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Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! This episode goes over our 2025 highlights, reflecting on the moments, conversations, and insights that shaped this year. From meaningful discussions on mental health and relationships to practical tools for growth and resilience, we’re taking time to pause, look back, and honor what we’ve learned together along the way.
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:06
Hi everyone, I'm Kelly O'Horo and this
0:09
is Adaptable Behavior Explained. Hi
0:12
everybody. Thank you so much for tuning
0:14
in today. I'm Kelly O'Horo and I'm your
0:16
host on Adaptable Behavior Explained.
0:19
And today's episode is gonna take a
0:21
little bit of a twist because as those
0:23
of you who know and watch the show, I am
0:26
a trauma therapist and EMDR specialist
0:29
and have been for nearing 15 years now.
0:32
And I think that a lot of times people
0:35
don't recognize that therapists are just
0:38
people too. And we come with our own
0:41
histories, our own lenses, our own human
0:44
experience. And I think that most people
0:46
don't understand that that grieving is a
0:48
part of life. So you or someone you know
0:51
probably has struggled with burnout. I
0:54
know that I definitely have. And I think
0:56
that burnout becomes even more common
0:59
when we're dealing with other life
1:01
stressors than perhaps just our jobs.
1:03
When we're presented with family issues
1:06
or a health crisis or, you know,
1:09
something going on in the lives of
1:11
somebody that we love, it compounds on
1:14
our capacity. And so when we have life
1:18
experiences that compound our stress, we
1:21
end up really facing the idea of burnout
1:24
more often. secure attachment tend to
1:27
have beliefs that are really healthy and
1:29
strong and don't shape or don't shift so
1:32
much in the presence of stimulus that
1:34
could challenge this. So one a few
1:37
different beliefs that we would
1:39
establish if we're securely attached are
1:41
things like I'm worthy. I'm worthy of
1:43
love. I can trust others can be trusted.
1:46
It's safe to express my needs, my wants,
1:49
my desires. And someone with secure
1:52
attachment doesn't have a lot of issue
1:54
with expressing those things. And they
1:56
feel as if they're going to be met with
1:58
somebody who will respond in a healthy
2:00
way to them. And if they don't, it's not
2:03
personal. So someone with secure
2:05
attachment will feel a lot more
2:07
comfortable with closeness and
2:09
connection and being intimate. But as
2:11
well as being comfortable with
2:13
independence. I can be by myself. I can
2:16
opt out of the event because I need some
2:18
time to just recharge my batteries and I
2:21
don't feel FOMO. I don't have to
2:23
necessarily be part of everything.
2:26
Someone with secure attachment also has
2:28
an ability to regulate their emotions.
2:31
And so when they're in distress, they
2:33
can they can take a beat and they can
2:36
recognize what it is that's going on
2:37
inside of them. And they can they can
2:39
allow emotions to come and go and be
2:41
more fluid. and then they can do things
2:44
uh more readily to cope with the change
2:47
in emotions in order to regulate those
2:49
things. And so some traits of somebody
2:51
who's anxiously attached might look like
2:54
kind of tethering their self-worth to
2:57
the relationship status, you know,
2:59
having a lot of separation anxiety. Uh
3:01
even brief distance can bring um up
3:04
anxiety or stress and be triggering for
3:07
someone. uh they might catastrophize or
3:10
jump to conclusions, that worst case
3:12
scenario uh after a missed call or a
3:15
text. They're kind of dress rehearsing
3:17
tragedy that whatever happened means
3:19
more than it does to the other person.
