11:15
task, right? Um and and and similar to
11:15
task, right? Um and and and similar to that, if I if I just may um
11:19
that, if I if I just may um
11:19
that, if I if I just may um the same with with the junior um um
11:22
the same with with the junior um um
11:22
the same with with the junior um um administr administrative duties in in in
11:26
administr administrative duties in in in
11:26
administr administrative duties in in in law firms, right? You start by by rating
11:29
law firms, right? You start by by rating
11:29
law firms, right? You start by by rating writing papers and things. You're very
11:31
writing papers and things. You're very
11:31
writing papers and things. You're very low on the chain and you start down
11:34
low on the chain and you start down
11:34
low on the chain and you start down there, right? doing hard work, grunt
11:37
there, right? doing hard work, grunt
11:37
there, right? doing hard work, grunt work for some time until you get, you
11:41
work for some time until you get, you
11:41
work for some time until you get, you know, enough good to be promoted up to
11:43
know, enough good to be promoted up to
11:43
know, enough good to be promoted up to be like a a law clerk or what's the next
11:46
be like a a law clerk or what's the next
11:46
be like a a law clerk or what's the next level, right? And it's the same thing
11:47
level, right? And it's the same thing
11:47
level, right? And it's the same thing here. If there isn't an entry level
11:50
here. If there isn't an entry level
11:50
here. If there isn't an entry level anymore, we have to actually change our
11:53
anymore, we have to actually change our
11:53
anymore, we have to actually change our entire approach. We will enter at what
11:56
entire approach. We will enter at what
11:56
entire approach. We will enter at what was usually required several years of
11:59
was usually required several years of
11:59
was usually required several years of experience. Right.
12:01
experience. Right.
12:01
experience. Right. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So, and it it's
12:05
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So, and it it's
12:05
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So, and it it's not just you said it right. It's not
12:06
not just you said it right. It's not
12:06
not just you said it right. It's not just coding. Even look at the drivers.
12:08
just coding. Even look at the drivers.
12:08
just coding. Even look at the drivers. There's auto auto driver cars coming.
12:11
There's auto auto driver cars coming.
12:11
There's auto auto driver cars coming. So, you don't need basic level driver
12:13
So, you don't need basic level driver
12:13
So, you don't need basic level driver anymore.
12:15
anymore.
12:15
anymore. You don't need anymore.
12:17
You don't need anymore.
12:17
You don't need anymore. I I can totally see, you know, um um
12:19
I I can totally see, you know, um um
12:20
I I can totally see, you know, um um trucks driving on the on the on the
12:22
trucks driving on the on the on the
12:22
trucks driving on the on the on the freeway uh with with with goods um
12:25
freeway uh with with with goods um
12:25
freeway uh with with with goods um driven by lots of persons today, right?
12:28
driven by lots of persons today, right?
12:28
driven by lots of persons today, right? Um
12:28
Um
12:28
Um yeah,
12:29
yeah,
12:29
yeah, for sure we can we can make uh automatic
12:32
for sure we can we can make uh automatic
12:32
for sure we can we can make uh automatic automated cars, automated trucks uh much
12:35
automated cars, automated trucks uh much
12:35
automated cars, automated trucks uh much more safe than having a human driving
12:37
more safe than having a human driving
12:37
more safe than having a human driving it. And and that's going to change that
12:40
it. And and that's going to change that
12:40
it. And and that's going to change that whole industry. All of those jobs will
12:43
whole industry. All of those jobs will
12:43
whole industry. All of those jobs will be no more, right?
12:45
be no more, right?
12:45
be no more, right? Will be no more. Yeah.
12:46
Will be no more. Yeah.
12:46
Will be no more. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's a huge change, but
12:49
Yeah. And that that's a huge change, but
12:49
Yeah. And that that's a huge change, but I mean there's not it's not like there's
12:50
I mean there's not it's not like there's
12:50
I mean there's not it's not like there's not going to be other jobs for these
12:52
not going to be other jobs for these
12:52
not going to be other jobs for these persons, right? But some people will
12:53
persons, right? But some people will
12:53
persons, right? But some people will need to change. And change is is hard.
12:57
need to change. And change is is hard.
12:57
need to change. And change is is hard. It can be it can be challenging. It can
12:59
It can be it can be challenging. It can
12:59
It can be it can be challenging. It can feel feel bad to to have to change,
13:03
feel feel bad to to have to change,
13:03
feel feel bad to to have to change, right?
