Up next in 10
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this episode, Kelly O’Horo is joined by Ratna Gunnala and Jaime Castillo, both of whom are new moms and therapists. They discuss the challenges of being a new mom and how to prepare for having a baby. Kelly mentions that no matter how much one reads or prepares, it is impossible to be fully ready for the experience of being a new mom.
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:06
hi everyone I'm Kelly ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained Welcome to
0:12
our show today I appreciate you tuning
0:14
in this episode will be part of our
0:17
counselor Cafe which is a series where I
0:20
interview and communicate with
0:22
counselors about uh topics and issues
0:25
that are plaguing society as well as
0:26
mental health issues and in today's
0:29
episode we're talking about being a new
0:31
mom and this is part two so thanks for
0:33
tuning in I have with me Rota Gala who
0:36
is a therapist here at infinite healing
0:38
and wellness and friend and awesome new
0:40
mom and I have Jamie Castillo who is the
0:43
founder of Find Your Shine Therapy in
0:45
Tempe Arizona and she is also an awesome
0:48
new mom and so I'm so grateful to have
0:50
you both here joining us today to to
0:52
continue our cop uh conversation about
0:55
being a new mom and all of the things
0:58
that we didn't get get told before we
1:01
decided to go into this endeavor so if
1:03
you didn't tune in uh please watch part
1:05
one before you review this because it'll
1:07
make more sense for you so today uh
1:10
we're going to talk a little bit about
1:11
preparing for having baby and what goes
1:15
into that and what plagues us as we try
1:18
to get as ready as we can get for this
1:20
phenomenon that is totally unpredictable
1:23
and no matter what we read it doesn't
1:25
really matter right we're just not ready
1:27
until it's happened and then I don't
1:28
think you can really do anything to be
1:30
fully ready that's kind of my belief on
1:33
it yeah that's what I was going to say
1:34
when you said preparation I'm like what
1:36
what even is that because yeah it's when
1:40
it's a new experience how can you even
1:42
be prepared right you can read all the
1:46
books you can like you can do all the
1:48
things and it doesn't fully prepare you
1:52
maybe it helps a little but I don't I
1:54
don't know what your experience was like
1:55
Jamie with that yeah I think we had sort
1:58
of like opposite experience is where I
2:01
had a lot of anxiety during pregnancy
2:03
because of previous losses and
2:05
infertility and things like that and so
2:08
I remember trying to take one class on
2:12
like I think it was on breastfeeding and
2:15
I just felt so overwhelmed so over
2:17
stimulated I couldn't take in any
2:19
information and I sort of rote off like
2:23
the idea I I was like I'll just do it
2:25
I'll just learn by doing I'll just
2:26
figure it out as I go because that was
2:28
so overwhelming to me um and you
2:30
mentioned that you you took some of
2:32
those classes and you still didn't feel
2:34
really prepared not really like maybe I
2:36
could remember Snippets of it but when
2:37
you're super I mean I'm getting into
2:40
kind of further on in this process but
2:42
when you're super sleep deprived none of
2:44
that knowledge stays with you and it is
2:46
just survival mode you're just figuring
2:48
it out you're trying to grasp things
2:50
that maybe you've heard or read or
2:52
whatever but yeah you kind of just have
2:55
to do it you guys will have had a
2:57
different experience than me in that
3:00
there was we didn't even real I don't
3:02
even know that we had a computer so
3:03
there wasn't really this robust access
3:06
to Internet information and if so it
3:08
wasn't our common activity on how do we
3:11
Google something to figure out what do
3:13
we need to know about this because it
3:14
was so new you know my my youngest is 22
3:18
and so I got the book What to Expect
3:20
When You're Expecting so that I could
3:22
sort of follow through and figure out
3:24
you know what's going to happen and what
3:26
is he going to grow into and how is it
3:28
going to be for this
3:30
part of my pregnancy but I had you know
3:33
I had three other kids at the time so I
3:35
was still working full-time three other
3:37
kids there wasn't a lot I could actually
3:39
do because I was so busy with my current
3:41
set of responsibilities but I mean today
3:44
there's these apps you know when my
3:47
daughters in-law have had babies they're
3:49
like oh this is a a leap and you're in
3:51
this part of the pregnancy and I'm like
3:53
I don't even know what that word is you
3:54
know we we all have cours workk on
3:56
lifespan and development and I'm like I
3:58
don't even know what she's talking about
4:00
