Up next in 10
Reform UK leader Nigel Farage has reclaimed his seat following a win in the Clacton by-election, as Count Binface comes in second with 26 per cent of the vote.
But Henry Riley has questions about why this went ahead despite the awaited results of the standards probe into the Reform leader.
00:00 | Jayden Palmer, former Reform UK election candidate in May's local elections and online political commentator believes Mr Farage 'looks absolutely stronger' as 'the main parties didn't even bother to stand'.
04:14 | The Lib Dems' Luke Taylor believes this was all designed to 'obscure' the £5m donation.
09:43 | Reform Cllr Alan Amos says: 'nobody talks about Burnham's by-election' and the cost of that.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
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0:00
Jaden Palmer joins me, who is with ReformUK
0:02
He was a former election candidate, and he's an online political commentator. Jaden, thanks for joining us
0:07
Do you agree with Nigel Farage's decision not to attend the count
0:12
Listen, obviously, I don't know actually what happened there. I don't know what internal party information they got
0:19
But if they thought it wasn't safe for him to go, being how, you know, of a decisive figure Nigel Farage is
0:26
I think it's better to take the safe route, especially upon what's happened in recent events
0:31
They could have communicated it a bit clearer, though, I'm sure you would agree, given we had about 15 different stories
0:37
Yeah, I would agree. But again, I guess it's not their full and wholehearted responsibility
0:42
to give the whereabouts and the safety of the MPs. But I think the safety of MPs have to come first at the end of the day
0:49
Sure. Can I ask you the sort of results we saw in Clacton
0:53
Nigel Farage won very resoundingly, there's no doubt about that. But he beat a bin
0:58
He beat the Everyone is God party. He beat an individual called Woke Trump Kazi
1:03
He beat three monster-raving loony party candidates. No Restore Britain, no Labour, no Lib Dem, no Green, no Conservative
1:11
Does he look silly or stronger as a result? I think he absolutely looks stronger, firstly
1:17
Really? Yeah, 100%. Because I think it's an absolute disgrace that the main parties didn't even bother to stand a candidate here
1:25
You have to remember, months and months of them saying Nigel Farage is in Clacton
1:30
months and months of them saying the voters of Clacton have lost trust in Nigel Farage
1:35
And when they're finally given a chance to stand up to him in a proper by-election, where are they
1:40
They've run and they've hid. Now, Count Binface himself, he was a likeable protest vote, which a lot of people voted for, who didn't like Nigel Farage
1:49
I think the fact that the mainstream parties ran and, you know, basically chose Count Binface as the United protest vote
1:58
I think it shows the strength of Reform UK. And I think leaving with 63% of the votes is a very strong result
2:05
When they call him an establishment candidate, I mean, come on, we can admit that's a bit silly
2:09
An intergalactic space lord, self-described, is an establishment candidate. I don't think himself is establishment candidates
2:16
I think what he represents because of the mainstream parties leaving by default
2:21
these are filtering down to this protest vote. Sure. Can I ask you specifically on those points then about Nigel Farage and looking stronger as a result
2:30
Why was the by-election actually called? Because I don't quite understand what had changed between the general election and this week
2:39
It was the investigation. Now, I want to be very clear. This wasn't to determine whether he has broken any rules
2:45
That was never the point of this election. The point was, this investigation is going to run for months and months and months
2:50
We're going to have headline after headline how the Clacton voters don't trust him anymore
2:55
That's what we were going to have. Nigel Farage has brought the decision to the Clacton voters
3:00
Sorry to interrupt you, Jayden, but he's crucially brought that decision before we have any outcome into an investigation
3:08
I mean, that is not a proper decision, is it? I mean, if Nigel Farage wants to put himself before the electorate
3:14
then surely they need to know the result of that standards probe first. Well, if he has found to broken any rules
3:20
then the procedure will follow after that. But this is a very long-standing process
3:26
It's going to take many, many months. And I think he made the right decision in taking the democratic decision
3:32
But why, if there's a prospect of it happening again? That's what I don't understand
3:35
If he hasn't broken any rules and he's confident he hasn't broken any rules, then why do we have to go through the whole bloody charade
3:41
Because you never know what a standards investigation can be found You never know there about a thousand different variables that could have happened here Again I don know the details of what Nigel Farage has done here
3:52
But like I said, given the Democratic choice to Clacton during this period of who they want as their MP
3:58
given that they know of this investigation, given that this investigation is going on
4:02
I think it's a fair and good response. And he had a great result on the night. I think it's great for the party as well
4:07
Jayden, great to speak with you. You actually perform much better than some of the reform MPs on the round
4:11
So I appreciate you joining us. Jaden Palmer, Reform UK local election candidate. Luke Taylor is Liberal Democrat MP for Sutton and Cheam
4:17
He's also the London spokesperson. Luke, thank you very much for joining us
4:22
Why do we have this election? It's exhausting, isn't it? Keeping up and trying to work out whether they're stupid or just lying to you
4:31
It must be hard work for yourself. It's hard work for us in Parliament trying to keep the ladies' comment on the nonsense they're telling us