13:04
right?
13:04
right? Yeah. I I can see one thing where
13:06
Yeah. I I can see one thing where
13:06
Yeah. I I can see one thing where there's going to be a lot of jobs in
13:07
there's going to be a lot of jobs in
13:07
there's going to be a lot of jobs in coming time. So if anybody is a
13:09
coming time. So if anybody is a
13:10
coming time. So if anybody is a developer who's afraid that oh they're
13:11
developer who's afraid that oh they're
13:11
developer who's afraid that oh they're going to lose their job, what can they
13:13
going to lose their job, what can they
13:13
going to lose their job, what can they do? So everybody's almost building AI
13:17
do? So everybody's almost building AI
13:17
do? So everybody's almost building AI agents, right? Any like if you look at
13:20
agents, right? Any like if you look at
13:20
agents, right? Any like if you look at Quickbooks, they have their AI agent. If
13:22
Quickbooks, they have their AI agent. If
13:22
Quickbooks, they have their AI agent. If you look at you know Twilio they will
13:23
you look at you know Twilio they will
13:23
you look at you know Twilio they will have their AI agent. Every industry
13:26
have their AI agent. Every industry
13:26
have their AI agent. Every industry every business probably got likely to
13:27
every business probably got likely to
13:28
every business probably got likely to have their AI agents. So our
13:31
have their AI agents. So our
13:31
have their AI agents. So our applications when you are going as an
13:33
applications when you are going as an
13:33
applications when you are going as an architect you're building a big large
13:35
architect you're building a big large
13:35
architect you're building a big large applications where it will need bunch of
13:37
applications where it will need bunch of
13:37
applications where it will need bunch of these agents behind the scene
13:40
these agents behind the scene
13:40
these agents behind the scene there's going to be need of the AI
13:42
there's going to be need of the AI
13:42
there's going to be need of the AI agents experts who can build them
13:44
agents experts who can build them
13:44
agents experts who can build them connect them secure them make sure
13:46
connect them secure them make sure
13:46
connect them secure them make sure they're up and running all the time. So
13:49
they're up and running all the time. So
13:49
they're up and running all the time. So the need of AI agents experts is going
13:53
the need of AI agents experts is going
13:53
the need of AI agents experts is going to grow a lot in coming time because
13:56
to grow a lot in coming time because
13:56
to grow a lot in coming time because true what happens when any new industry
13:58
true what happens when any new industry
13:58
true what happens when any new industry comes with new solutions and products
14:01
comes with new solutions and products
14:01
comes with new solutions and products come they also create a lot of problems
14:03
come they also create a lot of problems
14:03
come they also create a lot of problems in the beginning.
14:04
in the beginning.
14:04
in the beginning. Yeah
14:05
Yeah
14:05
Yeah that means you need lot more experts in
14:07
that means you need lot more experts in
14:07
that means you need lot more experts in there. So if you have you want to learn
14:10
there. So if you have you want to learn
14:10
there. So if you have you want to learn something as a developer coder
14:12
something as a developer coder
14:12
something as a developer coder programmer learning how AI agents work
14:15
programmer learning how AI agents work
14:15
programmer learning how AI agents work how to build AI agents how to
14:17
how to build AI agents how to
14:17
how to build AI agents how to communicate how to then there's
14:19
communicate how to then there's
14:19
communicate how to then there's protocols like you know A2A and you know
14:22
protocols like you know A2A and you know
14:22
protocols like you know A2A and you know bunch of these protocols are already
14:24
bunch of these protocols are already
14:24
bunch of these protocols are already there there's a um NAN there's work
14:27
there there's a um NAN there's work
14:27
there there's a um NAN there's work workflow platforms you know Azure has
14:29
workflow platforms you know Azure has
14:29
workflow platforms you know Azure has its own workflow platforms learning
14:31
its own workflow platforms learning
14:31
its own workflow platforms learning those and using them debugging them
14:34
those and using them debugging them
14:34
those and using them debugging them that's where the lot of jobs will be
14:36
that's where the lot of jobs will be
14:36
that's where the lot of jobs will be created
14:37
created
14:37
created absolely Absolutely. No, I agree with
14:39
absolely Absolutely. No, I agree with
14:39
absolely Absolutely. No, I agree with that. And and and we're seeing this
14:41
that. And and and we're seeing this
14:41
that. And and and we're seeing this change, you know, um now I mean we're
14:44
change, you know, um now I mean we're
14:44
change, you know, um now I mean we're not at a place where yet where we can
14:47
not at a place where yet where we can
14:47
not at a place where yet where we can truly just just vibe code, you know. I'm
14:50
truly just just vibe code, you know. I'm
14:50
truly just just vibe code, you know. I'm not sure I love the term vibe coding,
14:52
not sure I love the term vibe coding,
14:52
not sure I love the term vibe coding, but it seems to be sticking. Um it's
14:55
but it seems to be sticking. Um it's
14:55
but it seems to be sticking. Um it's we're not there yet. Um it's it's a
14:58
we're not there yet. Um it's it's a
14:58
we're not there yet. Um it's it's a process.