you know so it was just so interesting
4:02
how different it is with the access that
4:04
we have now to different you know things
4:06
and then the social media support or not
4:10
support yeah and and all that to what
4:12
end right I don't know how helpful or
4:15
hurtful it is to be able to Google all
4:18
of the things right cuz then I started
4:20
feeling this pressure of I've got to do
4:24
all the research there's like 500
4:26
different kinds of car seats and
4:27
strollers out there and all the things
4:29
that you can pick and like this one or
4:31
that one and this endless information
4:33
and and pressure to do it right you know
4:37
yeah it it's really a blessing and a
4:39
curse because on one hand it's
4:41
convenient you have information at your
4:42
fingertips and I think for me it was
4:45
like my demise I I
4:48
really it it became compulsive really to
4:51
like read everything and it would bring
4:53
my anxiety down a little bit when I felt
4:55
like okay I have a little bit but then
4:57
the anxiety would spike back up about
4:59
something something different and then I
5:00
tried to read and I was just spending
5:01
all my time like trying to research and
5:03
read as a way to soothe my own anxiety
5:05
when really it felt like it was helping
5:07
in the moment but actually was creating
5:09
like this longer term problem but then
5:11
your your menu of choices is greater and
5:13
greater so how do you narrow it down how
5:14
do you decide what information is good
5:17
what information I should listen to you
5:18
know there's a book about uh you know
5:20
attachment parenting and how co-s
5:22
sleeping is really important and then
5:24
there's another book about you're going
5:25
to kill your baby if you co sleep and
5:27
you're just like what are you supposed
5:28
to do you know I came from the era where
5:30
they were still in the whole cry it out
5:33
let the baby cry it out so I'm four
5:35
weeks old you know baby's four weeks old
5:37
after he's delivered and they're you
5:39
know I'm following the book because of
5:40
the shs and my you know my sister-in-law
5:42
had read the book and it was it was all
5:45
about you know they have to learn to
5:46
self sooth and so I'm dealing with all
5:49
of this shame now because I let him cry
5:52
it out meanwhile I'm crying I have to go
5:54
on a walk you know my boobs are leaking
5:56
because he's crying and I'm doing the
5:58
right thing and then later I learn you
6:00
know he's going into dorsal vagel
6:01
shutdown he's not gone to sleep you know
6:03
he's so stressed out and so how do we
6:05
know what to trust when we're preparing
6:07
and and how do we know what to listen to
6:11
and so what advice do you have for our
6:12
viewers about how do we pick what's the
6:15
right information I think for me if I
6:19
were to do it
6:22
again and you know nobody gets to do it
6:25
again so that's not super helpful but if
6:27
I were to do it again I think it would
6:28
be you know taking that information to
6:32
an end knowing that your kid isn't going
6:36
to fit the book you're not going to fit
6:39
the book right and so I wish I had
6:42
learned really early on to trust myself
6:47
and kind of my gut because there is a
6:49
lot of it at least for me that started
6:52
to feel more instinctual right right
6:55
when I started to like filter out some
6:58
of the noise
7:00
um but that didn't happen for me until
7:02
one of my good friends said hey you know
7:04
trust yourself it's okay take what you
7:06
like leave the rest absolutely what you
7:09
like you can't do it perfect and for me
7:12
being like an overachiever wanting to do
7:14
it all right all of that I don't think
7:17
any other experience in my life has
7:19
tested that part of me in the way that
7:22
motherhood has and so being able to slow
7:26
down and let some of that let some of
7:29
that go and know like hey you're doing
7:31
okay so I Echo what you said I think
7:34
tapping into your intuition is huge and
7:36
it's so hard to do right because you
7:39
want to get it right and I had a lot of
7:41
perfectionism stuff that got kicked up
7:43
and I think being therapists too were
7:45
acutely aware of the potential impact of
7:48
making like the wrong choice or like
7:50
misat tuning to your child and for me
7:53
that felt paralyzing it was like if I do
7:55
the wrong thing with sleep in particular
7:58
I'm going to damage my child um and it
8:01
was so black and white like I had to
8:04
made the right choice when really
8:05
there's no right choice there's just
8:08
what feels right for your baby and one
8:10
thing my personal therapist told me was
8:12
you only have to get it right 30% of the
8:15
time wasn't that a relief to hear that I
8:16
wish I knew any of that back then I
8:18
would have felt way better I was like
8:20
praise you I can't tell you how much I
8:23
