Up next in 10
Andrew Marr unpacks his exclusive Andy Burnham interview with Nick Ferrari. The prime minister-in-waiting has pledged to overhaul taxes impacting Britain's pubs and high streets, telling LBC he will stick by Labour's manifesto pledges if he comes to power. 00:14 Andy Burnham tells Andrew Marr he is 'not indisciplined when it comes to the public finances' and outlines his plans for a 20% cut to business rates for pubs. 02:08 Marr unpacks his exclusive interview 06:48 What did we learn from Andy Burnham's interview? Shelagh Fogarty and LBC's Political Correspondent Bethany Dawson discuss Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #andrewmarr #andyburnham #primeminister #nickferrari #shelaghfogarty #politics #ukpolitics #news #uknews #labourparty #downingstreet #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
As I said at the top of the show, we don't just make the news here, we break the news as well
0:04
And my LBC colleague Andrew Margot, the interview that everybody wanted with the new Makerfield MP
0:09
that means something but boring. More important, Prime Minister in waiting, Andy Burnham. Here's a little of what you heard last night
0:14
I stick by the manifesto and the promises that it made, so let me be absolutely clear about that
0:21
But there is some room within that manifesto for movement on tax
0:26
So if you take business rates, for instance, I believe there is a case for higher business rates on warehouses and the major developments we see on the outskirts of our cities so that we can cut business rates for pubs
0:42
And I've proposed a 20 percent cut and lift some high street businesses out of business rates altogether
0:48
I say some and not all because I think it's important to, if you like, prioritize and reward the businesses that bring social benefit, the businesses that bring people together, the bars, the restaurants, the coffee shops, the hairdressers, because the high street really needs to get more of our attention
1:06
We need to bring life back to the high street. So I'm looking at things where I can make a change
1:13
that answers some of the issues that we see up and down high streets across Britain
1:18
But overall, people can be certain of me, of one thing of me
1:23
I read some of the commentary. I am not indisciplined when it comes to the public finances
1:28
I was in the Treasury. I ran the Department of Health, and we had a very healthy..
1:34
It was tight, but we had a very healthy set of finances
1:38
I've run Greater Manchester, the fastest growing city region in the country, for a decade
1:44
And you can't make it the fastest growing city region in the country, Andrew, without strong business confidence in what you're doing
1:51
This is your message. The finances I've run in Greater Manchester are rock solid
1:55
And from those rock solid public finances come business confidence that has helped us get the growth
2:00
and I actually get frustrated at some of the narrative that people try to put around about me
2:06
My record says otherwise. It was the interview that everyone wanted, but only one journalist got it
2:11
my LBC colleague Andrew Marr, who joins me now, and I am merely an apprentice serving the great master
2:16
Congratulations to you, Andrew. Absolutely thrilled for you, buddy. We learned yesterday that the Keir Starmer administration
2:23
realised they were not well prepared enough to actually take over power
2:26
What did you learn about the level of preparation with Mr Burnham? Well done again, Sport. Morning
2:31
Thank you very much indeed for that. I'm just delighted to hear a bit of Nancy Sinatra on the wireless posting in the morning
2:37
But yeah, no, I'm delighted that he came to LBC for this. Absolutely thrilled
2:42
I think the crucial thing, of course, is that he has so little time to prepare
2:47
Of course, he's been thinking about this for months and perhaps for years. But we are where we are now
2:52
He's been in this little room in Portcullis House in Westminster, the door being hammered minute after minute by people who'd like to be members of his cabinet
3:00
or this or that, bombarding him with requests and suggestions. And in the middle of all of that, he has to work out what his priorities are
3:08
I think it's really interesting. The key question for me was, you know, you've talked about the fiscal rules in the past
3:15
but what about those perhaps unwise promises the Labour Party made on income tax
3:21
VAT, national insurance, at the time of the election? are you, Andy Burnham, bound by them
3:27
And we've got a very clear yes. Now, as you've been reporting, Nick
