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John Healey has resigned as defence secretary, taking aim at the Treasury and the Prime Minister over the government's funding of Britain's armed forces. In a damning letter to the Prime Minister, posted to X on Thursday, Mr Healey noted he was left with "no option" but to step down from the role. The letter criticised Sir Keir Starmer’s unwillingness to commit enough resources to defence, highlighting the growing resources required amid the Iran war, threats from Russia in the High North, and escalation in the Ukraine conflict. 00:00 John Healey resigns as Defence Secretary 01:00 LBC’s Political Editor Natasha Clark joins Simon Marks 01:44 Healey’s resignation letter says Starmer’s decisions are ‘could make the country less safe’ 02:33 Deputy Prime Minister David Lammy responds to Healey’s resignation 03:19 Who will be the next Defence Secretary? 05:40 Nigel Farage: Healey was absolutely right to resign 06:20 Kemi Badenoch is ‘not surprised’ that Healey resigned 07:00 Is this the straw that breaks Keir Starmer’s back? 07:40 Starmer is ‘finding it difficult’ to appoint his replacement 09:32 Sir David Lidington, former Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and de-facto Deputy Prime Minister, says Healey ‘must have been pushed to the absolute limits’ Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #simonmarks #johnhealey #resignation #ukpolitics #debate #uknews #news #politics #keirstarmer #nigelfarage #kemibadenoch #davidlammy #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
Coming to you live today from our studios in Westminster, ground zero for the big story of the day
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the resignation of Defence Secretary John Healy, an absolute stunner. Mr. Healy described today as
0:14
one of the most loyal Labour men for over 30 years. The last straw for him arrived on his
0:21
plate on Monday when he says he was given a first glimpse of the Prime Minister's
0:26
defence investment plan and found it woefully lacking. His resignation letter is a staggering
0:33
excoriation of the Prime Minister. His leadership and the security risks to the UK that Mr Healy
0:40
says are now inevitable as a result of the government's plan. We're going to take your
0:46
calls on Mr Healy's dramatic departure from the Cabinet after the news at five this afternoon
0:52
But we wanted to begin today with all the latest developments, given the gravity of the situation
0:58
And LBC's political editor, Natasha Clark, joins me in the studio now
1:02
Natasha, this was not seen coming, right? No, absolutely not. This has been such a dramatic day in Westminster
1:09
And we were all gearing up for the potential publication, Simon, of what's called the Defence Investment Plan
1:14
It was due to potentially come as early as today. We were hearing that a visit with the Prime Minister and John Healy himself was being planned for just a few hours time tomorrow
1:23
where they were due to unveil new funding for drones. But just after 12 o'clock today, we got this devastating resignation letter in from John Healy
1:31
He posted it on his social media account with some really withering statements
1:36
And I think that really the worst of it is where he basically attacks the Treasury and attacks the Prime Minister
1:43
saying they have been unable and unwilling to commit the resources that the nation needs
1:48
to defend the country at this time of rising threats. And he also says that without the defence investment plan that he says meets the moment in this way
1:58
he is being forced to make decisions that will reduce the readiness of our armed forces
2:02
and increase the risk to personnel out on operations right now and could even make the country less safe
2:08
an absolutely damning and withering assessment of Sikir Starmer's defence plans. Now, we have heard from Number 10 this afternoon
2:17
They have said that they do believe the defence investment plan is the right one
2:20
We have not yet had, however, an exchange of letters between himself and the Prime Minister
2:26
But in the last few minutes, our colleague Agi Shombey has been speaking to the Deputy Prime Minister, David Lammy
2:31
who gave us his reaction. I'm very sad to see John resign
2:36
He's a great, great friend and colleague, and I think was an exceptional defence secretary under John and the prime minister
2:47
Our commitment to Ukraine has been sacrosanct. Defence spending is now higher than every single year of the Conservatives previously in power
2:59
Two hundred and seventy billion we will be spending by the end of the next parliament
3:05
and there are contracts in Barrow on the Clyde, 1,400 through the door that John Healy
3:11
and the Prime Minister have delivered. We will be coming forward with a defence investment plan
3:16
before the NATO conference. And Simon, no news yet on who may be the replacement for Mr Healy
3:23
We hear today that Al Khan, one of the defence ministers, is also very concerned about the current defence spending plans
3:29