14:59
process.
14:59
process. Yes. Correct. It always takes time,
15:01
Yes. Correct. It always takes time,
15:01
Yes. Correct. It always takes time, right? And it always there's newer
15:02
right? And it always there's newer
15:02
right? And it always there's newer opportunities. So key is to stay ahead
15:06
opportunities. So key is to stay ahead
15:06
opportunities. So key is to stay ahead and the grace is continuously learning
15:08
and the grace is continuously learning
15:08
and the grace is continuously learning what's out there, continuously evolving.
15:10
what's out there, continuously evolving.
15:10
what's out there, continuously evolving. Don't just sit and say I'm a code monkey
15:12
Don't just sit and say I'm a code monkey
15:12
Don't just sit and say I'm a code monkey and typing the code. That job will be
15:15
and typing the code. That job will be
15:15
and typing the code. That job will be gone.
15:16
gone.
15:16
gone. Yeah, definitely. And and we, you know,
15:19
Yeah, definitely. And and we, you know,
15:19
Yeah, definitely. And and we, you know, both yourself and myself, I'm I'm I do a
15:22
both yourself and myself, I'm I'm I do a
15:22
both yourself and myself, I'm I'm I do a lot of of community stuff with global
15:24
lot of of community stuff with global
15:24
lot of of community stuff with global Azure and various things, right? and I'm
15:26
Azure and various things, right? and I'm
15:26
Azure and various things, right? and I'm I'm an avid speaker at conferences and
15:28
I'm an avid speaker at conferences and
15:28
I'm an avid speaker at conferences and and you run C um as a huge uh community.
15:33
and you run C um as a huge uh community.
15:33
and you run C um as a huge uh community. Um we we love community and we love
15:36
Um we we love community and we love
15:36
Um we we love community and we love community learning. So I think it's an
15:39
community learning. So I think it's an
15:40
community learning. So I think it's an opportunity to say that the way to stay
15:42
opportunity to say that the way to stay
15:42
opportunity to say that the way to stay ahead in this everchanging game, it's
15:45
ahead in this everchanging game, it's
15:45
ahead in this everchanging game, it's always going to keep changing. AI is not
15:47
always going to keep changing. AI is not
15:47
always going to keep changing. AI is not the the the the the last change, the
15:50
the the the the the last change, the
15:50
the the the the the last change, the last big industry change for our
15:52
last big industry change for our
15:52
last big industry change for our industry. It's definitely not the last
15:54
industry. It's definitely not the last
15:54
industry. It's definitely not the last one, right? There has been others before
15:55
one, right? There has been others before
15:56
one, right? There has been others before and it's going to be others after. But
15:58
and it's going to be others after. But
15:58
and it's going to be others after. But to stay in this game of continuously
16:02
to stay in this game of continuously
16:02
to stay in this game of continuously challenging yourself and learning is
16:04
challenging yourself and learning is
16:04
challenging yourself and learning is something that you do best in the
16:06
something that you do best in the
16:06
something that you do best in the community with other people, you know,
16:09
community with other people, you know,
16:09
community with other people, you know, other like-minded people. Share and
16:11
other like-minded people. Share and
16:11
other like-minded people. Share and learn, right?
16:12
learn, right?
16:12
learn, right? Yeah.
16:12
Yeah.
