Up next in 10
Matt Frei is joined by Infantino's former boss, former UEFA chief Lars-Christer Olsson to react to the ongoing FIFA scandal.
FIFA have staged a colossal u-turn overnight, as the governing body abandoned its controversial plan to sell off a 20 per cent stake in its competitions, including the World Cup, to private investors.
Recent days have seen an open revolt by football governing bodies around the world, with fans, officials and heads of state - including Prime Minister Andy Burnham - weighing in on the decision.
Matt is also joined by former COO of the Confederation of African Football Abi Ijasanmi to react to the ongoing row.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
We need to talk about Gianni. Gianni Infantino, the enfant terrible of global football
0:06
So it's been a long week for him. It emerged at the beginning of the week that he had this plan
0:12
apparently a secret plan, that he snuck past his key advisers of trying to privatize 20
0:17
of the World Cup. And the lead investor on this plan was a guy called Joshua Kushner. He's the
0:23
brother of a guy called Jared Kushner, who is the son-in-law of President Trump. Now
0:28
we already know that Infantino and Trump have a very close relationship. Let's call it a friendship
0:34
We also know that Donald Trump intervened on that red card issue during the World Cup. And we know
0:39
that Gianni Infantino defended it and said that the due process was being respected, which is
0:46
something that many people disagreed with. He's had a relatively successful World Cup. I mean
0:50
there were, you know, the hydration breaks, which people were upset about. There was that issue with
0:54
the red card but at the end of the day you know in commercial terms it was a it was a huge success
0:59
you know record audiences some fantastic games you know notwithstanding a little bit of argy
1:05
bargy from the argies um it was it was good and then along comes this and you know the if you look
1:13
at the statements from especially from uefa the european football association not only did they
1:18
come up with a statement a few days ago where they said if you carry on with this plan we will boycott
1:23
the World Cup. There will not be a World Cup as we have got to know it over the last, you know
1:28
God knows how many decades. There'll be a World Cup without Europe, which won't be a World Cup
1:32
because we tend to win this tournament. But also now, after Gianni Infantino has ditched the plan
1:38
overnight, they've come up with a statement this morning that basically more or less called for
1:43
his head. They're saying enough of these secret plans. We need to make sure, I quote, that this
1:48
sort of thing doesn't happen again. So I think UEFA is mobilizing, you know, certainly its supporters
1:54
its votes to try and come up with an alternative candidate to Gianni Infantino, who was set for
2:01
re-election as the boss of FIFA in March. That is probably, probably no longer going to be the case
2:07
Let's bring in Abi Il-Jasanmi. She is the CEO of African Sports Investor and a former chief
2:12
operating officer of the Confederation of African Football. Abi, it's good to have you on the
2:17
programme. Good morning, Matt. How are you? I'm very well. And it's nice to see you again
2:23
You were on my podcast yesterday and now you're here. So I'm sorry to call upon your time
2:27
as much as I have done. But you're a very good voice on all this
2:31
So first of all, your reaction to Infantino ditching this plan? I think it's really interesting. We talked about this yesterday in the sense that
2:42
the votes, the numbers obviously didn't stack up. So there wasn't really much he could do other than
2:48
to obviously to come out and actually not admit defeat, but admit that, you know, he was a little
2:55
bit tone deaf to the room and therefore he's got to climb down a little bit. So good news for the
3:02
likes of UEFA, et cetera. I think their standard is fantastic. But I think for Africa, it's opened
3:08
a whole new conversation so while the proposals collapsed the underlying problem of investment
3:14
still remains because african football and you know a lot about this because you were the chief
3:18
operating officer of caf the african footballing association there just not enough money even though there not an awful lot of enthusiasm for the sport Yeah absolutely And for me I absolutely pro
3:32
but it's very much based on where that investment comes from. And this just wasn't the right plan for what's needed on the continent
3:42
OK, I mean, if someone else had done this, if someone else had come up with a plan who wasn't called Gianni Infantino
3:47
if they'd been more open about it, Do you think it would have been a good plan to privatise 20% of the World Cup
3:53
Not necessarily to privatise 20% of the World Cup. I think there are, as we've seen with UEFA and CONCACAF, their investment needs are different
4:03
They don't need to, you know, act on FIFA's money in that sense
4:08
They're self-sufficient, they're sustainable. But I think if somebody else comes up and there is a different plan for what happens with football in Africa
4:16
that conversation needs to continue. We've been having that conversation as African sports investor for a year and it's ongoing and there's a lot of interest in investment both in the women's league and in the men's
4:28
And that conversation needs to be professionalised and the governance on the continent needs to be professionalised so they become more investable
4:35
You mentioned the women's football as well. I mean, their qualifying games start in September
4:41
So if this boycott had continued from UEFA and indeed from the Asian and American associations
4:48
we would have been a right old mess, wouldn't we? Absolutely. And obviously, everybody relies on that global competition as a benchmark
4:55
for how good you are as a national team. So you want to play with the best in the world
5:00
And not being able to have that is obviously a challenge. I mean, we've got WAFCON going on at
5:05
the moment. So the best teams on the African continent, they need to play with their peers
5:10
across the world. And do you think Gianni Infantino should stay in his job
5:17
I think that the whole structure of football from a governance perspective, from a global
5:24
perspective, needs a rethink. Whether or not the current administration are capable of doing that
5:30
I have my doubts. Because UEFA is basically more or less, without calling it a spade a spade
5:37
they're calling for him to go, aren't they? Or for some other alternative candidate to come up
5:43
They are. And, you know, while UEFA are really mobilising themselves, and we've seen that over the last few days
5:49
to have a voice, which is fantastic. Conquer CAF have done the same. CAF and the Confederation of African Football
5:56
seem to have been a little bit quieter. And I think, you know, there are 54 member associations
