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Angela Rayner has defended accepting a nearly £17,000 severance payment when she resigned from Government last year, after returning to Cabinet as Andy Burnham’s Housing Secretary. Ms Rayner received the payment after resigning in September 2025 from her role as Housing Secretary, Deputy Prime Minister, and Deputy Labour Party leader over a row about her tax affairs. HMRC has since cleared her of wrongdoing, and she returned to Government on Monday to oversee housing once again. She has now said that she will not repay the £16,876 ministerial severance payment. 00:00 | Nick Ferrari provides some context for the story. 01:02 | Political commentator Emma Woolf condemns her reasoning as 'classic word salad'. 04:39 | Caller James debates with Nick about what is 'allowed by law'. 07:13 | Texters are split over whether or not she should keep the money. 07:51 | Caller David says this is a 'moral issue'. 10:55 | Lorraine says this is 'bullying' of Angela Rayner. 11:39 | Caller Heidi thinks it's important to have 'higher standards' in politics. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lbc #nickferrari #angelarayner #labour #government #money #pay #ukpolitics #debate LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Angela Rayner dismissing calls to return her all but £17,000
0:03
for the purpose of absolute accuracy, £16,876, after Andy Burnham brought her back into the Cabinet
0:10
She's been installed in her old post as Housing Secretary ten months after quitting over unpaid tax
0:16
She was asked about that severance payment, virtually £17,000, on the BBC
0:22
No, my severance payment was given to me at the time. I'd worked in government for a period of time
0:27
and then I came out of government for just under a year, I think is the timetable
0:33
and I'll be delivering in government again. But on the Conservatives who took their severance, we're talking weeks
0:39
Some of them were even in a very short period of time, and I think that chaos and that wider point about delivering for the British people
0:47
is what we're focused on, is not having that chaos. Ms Rayna quit on September 5th last year
0:53
after admitting she didn't pay £40,000 stamp duty on a new flat
0:58
The argument now is whether she should repay the £17,000. Emma Wolfe, political commentator and author
1:04
you think she should. Why? Good morning. I mean, I cannot see..
1:10
By the way, good morning, Nick. That was a classic word salad from Angela Rayner there
1:15
She didn't answer the question, immediately sort of flipped to the Conservatives
1:19
She avoided the direct, obvious question. which I think most people could answer, which is, this is morally wrong
1:26
If not legally wrong, legally she's entitled to that severance pay. She is back in the same job
1:33
As you say, housing secretary, 10 months after being removed from that job
1:38
astonishingly she's back in that job. Despite her own lack of clarity, apparent lack of clarity on paying the correct stamp duty
1:45
many would say that she's lucky to have a job, let alone that same job
1:50
All right, let me spell... I don't agree, and let me spell out why. Emma, you and I are working for a newspaper called The Daily News
1:57
and we are dismissed and given severance payments because they no longer want our services
2:02
The Daily News is then brought by a totally new company with new editor
2:07
and he or she decides that actually we need Nick and Emma back because they were damn good at their jobs
2:11
Why on earth should I give the severance? They fired me, they gave me the money, they now want me back
2:16
new administration, new management, I'm not giving you the money back. Not a new administration, not really
2:22
It is. Well, OK, it's the Labour Party. Come on, Emma. Andy Burnham is a new administrator
2:27
Come on, come on. Got to accept that. Well, OK, but also, come on, come on
2:32
We also know that £17,000 is a lot of money to most people
2:36
It is. I agree with you. Look, legally, I'm not saying she's done anything wrong
2:42
and actually she did now correct, you know, she has now paid the correct amount