needed that and I I think of that often
8:26
like I okay I can get it right 30% of
8:28
the time and it's not g to have these
8:30
enormous implications for my child if I
8:33
like don't let them or like let them
8:35
stay up a little bit longer because they
8:37
don't want to go to bed right now or
8:39
whatever well when you think about
8:40
flexibility being kind of the Pinnacle
8:42
of mental health us offering flexibility
8:45
as we raise our children and being calm
8:49
and measured as we're okay to be more
8:52
fluid it does pass on that to our
8:55
children our children then learn oh I
8:58
can go with the flow I can be more
9:00
flexible and so I can really Echo what
9:02
you said because I was trying to do it
9:04
perfectly as well as perfect as I could
9:07
based on the books that I had read
9:09
because I was in a little bit of a
9:10
different scenario whereas I had um
9:11
taken on my husband's first three
9:13
children and I didn't have them but I
9:16
did know that you know poor attachment
9:19
neglect abuse things that were
9:22
mistreatment of children create
9:24
longlasting
9:26
negative pres presenting issues and
9:28
implications to a child and I was trying
9:30
to help fix the things that had happened
9:32
by their biological mom for my older
9:34
three and so I was so nervous that I had
9:38
so much to do right because I see what
9:41
happens when you do it wrong and it's so
9:43
painful and helpless and so I was crazy
9:46
overfunctioning I was so rigid about
9:49
schedule and food and this I mean it was
9:51
just insane how I and and it felt
9:53
lifethreatening because I could see the
9:55
outcome when it wasn't done in a in a
9:57
meaningful calm way and and so my child
10:00
you know he is he really for a lot of
10:03
his early years demonstrated total
10:06
inflexibility I mean he it had to be
10:08
this way and it was because I needed it
10:10
to be that way and so I passed that on
10:11
to him I mean he's since you know
10:13
relaxed in the other direction so much
10:15
but but at the beginning I was like what
10:17
is going on why is he so anxious gee I
10:19
don't know you know what have I done so
10:22
I think there you know we we tend to do
10:24
all of these things without knowing the
10:26
implication so um let's talk a little
10:28
bit about the delivery oh fun who wants
10:31
to go first yeah I feel like I could
10:33
talk about it for a long time so let me
10:36
think about how to talk about it
10:37
succinctly um so for me that was another
10:41
source of just unpreparedness I was in
10:44
my head I'm like women have
10:46
babies all the time we've been doing it
10:48
for centuries like doctors know what
10:50
they're doing I'll just wing it and um
10:54
but and and I sort of expect I I put a
10:56
lot of trust in the medical community
10:58
and I you know expected that it would
11:00
just be sort of cut and dry um and I was
11:03
really lucky to have a great team of
11:06
nurses and doctors but things really did
11:09
get scary during my delivery for both me
11:11
and my daughter and my husband
11:14
unfortunately um he actually said that
11:16
he had a moment in the delivery room
11:18
where it occurred to him that it was a
11:20
possibility that he could go home with
11:23
the baby and without me right like that
11:26
I something bad could happen to me and
11:28
he could be
11:29
you know with this baby and no wife um
11:33
and that was a reality for a little bit
11:34
of time um and then your catapulted into
11:37
this new role as a mother and the focus
11:39
is 100% on your baby and you have to
11:43
simultaneously process what you just
11:45
went through which was like for me sort
11:48
of a near-death experience and it's like
11:51
there's no time for that right you got
11:52
to figure out press feeding you got to
11:53
figure out you got to log when was their
11:55
last poop when have how many peas have
11:58
they had in a day um how to breast you
12:02
know there's just so much and so for me
12:04
I think trying to figure out that role
12:07
while also processing what just happened
12:09
the gravity of what just happened um I
12:12
remember my doctor coming in a couple
12:14
days after the birth and saying we need
12:17
you to understand how sick you were and
12:20
and at that point she told me I needed a
12:21
blood transfusion and um and and it was
12:24
like at that moment that it occurred to
12:26
me like oh yeah I just I annoyed what
12:29
was going on like I had no was just so
12:31
out of it so it was a lot to process but
12:34
you're you don't really have time like
12:35
the focus is on the newborn now right um
12:39
so it was a lot and I'm still working
12:41
through it I can't say I'm out of the
12:42
woods yet but um it's a lot all at once
12:46
it really it really is R now what was
12:48
your uh delivery experience was yours
12:50
