0:00
OK, first to former Conservative MP, Minister, Broadcaster and Dog Lover, Edwina Currie, who joins me now
0:06
Good to have you on. It's been a while since I've seen you. Your take on this story. Good morning, Edwina
0:11
Good morning, morning, Nick. I think my take on this story is it's quite a long word that starts with a B and it ends with an X
0:19
And Dame Angela should be ashamed of herself as well, because, you know, it's not a question, oh, we keep to the rules
0:26
I mean, Taiwo is a government whip. One of her jobs is to keep other people under some kind of control
0:33
They are completely tone deaf, tone deaf. They have no idea what this sounds like
0:39
And you and I are old enough to remember the big expenses rows of 2009
0:44
when MP after MP of all parties, not just one party, MP after MP was found to be claiming for things that they shouldn't have
0:54
and that look really bad. Even David Cameron was claiming for his wisteria, for goodness sake
1:00
You know, it was completely wrong. And it was revealed by a former member of our armed forces
1:06
who was working part-time looking after the expenses claims and all the rest of it and was deeply shocked at what he found
1:14
Now, let's put this in a bit of context, if we may. Never mind what the rules are
1:19
You have to think about how does this feel, how does this sound
1:24
at a time when we're supposed to be, you know, really short of money. I mean this particular lady is earning 10 times as much as my state pension as a little single old lady living in the north of England And what has she taken and voted to take My winter fuel allowance just before the winter
1:42
And her cockapoo rent, not just the cockapoo, which probably costs her more than £900
1:48
but the rent is being paid for out of taxpayers' money. I mean, this is insane
1:54
It's not justifiable under any circumstances. And what she should have done immediately was
2:00
Number one, pay it back. Number two, apologise. And everybody in the Labour, in the government at the moment
2:06
all these ministers on this round should be saying, we're very sorry, this shouldn't have happened
2:10
We're checking if there's any other idiocies like this that are going to be permitted
2:14
and we're going to make sure all the money gets paid back. They're not saying that, are they
2:19
They're not. What they are saying, and your take on this lastly, Edwina, oh, it's not us, it's the rules
2:25
Yeah, but first of all, first of all, whatever the rules are
2:29
you have to apply a little bit of moral code to the rules
2:33
Secondly, if you're in politics, you're supposed to be able to observe what it looks like
2:38
when it gets aired on LBC and elsewhere. And you certainly shouldn't be defending
2:44
what is clearly stupid, selfish behaviour. I mean, I understand about the landlord
2:50
You know, having been a landlord, I understand entirely the landlord's going to charge a bit extra
2:54
if you want to have a pet. That's fine. What you shouldn't be doing
2:59
if you are the lessee, is charging that to the taxpayer. I'm sorry, that's a choice
3:05
It's not an essential element of you doing your job, looking after the public and being an MP No it not Always enjoy speaking with you Edwina Thank you Best wishes to you Edwina Currie former government minister conservative MP broadcaster and dog lover
3:18
Twelve after eight. Listening to that, Dr Adrian Hilton, research fellow at the University of Buckingham
3:22
Doctor, I think you have a more generous disposition towards this story. Good morning
3:27
Good morning. I have enormous respect for Edwina and you and your listeners
3:32
but MPs do a difficult job and they have variable family surroundings and their arrangements differ. Some have children, some don't. Some are single
3:46
and some are married. And IPSA allows for those variables. If MPs can claim to have their own
3:56
children with them in London and therefore require a two, three or four bedroom house
4:01
with a garden, then a dog is a part of a family. And you don't abandon a dog just because you
4:06
become an MP? This MP will be making at least £91,000 a year. It is her choice to have her dog
4:13
Surely she should fund the £900 out of her own money and not charge you, me and our listeners
4:19
Well, that's a view. But then the logic of that is that MPs should have a flat rate of expenses
4:24
for living so that these variables are all equalised effectively. You can't say to what..
4:32
I'm not saying she can't have a dog. I'm saying as regards this, she must fund the dog. That is
4:36
a decision she has taken she must fund the dog herself no it's a decision that her landlord has
4:42
taken and this is something that might need looking at uh to my mind landlords that charge effectively extra for having a dog when that should and properly should be included in any kind of deposit arrangement if the property is damaged
4:58
then you lose your deposit. You shouldn't be charged extra for having a dog or a cat
5:04
That's something that should be looked at. So you, lastly on this, you don't hold any
5:09
blame towards her at all. You think in a sense, that is the way our system is governed. You are
5:14
allowed a housing alliance and if you bring children and or a dog or whatever else it might be parrots or a cat we've got to live with it yes because i think parliament should make life easier
5:24
for mp they have to run two homes they might be on 80 or 90 000 but you're paying a mortgage
5:30
in portsmouth and also paying a rent in london it's quite expensive to have to do that so these
5:36
expenses are are there to allow them to do their job properly and having your family around you
5:42
frankly, if you're working until 10 or 11 at night, as they often are, then that's an important part of doing their job
5:49
Grateful for your time. Thank you for that. Dr. Adrian Hilton is a research fellow at the University of Buckingham
5:55
Just to give you a bit of background, MPs, as I told you, will earn a basic of £91,000
5:59
So as they climb up the greasy pole, they get more money. And they can claim annual accommodation budget of £21,000, sorry, £21,680 outside London and £31,800
6:11
They call it £32,000 inside London. So in addition to her £91,000, and she may get more, actually, as a whip
6:19
she gets all but £32,000, and we pay £900 for her dog