3:22
Someone with anxious attachment
3:24
struggles typically to set and maintain
3:26
healthy boundaries. um they're more
3:28
concerned about making sure people are
3:30
okay, that they're okay themselves, and
3:33
they might stay in relationships that
3:35
aren't meeting their needs because their
3:37
fear of being alone is greater than
3:39
being healthier. And so this style of
3:42
attachment often leads to negative
3:45
cycles in relationship. So we'll pursue
3:48
or withdraw. So for example, one partner
3:51
or person will chase for the connection
3:53
and then the other retreats. And in Sue
3:56
Johnson's uh work, she talks about the
3:59
um dance of attachment and and everybody
4:01
has a dance depending on our attachment
4:03
style and what our propensities are
4:05
really are dependent on what we grew up
4:08
with and what we're reenacting. There's
4:10
the other pattern of criticize and
4:12
defend. So this is where one person
4:15
attacks and then the other becomes
4:16
defensive. It's about protection. So
4:19
when emotional closeness feels unsafe or
4:21
unfamiliar, distance becomes a coping
4:24
strategy. It's how I regulate my my
4:26
internal world is by disconnecting from
4:29
that potential connection. And traits
4:31
that you will see in someone with
4:33
avoidant attachment will look like a a
4:36
really high value on independence and
4:39
self-sufficiency or autonomy. They
4:40
aren't going to lean on you and they're
4:42
not going to ask you for help. And these
4:43
are the people that say, "I got it."
4:45
There's a lot of discomfort with
4:46
emotional intimacy. They'll push away,
4:49
maybe avoid eye contact, potentially
4:52
difficult time expressing feelings,
4:54
certainly with asking for support or
4:56
help. There's often times a tendency to
4:58
shut down or withdraw during conflict.
5:00
So, they can't remain engaged to work
5:03
through to the other side as easily. And
5:05
they're often preferential over logic,
5:08
over emotion in communication. So, these
5:10
are your gatekeepers, scorekeepers,
5:13
factcheckers. They get really locked on
5:16
to black and white thinking because the
5:18
logic really weighs out for them over
5:20
the emotional communication rather than
5:22
what's underneath the message. They're
5:24
listening for the specifics. And if you
5:26
go wrong with the specifics in someone
5:28
with an avoidant attachment style will
5:30
forget it. It's it's really tricky to
5:31
get back in because they'll get locked
5:33
on. How does disorganized attachment
5:35
shape relationships? Well, it creates a
5:38
really distressful pushand pull dynamic
5:40
in a relationship. whereas the person
5:42
desperately seeks connection and then
5:44
will suddenly withdraw or sabotage it.
5:46
So there's key traits that come up with
5:48
someone with disorganized attachment.
5:50
There's a deep rooted fear of
5:51
abandonment and potentially fear of
5:54
engulfment both at once. And so it's
5:57
very hard to navigate a nervous system
5:59
if this is happening to them. They're uh
6:02
difficulty regulating their own emotions
6:04
and often experience very intense highs
6:06
and very intense lows. Hypervigilance is
6:09
one of the traits that will show up. So,
6:11
they're constantly scanning for danger
6:13
uh or rejection. And they're they're
6:16
looking for things that will prove their
6:18
feelings uh to justify their emotional
6:20
experience. And so, um there's a lot of
6:23
confusion about boundaries. They can
6:25
either be really rigid or too porous. uh
6:28
and their self-protective behaviors like
6:30
shutting down, lashing out or oftentimes
6:33
dissociation is a character trait that
6:35
happens with disorganized attachment. So
6:38
some things that are commonly seen in
6:40
relationship patterns can look like you
6:42
know chaos, unpredictability, emotional
6:45
volatility. They can feel like emotional
6:48
roller coasters these relationships. The
6:50
other thing that happens is like an
6:52
idealization. So, this is someone who
6:54
puts someone so high on a pedestal that
6:57
there's really no chance uh for them to
6:59
remain there and then it can be met with
7:01
like a catastrophic devaluation of that
7:04
person or relationship. And so, if
7:06
there's like a lack of emotional
7:08
clarity, for example, you know, let's
7:10
say someone says, "I blocked my mom
7:12
after a fight and then months later I
7:14
still feel angry and confused." And I'm
7:16
thinking about like the mom who doesn't
7:19
understand what happened because that
7:20
pattern was always what happened is we
7:22
always thought and then we would talk
7:24
and make up later and then all of a
7:26
sudden this one happens and my daughter
7:28
won't call me back and you know she
7:30
still feels angry, she still feels
7:32
confused. I don't know that as the mom
7:34
and I think about all this unfinished
7:36
business where someone circling back and
7:39
saying you know I I want to I want to
7:40
talk to you about that fight. Before my
7:43
habit would have been to just sweep it
7:44
under the rug, but what I want to do now
7:47
is make sure that I stopped doing that.