3:31
that means that there are the taxes which could still go up, but they take longer to come in
3:37
There had been a kind of rumour going around that perhaps the quickest, cleanest, easiest way
3:41
to sort our difficult public finances was a new higher rate of income tax
3:45
or jacking up the mid-rate of income tax by a penny in the pound or whatever
3:50
I think the fact that he has ruled that out is both significant for all of us, of course
3:54
for the country listening but also for Labour because I think had he broken the manifesto on that then calls for a very early general election would have been irresistible There was no shortage of newslines emanating from it
4:06
and reminding everyone, of course, you were an editor of a newspaper as well, what of the line about him not being prepared for the defence budget
4:13
and this missing £4-5 billion? Well, we all wondered about that when it came out
4:18
We knew that he had been briefed that he'd read the defence investment plan
4:23
just before it had been published, and he arrived in my studio clutching a copy of it
4:27
and sort of waving it around. So he was still going through it, I guess. But this business of
4:34
here's all the stuff we're going to spend the money on, says Keir Starman's government. Here are the missiles and the helicopters and the rest of it
4:40
But if you look at the detail, the actual way of paying for it has been left to Andy Burnham
4:45
So he's going to have a very, very hard settlement. I think it's a lot more than 4.7 billion, by the way
4:51
which is what the press have been reporting, because if you go through the list, there's lots of other things that haven't yet been properly costed
4:57
We're going to get money out of this budget or that budget, but the hard yards of exactly what's going to be cut
5:02
haven't yet been announced and will be left for the new Prime Minister
5:06
Over to you, Mr Burnham. And lastly, on that point, as you stalk the corridors of power
5:12
what do you understand to be the relationship between the two teams? The team that is currently in position
5:17
and the team that is limbering up to take over in two weeks and a bit or whenever it might be
5:21
Well, this is an unfashionable thing to say, and some people might not believe me
5:25
but I think it's relatively grown up. I think Burnham's team, still quite small, still quite new, many of them
5:31
are being brought into Whitehall. The current Cabinet Secretary, Antonio Romeo, and the senior civil servants are talking to them
5:40
There are handover talks going on the whole time. It's not in anybody's interests for this to be chaotic
5:45
because, Nick, we always used to say the Labour Party was rubbish at trying to move from one leader to another
5:50
It was all mayhem and chaos. Compared to some of the transitions we saw
5:55
in the last few years of the Conservative government, this has been almost unearly smooth
6:00
So far, so far, there's plenty of time to go. Sorry, before I let you go, Ed Balls for number 11, Andrew
6:08
Well, I would be very, very surprised. Yeah, it's a rumour going around. I don't know if you'd heard it, but that's one rumour
6:13
No, I've heard it and read it. I haven't spoken to him, but I think there's a stronger likelihood of David Miliband
6:21
coming in via the House of Lords, perhaps to be the next Foreign Secretary. But I think there's lots of people inside the Commons now
6:28
elected MPs, many of them women, who want those big jobs. And I think to bring in too many of the old boys team
6:34
for the old days via the House of Lords would cause Andy Burnham more problems than it would solve
6:39
Andrew, well done, Scoop. Reflect on your great get through the course of the weekend and enjoy it
6:44
Andrew Marr, my LBC colleague, landing the big interview. Bethany Jolson is here with me, LBC's political correspondent
6:51
who I'm sure has had that interview more than once, as I have as well. I mean, it's worth really listening to, isn't it
6:57
Because although some of it was stuff we'd heard before in the speech on Monday
7:03
there was some new stuff there on tax. There was a strong commitment to the defence plan, and perhaps adding to it, we'll see
7:09
but he he's the idea that he hasn't decided who his top very top team are yet I'm not sure I'm
7:17
buying that well it's interesting because he specifically said he doesn't know who's in
7:21
what job yet but in terms of who might be at the table and now he's playing a game of musical chairs
7:27
you know that is something that we can expect we already know who's very very close to Andy Burnham
7:33
