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Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this important video, we’re addressing a sensitive but crucial topic: sexual abuse. We'll talk about what sexual abuse is, how to recognize warning signs, and what steps you or someone you know can take to get help and stay safe. Understanding this subject is essential to prevent harm, support victims, and raise awareness for everyone’s safety.
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:06
hi everyone I'm Kelly ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi
0:12
everybody thank you so much for tuning
0:13
in today to adaptable I'm Kelly ooro
0:15
your host and I'm pleased to have you
0:18
here this is a topic that we've been
0:19
asked to do a show on uh and so although
0:23
it's a it's a painful topic for those of
0:25
you who this applies to uh we're going
0:27
to be talking about sexual abuse uh
0:30
mainly the Gap in knowledge and what
0:32
people consider to be sexual abuse
0:34
versus mistreatment and so on and so
0:37
forth and so we're hopefully going to
0:38
help fill that piece in for those are
0:40
who are wondering uh and I'm especially
0:43
pleased to have with me today my
0:45
colleague and friend Ellie Harris she is
0:47
also a therapist here at infinite
0:49
healing and wellness and um I am just
0:52
really grateful that you wanted to do
0:53
this show with me so uh without further
0:56
Ado please tell me a little bit about
0:58
yourself yeah my name is Ellie Harris I
1:01
am a licensed associate counselor at our
1:04
Gilbert location for infinite and I'm
1:07
really passionate about this topic um
1:09
before I became a counselor I had the
1:12
opportunity to work with organizations
1:14
that worked with survivors of sex
1:16
trafficking and through that really grew
1:19
a heart for for people that experience
1:22
sexual abuse and sex trafficking is on
1:25
such a you know severe end of the
1:28
Continuum because what we're going to
1:30
really dive into today is is how that is
1:33
truly such a Continuum and and and
1:36
things can happen that are that that
1:39
many people would really dismiss or
1:40
minimize their experience but would
1:42
technically be considered a sexual abuse
1:44
experience or encounter and likely cause
1:48
a lot of long-term damage and and so we
1:51
want to really inform and Enlighten our
1:53
audience today as to what what
1:55
constitutes sexual abuse and what are
1:57
things that people might need to
1:59
understand about
2:00
you know what what that that that means
2:03
so we're going to start with kind of
2:04
defining what that what sexual abuse is
2:07
and it in in order not to be too
2:09
rigorous about that I think we need to
2:11
make sure you include non-con consensual
2:15
touch um you know obviously rape where
2:18
there's a forced sexual encounter um
2:21
maybe where someone is shut down and
2:23
they don't say anything but the absence
2:26
of saying yes can be a mistreatment
2:30
children who don't have the abilities to
2:32
consent or say anything or fight back or
2:35
say no those would be considered sexual
2:38
uh misconduct or abuse what are some
2:39
other things that that come to mind for
2:41
you that we want to make sure we we
2:43
understand as a broad Continuum of this
2:45
potential treatment yeah I think you
2:49
know there are a lot of moments where
2:50
people may learn to have a freeze or
2:52
shutdown response based on maybe past
2:55
experiences or or that lone experience
2:58
of sexual abuse
3:00
and that that could look like a a person
3:05
not fully saying no in a moment where
3:09
they don't feel very comfortable or
3:12
maybe even moments where they're
3:13
intoxicated and they don't have the
3:15
ability to fully consent so there are
3:18
moments that may not look like your
3:22
typical rape experience I mean even in a
3:25
in a husband and wife absolutely you
3:27
know where people think well we're
3:29
married so that would count but if if
3:31
she said no and he decided you know
3:34
that's that's we're going to continue
3:35
anyway that would still be considered
3:37
non-consensual yeah and I think that's a
3:39
really great point because just because
3:42
someone gave consent at one point
3:45
doesn't mean that they're always going
3:46
to feel safe or comfortable to engage in
3:50
a sexual act yeah I mean I'll share a
3:53
little personal story with you that I
3:55
think that got me thinking especially
3:58
after the me too movement I I was
4:00
reflecting on you know what were my me
4:02
too moments because for most of us women
4:04
we've had them and I think that that
4:07