7:49
And when you said, you know, whatever it
7:51
is that you said, I felt really hurt and
7:53
angry and I and I felt really shamed.
7:56
And I want you to work on not talking to
7:58
me like that. And if at a minimum, if
8:00
that happens, I'm going to disconnect
8:02
and I'm going to say, I'm going to talk
8:04
to you later and we're going to stop and
8:06
I'm going to set that boundary. And then
8:08
you'll need to circle back and take some
8:10
accountability for it. That's an example
8:12
of how to do this in a more emotionally
8:15
clear way. But a lot of times people
8:16
don't know what they're feeling. So if
8:18
you've ever thought about like why is it
8:20
so hard? You're not alone. We all are
8:23
hardwired for connection. We crave it in
8:25
fact. And we're wired for it. But the
8:28
older that we get, the harder it seems
8:30
to find our people. So today we're going
8:33
to talk about why that is and how to
8:35
start building friendships that feel way
8:37
more lifegiving so that you are
8:39
cultivating connection that serves you.
8:42
So let's talk about why it feels so hard
8:44
to make adult friends. When you think
8:47
about it, we when we were kids,
8:49
friendships would happen almost by
8:50
accident, right? We're on the
8:52
playground, we're in class, we have
8:54
sports. But as adults, life gets way
8:56
more crowded. We have our careers. We
8:58
have our families. We have our
9:00
responsibilities. And we just run out of
9:02
minutes because all of these things
9:04
compete for our time, for our energy,
9:07
and for our capacity. It's not about
9:09
blaming or fixing each other. It's about
9:11
understanding that it's the cycle that
9:13
gets us in our it's the emotional dance
9:16
that we end up falling into. And that's
9:18
related to our unfinished attachment
9:20
injuries and our relational injuries
9:23
when we were younger. and we bring those
9:26
injuries into our primary relationship
9:28
and it and we then reenact what we have
9:31
not,
9:32
you know, we have not handled. So, thank
9:35
you for that explanation. I I try to get
9:37
couples that I work with to recognize
9:39
it's not you that's the problem. It's
9:41
not you that's the problem. It's your
9:43
it's your negative inter interaction
9:44
cycle that's the problem. We need to be
9:47
faster at addressing
9:49
and recognizing that we're in our dance
9:51
and we need to slow it way down
9:53
so that we can recognize what's
9:55
happening in us and why am I reacting
9:57
the way that I'm reacting and the
9:58
slowing down process is really what
10:00
therapy is always about is slowing down
10:02
and understanding what's now so that we
10:04
can respond as opposed to react.
10:06
For sure. And it's the perspective
10:07
taking. I really teach couples how to
10:10
each own their own perspective of their
10:12
experience
10:13
and not have the other partner feel like
10:15
it's either blaming or putting it away.
10:17
It's like no no no we're just sharing
10:19
experience. And if you can't come into
10:21
the space being open-minded and curious
10:24
and that requires risk. It's vulnerable
10:26
to allow our walls to come down and to
10:29
allow people to be with us in our
10:31
emotional experience. And so we're going
10:33
to talk about what intimacy really is
10:35
and how we build it and why it can feel
10:38
so scary and vulnerable. Uh and we're
10:41
going to talk about emotional safety,
10:43
curiosity, compromise, and how to create
10:46
space for our true connection so that we
10:48
can be in relationship that's authentic
10:50
and real. And this is not just romantic
10:52
relationships. This is friendships uh
10:55
relationships with ourselves. You know,
10:56
how much of our true self do we show
10:58
ourself? And and this is in friendships.