would you say pretty normal um no I
12:53
wouldn't say it was
12:55
normal um so I was one of the women I
12:59
think it's like a very small percentage
13:01
where my water actually broke at home um
13:04
and then you know we went to the
13:06
hospital I was admitted all of that and
13:08
then I labored for like two days and I
13:12
we were really trying for you know a
13:14
vaginal delivery because that's what I
13:17
wanted and then there just came a
13:19
decision point and I remember the doctor
13:22
saying like you guys have this choice to
13:24
make do we want to move forward with a
13:26
C-section or keep trying and I was just
13:31
devastated and I look back on that
13:34
moment and again just that societal
13:37
pressure right of like how it's supposed
13:40
to be done right or this very cut and
13:43
dry process and it's not you know and
13:46
all the expectations and it suddenly
13:49
being this thing that is is nothing like
13:52
what you thought it would look like um
13:55
so you know we made the decision to move
13:57
forward with a C-section because because
13:59
we just wanted it to be while it was
14:01
still safe and all of that and I relate
14:05
to what you're talking about as far as
14:07
just really being out of it you know
14:10
initially when I think like when I was
14:12
in the experience I thought I recalled a
14:15
lot of what had happened and I did up
14:17
until the surgery but afterwards
14:18
Everything feels like such a blur when I
14:21
look back on it now cuz there's just so
14:24
much going on and we normalized that
14:29
experience so much as a society and it's
14:32
such a huge tra it's traumatic for sure
14:36
for sure for and and our babies feel the
14:38
traumatic experience and it's part of
14:40
what informs how they come into the
14:42
world with a sense of safety or danger
14:45
and people totally minimize that
14:46
experience I mean they really really do
14:48
so but everything turned out okay with
14:50
your C-section everything turned out
14:52
okay with my c-section
14:54
fortunately um but yeah it just it still
14:58
shocked me how much we normalize that
15:00
experience of child birth because yes so
15:04
many women do it all of the time and
15:07
it's well and in other countries in
15:11
third world countries so many women die
15:13
and so many babies die because it is
15:15
such a it's a it's an extreme medical
15:18
experience and fortunately you know here
15:20
we have so much that we can utilize and
15:23
I know some women opt to not you know
15:25
have babies in hospitals and things like
15:27
that um
15:29
but I'm thankful I went to a hospital
15:31
because I have to say that you know I
15:34
delivered a week late and I mean he's 9
15:36
Pound one and a half ounces I'm you know
15:39
T thinking about episode one dealing
15:40
with all of those side effects and
15:42
symptoms of being pregnant I mean I was
15:44
real ready for him to get the heck out
15:45
of my body and I would talk to him all
15:47
the time like it's time bro like we got
15:49
to be doing this now I cannot anymore
15:51
and so I go a week late and I was told
15:53
by the OBGYN you know that baby is small
15:56
I don't know what you're talking about
15:58
you know there's no way that baby is
15:59
over 7 lbs and I'm just like you have to
16:02
I have to this has to be done like I
16:03
can't swallow I can't breathe I'm you
16:06
know water is making me throw up it's
16:08
crazy there's no room left and so she
16:10
goes well you can just start walking and
16:12
maybe that'll kick in uh you know um the
16:15
process of having the baby so my mom and
16:18
my husband went in shifts and I would
16:20
not stop walking I just walked to the
16:22
neighborhood circle circle and finally I
16:24
started Contracting and um I was like oh
16:27
it worked it worked I was ready to get
16:29
this go get this going and um I went to
16:32
the hospital cuz it had been like the 3
16:34
minutes and for a while and I thought
16:36
okay maybe it's time maybe I I got this
16:38
going you know my stubborn self won this
16:39
game here and I get there and and then
16:41
they stopped but what ended up being a
16:45
good thing was because I was there they
16:47
were able to see that his heart rate um
16:50
had changed and it was low and they were
16:51
like uhoh so they had to induce me so
16:53
they gave me pcin and you know I wanted
16:57
to do it naturally um but I was on pin
16:59
for like 3 days walking in the hospital
17:02
trying to get this thing moving again it
17:04
was so crazy so I'm in the hospital I
17:07
think my labor technically went 5 days
17:09
they ended up having to do that vaginal
17:11
s attack to get me to open because I
17:14
wouldn't I wouldn't um cont I couldn't
17:16
open it wasn't di I wasn't dilating and
17:19
so finally like day five you know my
17:22
