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00:00 | Recently, Robert Jenrick has released a series of videos in which he confronts shoplifters in the street.
01:41 | James Hanson expresses his hatred for the rise in shoplifting, calling it a 'scourge on our society' in his monologue.
He complains about how he sees brazen shoplifting daily, which makes him feel like 'a mug' for paying.
05:49 | Tom is a shoplifter and calls in from Leeds. He justifies it by saying the staff don't mind, and he could be stealing to sell on for profit for drugs like he did when he was homeless.
This sends James over the edge... "What gives you the right?!" he snaps.
12:37 | James can't quite believe that Kevin is calling in to tell him to stop picking on Tom for shoplifting.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
Reform's Robert Jenrick has released a series of social media videos in which he confronts
0:04
alleged shoplifters in Brixton Market in South London. In one, he challenges a man who allegedly
0:11
stole from a branch of Greggs. into shops and nick things
0:31
Oh, they ask you when they say yes. Oh, they're happy with it, are they? Right, yeah
0:35
Everyone loves them, it's shoplifting, don't they now? Yeah. Robert Jenrick, who can be a slightly slippery customer
0:42
I think deserves credit for calling out what is a bit of a scourge in our society
0:47
which is shoplifting. Then about you, I see it all the time
0:51
and I'm often tempted to intervene, but frankly, I don't always have the guts
0:56
But Robert Jenrick did that and I think he deserves some credit for it
1:01
Shoplifting, stealing, theft is wrong in any scenario, is it not? And we need to be doing far more to clamp down on it
1:12
Well, after posting the footage of those confrontations on social media, Robert Jenrick told The Telegraph this
1:18
quote, I am sick of seeing brazen shoplifting and nothing ever happening
1:22
In fact, the government is making it worse by letting prisoners out early
1:26
The shoplifting epidemic is forcing the cost of the weekly food shop up by 50 quid for British families
1:32
It is outrageously unfair. Reform will come down on shoplifters like a ton of bricks so we can lower food prices and give families some relief
1:41
I mean, I see this quite regularly where I live in South London, both in the local convenience store and in my local big supermarket
1:48
You just see people quite brazenly lifting stuff straight off the shelves, walking straight back out
1:53
and they make no effort to hide their tracks. They're not even stuffing stuff down their trousers
2:00
or in their hoodies or whatever. They're just blatant because they know
2:04
even though there's security on the door, the security will do nothing
2:09
And it is enraging and it makes the rest of us feel like mugs because I'm there thinking, well, why am I bothering to pay
2:16
Why am I even making an effort to pay for my shopping
2:21
when seemingly I could get away with not. Now, credit where it is due, the government did, earlier this year
2:28
scrap the ridiculous £200 limits on shoplifting offences because it used to be you wouldn't be prosecuted
2:34
if you were accused of shoplifting something under £200 in value, which meant that most people could get away with going into a shop
2:42
nicking a meal deal, nicking a soft drink, nicking a bar of chocolate, nicking a thing of booze, whatever it may be
2:49
and you'd never feel the full force of the law. Whereas for me, if you nick even a tube of toothpaste, the cops should come after you
2:57
Because that's wrong. I mean, you have to set the precedent, do you not, that any amount of shoplifting, no matter how small, is theft, it is criminality, and it needs to be prosecuted
3:07
And I wonder what your experience of this has been. 03456060973 is the number
3:12
And we can't pretend this isn't a very real problem, because according to the ONS, the Office for National Statistics, shoplifting is now at the highest level since records began, with over half a million reported offences in the year to March 2025
3:26
It has more than doubled in the past five years alone, although the true figure is almost certainly much higher
3:34
I mean, I think it would surely help if shop staff were not punished when they intervene
3:41
I mean there was the case earlier this year of the waitrose worker who was sacked for tackling a thief trying to steal Easter eggs That man a hero Why did he lose his job There was also the store manager at Morrison who was sacked after trying to stop a repeated shoplifter again Give them a raise