in terms of Louise Midgley and sorry Louise Hagen and Elise Midgley did a did a combo there
7:39
And they are two Labour MPs that were really running his campaign in Makerfield. We know
7:43
they're incredibly close to him. We know, you know, the fact that he has been in the Labour
7:48
Party for a long time and he's been an MP before, we know who he's friendly with. But
7:53
maybe in terms of sort of who gets to wear what badge that separate But you right he did cover some new things We covered a lot of ground in our 18 interview And like his speech on Monday the Makerfield MP didn mainly focus on the economy
8:08
He told Andrew Marr that he will stick to Labour's 2024 manifesto
8:12
which promised no rises in VAT, in income tax or national insurance
8:17
But Andy Burnham did say that there was some wiggle room on business rates
8:21
He said he would like to raise these in some places, specifically on warehouses and then lower them or even completely remove them for some high street
8:29
businesses he also said that he wants to move some public services into public control saying
8:35
that he won't make and said that he won't make crude cuts to welfare he committed to funding the
8:40
five billion pound black hole in defense that was left by keir starmer but did say that he didn't
8:45
know about this gap until the defense investment plan was published i wasn't in all the meetings
8:50
It was a very polite but quite pointed. Yes, and this was something that journalists were really trying to understand
8:59
since the Defence Investment Plan was published. What did Andy Burnham know and not know
9:04
And the Number 10 team were keeping very tight-lipped on it and LBC, of course, got to the bottom of it in this interview
9:12
Now, all of those announcements from Andy Burnham were really interesting but there were just still so many questions to lob at the future Prime Minister
9:19
on his announcement that he won't make huge welfare cuts. Does that mean none at all
9:25
On taking public utilities into public control, does that mean a sort of full re-nationalisation
9:31
or does that mean something more light to touch? He, of course, also spoke about his number 10 north idea
9:37
for a Downing Street 2.0 in Manchester. But how's that going to work
9:43
When does he want that in place? Who is going to be there? What operations are going to be out of it
9:47
How much is it going to cost? And he did say he will go there. But again, we'll see how that pans out in reality
9:54
And then there's the question of how often, of why, of what jobs, of who else is going to have to go up
9:59
There are, you know, there are huge questions. It's not, it is not just sort of getting the keys to a new office, you know, kind of rewiring the state
10:07
I think it's a good idea, but I think it will definitely have to wash its own face
10:12
because it will be scrutinised to the hilt as to what's being spent on it
10:17
who's doing what in it, what's the progress, what are the outcomes. I mean, we're not going to ignore that, are we
10:22
No, and there is just the true question of how is he going to do it
10:26
There were some cabinet office functions that the current government wanted to move down the road
10:31
and they weren't able to get it to happen just because of red tape and bureaucracy
10:35
how is Andy Burnham going to move huge functions of number 10 up north
10:40
That's not me saying that it's bad. It is just a fundamental question of how
10:44
It's not a straightforward prospect. It's not straightforward. On the welfare thing you raised there
10:50
whenever he talks about welfare cuts or bringing down the welfare bill, he links it with work, doesn't he, and changing the world of work
10:57
particularly for needs, young people out of work or educational training. um again that's all good he's not the first person to do that alan milburn was doing it when
11:07
he presented the first part of his report but these things take time to develop those connections
11:13
that between the young people and the world of work and those on benefits and the world of work
11:19
they take time don't they to kick in that's not going to be an immediate relief to that whopping
11:23
great 330 billion pound welfare bill no i mean in the same way that the number 10 north idea is
11:29
not getting a pair of keys to an office. This is not sort of telling, you know, young people to get
11:35
a job and then they do it. He did speak quite extensively about ideas to reform the education
11:40
system to make it easier for young people to go from school to work and to sort of rely less on
11:48