movement really did a great job of
4:09
helping us Prime our thought process and
4:12
go back into the memory networks and say
4:14
you know what did happened to me that
4:16
that really wasn't okay but I never gave
4:18
it you know it's due attention time
4:21
honor and maybe minimized it and for me
4:24
I was on this uh trip when I was a kid
4:27
heading to a ski trip I was like 15 my
4:30
mom was with me but it was with my work
4:32
and co-workers were of all ages and I
4:34
was sitting next to this man uh who I
4:37
didn't know very well but I just
4:38
happened to be next to him on the bus
4:39
and he was much older I mean I'm 15 and
4:41
he's well into his mid to late 20s if
4:43
not even 30s and I woke up to his hand
4:46
down my pants underneath a blanket and I
4:49
was so uncomfortable and nervous and
4:52
scared and didn't know what to do and so
4:54
I pretended like I didn't you know like
4:56
I was just waking up and I didn't know
4:58
and I went to the bathro and I just
5:00
stood in the bathroom and I looked in
5:01
the mirror and I was so scared I didn't
5:02
know what to do and I didn't know what
5:04
my mom could do and I didn't want to
5:06
have any sort of weird conflict I was
5:07
just it was strange and so I just went
5:09
to my mom and I said hey I need you to
5:11
trade seats with me and I didn't talk to
5:13
her about why until we had left the trip
5:15
uh for fear that she might have you know
5:17
done something really erratic and
5:19
protective on on behalf of me and I
5:21
didn't really know what to do about it
5:22
so it's just like little things like
5:24
that where you know I never said don't
5:26
touch me or move his hand or any of that
5:28
it was like I was startled and Afraid
5:30
and and so I just avoided it like it
5:32
didn't even happen and and I think there
5:34
are so many experiences that people go
5:36
through men and women alike that are
5:38
just really dismissed or minimized yeah
5:41
absolutely and you may not have said no
5:44
outright but you clearly didn't give
5:46
consent in that moment right so Ellie
5:48
you know you talked about this being a
5:50
really passionate topic for you but I
5:52
think it's important that we clarify
5:54
some misconceptions that people often
5:56
have when it comes to this discussion
5:58
what would you say are something that
5:59
you've heard the most related to your
6:01
case load and your history as a a
6:03
therapist and and also your history with
6:05
your um previous work yeah well I think
6:07
you already named one of them that you
6:10
know a lot of people believe that just
6:12
because you're dating or in a marriage
6:14
or some relationship where you feel safe
6:18
with that person doesn't mean that this
6:21
doesn't happen sure in in dating or in
6:23
marriage you know just because you gave
6:25
consent once doesn't mean that you're
6:27
always going to feel safe in certain
6:29
moment and that could be based off of P
6:32
past experiences where you know maybe
6:35
you haven't fully worked through a
6:37
sexual abuse experience from your past
6:40
and something triggers those feelings in
6:42
your
6:43
relationship and may make you feel
6:46
unsafe again so um those moments you may
6:49
have to communicate that to your partner
6:51
for them to know well and I think that
6:52
brings up a good point in that if if you
6:55
know your partner and your partner has a
6:58
propensity not to speak up I think
7:00
there's a responsibility on the part of
7:02
the person who's engaging in that they
7:05
um may know a history of you where you
7:08
haven't been as likely to speak up about
7:11
something and I think it's appropriate
7:12
to say you know are you sure you're okay
7:14
with this we don't have to do this if
7:16
you're not comfortable and give them a
7:18
more direct out for someone who might
7:20
have a history of of a freeze or submit
7:22
shutdown response to fear or threat kind
7:25
of like I talked about yeah you know not
7:27
knowing what to do and so I did nothing
7:30
absolutely and looking for that that
7:33
partner to be actively you know
7:36
contributing to this experience where
7:39
maybe they they can't say no outright
7:42
but you can tell by their body language
7:44
and how they present in in intimacy if
7:47
they're sure you know willing or not
7:49
like the non non-participatory
7:52
experience and and just checking in
7:54
about that for either for either sex or
7:57
either gender I think it's important to
7:59
to just be checking in as part of a
8:01
truly safe intimate experience yeah
8:03
absolutely and that brings me to another
8:05
common misconception that you know
8:07
sexual abuse only happens to women you