3:59
Give them a promotion. Don't sack them. Even security guards are often told not to intervene
4:05
But what is the point of having security guards if they can't tackle a suspected shoplifter
4:11
What on earth are they there for? I mean, genuinely, what are they there for? I think
4:15
is worth remembering, they're not working with huge margins. Because you do sometimes get these
4:19
apologists for shoplifters who say, well, does it matter? Because, you know, if you steal something
4:25
from one of the big supermarkets, they make loads of money, blah, blah, blah. Their profit margins
4:31
are pretty small. Average margins of 1.8% per product. So to put that another way, for every
4:37
£100 of product they sell, they made just £1.80 in profit. So that's not a great deal
4:45
0-3-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3 is the number. How often do you see shoplifting? Have you ever stepped in
4:53
What do you think the potential solutions are? And increasingly, I wonder if you see what you might describe as middle class shoplifting
5:00
where because it has essentially been almost decriminalised because you don't really see it being gone after
5:07
more and more people are sort of flouting the rules at the self-service checkout
5:12
I mean, in America, there was the case recently of a staff writer for the New Yorker magazine who admitted so-called micro looting
5:20
This is a woman called Gia Tolentino. She owns a two point two million dollar townhouse in Brooklyn, but says she has stolen from the retailer Whole Foods on several occasions
5:29
She actually wrote this. She said on one occasion she had forgotten to pick up lemons
5:33
So she stole a handful of them on her way out of the door saying I didn't feel bad about it at all
5:39
And isn't that part of the problem? We have moved beyond a sense of shame
5:44
No one feels bad about shoplifting anymore. And it's wrong. It is theft
5:48
It is criminality. I actually do shoplift, but only for food. You shoplift now
5:58
Yeah. For food? I don't do it every day. It's Greg's I go in
6:03
Right. I just walk in, pick the food up, and walk straight back out. I don't try and hide it
6:07
I've been stopped once by someone and the food just ended up on the floor
6:12
so nobody actually got it. And why do you shoplift, Tom? Because of no money
6:19
I'm hungry. Are you not able to claim benefits? Yeah, I do claim benefits
6:23
but most of it's gone by the time I get it. Why is most of your benefits gone
6:29
Because they're generally all out and they help other people out. But why... Hang on
6:34
The benefits are there for you. There will be other benefits available and other support, hopefully, for other people
6:40
With the greatest will in the world, I appreciate you might be in tough times, but what gives you the right to walk into a store
6:46
to steal something that isn't yours when all the rest of us are paying for it? I agree with what you're saying
6:52
but nothing gives me the right to do it. But years ago, I used to actually shoplift for money
6:57
when I used to be on drugs. And so that would be a source of income, essentially
7:03
and then you would sell on the goods? Yeah, that was quite a few years ago now
7:08
And what kind of stuff would you nick? Deodorant, links, meat, stereos
7:20
I've worked out sort of television before. And now you just steal food
7:27
Yeah, but not every day. But how often do you reckon? Three, four times a week
7:35
And does anyone ever stop you? I been stopped once in Greggs by someone And that was a security guard was it No just a have hero as we call them A have have hero And how did you respond to that
7:53
Did you have a bit of an argument with them? Did you kind of resist? But the food just ended up on the floor and walked off
8:02
But in the stop, you walk in there, the staff were actually over this side of the counter
8:07
but that's not because it's okay or because they're content with you doing it
8:15
it's because they're afraid of intervening or maybe they've been told not to intervene
8:21
because they're worried about the repercussions but I appreciate Tom that you may well have had a rough life
8:32
and I don't know your personal circumstances but is there no part of you that feels guilty about shoplifting
8:38
Not particularly. Why not? You're being paid benefits, so you have enough money to live on
8:46
but you shoplift. Yeah. Why? Well... Because you can. Well, yeah, for one of the reasons, but if I haven't got no money..