11:01
This is in family relationships, in
11:02
sibling relationships. This is even with
11:04
our children and and with our parents.
11:07
And so, let's break it down. Intimacy,
11:09
what is it really? Um, we're going to
11:12
redefine this. At its core, intimacy is
11:15
about being known. It's the experience
11:18
of being seen, heard, and not just seen
11:21
and heard, but accepted for who we truly
11:23
are. And it's not just about closeness.
11:26
It's about the emotional safety or the
11:28
perspective of emotional safety that we
11:30
have in relationship. Burnout doesn't
11:32
just make you feel tired. It makes it
11:34
harder for you to think clearly, harder
11:37
for you to regulate your emotions and
11:39
adapt to change. So, we become less
11:41
flexible. So, if you felt foggy or
11:44
irritable or like you're just going
11:46
through the motions, know this. It's not
11:48
your head. It's your nervous system that
11:51
is yelling at you. It is a dashboard
11:53
saying something's got to give. And so
11:55
now we're going to talk about what do
11:57
you do with this and why rest alone
11:59
isn't enough. A lot of people think I
12:01
just need a break and I'm going to be
12:02
okay. And although rest is essential,
12:06
it's not the full picture. Many people
12:08
take breaks from work or
12:10
responsibilities only to find themselves
12:12
returning to their, you know, their jobs
12:14
or their responsibilities feeling
12:16
totally depleted, not feeling better,
12:19
and not knowing why. Well, there's
12:22
reasons for this. Burnout often involves
12:24
a loss of identity. We become so wrapped
12:27
up in our roles, employee, caregiver,
12:30
achiever, mom, wife, that we forget who
12:34
we are outside of them, we lose who we
12:37
are. We don't have our hobbies. We don't
12:39
do things that are enjoyable. We don't
12:42
have things that exercise creativity.
12:45
And recovery requires more requires more
12:47
than just sleep. It requires some
12:50
identity reconstruction. So, we really
12:52
underestimate how much we all have to
12:55
deal with grief. And it's not just about
12:58
the the loss of somebody. Uh it can be
13:00
loss of identity, uh grief over our
13:03
feelings of safety if we've been harmed.
13:05
And so often in my work, I I witness
13:07
people needing to grieve even their
13:09
childhoods for not getting to be a
13:12
child, not getting to have time that is
13:14
without stress or overwhelm or strife.
13:17
And they were never able to have a
13:19
normal healthy childhood. So we have to
13:21
grieve that we didn't get that stage of
13:23
development and that's hard. And the
13:26
thing is is grief is the price of love.
13:29
We can't be in love with self or others
13:32
without the risk of grief. And it's a
13:34
reflection of what mattered. It tells us
13:36
that something was important to us and
13:38
we don't have it anymore. And this is
13:40
really where grief and guilt and
13:42
resentment can creep in because you're
13:44
feel you feel like maybe you're
13:46
betraying them or you know you're losing
13:48
the parent that you knew because that
13:50
relationship has changed so drastically
13:53
and you might even resent the burden
13:55
because you're overwhelmed in your own
13:57
priorities and your own stressors in
13:58
your own life. And then when you
14:00
prioritize your own life then you feel
14:02
guilty that you want your own life back.
14:05
And so it's a really complicated factor.
14:07
And of course, you don't want them gone,
14:09
right? None of us ever want them gone.
14:11
And so, it's really tricky. It's a it's
14:13
a hard time. And so, you've got to
14:15
figure out how to navigate the grief and
14:17
the resentment and the potential guilt.