8:10
know we see in a lot of surveys that men
8:14
definitely experience it as well um I
8:17
think it was a survey in in 2015 that
8:20
showed about
8:22
24.8% of men experience some sort of
8:26
sexual you know abuse encounter or
8:29
violence towards them and almost 47% of
8:33
transgender people experience the same
8:36
thing and so it's it's not only women no
8:39
of course and I do think that's an
8:40
important topic to bring up no no
8:42
question I remember back when I was in
8:45
college as part of my training to become
8:46
a resident assistant in my dorm they
8:49
talked to us about how one in Four Women
8:51
would have had some kind of sexual abuse
8:54
or mistreatment and I just thought that
8:55
is such a high number you know when you
8:57
think about how many of us are walking
9:00
around with some history where there was
9:01
danger and something that when done well
9:04
is such a pleasant experience you know
9:06
the intimacy and sexual experience when
9:08
done safely and with someone that you
9:10
trust and you know all of that it's not
9:12
supposed to be a bad scary or dangerous
9:15
memory another misconception I think
9:18
that touches on that is you know just
9:21
because someone finds pleasure or
9:23
something feels good during the sexual
9:25
abuse doesn't mean that it might not be
9:27
sexual abuse and so I think about a lot
9:30
of clients that I've had that were
9:32
sexually abused as children you know our
9:34
bodies are made to enjoy certain things
9:38
and find pleasure in certain things and
9:42
when when something is touched in that
9:44
way you know it could feel or or engage
9:48
that that pleasure receptor and so just
9:52
yeah exactly and just because it felt
9:54
good doesn't mean that you were okay
9:57
with the the time the person or with the
9:59
situation that's an excellent point and
10:01
there that tends to uh be accompanied
10:03
with a tremendous amount of Shame you
10:05
know what's wrong with me that when my
10:06
dad was sexually abusing me you know I
10:08
went back for more and it's like your
10:11
your understanding of what sexual touch
10:14
and love and connection and intimacy got
10:17
so uh confused because you were so
10:20
little little and hypersexualized by the
10:22
wrong kind of person at the wrong kind
10:24
of time and so all of those wires just
10:26
get incredibly confused and crossed and
10:29
I I I agree that so many people deal
10:31
with a lot of Shame as well with that
10:34
sort of understanding of arousal and
10:36
pleasure combined with such a toxic or
10:40
or abuse of power yeah and so often we
10:44
see that sexual abuse is being
10:46
perpetrated by people the victim knows
10:49
not always more often than not and you
10:53
know there there can be this level of
10:56
feeling like you should trust this
10:58
person that you know and maybe even
11:01
sometimes needing
11:02
to go to that person as a survival
11:06
Instinct because you need them to care
11:08
for you still you need them to protect
11:10
you still and there can be a lot of
11:12
Shame with that I think as well and the
11:15
confusion because if it's one of our
11:16
primary caregivers we can't be angry at
11:19
them and fight against them because we
11:21
need them ultimately for our survival
11:24
and so when you start to think about the
11:26
confusion there and the orientation of
11:28
safety and autonomy and how we need our
11:32
caregivers as children or or even worse
11:35
um when we do go to ex Express that
11:38
something happened and then it's either
11:40
not believed or someone you know
11:43
minimizes it and then that my experience
11:46
I don't know about yours but oftentimes
11:48
is the more egregious thing it's I went
11:50
to tell my mom or whatever and and she
11:53
didn't believe me and so there's this
11:54
incredible betrayal that's now
11:56
associated with that behavior and it's
11:58
just really really painful you know how
12:01
we're received after something like this
12:04
happens that and we do try to get help
12:06
is is incredibly important and we're
12:08
going to we're going to talk more about
12:09
that but when you think about this
12:12
happening for example to minors I think
12:14
it's really important that we share with
12:16
our listeners signs to look for and what
12:19
might be uh you know an indication that
12:22
things could have happened where we may
12:23
not have known or a child didn't feel
12:25
safe enough or understand that this was
12:27
something they should talk to us about
12:29
yeah and I'll I'll use a example of a
12:31
client to highlight some some signs but
12:34
I think it's also important to mention