4:39
Look, this election happened for one reason. It was for Nigel Farage to try and obscure the fact that this investigation into the five million pounds he received from a crypto billionaire that he didn't declare when he was elected as an MP
4:53
and he tried to get ahead of it by calling a by-election
4:57
so he could point to a by-election where he stood against none of the major parties as his mandate for breaking the rules
5:07
for lying by omission to residents and ultimately bringing our democratic process into disrepute
5:15
What I don't understand is I don't agree with the by-election we had in Clacton. I thought it was a farce
5:20
Likewise, I also don't agree with the Makerfield by-election, the idea that you can just stand aside and have someone sort of almost swoon in and take that
5:28
But the Lib Dems stood in one and not the other. And for my mind, you should be standing in both
5:33
Well, this wasn't a by-election with any purpose. This by-election was about Nigel Farage obscuring the investigation into the £5 million gift he received and then did not declare
5:44
When we're elected as MPs, we sit down and we get advice on filling out a register of interest
5:49
and quite clearly, this £5 million he received was related to his political activities
5:55
because it came from someone who had already donated huge amounts of money to his political party
6:01
Subsequently, yes. No, no, no, no. Prior, he had £9 million received
6:07
prior to the £5 million he received personally. Mind the saying, he's the biggest donor, isn't he
6:12
in political party history? Absolutely. OK, well, I didn't realise it was before
6:16
It was prior. So there's no argument that this money was not related to his political activities
6:23
Therefore, he should have declared it. And he didn't to obscure where money was coming from
6:30
who was supporting him and his political activities. And the by-election was called so that he could say
6:35
hey, look, I've asked my people in Clacton whether they think that I've followed the rules or not
6:41
And that's going to be his argument as this process goes forward. I don't think Cal Bimface was the establishment candidate
6:47
but what I do sympathise with is, I mean, the Lib Dems put some bizarre picture on their feed last night
6:53
of Paddington Bear leading Count Binface back to the sort of planet Bizarre, or whatever the hell it was
6:59
Please tell me you weren't behind that rubbish. I raised my eyebrow at it. I think that this whole election was a farce
7:07
I do have concerns about the way and the respect that it has for the residents of Clacton
7:11
that this is a hugely deprived area. My grandparents lived there for decades
7:16
I visited a number of times when I was young. My father sold ice creams on Claxton Pier when he was younger
7:23
Like this is an area that has dignity. These people are being let down by Nigel Farage turning it into a circus about his personal popularity about using it as a way to obscure whether parliamentary procedures have been followed or not
7:40
It's £250,000 of taxpayers' money that have gone into this by-election. And then if the standards investigation finds that he has broken the rules
7:49
there is the cost of a recall petition where polling stations have to stay open
7:53
for the period that the recall petition is active, and then the potential for another by-election
7:58
It's an insult to the residents there that Nigel is bringing them into this circus
8:02
It is a huge cost to them for projects now that can't take place
8:07
There'll be public realm projects that won't get funding because they're going into this
8:11
There'll be extra debt on the council's books, therefore more borrowing, therefore more money next year going into servicing that debt
8:19
He is turning local politics, you know, it's the council that covers the cost of this
8:24
and national politics into his personal circus. And unfortunately, we have to play along
8:30
We have to follow it. We have to comment on it. And now following the election
8:34
when the MPs and reforms should be celebrating, we're now arguing about the lies they've told
8:39
about why he didn't go to the count. He tells us it was police advice
8:43
The police say, no, it wasn't. Then Lee Anderson tells him, oh, he didn't want to go
8:47
because he was going to be humiliated. Richard Tice tells us, oh, we wanted to go, but he was advised to not to
8:52
They can't keep their story straight. So are they deliberately lying to you, or are they just stupid and not able to get their story straight
8:59
Luke, thank you. I'm happy to report the fish and chips are still very good by Clacton Pier. Luke Taylor is Lib Dem MP for Sutton & Cheam, London spokesperson
9:05
I love selling ice cream by Clacton. I always remind you when Jimmy Carr says he used to sell oil
9:11
It's the easiest job in the world. You need oil. If you're by Clacton Pier and you're selling ice cream, do people want ice creams in the hot weather
9:17
Yeah, of course. Thank you, Luke. So you've heard both sides there. I personally think the by-election was a complete charade
9:24
And my contention is that Nigel Farage, who is, I'm not for one moment doubting
9:29
he's a hugely skilled politician. He's someone who for years has navigated and has been able to sort of stay in tune with the public
9:37
I think he's miscalculated this one. I think he looks weaker as a result
9:41
But I'm more than happy to be put right. Let's bring in, as promised, Councillor Alan Amos
9:44
who is the Reform UK group leader on Worcestershire Council. He was previously a Conservative MP as well
9:49
Good morning to you, Alan. Good morning, Henry. Morning. Thank you very much for joining us
9:53
I mean, there's a question I had earlier on. What the hell was the point in the by-election yesterday
10:00
Oh, well, it's very clear. The British establishment is absolutely scared stiff
10:04