2:46
But this stinks to high heaven. Why? And Angela Rayner and Burnham could send a really clear signal about cleaning up politics and about a fresh start
2:58
But there's nothing to think she's done nothing wrong. She was fired for a reason She now back doing the same job The severance was for leaving that job Look he keeps saying he keeps Burnham keeps telling us that he gets
3:15
it, that this is a significant change in politics. He talks about being a cost of living government
3:21
This is our money. Every penny of that severance pay is taxpayers' money. You know, a £2 bus
3:27
that's not a lot. To which she was legally entitled. 75 pence off our electricity bills for a bit
3:33
for only six months by the way, not a year. 75 pence a week. People, we're not fools but we know
3:39
for most of us, 17,000 is a lot and it really, if she won't return it, I would take it, I would dock
3:46
it off her pay packet. I would take, like they do with our student loans, I would take 10 pound a
3:51
week, whatever she can afford. I can sit down with her, work it out, you know, take 100 pounds a month
3:56
off her pay packet going forward. This is morally wrong. I'm grateful as ever. Strong views
4:02
Emma Wolfe, author and political commentator. Emma's not alone. Conservative housing spokesman, so effectively Angela Rayner's
4:08
opposite number. James Cleverley. Rayner should hand back the cash. Her reappointment just
4:12
confirms that there is one rule for Labour and another for everyone else. Mr Cleverley, should we look
4:18
at the extraordinary number of Conservative Cabinet Ministers who, it was almost like the revolving doors
4:23
at Fortnum and Masons, and they were picking up a few quid as they exited. So
4:27
I think that's a bit rich. Angela Rayner is right. Keep the £17,000
4:34
Let's see what you make of that. James is in Maygore to talk about Angela Rayner
4:41
She needs to keep the money, doesn't she? Good morning. Nick, no. I believe she needs to hand it back
4:47
because everyone else who works in this country, if they are made redundant
4:54
then they get a severance. But it's terms of the contract. But they are not allowed by law to return to that same job for a year without having to pay that redundancy payment back
5:07
No, you don't know that. I'm sorry, that's totally wrong. No, it's not
5:11
No, it is, because I've worked at newspapers where it's happened. I asked my daughter, who's a HR director, if that was the case. That's the law, Nick. You're wrong
5:21
No, sorry, sir, you're wrong, because I've worked at newspapers where someone's been fired, new management have come in, and that person's been hired again within six months
5:30
Well, they broke the law. They didn't break the law. You are not... Please, Nick, please look up the HR policy, which every single person who is employed in this country has to abide by, and have a look at severance play
5:47
I think the circumstances concerning the Deputy Prime Minister might be slightly different to being, in want of a better expression
5:54
a regular organisation. The woman has done nothing wrong. Why is she different
5:59
She is employed like everyone else. Because of that, I would imagine the contract that she signs
6:04
I've never been Deputy Prime Minister, but I imagine the contract she signs But employment law is imposed on everybody by the government So you telling me she breaking the law by taking sorry by returning not returning
6:20
Correct. Why isn't that on the front? Right, hold on, hold on, hold on. Knowing the appetite some
6:24
newspapers have to go after Labour politicians, why isn't that on the front page? I don't know
6:30
Well, I do, because respectfully you're wrong. Please, I'm not wrong. You are wrong
6:36
My daughter is a HR director. I'm sure she's absolutely brilliant at HR
6:39
but she is, on this case, wrong. They run HR within the government
6:44
I know they run HR, but I'm telling you, this would be page one, two and three in some of our newspapers
6:50
And what she's doing is not wrong. Now, you can question it morally, although equally, I wouldn't..