12:36
that just because a child is exhibiting
12:38
these signs doesn't always mean that
12:40
they're being sexually abused and so I I
12:43
tell my clients parents and and other
12:47
people to just be curious and in
12:50
question so I have this client who they
12:54
were sexually abused from starting
12:57
around 5 years old and about a year or
13:00
two later it wasn't immediate so about a
13:02
year or two later they started you know
13:04
being very hypersexualized they were
13:07
masturbating and watching porn uh their
13:10
mother found them doing this and they're
13:12
six years old their mother you know was
13:15
really angry at them and they and they
13:17
got in trouble for it um they started
13:19
acting out more at school and started
13:23
having a lot of nightmares about a
13:25
monster so these things weren't
13:30
necessarily always attributed to maybe
13:33
her being sexually abused as perceived
13:36
by her mom but there were also other
13:39
signs of her stepdad wanting to spend a
13:42
lot of time with her when she had other
13:44
siblings and you know it it didn't look
13:47
right a few red flags that a few red
13:50
flags so so some signs and symptoms that
13:53
you might see in a child are changes in
13:56
Behavior such as become more aggressive
13:59
or more withdrawn regressive behaviors
14:01
like bed wetting or thumb sucking um
14:05
inappropriate sexual behavior or
14:07
knowledge so talking about things that
14:09
they shouldn't really yet know about uh
14:12
things like avoidance of certain people
14:14
or places and having a profound visceral
14:16
response and relationship to that uh
14:19
changes in school performance you know
14:21
maybe they turn into someone who uh is
14:24
overachieving and they didn't used to be
14:26
or you see a sudden you know down in
14:29
their presentation of their their
14:31
studies and their grades what are some
14:32
other things that come to mind for you I
14:34
think really recognizing as well if they
14:36
feel uncomfortable being around certain
14:38
people or or um really want to be around
14:42
certain
14:43
people noticing changes in their
14:45
relationships yeah that's that's
14:48
definitely um important and then looking
14:49
at changes in emotionality increased
14:52
anxiety depression sadness weep
14:55
weepiness anger I mean I think you could
14:58
see any of the spectrum of emotions when
15:00
someone you know could potentially be
15:02
acting out from their their thwarted
15:05
experience that really wasn't okay and
15:08
that can evolve over time so someone
15:09
might start really sad shut down and
15:11
quiet and depressed and then maybe they
15:13
they get a little older and then they
15:15
start to be really angry violent or
15:16
aggressive so and again like you said
15:19
that doesn't mean they they've been
15:20
sexually abused if they're presenting
15:22
with these kinds of changes but
15:23
definitely something to look out for
15:26
yeah really any drastic change that you
15:28
noticed in your child I think a parent
15:31
should get curious what are some
15:33
physical signs that we should look out
15:35
for uh they could even just change what
15:38
they wear you know if their style of
15:40
clothing changes um if you notice any
15:42
bruising or um if they're starting to
15:46
self harm those can all be great Point
15:49
big indicators I think that the clothing
15:51
is really something I've had a few
15:53
clients who you know had an attribution
15:55
of it was that they dress too much like
15:57
a girl so they changed their clothing to
16:00
be much more masculine or hide their
16:02
their shape as a as a female uh cutting
16:05
their hair really short like maybe it
16:06
was the hair that attracted people and
16:08
so thinking about those drastic changes
16:11
physically are often you know something
16:13
we want to get very curious about and
16:15
and start to ask questions and and um
16:17
and and really get help if we if we are
16:20
sensing there's something more going on
16:21
there because they might not feel safe
16:23
enough to outright you know Express what
16:26
what really happened to them as a child
16:27
depending on on the family system and
16:29
the history and whatever else is going
16:31
on yeah and I think a lot of clients
16:33
that I've had have had that experience
16:36
where they they wish they look different
16:38
and if they just had shorter hair or
16:40
wore different clothing then maybe it
16:42
didn't happen but I think you know that
16:45
doesn't change that right the
16:47
powerlessness of it and and truly it's
16:50
not your fault for having your hair be a