16:12
Yeah. Yeah. If you can go and learn yourself,
16:14
Yeah. If you can go and learn yourself,
16:14
Yeah. If you can go and learn yourself, that's great too. But the way you learn
16:16
that's great too. But the way you learn
16:16
that's great too. But the way you learn better is not only just learn and also
16:18
better is not only just learn and also
16:18
better is not only just learn and also share because once you share, you are
16:21
share because once you share, you are
16:21
share because once you share, you are building you turning into a thought
16:23
building you turning into a thought
16:23
building you turning into a thought leader. Right? When you are a thought
16:24
leader. Right? When you are a thought
16:24
leader. Right? When you are a thought leader, people are watching you, people
16:26
leader, people are watching you, people
16:26
leader, people are watching you, people listening to you, they're reading you.
16:29
listening to you, they're reading you.
16:29
listening to you, they're reading you. Now when business come, they'll come to
16:30
Now when business come, they'll come to
16:30
Now when business come, they'll come to you. Business will come to you. I'm sure
16:32
you. Business will come to you. I'm sure
16:32
you. Business will come to you. I'm sure when you go for any interview, everybody
16:35
when you go for any interview, everybody
16:35
when you go for any interview, everybody knows Magnus is already this thought
16:37
knows Magnus is already this thought
16:37
knows Magnus is already this thought leader in just get a project. That's
16:40
leader in just get a project. That's
16:40
leader in just get a project. That's that's how we get it, right?
16:42
that's how we get it, right?
16:42
that's how we get it, right? Sure. But not everybody wants to and can
16:44
Sure. But not everybody wants to and can
16:44
Sure. But not everybody wants to and can be that. But still still what everyone
16:46
be that. But still still what everyone
16:46
be that. But still still what everyone can do is join in you know learn either
16:49
can do is join in you know learn either
16:50
can do is join in you know learn either for yourself by yourself or learn
16:52
for yourself by yourself or learn
16:52
for yourself by yourself or learn together with other people in the
16:53
together with other people in the
16:53
together with other people in the community. It doesn't ne necessarily
16:55
community. It doesn't ne necessarily
16:55
community. It doesn't ne necessarily mean that you must become this this
16:56
mean that you must become this this
16:56
mean that you must become this this whatever thought leader is
16:59
whatever thought leader is
16:59
whatever thought leader is but at least you share the um share the
17:02
but at least you share the um share the
17:02
but at least you share the um share the burden and the load of of always keeping
17:04
burden and the load of of always keeping
17:04
burden and the load of of always keeping it fresh and trying to move forward.
17:06
it fresh and trying to move forward.
17:06
it fresh and trying to move forward. Right.
17:06
Right.
17:06
Right. Yes. Correct. Yep. Y
17:08
Yes. Correct. Yep. Y
17:08
Yes. Correct. Yep. Y yeah. Brilliant. Absolutely. Yeah. So,
17:11
yeah. Brilliant. Absolutely. Yeah. So,
17:11
yeah. Brilliant. Absolutely. Yeah. So, um, honestly, I think this is a great
17:14
um, honestly, I think this is a great
17:14
um, honestly, I think this is a great segment as it is. I'm sorry for the
17:16
segment as it is. I'm sorry for the
17:16
segment as it is. I'm sorry for the technical hiccup. That's weird, but I
17:18
technical hiccup. That's weird, but I
17:18
technical hiccup. That's weird, but I you you're you're an expert. You kept it
17:20
you you're you're an expert. You kept it
17:20
you you're you're an expert. You kept it going.
17:21
going.
17:21
going. We'll see how this video looks. Um,
17:24
We'll see how this video looks. Um,
17:24
We'll see how this video looks. Um, thank you, Mahash. Really, thank you for
17:26
thank you, Mahash. Really, thank you for
17:26
thank you, Mahash. Really, thank you for being on the show and talking about
17:28
being on the show and talking about
17:28
being on the show and talking about this. I think it's an a very important
17:29
this. I think it's an a very important
17:30
this. I think it's an a very important topic to to be discussing at this time.
17:32
topic to to be discussing at this time.
17:32
topic to to be discussing at this time. I appreciate having you on the show.
17:34
I appreciate having you on the show.
17:34
I appreciate having you on the show. Thank you, Magnus.
17:36
Thank you, Magnus.
17:36
Thank you, Magnus. Yeah. All right. And uh audience, we
17:38
Yeah. All right. And uh audience, we
17:38
Yeah. All right. And uh audience, we will see you next time hopefully with
17:39
will see you next time hopefully with
17:39
will see you next time hopefully with better technical conditions on the cloud
17:42
better technical conditions on the cloud
17:42
better technical conditions on the cloud show.
17:44
show.
17:44
show. [Music]