14:19
And caretaking really brings up a storm
14:21
of emotions. And so, you know, a natural
14:24
emotion that comes when our parent
14:26
declines is the grief, right? We're
14:28
losing the parent that we had. We're
14:30
losing the relationship that we once had
14:33
and and the help and support that
14:35
perhaps they offered. that changes too
14:37
because the roles, you know, flip and
14:39
you're dealing with caretaking and
14:42
ultimately the life that you're putting
14:43
on hold because of the pause in your own
14:46
life that you need to step in and help
14:47
them. And so sometimes we end up also
14:50
dealing with resentment maybe towards
14:52
other siblings who aren't helping and
14:54
it's putting all the burden on your
14:56
shoulders or toward the parent for
14:58
needing so much or you know what a
15:00
friend of ours says and actually I did a
15:03
show on this on like the avoidable
15:04
crisis, right? So let's say a parent had
15:07
made choices along their life about
15:10
maybe how they ate and so they had
15:12
mismanaged diabetes and which caused
15:14
further health implications. And so you
15:16
have to really clean up the resentment
15:18
around you know sort of they did this to
15:20
themselves because the long-term effect
15:22
of their previous choices created
15:26
problems. Behavior is the language of
15:28
the nervous system. So, our nervous
15:30
system is communicating whatever it is
15:33
that we're feeling and ultimately then
15:35
how we act. And so, when kids act out,
15:37
they're saying, "I'm overwhelmed." And
15:39
without knowing how to ask for help,
15:41
that's really what we're saying is, "I
15:43
need help and this is how I'm
15:44
communicating that." Dr. Dan Seagull
15:47
explains in the whole brain child that
15:50
young children's upstairs brain, that's
15:52
the part that manages logic and
15:55
self-control, it's it's still under
15:56
construction. Keep in mind when we're
15:58
born only 25% of our brain is developed
16:01
and so it's small so that it can fit
16:03
through the our head is small so it can
16:05
fit through the birth canal. And in
16:06
those very early years our brain is
16:08
literally still being built. And so when
16:11
big feelings hit that downstairs brain
16:14
which is like emotion and survival uh
16:16
takes over. And that's why reasoning in
16:19
the middle of a tantrum or when our
16:21
child or uh children are overwhelmed or
16:23
in distress is ineffective. And so we
16:26
really as the as the adult need to
16:28
recognize we we don't have an audience
16:30
at all when someone is in distress. So
16:33
for example, if if the toddler throws a
16:35
toy across the room, it's not defiance.
16:37
It's really just system dysregulation.
16:40
Their nervous system is totally flooded.
16:42
And really, they need your calm to find
16:45
theirs. They need you to help them
16:47
co-regulate. And as a teacher, children,
16:50
if you're approachable, will then come
16:52
talk to you about things that are
16:54
important or hard for them. And so, I
16:56
think I naturally offered, you know,
16:59
wisdom, guidance, non-judgmental support
17:01
as part of my personality. And I think
17:03
those things are maybe hallmarks that
17:05
set the stage for naturally being a
17:08
therapist. And and I'm an enagram, too.
17:10
So, I'm a helper by nature. And I think
17:12
that's part of it. But then I had a
17:14
bunch of kids uh that needed a lot of
17:17
help and we had them in counseling and I
17:19
learned it's an important job and I also
17:21
learned I wanted to try to do it better
17:23
than we had experienced. And so I would
17:26
say those are all maybe culminating
17:28
factors that brought me to where I'm at.
17:30
And then bringing the teaching history
17:32
together with being a counselor for
17:35
almost 15 years now. I think it's just a
17:37
natural transition to want to teach and
17:39
educate through you know this podcast
17:41
and blogging and things like that. So I
17:44
don't want people to become overreliant
17:46
with AI and and forget that the human
17:48
relationship is necessary for our
17:52
growth.
17:53
Yeah.
17:53
So I would say that's both.
17:55
Yeah,
17:56
I'm excited. And also it's a little
17:58
scary.
17:59
Yeah, it is scary.
18:00
And there's still a lot of bad
18:01
information. You still have to, you
18:03
know, I mean I love that Microsoft has
18:04
named their AI agent co-pilot. It's not
18:07
the pilot. You can't trust it. you need
18:09
to like have discernment and and figure
18:11
out what's the right data and maybe even
18:14
cross reference things and look at the
18:15
research that it comes up with to make
18:17
sure it's it's uh you know accurate
18:19
information because just like anything
18:21
on the internet there's lots of
18:23
inaccurate information and people just
18:25
believe what they read and they don't
18:26
know how to discern accuracy and that's
18:28
terrifying
18:29
but that's terrifying in every genre not
18:31
just in the mental health profession.