water broke and I'm like oh my gosh
17:24
thank goodness and finally you know it
17:26
was able to happen but but not unlike
17:28
you perhaps I go to deliver and I end up
17:32
totally bleeding out and my doctor who
17:35
was very minimizing of things that were
17:37
dramatic and thought I was so dramatic
17:40
she called everybody in because I'm
17:42
bleeding out and and of course you're
17:44
delivering and I'm I'm so sorry I blush
17:46
you know I've gushed blood all over
17:48
everyone in the place and I'm
17:49
apologizing for splattering them like
17:51
you know it's talk about codependent you
17:54
know I'm like going to die and you know
17:55
they're shooting me with all these
17:57
things to start clotting or whatever
17:59
they're doing but same thing you know
18:01
there there was a reality of wow and
18:04
they I mean they they didn't throw my
18:06
son but they like tossed him off to my
18:08
mom like she's the first person who hold
18:10
him because they were trying to make
18:12
sure I didn't bleed to death so you know
18:14
like you say that my husband had that
18:16
same reality of he could have gone home
18:18
with a baby and not me um you know and
18:21
then of course I sort of had a little
18:23
positive thing when she weighed him and
18:25
everything was under control and they
18:26
said 9 lb one and a half ounces and she
18:28
goes can you do that again I I don't
18:30
know about that and sure enough and I
18:32
looked at her and I was like I told you
18:33
he was huge and he was ready you know to
18:36
get out of here but he was not trying to
18:38
get out so I I I really uh empathize
18:41
with people who've had scary experiences
18:44
and they could have gone in just such
18:47
traumatic ways and I I think there's so
18:49
much grief too in in the the difference
18:53
between what you expected or what you
18:54
wanted and the reality um I know for me
18:57
I had an exper experience similar to you
18:59
but it was you know leading up to the
19:02
pregnancy and the birth we had so many
19:04
losses and I remember I I I I told my
19:07
mom on the way to the hospital to be
19:08
induced like I'm still not convinced I'm
19:10
going to come home with a baby um
19:12
because I just you know I couldn't let
19:14
myself feel hope after all of that but I
19:17
had this moment of like okay when I see
19:19
her right like when they lay her on my
19:21
chest like that's going to be everything
19:23
it's going to make all the you know
19:24
years of losses and fertility treatments
19:26
and all this stuff worth it and I had
19:29
built that up so much like it would be
19:31
like the finale right like she's here
19:33
and it's everything and I remember they
19:36
they put her on my chest for two seconds
19:38
she had to be whisked away to the
19:40
nursery to get care but they they laid
19:43
her on me and I just felt nothing wow
19:47
and I
19:48
remember being so out of my body and so
19:51
detached and so sick I didn't realize
19:54
how sick I was I had an infection and it
19:56
was um and and I there's so much grief
20:00
in like how did I have my baby put on my
20:04
chest and look in her eyes and feel numb
20:08
it's just so different from you almost
20:09
died just now and and and there's some
20:12
Shock involved there and so it's it's
20:15
countering that shame with the reality
20:17
of you know you were in survival mode to
20:21
to move through that it's just and so
20:24
minimized by people you know but your
20:25
baby's beautiful and healthy and so the
20:28
sympathy comes through and like you're
20:30
so lucky that and at least this and so I
20:32
think there's that that we need to make
20:34
sure we normalize so thank you so much
20:37
for tuning in we know this topic sort of
20:39
ended a bit heavy for those of us who
20:41
had challenging deliveries and if that
20:44
is the case for you we'd love to hear
20:46
about your story in the comments below
20:48
and show up for you and help you to move
20:51
through some of the the traumatic
20:53
experiences you may have had but in
20:55
addition if that's not enough please
20:57
make sure you reach out to a a qualified
20:59
EMDR trauma therapist so that you can
21:01
move past this once and for all uh as it
21:04
is over if you're listening to this
21:06
podcast and you made it through and we
21:07
want your body to catch up with that
21:09
truth and um and the actuality and get
21:12
your body to match what your head knows
21:14
and so please utilize uh some of our
21:16
other resources in the podcast channel
21:19
uh as well as make sure that you take
21:22
care of yourself if this was an
21:23
overwhelming episode uh again we thank
21:25
you for tuning in and make sure to lead
21:28
with love it'll never steer you
21:31
[Music]
21:48
wrong
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#Parenting
#Babies & Toddlers