16:53
certain L sure and that's not what made
16:55
you a victim exactly those are not the
16:57
things that that make someone a victim
16:59
and often times they're trying to find a
17:00
reason to blame that why were they the
17:03
one that was chosen especially in a
17:04
family system like let's say there's
17:06
three sisters and only one ends up being
17:07
abused you know they think what is it
17:09
about me that Drew the attention and and
17:13
can I change that so that it doesn't
17:14
ever happen again yeah truly I think
17:16
they're they're trying to find a way to
17:18
prevent it from happening again right
17:21
it's the illusion of control absolutely
17:23
based on a a reason that isn't really
17:26
probably even the reason yeah yeah so
17:29
another area that we need to discuss are
17:31
different cultures might have different
17:33
uh biases toward or against certain
17:35
things I know there are cultures where
17:38
uh the the male believes that the woman
17:40
is her property and that whatever she uh
17:43
because you know perhaps through
17:44
marriage or whatever she's required
17:48
to you know be able to be treated
17:51
however he wants her to be treated and
17:53
just because there are cultural
17:54
implications doesn't mean it's it's not
17:56
it doesn't mean it's okay and so that's
17:59
where the confusion can often happen for
18:00
women innately depending on the cultural
18:03
background where where the mistreatment
18:05
is normative and common and people are
18:09
taught that that's what's to be expected
18:11
depend expected depending on gender
18:13
stereotypes and and so forth so I think
18:15
that's another piece have you have you
18:17
can you think of anything specific
18:18
related to culture that we might be
18:20
missing yeah I think with part of that
18:25
the also in a lot of religious communi
18:28
is there's this um these teachings of
18:32
being obedient and being available or
18:36
forgiving if someone hurts you and I
18:39
think you know there's a lot of good
18:42
intentions behind those teachings but I
18:44
think the they can often be
18:46
misunderstood that I need to obey
18:49
someone that's trying to hurt me or obey
18:51
the command that that it's okay for them
18:53
to hurt me and then I need to forgive
18:55
them and not report it or not stand up
18:59
for myself in those moments excellent
19:01
excellent point and I think that really
19:02
leads us to the topic of Education you
19:05
know and part of why we wanted to do
19:07
this show is people just don't know what
19:09
they don't know and so part of our
19:11
responsibility of a as a society is to
19:14
make sure children are educated and so
19:16
what are some things we could do to do a
19:19
better job with that when it comes to
19:21
educating people from a younger age so
19:23
they understand what's healthy normal
19:25
and and could be expected yeah I think
19:28
it's really important to share with
19:29
parents in schools the prevalence the
19:33
signs that we discussed and really what
19:35
to do if we believe that someone's being
19:38
sexually abused right and you know like
19:41
you mentioned earlier how grown-ups
19:44
respond is so impactful on a child's
19:47
experience of this because if they try
19:50
to tell someone and and be protected and
19:54
that person either doesn't believe them
19:57
or minimize is the impact then then they
20:01
have to freeze they have to shut down
20:03
because no one's going to protect them
20:04
anymore right and even when they spoke
20:06
up it fell on deaf ears yeah absolutely
20:09
and less than I think it's less than 5%
20:11
of people who say this happened is it
20:13
not true I mean it's a really low
20:15
percentage people don't make this up if
20:17
if they say someone hurt them it's
20:19
almost always a true thing again there
20:21
are outliers there are exceptions but we
20:22
want to really erir on the side of truth
20:26
that we believe it's true and and find
20:27
out if if the child speaks up you know
20:30
really do our due diligence and
20:31
investigation on that yeah I mean I I've
20:34
worked with countless clients of the
20:37
impact that their parent didn't fight
20:39
for them or didn't believe them um a lot
20:42
of times because of the parents own
20:44
avoidant behaviors and and tendencies
20:47
and so how parents and and teachers
20:50
respond is so important and so some
20:52
things that I think would be helpful for
20:54
schools to do is maybe educate their
20:56
children a little bit earlier
20:59
um I think when I was in school we had
21:00
sex education when I was in fth grade