18:33
Yeah. So could could you share with us a
18:36
little bit about what led you to start
18:39
your business, right? What led you to
18:42
which business?
18:43
Your the the counseling business, right?
18:45
Which led to this, which led to that,
18:47
which
18:47
Well, gosh, you and I were together back
18:48
then. And for those of you who don't
18:50
know, Julie was my supervisor when I
18:53
first became a therapist. And I can
18:55
remember when we, you know, uh, the
18:58
culmination of the of the therapeutic
19:01
supervisor supervise relationship. I
19:04
said, you know, I have this idea. Have
19:06
you signed all my paperwork because we
19:07
don't want to have like any dual
19:08
relationship issues here. And um once
19:10
you're done with that, I want to talk to
19:11
you about something. And that's where I
19:13
was like, I really want to create a
19:16
place where therapists can go and they
19:19
can feel loved and supported and seen
19:22
and they can have a beautiful space to
19:24
help their clients. They don't have to
19:26
worry about being business people
19:27
because that's too much when you're a
19:29
therapist. And a lot of times people
19:30
don't want anything to do with that side
19:32
of things. And if this hasn't been put
19:34
on you and you're not being manipulated
19:35
or coerced with that, then this is an
19:38
opportunity for you to stand up and
19:39
assert your balanced place in your
19:41
relationship. Another toxic behavior
19:44
that's emotionally abusive is chronic
19:46
jealousy or accusations of infidelity
19:49
when the person has not done anything to
19:51
have earned that. This can create um a
19:54
lot of insecurity. Uh it makes someone
19:57
feel resentful if they're being accused
19:59
of of something that they're not doing.
20:02
And accusing a partner of cheating or
20:04
being unfaithful can create a lot of
20:06
toxicity in the relationship and a lot
20:08
of mistrust and insecurity. And so
20:11
typically I've experienced where someone
20:13
is constantly anxious of or accusing a
20:17
partner of infidelity or jealousy um as
20:19
a kind of an undertone. They have been
20:22
poorly treated in the past by someone
20:24
before their partner most of the time.
20:26
Uh and that has brought forward this
20:29
fear that it's going to happen again.
20:30
And so they're kind of constantly
20:32
waiting for someone to be untrustworthy.
20:34
And it's really painful to have that uh
20:37
accusation coming at you all the time.
20:39
It's also really painful to be someone
20:42
who feels that way. So this is a good
20:44
opportunity to get some therapy related
20:46
to that occurrence. So some examples
20:48
that can, you know, help you think about
20:50
a healing experience is if you're, for
20:53
example, as a therapist, right? If I
20:55
show up consistently and I'm empathetic
20:59
and I'm really well attuned for the
21:00
client, they begin to feel safe and
21:04
express their vulnerabilities and their
21:06
needs. And I always tell my clients,
21:09
borrow it from me until you have enough
21:11
courage and bravery to practice with
21:13
people out there in the real world
21:15
because you're building pathways that
21:18
say, hey, I think I can do this. I can
21:20
learn this. And so a therapist is part
21:22
of a great way to build some connection
21:25
and attachment and new neuropathways
21:28
related to trust. But uh uh you can also
21:31
have a partner who responds to emotional
21:33
needs with warmth or consistency which
21:37
slowly reshapes a person's internal
21:40
model of connection. They start to build
21:42
a new truth compared to the truth they
21:45
had or established from their childhood.
21:48
A person can learn to start setting
21:50
boundaries and honor their own needs.