We've also, of course, heard reaction from all of the political party leaders, Nigel Farage, Tory leader Kemi Badenoch
3:34
saying Keir Starmer's leadership is falling apart. Ed Davies says this needs to be a wake-up call
3:39
for Keir Starmer and Andy Burnham as well We had nothing from the possible leadership candidate Mr Burnham at all again today So everyone eyes on exactly what happens next and whether this as many people in government are suggesting Simon actually speeds up the departure of the Prime Minister
3:53
And waiting to see the letter that Sakhir Starmer writes back to John Healy because they're clearly
3:58
sitting there trying to craft it at number 10. Absolutely. And obviously we heard that this
4:03
defence investment plan was planned and sort of signed out on Monday. And that is when John Healy
4:08
saw it and basically said, I can't accept this £13 billion extra for defence
4:14
We know that armed forces chiefs have been asking for as much as £28 billion
4:18
So there is something that's going to have to give here. It's reported, and I've heard from my sources in the Treasury
4:23
that it does mean cuts to every single government department. We don't exactly know how big the axe will fall
4:29
but there is clearly behind the scenes a big, big rouse, Simon, at the heart of government
4:32
John Healy has now fallen on his sword today, and we all wait with bated breath to see what the Prime Minister says next
4:38
Extraordinary developments, John Healy, and a resignation that came via a letter that explicitly argues the Prime Minister is making the country less safe than it needs to be
4:50
excoriating the Prime Minister's leadership. Mr Healy, a widely respected figure in the Labour Party for more than three decades
4:58
writes that Sir Keir Starmer has been unable and the Treasury has been unwilling
5:03
to commit the resources that the nation needs to defend the country at this time of rising threats
5:10
He said he had no other option but to resign because he was about to be forced to make the country less secure
5:17
Seven days before the Makerfield by-election, this is a clearly massive potential catastrophe for No. 10, coming as it does after the resignation of Wes Streeting as Health Secretary less than one month ago
5:33
Reform UK leader Nigel Farage gave his reaction to the news to my LBC colleague Nick Ferrari
5:40
Principled resignation, and he's absolutely right to have done so. He wanted 3% to be spent on defence by 2030
5:48
something by the way that we campaigned for in the last manifesto. It makes sense to get to that target by then
5:54
The Prime Minister didn't match it by half, and so John Healy is gone
5:59
And what his message says is that the Prime Minister is not prioritising the defence of the realm
6:07
And Conservative leader and leader of the opposition, Kemi Badenoch told reporters John Healy's resignation shows that she was right all along
6:14
to push the Prime Minister on defence spending, as she did only yesterday at Prime Minister's
6:19
questions. I am not surprised. John Healy has done the honourable thing. Yesterday
6:26
I raised the issue of the defence investment plan and the Prime Minister exposed the fact that he
6:31
was not going to put money into defence to the amount that was required. And I'm sure John Healy
6:37
sat there listening to the Prime Minister tell me that he was increasing defence funding when he is
6:42
not. He has done the honourable thing and resigned. I am glad that he agrees with me that we need to
6:48
put more money into defence. But what is shocking is what he's written in his letter, where he says
6:53
that the Prime Minister is making the country less safe and putting our troops at risk at a time of
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increasing threats. Well, this hour, your views on Mr Healy's decision to quit. Is this the straw
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that breaks Sakhir Starmer's prime ministerial back? If you're in the military or if you have family serving in the military
7:11
do you worry that you're being placed in increasing jeopardy by insufficient expenditure on defence
7:17
And more broadly, what do you all make of John Healy's argument
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that Sakhir Starmer is creating a set of circumstances in which this country will be less secure You can call me at 0345 Joining me once again LBC political editor Natasha Clark Natasha you have been chasing and tracking all the reaction
7:37
to what's been taking place over the last few hours, and there is more of it. Yes, that's right, Simon
7:42
And we are getting reaction all afternoon from MPs paying tributes to John Healy and saying how much they thought
7:48
he was a fantastic man for the job and that he'd really fought for things like Ukraine
7:52
and other funding settlements, including for armed forces, including their upgrades to military housing
7:58
That was something that he had a particular passion for. But Simon, it's now five o'clock and the Defence Secretary resigned at 12 o'clock
8:07