6:56
And thank you, James. Please give my best wishes to your daughter. I'm not being rude, but we've reached an on-pass there
7:01
You're saying that it's wrong. I'm saying that it's right. There's no point going around and around that
7:06
but I wish your daughter good luck in her work in HR. Thank you. This is what you're saying on the emails and the text
7:15
This comes in from Sean. I think she should pay it back. She quit. Why was she given severance
7:19
Because it's in the... I don't know what we're not getting across. It is the terms of her contract
7:24
Pam in Sydenham. I think Angela Ryan should keep the money. Those callers are just sour grapes Tories
7:29
She lost her job. She was cleared. She didn't get it back. Now a new boss decided to employ her in his cabinet
7:34
It's not her issue, nor does she know that would happen. Her previous boss clearly had no loyalty to her
7:40
You need to shut these stupid people up, says Pam. David in Whitchurch, thanks for hanging on the line
7:46
This £17,000, should it come back? Good morning. Morning, Nick. First of all, normally, love your show
7:53
I still do. I normally agree with you. Normally, I love your show. I love that
7:58
On this stance, fully, fully disagree. I think there's a couple of things
8:02
One of your callers earlier, I think it hit the nail on the head, it's a moral issue
8:07
I fully understand, legally, she does not have to give it back
8:11
but she is a representative of the people, of the Labour Party as well
8:16
which is meant to be for the working people. Right. And I don't know if you know this
8:20
but some people are struggling to buy a toothbrush for 50p at the moment
8:24
Oh, don't go down there again, Dave. She can get a lot of toothbrushes
8:30
She can. But in all seriousness, I think it comes down to a morality thing
8:35
that £17,000 for a job that she quit, she wasn't fired. No, she was not
8:40
But she quit because she did something wrong. In that instance, I would say, look, give the money back
8:47
show that you're still there for the people, and that you can put your hands up, have some accountability
8:53
especially when you're going on about the chaos of the Conservatives, which I fully agree with, awful
8:59
Well, that's what I was going to say, but you quite rightly can counter that by David and saying two wrongs, three wrongs, 17 wrongs don't make a right, do they
9:07
Yeah And the difference between a few weeks in office and 10 months when you meant to be there for five years I would say both are failings OK I hear what you say So we on the same page legally But morally why is it important to you
9:23
Because I still think she should keep it. Why is it important to you, Lasty David? Because she's a representative
9:29
I want her to do a good job and an honest job in government
9:33
And I don't think she should be rewarded and paid financially for doing a bad job
9:41
No, indeed, and for getting it wrong. Can I ask you a question about a conversation we're going to have in the next hour
9:45
Because you're clearly a very clever bloke, and that was very funny what you said about toothbrushes. You're in Whitchurch, which is in Shropshire
9:52
We have a number 10 in Westminster. You're probably aware of this. As of today, we've got a number 10 in Manchester
9:58
and we're told that will help places such as Shropshire and Devon and Cornwall and the East Midlands and Tyneside and Teesside
10:04
David of Whitchurch, are you buying that? Yes, yeah, I think so
10:08
I'm not a Labour supporter, just to be very clear, but I do hope the best for Andy
10:13
I think he has many good plans. I spent most of my life in London working
10:17
so I've been to Westminster many, many times as a parliament, and I love that that is part of our capital
10:24
However, I've also been to many places up north that don't get the same feeling of being part of the wider government
10:33
I'm also from Wales, so development is quite a good thing. Has it worked in Wales, David
10:39
No, not at all. The principle is there, isn't it? The principle is there, as often
10:45
I suppose it's the practice of the principle. David, Sarah enjoyed our conversation. Very funny line
10:49
You absolutely got me. Congratulations. Absolutely. Brilliantly. Have a good weekend. Thank you
10:55
Lorraine says, This is now verging on bullying of Angela Rayner, who submitted to the investigation
10:59
lost her job in the process. When all the Conservatives who lost their job in the revolving doors of their government
11:03
give their severance back, then maybe Ms Rayner will give it back too. It is bullying
11:07
It leaves a bad taste, says Lorraine. Simon points out, people need to realise HR policy is not law
11:15
There's no law requiring someone to return a severance pay if they're re-employed by the same employer within 12 months
11:19
Well, we've actually looked it up on the relevant government website, and, of course, it is down to individual contracts
11:25
And, indeed, I don't think you would ever want a government deciding on all contracts across all bodies
11:30
all private companies, all public companies, government, everything. That is, for me, not what a government's put on earth to do
11:38
Hi, Nick. Hello. I think Angela Rayner, and by default Andy Burnham
11:44
I'm missing a trick here. Yes, she legally doesn't have to give the money back
11:51
but I think it would set a signal that they are doing politics
11:55
with a much more higher standard. Okay. And whilst we're on the subject
12:02
did John Healy get a payment as well? I'd need to check
12:08
That's a... Well done. I would think... I will answer that after the news
12:12
I would have thought almost certainly he did, unless there is a sort of period, effectively
12:17
where you're still in play, for want of a better expression. So you might have to be away from the job for, say, six or eight weeks
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