of Nigel Farage becoming Prime Minister. And this by-election was designed to show that reform
10:10
will not be intimidated by any devious, desperate attempt, political or otherwise, to interfere with democracy
10:18
The thing is, Henry, the establishment can't beat Nigel Farage politically, we're on top of
10:22
the opinion polls again. So they're trying to defeat him by every other
10:26
dubious means they can come up with. Could you give me an example of how the media is trying to defeat him
10:32
This whole investigation into this £5 million, Nigel Farage has explained the
10:36
situation. So what they want to do, they want to try and force a by-election
10:40
to try and defeat him that way. They've tried and they've failed. So why
10:44
didn't they give up and move on to other things? Well, because
10:48
Is this a leader of a political party getting a £5 million donation? It's a big story, Alan. Well, it is a big story
10:54
But there are lots of other big things going on at the moment. And the public are not actually interested. We spoke about freebies when Keir Starmer was getting suits and glasses
11:01
And we were perfectly happy to talk about that. And then when Nigel Farage gets a £5 million gift, we're not allowed to touch it
11:06
Oh, absolutely. And what happened to Keir Starmer? Absolutely nothing. He took the money
11:10
Not that he needed it. He took the money. There was no parliamentary inquiry
11:14
Why is there a parliamentary inquiry for Nigel Farage But that the point though Alan But Alan that the point I mean there an investigation going on and we don know the outcome of that investigation so why didn we wait when the people
11:27
of Clacton, the good people of Clacton, will have all the facts? Well, simply
11:31
because the parliamentary inquiry is fixed. The committee that's going to make the decision is full of
11:37
everybody. We don't even know it's going to go to the committee yet, Alan. It's still with Daniel Greenberg
11:41
who I hope you'd agree is an independent Standards Commissioner. Well, it's got to
11:45
report to some committees. It's got to report back to some committee of MPs
11:49
Yeah, exactly. And those MPs are all dead against Nigel Farage. I mean, if they
11:53
were so confident of beating Nigel Farage, why didn't they stand in this by-election? They could have shown
11:59
how powerful they were and how unpopular Nigel Farage was. He actually ended
12:03
up getting two-thirds of the vote, a majority of 13,000, on a very high turnout for an August by-election
12:09
where nearly one in two people turned out to vote. That's a very clear mandate
12:14
Yeah, well, it was a very good turnout. You're right. And he certainly increased his vote
12:17
share as well. But I put to you, Councillor Amos, does this whole charade, though
12:24
look like he's in hiding almost? He spoke at Farage Fest. He cancelled a
12:27
press conference. He didn't bother turning up to the Counts. I mean, for
12:31
someone who's won so convincingly, you wouldn't know it. Well, I think
12:35
these are minor details, to be honest. Turning up to the Counts
12:39
When was the last time someone didn't turn up to the Count? I mean, well, Nigel, you know, it's in time to have a party
12:45
Your earlier commentator was talking about complaining that he was having a party. Why the hell shouldn't he
12:50
It's a fantastic victory. But why is he not at the Count? Well, I don't know personally why he wasn't at the Count
12:56
I mean, he had many other things to do, but he won. What do you mean? Well, hold on, Alan
13:01
What do you mean many other things to do? You know, when you won your seat in 1987 in Hexham
13:06
You were there at the Counts, and you were there alongside all of the other candidates
13:11
That is what you do. Come on. Henry, the point is, the voters have spoken
13:16
They gave another 13,000 majority. They know him, they like him. I went down there, and I listened to what people were saying
13:24
And so he's won politically. But what they're trying to do is undermine him through all these other means
13:30
some committees, some inquiry. It's devious, and it's desperate, to be honest with you, utterly desperate
13:35
I mean, they talk about, you know, why have the by-election in the first place
13:39
Nobody talks about the by-election that Burnham caused in Manchester just so he could become Prime Minister
13:44
and the cost of the subsequent Manchester-Marel election, which cost over £1 million
13:50
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody mentions that now, do they? So, you know, so you can't have it both ways
13:55
You can't say there was unnecessary by-election. Burnham did exactly the same thing a month or so earlier and caused the Manchester-Marel election
14:02
That cost over £1 million, Henry. Why don't the left talk about what a waste of money that was
14:08
Can you talk to me about Andrew Neil, the commentator, has called for there to be a pact now between the Reform Party
14:17
and the Conservative Party, your old party? Well, I mean, Andrew may well be talking about that
14:24
Lots of people talk about that. But I would be guided because I trust his judgment
14:28
by what Nigel Farage wants to do. Nigel is a very shrewd political observer of events
14:34
and I will trust his judgment. But the point is... Do you think there should be then, by the sound of it
14:39
No, no, no, no. But at the end of the day, I will go by what the leadership's decision is
14:45
because I'm a law member of reform. But the fact of the matter is that... You must have a view on it
14:48
given you were a Conservative MP. Yes, I know what the Conservatives are like
14:54
And so... Well, that's a no, then. I would urge extreme caution
14:58
getting to bed with the Tories, I have to say. Fair enough. Thanks, Alan
15:01
I appreciate it. Councillor Alan Amos, Reform UK Group Leader. in Worcestershire Council. Thanks very much
15:06
for your time
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