8:59
Well, you have got money. You claim benefits. Are you, what, universal credit
9:03
Yeah. Any other support? Pip So you get pip You get universal credits
9:10
Housing benefits Yeah Okay, so you're on a range of benefits And yet you still shoplift
9:17
Yeah, I didn't do really No, you should not do, Tom There is no excuse
9:25
It's like I heard one of the other call Just mention about people jumping tubes
9:29
The tubes and things like that Were you going to tell me you fair dodge as well? Yeah
9:35
Tom, Tom, look. No, Tom, Tom. What gives you the right? You are on a range of benefits
9:42
You get PIP, you get universal credit, you get housing benefits. What gives you the right to, on top of that
9:49
expect food that the rest of us are paying for for free? Because what you are doing is you are threatening shop staff
9:56
who feel insecure when they see people coming in every day, nicking stuff off their shelves, who are too afraid to intervene
10:02
and you're also pushing up the prices for the rest of us. That's true
10:07
But I still got to buy. I do buy food and that and stuff I need
10:13
It's only food I get. I see people go in Greggs and take all the drinks out of the fridge to sell
10:22
Things like that. So is your justification that because you're only doing a sandwich every now and then
10:29
and you're not shoplifting to sell on like you used to do
10:34
that you're not the worst of the bunch and so therefore we should turn a blind eye? Well, no
10:40
Anyway, yeah, I suppose. But look, we're from Fair Dodge and I don't actually just jump on and off buses
10:47
I ask the driver. What do you say to the driver? It takes a few stops for you to drive
10:53
And what does the driver normally say? Some say yeah and some say get off the bus. but Tom
10:58
if you were sleeping rough if you had nowhere to go if you had no money
11:04
then that would be different but you have admitted you're on universal credit
11:08
you get personal independence payments you're on housing benefit you have somewhere to live
11:12
and you still think that it is your right to go into a shop
11:16
and nick something that the rest of us would have to pay for
11:20
well I've got to pay for it as well because I still buy stuff
11:24
and I did usually home Yeah used to be homeless does not give you the right to steal stuff now If you are not homeless now I mean some would say even if you are homeless you shouldn be doing it That a separate debate But you have admitted you get housing benefits You have somewhere to live You on universal credit You have PIP
11:42
I don't know what your total annual income is from those benefits, but you have enough to get by on
11:47
And the reason we pay benefits to people like you is so that you can survive, so that you can get by, so that you can buy the essentials you need. yeah yeah
12:00
I'd like to work I would but because I've got mental health issues
12:07
and physical physical issues as well I can't I'm not even having the debate
12:12
about whether you should be working I'm just having the debate as to
12:15
it is wrong for you to be stealing when there is no need for you
12:19
to be stealing that's true I'm 50 years old I've been doing
12:24
most of my life stop listening. Well, stop. Yeah, I should do, really
12:30
You should. Will you? Probably not. Tom in Leeds. Good morning. I'm absolutely fuming at you, really
12:40
Fuming at me? Fuming, absolutely, yeah. Why are you fuming at me
12:44
Well, the Tesco's boss got a £10.8 million pay deal this year
12:51
Tesco's earned £3 billion profit last year, three billion for a shop
12:56
Now, you tell me who's stealing off of who. How many employees of Tesco
13:01
not just Tesco's, but other stores as well, are we paying to top up their money
13:07
because the employer does not pay them enough money? Michelle Moan, Michelle Moan
13:13
owes the NHS hundreds of millions of pounds. Why isn't Robert Jenrick
13:17
running after her? We've got Walter bosses who hundreds of millions. We can have a conversation we frequently do about the issues with the water industry and about dodgy PPE contracts, you name it
13:31
But why isn't the government chasing them? That call we have just had from Tom in Leeds, do you have any sympathy with Tom
13:40
Tom, if you're getting benefits, you should not be stealing. Yeah, exactly
13:45
That's the whole point. But why are you picking on Tom when we've got Michelle Moe running around
13:51
owning hundreds of millions of pounds? The Tesco boss got 10.8 million
13:56
But that is a private company. They're entitled to pay their boss whatever they want. They are
14:01
They are. But that tells me when they made three billion pounds profit, that tells me one of three things..
14:07
Well, that doesn't make it okay to shoplift from them. No. Well, let's be fair
14:12
If they're making £3 billion profits, they're overcharging me, the customer, for what they're selling
14:19
Well, then don't shop there. Well, then don't shop there and go to a different store. Honestly, people who have a go at the supermarkets, the supermarkets in this country are one of the best examples of a free market working well
14:31
Because, you know, you'll go into any supermarket and they'll be doing price matches. They'll be doing, you know, Sainsbury's is doing it at this price, so we've cut ours to this
14:38
It's a very, very competitive sector. The margins on supermarket products is not very much
14:43
No, but they're not paying their supplies, i.e. our farmers who are struggling
14:48
They're not paying their staff. So why is it that Teslas make £3 billion
14:55
Because they're a very successful company. But with respect, Kevin, that is a bit of whataboutery
15:00
We're talking about shoplifting and you're trying to go after the pay of private sector bosses
15:05
which, look, you may have an issue with, but no one's breaking the law there
15:09
whereas someone like Tom with respect who I'm grateful for the call
15:13
and I admire on one level his honesty but I'm also quite appalled
15:17
by what he admitted to and I don't know how you can't just go
15:21
yeah, that's wrong. Kevin, we're going to have to leave you there. Thank you for your calls
15:25
and messages on that this past hour. Coming up..
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