21:52
They can build self-rust with practice
21:55
and ultimately it turns into their own
21:57
emotional resilience. Earned secure
22:00
attachment is a testament to the
22:02
neuroplasticity in our brains and how
22:04
critical it is to be in relationship and
22:07
to have relational healing. We can
22:10
rewire our attachment systems with
22:12
connection and it it's never really too
22:14
late. And so it's really special that we
22:18
have the opportunity to dig in and
22:20
change the way that we relate with
22:21
others. Can you talk about the metaphor
22:23
of the iceberg?
22:24
Yeah. You know, when you think about an
22:26
iceberg, what you see at the top or
22:28
above the water is a lot of things that
22:31
are anger based.
22:33
You know, and maybe that looks like some
22:35
criticism, some blame, um some
22:37
defensiveness, some stonewalling, all of
22:40
that. But underneath the iceberg is
22:42
where all that vulnerable stuff is. And
22:44
that usually, honestly, in my work with
22:46
couples, it's fear,
22:47
you know, or sadness. Maybe it's shame.
22:50
Maybe it's a lot of these I am
22:52
statements. I'm not enough. I'll never
22:53
be enough. I can't get it right. You
22:55
know, all of that. That's the stuff
22:57
we're not fully accessing. And that's
22:59
what I help couples really see,
23:01
right?
23:01
You know, and by going there, there
23:03
tends to be this softness that happens
23:04
because it's like, oh, I didn't know
23:07
when I did that. It makes them feel like
23:08
they're not enough. That's
23:10
heartbreaking,
23:10
right? I don't want my person to feel
23:12
that way about this, especially by what
23:14
I'm I'm doing.
23:15
Yeah. Exactly. You know, so we switch
23:17
the script a bit on them and they're
23:19
able to better recognize like, oh wow,
23:21
it's so much more than just this blaming
23:23
comment.
23:24
Sure.
23:24
You know, and then it makes them not
23:26
want to do that anymore.
23:27
Right. Right.
23:28
It motivates change in the behavior. For
23:30
sure. When we when we feel seen,
23:31
understood, and heard, that's
23:33
that's all we're really looking for in
23:34
relationships. In all relationships, not
23:36
just couples, but in all of our
23:38
relationships, we just want to be seen.
23:40
Yeah. A lot of people share little memes
23:42
with one another nowadays where they'll
23:44
see something on social media and
23:45
they'll share it directly with someone
23:46
else. Those are moments of saying, "I
23:48
I'm thinking of you. I see you and I'm
23:50
thinking of you." A quiet moment of
23:52
presence is also really helpful. Often
23:54
times, even if there's not much going
23:56
on, but just being in the same place
23:58
with one another. So, if you want more
24:00
intimacy in your life, you have to start
24:02
by showing up with curiosity and
24:04
compassion. You have to start by asking,
24:06
"What helps me feel safe?" and then how
24:08
can I offer that to somebody else? And
24:11
you want to remember that you don't have
24:12
to be perfect to be loved. You just have
24:14
to be willing to be real. And you have
24:17
to be willing to work in connection and
24:19
compromise because everybody's needs for
24:22
safety and trust are different. And so
24:25
we have to be willing to be open to
24:27
learning about what someone else might
24:29
need. I did this show specifically
24:32
because like I said, I hear so many
24:34
people talking about how disconnected
24:35
they feel. And it's a simple concept,
24:38
but it's not an easy behavior to get
24:40
practiced with with all of the
24:42
distractions that we have. And you know,
24:44
we've become human doings instead of
24:46
human beings. And we're not slowing down
24:49
enough to really be in present
24:50
connection often enough. Others use
24:53
distraction or need distraction. In
24:56
Atlas of the Heart, Bnee Brown talks
24:58
about how grief is really personal. And
25:01
when we try to compare or to rank our
25:03
grief, it only creates more
25:05
disconnection to yourself and to others.
25:08
So, we want to stop saying, you know, I
25:10
wouldn't have reacted that way or I
25:12
wouldn't do it this way. Instead,
25:14
approach someone with curiosity.