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and it wasn't even touching on the topic
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of sexual it was more based on like the
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biology of things yeah you know you
21:10
might start having your period and that
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means you're going to you know be ready
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you know it's like at 10 years old it's
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just not as um it's not what we need to
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learn about as much as not that it
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shouldn't be taught but that it needs to
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be also taught about Healthy Touch and
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healthy you know and using your voice
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voice and if people are doing anything
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like that to you who are the safe people
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that you can go to and and if someone
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doesn't listen keep trying someone else
21:36
you know all those things that kids are
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just not taught and and doesn't
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encourage them to speak up yeah healthy
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relationships and consent um and and
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with parents I think teaching your kids
21:48
about their body parts teaching them you
21:50
know what is okay and not okay with
21:53
other adults or children around them to
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do and and having the ability say no um
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I think about a story of that my husband
22:02
told me once where you know when he was
22:05
really really young and his family they
22:07
would call their their penis a
22:10
bobo and um although you know it's I
22:14
think it a lot of families will have
22:16
more fun playful names for their private
22:19
areas um what this story kind of
22:23
highlights is when my husband got picked
22:26
up from I think preschool or
22:27
kindergarten that day
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um his friend's parent had picked him up
22:31
and he had you know a a scratch on his
22:36
arm or his knee I think it was his knee
22:39
and the mom asked if she could kiss his
22:43
Bobo because she wanted to kiss his
22:45
injury to make it feel better and my
22:48
husband in that moment he's like what
22:50
you cannot kiss my boobo thankfully as a
22:53
5-year-old knew how to say no uh but
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that's that's what can happen
23:00
un we don't always have theoi names for
23:04
parts so well I so appreciate you
23:07
sharing that story with us and and for
23:09
being here for this this show it is such
23:11
an important topic and there really is
23:14
such a tremendous Gap in our knowledge
23:16
as a society and um it's really great
23:19
that more people are speaking out and
23:22
this topic is coming up in common
23:24
circles because it is so unfortunately
23:26
prevalent and so I really appreciate you
23:29
being here um uh for for this topic and
23:32
for those of you who this might be
23:34
something that you have had to struggle
23:36
with please know that there's help
23:38
there's hotlines there's um support
23:41
groups and and it's really important
23:43
that you that you do ask for help and
23:45
speak up because this is not something
23:47
that will go away with time as far as
23:49
the trauma that comes from it and the
23:51
more we speak up about things that have
23:53
happened to us the more freedom we have
23:56
and the peace that we can achieve and of
23:58
of course if just that's not enough we
24:00
highly encourage looking into some
24:02
trauma treatment and um because there is
24:05
there is help EMDR therapy is a very
24:08
effective um modality to help with
24:10
trauma and can help the things that are
24:12
stuck in your body free up so that you
24:15
can have the life that you deserve to
24:16
have so thank you so much for tuning in
24:18
we appreciate you being here and until
24:20
we meet again don't forget to lead with
24:22
love it'll never steer you wrong
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you
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[Music]