6:02
Sorry. They saw Gianni Infantino as their champion, I guess. They're very, very loyal base
6:09
But I mean, I think we have to think, you know, not just holistically about this. I say there are 54 member associations who all have an individual vote
6:17
And yes, why they have backed Infantino for the next election. I believe that they gave their unanimous support in April
6:26
What needs to be looked at is how African football is going to develop
6:30
How are they going to become less reliant on FIFA funding for that to be their only source of income
6:37
And how they now start to commercialize and professionalize the products and the game in their country and in their continent
6:44
Let bring in Lars Krista Olsen He a former chief executive of UEFA former boss of Gianni Infantino Good morning Lars Good morning What do you make of the fact that the plan has been ditched but Infantino is still imposed
7:00
Yeah, well, I'm not so sure that the plan is ditched. In this form, it is ditched
7:07
because this is actually reflecting a conflict which is much earlier. It started with avalanche and went on with Blattor
7:15
and it's now taken to a new height by Infantino. So I think I agree with the former speaker
7:22
I heard a lot part of your conversation there. I think it's time to renovate the system in the international football system
7:31
And, for example, I would be happy if they could pick up an old proposal
7:38
to change the way the president for FIFA is elected and giving that to a circulating system
7:47
where the Confederation presidents could have one, let's say, session each. And that would eliminate these strange things
7:57
which have been happening over the last three presidencies. So, in other words, you have term limits on how long a FIFA president can stay
8:03
Yeah, they already have term limits, but I think there should be a way of moving the presidency
8:09
from one Confederation to another because that gives this specific confederation a special role
8:17
so they could concentrate on their problems and not always having everything based on a conflict between UEFA and FIFA
8:27
Is FIFA the way it's structured at the moment, not just the way it's run by Gianni Infantino
8:31
is it far too open to potential corruption? I think there is no real transparency in decision-making
8:40
that's always a risk for corruption I think corruption is one of the most
8:44
difficult challenges for football in general I have to say I mean the fact that Zeb Blatter who wasn't exactly
8:51
the cleanest of FIFA bosses to put it mildly, the fact that he came out
8:54
with a statement on Wednesday with outrage against the Infantino plan was itself quite extraordinary
9:00
wasn't it? Yeah, well in a way he has been voicing his opinions
9:06
before and I think there is also another thing i think he sees himself not taken care of in a proper way by
9:13
infantino so this is all part of a personal vendetta also you were infantino's boss when
9:20
you ran uefa um what was he like to you know to work over to you know to to to have on your team
9:28
he did a good job and then he was working extremely hard which i think he's doing now also
9:34
So I think he should just have somebody else giving him advice on what to decide
9:39
So where did he go wrong? Yeah, I don't know if you have a similar expression in English as we have in Swedish
9:48
the Napoleon complex. Yeah, well, I think we understand what you say about that
9:53
Yeah, exactly. That is the problem. Right. So, you know, the power got to his head
9:59
Yeah. Okay. So the UEFA statement today is really tough as an end
10:04
It is right I just reading from it it is right that in the coming days and weeks UEFA will work with its associations and in close cooperation with other confederations to reflect on how this happened and to devise a plan to make sure that it cannot occur again that review should be thorough and fundamental no option should be left off the table and uefa is
10:24
really flexing its muscles here not just for this particular investment plan but for the whole future
10:29
of fifa yes and i think it's absolutely okay to do that but i also think that the the all the
10:37
confederations have to go together and see how they can organize FIFA in a different way and that
10:44
has to be led by the confederations because the individual associations are not strong enough to
10:50
to do that. Are the votes there to get rid of Infantino in the election in March? I think that's
10:58
when it's going to happen and is it possible that he can work against that by perhaps throwing some
11:03
cash around as he promised to do with his investment plan i i think it's now become a matter
11:11
of a serious a serious matter in a high level so if the confederations get their acts together
11:18
i don't think that an individual president can circumvene that can he can infantino survive
11:27
the next election or is he is he gone basically yeah it depends on the on how successful the
11:33
confederations are but but the confederations have got together as a block haven't they
11:40
you way first voted as a block uh the the american association has voted as a block or
11:45
have presented themselves as a block do you think that is going to continue
11:49
i hope so i have seen i have seen uh situations under blatter for example there were
11:58
the confederations thought they had a block and then they didn't when it came to the elections so
12:03
things can still happen because people are paid off they get envelopes of cash why
12:08
yeah in the election 98 i think there were there were african members at meeting that they had
12:17
they got brown envelopes the day before the uh the elections so everything anything can happen
12:23
and that is why i think that there has to be a serious discussion among uh the associations of
12:30
course but also among the confederations to create a proper system for decision-making
12:36
what's Gianni Infantino done well uh for FIFA yeah he's been working hard as he always is
12:44
and I think he has he has been to a certain extent he has been uh
12:49
if he's successful when it comes to uh reaching a better financial situation for FIFA but I think
12:58
If we talk to the fans and the fact that it was too expensive to go to the World Cup in the US
13:07
they would not be so happy. And I think the fans are actually the basement for the commercial exploitation, of course, of football in general
13:15
It's quite interesting. There is this sort of democratic logic to all this, isn't it? If you upset the fans too much, you know, you reap the whirlwind
13:22
Yeah. So just finally, in one line, how big of a crisis has this been for FIFA in the last week
13:28
biggest? Yeah, I think I would say it is a devastating crisis, actually, because
13:37
it's undermining a lot of the foundation for FIFA's existence
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