25:17
What do they need right now? What do you
25:18
need right now? Or how can I support
25:20
you? Or what does support look like? Um,
25:22
would it help to talk or just sit
25:24
together? I like the phrase with the
25:27
three ages, you know, do you want help?
25:29
Do you want a hug? Or do you just want
25:31
to be heard? And you can ask those
25:33
questions to let someone else determine
25:35
what it is that they do need in order to
25:37
be more supportive. Because grief is not
25:40
a problem to fix. It's a process to
25:42
witness and to be present for. And when
25:45
we can do that with somebody, we can
25:47
really develop connection and safety and
25:50
trust. And um often times when people
25:53
are going through something that is
25:55
painful, you know, such as a loss, it's
25:58
not the loss that becomes the worst part
26:00
of it for people with EMDR therapy.
26:03
Often times it's how they didn't have
26:04
support after the fact. And then when I
26:06
learned like, oh, that's not at all it.
26:08
And actually, you need them to come to
26:10
their own advice based on who they say
26:12
they want to be. and it's really got
26:13
absolutely nothing to do with your own
26:15
agenda. I was like, well then what will
26:18
I do? Like I want to just tell people
26:20
how they should behave and I was very,
26:22
you know, opinionated and bossy and
26:24
things like that. And and I have a dear
26:26
friend that once told me, she's like,
26:27
Kelly, no one has better intention than
26:29
you. She goes, but not everybody wants
26:31
to hear what you think about it. And I
26:32
was like, but it was good feedback
26:34
because I didn't know that about myself
26:35
and that that um was how I was
26:38
perceived. And so I would say like
26:40
what's what's motivating you for
26:41
whatever it is that you're doing and be
26:43
be clear about that and check in on it
26:45
and be accountable about having
26:47
motivation that's pure and not just
26:50
ladder chasing or hustling for your
26:51
worth because that's going to burn you
26:53
out.
26:53
Yeah.
26:53
And and I did hit a point at that point
26:55
when it was really motivated that way
26:57
like maybe if I do this next thing it
27:00
will be good enough. And um it never is
27:02
cuz that's coming from inside of you.
27:04
And no matter what you do or how
27:06
impressive you are, it it's doesn't fill
27:08
that, you know, that thing you're
27:10
looking to fill about worth and self
27:13
until you get good with that. Just know
27:15
I'm worthy whether I laid on the couch
27:17
today or whether I, you know, built a
27:20
pond. Both things are worthy because I
27:22
am worthy because I am.
27:23
That's it. You don't have to do anything
27:25
for that. So, I think that I would want
27:26
to really be interested for my young
27:29
self to constantly be checking in with
27:32
what are what's your motivation?
27:34
Okay.
27:34
Yeah.
27:35
We're going to flip the script on that
27:37
question. What do you think young Kelly
27:39
would would want to say to you where you
27:41
are?
27:42
Young Kelly would want to say to me
27:44
like without the wisdom I currently
27:46
have, have more fun. Don't forget to
27:48
play.
27:49
Yeah. you know, like you're more of a
27:51
badass if you have balance than if
27:54
you're just always killing it. And I
27:57
think I didn't know that really for a
27:59
very long time. I mean, I just I you
28:01
know, I I was not as integrated. And so
28:03
I thought if you play then you're
28:04
foolish or you're you know, not
28:06
responsible or people won't take you
28:08
seriously. And I think that when I was
28:11
younger, you know, there was different
28:13
seasons where I probably played more
28:16
than it seasons of my, you know,
28:18
adulthood. And now I'm trying to return
28:20
to more play, you know. I mean, we tried
28:23
as parents to like offer our kids
28:25
opportunities to be have fun and we
28:29
would take them camping and skiing and
28:30
trips and things like that. I mean, we
28:32
did a lot to try to like cultivate
28:34
experiences and play.
28:35
But with so many kids, it, you know,
28:38
there was a lot of managing as opposed
28:39
to just being and being silly. And I
28:42
think now, you know, now that we're
28:44
empty nesters, I'm trying to just like
28:47
give myself permission to play
28:50
[Music]
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