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British armed forces have intercepted a Russian shadow fleet vessel in the Channel during a pre-dawn operation. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said Royal Marine commandos and specially trained law enforcement officers from the National Crime Agency boarded a sanctioned oil tanker during a six-hour operation – the first UK-led operation of its kind. The vessel Smyrtos will be provisionally moved to an anchorage off the south coast of England and be monitored for any environmental or safety concerns. Lewis Goodall is joined by Colonel Philip Ingram to discuss where we stand. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lewisgoodall #putin #specialforces #military #uknews #keirstarmer #ww2 #lbc
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0:00
Let's talk to Colonel Philip Ingram now, former British Army intelligence officer
0:03
And before we get to that question about defence, Philip, can we just maybe start with this news from the channel on the shadow Russian oil fleet
0:12
which has been a big problem and seems to be becoming a bigger problem
0:16
How big a moment do you think it is that British armed forces personnel have directly intercepted one of these vessels
0:23
Well, I think it's significant and it shows that actually we've now got a little bit more political backbone
0:28
There have been dozens of Russian Shadow Fleet ships that have come through British waters
0:33
and we've done nothing about it. Even after the Prime Minister said that he'd got the clearance to do that
0:38
it seems as if Lord Hermer, the Attorney General, was still putting the kibosh on it
0:45
And it's a fantastic joint operation between the Royal Navy using the Royal Marines and naval vessels
0:51
and the Royal Air Force providing helicopter support and the maritime patrol aircraft
0:57
So a good operation, well executed. The timings make me slightly sceptical as to why the decision's been made to do it
1:06
because, of course, the Prime Minister wants to get a positive story about defence
1:11
Do you think that there could be a link between the former Defence Secretary John Healy's resignation
1:15
and the fact that the government has decided to act against this vessel at this time
1:20
I'm not a betting man. I would put an awful lot of money on a bet to say that there's definitely been a link
1:25
really so it would be that cynical oh yeah i'm completely cynical you know the timing is uh
1:33
you you've got ministers going around doing all the press rounds at the moment
1:37
talking about this not talking about um the resignation of john healy and al cairns and
1:43
the challenges that uh the new secretary of state for defense is going to have um just on this
1:49
question before we move to that and we certainly did put some of those points to lisa nandy but
1:53
Nonetheless, this question, the Russian shadow fleet, most people obviously will not be aware of it
1:58
or only dimly aware of it. Exactly what is happening and why is it such a problem
2:02
Well, what is happening is the Russians are exporting oil to different parts of the world
2:08
in particular to India, to China, and to Turkey and some other countries so that oil can be processed They using ships that are not necessarily flagged Russian but they harrying them And a lot of these ships are not sea They using flags
2:22
of convenience. They change their flags of convenience depending on the international
2:26
waters that they're going through, which means that a lot of them don't have the international
2:30
certification for safety that they need to go around the world. And that oil, the products that
2:37
they're carrying are helping to fund Vladimir Putin's conflict. If he can't export his oil
2:41
products. We see the effect the Ukrainians are having in destroying Putin's own refinery
2:46
capability. If he can't export that, he can't make money to continue to fund his war. So this
2:51
is something that has been going on for quite some time. International community have sanctioned a
2:54
lot of these ships. The United States have boarded and arrested a number of them. The French have
3:00
done a few as well, as have other nations going through the Baltic. This is the first time that
3:06
the UK has got directly involved and used our military to arrest one of these vessels
3:11
And the prospects of any retaliation from the Russians? Oh, almost certainly there'll be some form of retaliation
3:16
It'll be something in what we loosely describe as the grey zone. So it could be a cyber attack
3:23
It could be anything that the Russians specialise at and doing something that won't necessarily be linked directly back to them
3:31
But they will try something. And presumably the Russians deny that these ships
3:35
are actually part of the Shadow Fleece at all. Well, of course they do
3:39
But one of the clues has been recently, as some of the ships are going through the channel, they've been escorted by Russian warships
3:46
Well, that would be a bit of a hint, wouldn't it? Yeah, that is a bit of a hint. And then there was another one that the Americans were going to arrest
3:53
And a couple of hours before the Americans went arrested, it changed its flag to a Russian flag
3:58
So they've been trying to do anything they can to deter this from happening
4:02
And it's a game of cat and mouse. And it's a game of cat and mouse that we've been talking about supporting and dealing with for a long, long time