the university. Have a clear pathway. Have a clear pathway. Get work placement guarantees for young
11:54
people who leave school Again those are ideas that a lot of people within the Labour Party would really support But just how it going to happen isn clear And he says he wants to broaden politics and reach out and be as inclusive as he can with people
12:12
And yet all of many of the names that we're hearing, and again, this could just be, you know
12:18
Westminster gossip, who knows? But all of the names that are thrown out are mostly men
12:22
and mostly from previous governments from the Blair era going back names like Milburn, Ed Balls
12:29
both Miliband brothers I mean one already in government but the Labour women are going to
12:35
be watching this very closely aren't they something we were talking about the other day. Yeah I mean the Labour Women's Parliamentary Labour Party are really pushing Andy Burnham to
12:44
include women at a very high degree throughout his government not just in the ministerial level
12:49
but in number 10 and it's quite difficult for them to read all of these briefings as you say
12:54
uh alan milburn david miliband ed ball's coming back number one mps uh regardless of gender
13:01
regardless of sort of political affiliation are saying are we not good enough why are you bringing
13:06
back people rather than looking to the 400 labor mps it's not like um andy burnham is in short
13:13
supply here but then there is this question of why are they all men of the same political
13:18
kind of affiliation, grouping, thinking. And is that actually doing politics in a new, fresh way
13:26
None of those names have come out of his mouth. Well, they have, but not necessarily with a view to giving them jobs
13:32
But he praises Alan Milburn's report a lot, doesn't he, in the three major times we've heard him speak about
13:36
He did. And we should say that Andy Burnham and his team have really, really pressed against these briefings
13:42
of who is going to be in cabinet. He spoke about being quite annoyed by them yesterday
13:45
so these are not necessarily coming from Andy Burnham directly as you say he really praises
13:51
Alan Milburn who of course has been working on a huge report into NEETS uh into these young people
13:56
who are not in education uh or training uh he's doing good work the government have of course
14:02
brought him in to do that but whether or not Andy Burnham is going to bring him in so that he can do
14:07
that work not just you know writing a report uh but to deliver it yeah but he comes back Alan
14:13
Milburn comes back with a second report in the autumn, doesn't he, with the recommendations in it. So good timing, I suppose
14:18
Good timing. But I mean, I think one thing that's interesting when I've spoken to Labour MPs today about the interview
14:23
of course, which they have all watched from LBC, they have all, I haven't heard complaints yet
14:30
I haven't heard anybody say that they didn't enjoy the interview or they thought that anything that Andy Burnham pitched was bad
14:36
What I have been hearing is them essentially saying, he's just put forward the manifesto that we all got elected on
14:42
Again, that's not a complaint by them, but it's to say it's not new
14:47
And then, of course, the follow up is, I like it, but I don't know how he's going to do it
14:53
And I think there is this risk that Andy Burnham is taking that in thinking that he's going to walk into sort of open armed MPs who, you know, sort of rolling out the red carpet for him
15:04
He's going to face a lot of really harsh scrutiny because they feel, like a lot of the public does
15:11
that they actually can't trust politicians to do what they say. Which he said in the interview
15:16
I mean, I think he's long enough in the tooth to know that reality will bite, isn't he
15:20
Yeah, this is not a sort of fluffy-tailed, starry-eyed person coming in thinking that it's all paved with gold
15:27
But he is talking a big talk. And he also should know, and of course does know
15:34
that it's not he doesn't even have a full term to deliver this he has three years to try and get
15:39
some of this over the line and as we've seen from Keir Starmer's government this is not stuff that
15:44
happens quickly and they have an impatient population here you have an incredibly impatient
15:48
population and you have an incredibly slow kind of operation and state around you so he is going
15:54
to have to find ways to really put his foot on the gas. Bethany thank you Bethany Jorson LBC's
15:58
political correspondents
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