4:10
Not actually done anything. This is the first time we've actually done something properly. The letter this week from John Healy, I mean, just from a political level, never mind the defence level
4:19
I mean, I can't remember anything quite like it, an outgoing defence secretary accusing the government of which he's been a part
4:24
and the prime minister under whom he served of essentially failing to protect the country and doing what is necessary to protect the country Do you agree with Healy ysis 100 And you combine that with the ysis that came from Al Cairns
4:39
one of the most decorated MPs and ministers we've ever had, a former Special Forces Special Boat Service colonel
4:45
who has got the operational understanding, and he re-emphasised what John Healy did and added a few more things in
4:53
The government did inherit a complete and utter disaster of a minister of defence
4:58
But instead of fixing it, they've made it worse and their plans are going to make it even more worse with the lack of funding that's going in at a time whenever the threat environment has actually changed and become more intense
5:13
What do you say to the argument? And I have to say, I hear this quite a lot. I get people writing to me about it. I can see people messaging about it right now
5:20
There's quite a lot of scepticism from some people, some on the left, but not all on the left, who think that this is part of a defence industry that always wants more money, a Ministry of Defence that always wants more money and, frankly, is often very bad at spending money, that is protected and insulated from the consequences of some of its decisions by comparison to other bits of the public sector
5:40
I mean, if the NHS or the schools or whatever had had some of the absolute white elephants and fiascos that the Ministry of Defence has committed itself into, we'd never hear the end of it
5:48
There's a lot of scepticism out there that this is just money will disappear down a black hole
5:53
Oh, I agree with a lot of those people that are being sceptical about giving the Ministry of Defence more money
5:59
And I've said publicly that the Ministry of Defence needs to reform the way it procures equipment, the way decisions are made
6:08
It needs accountability. There is no accountability in the Ministry of Defence and we need to get accountability and we need to get better procurement
6:14
But that doesn't get away from the fact that actually the threat environment that we're living in at the minute is growing enormously
6:21
The UK is under direct attack on a virtual daily basis. The fact that our security services, our police and what limited military capability we've got at the minute has continued to keep us safe doesn't mean that it couldn't get worse
6:38
The Ukrainians, you know, just over four years ago in Kyiv were going about their normal business, not expecting anything to happen
6:45
And then on the 22nd of February that all changed when Russia invaded Russia has got the ability to cause real disasters across the United Kingdom to the likes that we have never seen before
6:57
And we need to recognize that we are putting it into historical context in about a 1936-1938 moment
7:04
whilst our politicians are coming down the steps of an aircraft, waving a piece of paper saying
7:10
peace in our time, we're investing in this. The reality is they're not. and we've got a big bad wolf just breathing down her neck
7:16
who's getting worse. So you would draw a direct comparison, as you just have really
7:20
Philip, with Keir Starmer and Neville Chamberlain? Very much so. We're seeing the same sort of level of indecisiveness
7:27
and it is pushing us to a point. The best way to stop a war and to stop getting into conflict
7:34
is to make it so bad for someone who might attack you
7:39
that they're going to think of something else. We're not. We're exceptionally weak at the minute and we're getting weaker
7:46
But what is Vladimir Putin? Some people might say, look, Vladimir Putin. Yes, he's turned Russia into a war economy
7:54
Yes, he's managed to mobilize an enormous number of people and equipment material
8:01
But also he hasn't won in Ukraine. He hasn't achieved his objectives in Ukraine
8:05
He's lost half a million men, probably more. He's spent an enormous amount of money and isolated Russia on the international stage
8:12
Is it very likely in the wake of that that he would press against a NATO country
8:18
Unlikely he'll press against a NATO country, but he'll press against NATO countries interests
8:22
All of our listeners that are out there at the minute are feeling what Vladimir Putin is doing and his wider prink countries are doing in their pockets
8:32
Just look at fuel prices. Just look at the impact that that's having on grocery prices
8:36
All of it is linked, and people are sitting in relatively well-off environments
8:42
even if they hit what is described as poor, because they can still afford these price increases
8:48
But it's that that's leading to the call for increased benefits bills and all the rest of it
8:53
Putin is hurting us, every single citizen of this country, in our pockets today
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and we have to recognise that. It could get hugely worse. Colonel Philip Ingram there, former British Army intelligence officer, expert as well on international security
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