So I think we can now conclude, because of the fact that we don't have a Defence Secretary in place
8:11
that Keir Starmer is today finding it difficult to appoint his replacement
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Now, we don't have any letters as well between Sir Keir Starmer and John Healy
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Usually what happens when someone resigns is one of them says something and resigns
8:23
They hand in their letter. And then the other one, you know, the prime minister writes back with lots of lovely platitudes about their timers in cabinet and what they've achieved
8:31
And thank you so much for the job. We've had none of that today. So there are sources saying that Darren Jones, the prime minister's chief, chief secretary to the prime minister, is involved in these talks
8:40
And there's been some chatter that potentially he wants that top job of defence secretary
8:44
I spoke to sources close to him just a few minutes ago. He said, I don't think it will be Darren
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And he is obviously involved in those talks as he's closed to the prime minister. But I don't think it's going to be him
8:53
Another name being floated is Jan Jarvis. He is the security minister
8:57
Some sources have suggested to me that that is an option. However, others have suggested that he actually rejected the job
9:03
which obviously does sort of make sense in the fact that we have not yet seen a replacement for Mr. Healy
9:08
because clearly there is a big question for whoever does take over from them
9:12
whether the Treasury reopen the idea of this defence investment plan again
9:16
whether they want to go back to the plan and look about whether it is enough. Or, as Number 10 suggested earlier, they say this is enough money
9:23
We're going to plough ahead with it no matter what. We will release it before the NATO summit
9:27
And that is exactly what I think at the moment Number 10 are desperately trying to do
9:32
So, David, thanks very much indeed for being on the programme this afternoon
9:36
Were you surprised by the decision that John Healy has taken to walk
9:41
Good afternoon. Yes, in one sense, yes, because he didn't give any warning of it
9:47
And John Healy, he's not a man given to grandstanding. He's a natural loyalist, you know, staunch Labour man through and through
9:55
but also somebody who's genuinely respected across parties in the House of Commons
9:59
And I've, you know, listened to John Healy praise Conservative Defence Secretaries who preceded him
10:07
And I've listened to Conservative spokesmen praise John Healy. There is genuine respect for the guy and he's not somebody who goes briefing against Keir Starmer
10:17
So he must have been pushed to the absolute limit. And what I think is so devastating is about his resignation letter is that it not only says that your decisions
10:30
Prime Minister, mean that national security is not being adequately protected and the troops on deployment could be put in greater danger
10:39
But he also says you are not able to impose your will on the government despite having pledged to put defence as your number one priority
10:50
And I think it's that loss of authority by the prime minister that is very telling
10:57
We know that the Treasury doesn't have confidence in the Ministry of Defence to procure military equipment efficiently
11:05
efficiently And in fairness there are plenty of criticisms that can be made of the Ministry of Defence going back over many years in many different governments But having said that the threat we face from Russia coupled with the United States
11:21
you know, withdrawing more from Europe, looking to the Pacific, looking to its own interests
11:26
mean that we have to step up. And the famous door of 10 Downing Street
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the job title that is actually on the door is First Lord of the Treasury
11:37
I mean, the prime minister is the ultimate boss of the Treasury and therefore the Chancellor of the Exchequer
11:43
And, you know, it is within his power to say to the Chancellor, sorry, I am overriding you
11:49
And if you can't take my decision, then sorry, you have to go
11:54
But Keir Starmer decided not to do that. I'm afraid the conclusion you come to
11:57
I mean, Keir Starmer, my experience, he's a decent, honourable man, but he's not up to the job
12:01
And I think John Healy's resignation letter demonstrates that. There's one line in that letter that stuck out to me that I'm curious about
12:08
He indicates that Monday was the first time that he had seen the defence investment plan
12:16
How's that possible? I find that quite shocking, genuinely shocking, because there were clearly difficult decisions
12:28
The government is rather trapped by its own unwise election manifesto pledges on taxation and by its refusal to tackle the spending on benefits
12:42
And therefore, there's less money to spend. But then if you've got difficult decisions, the minister in charge of defence, you have to have sitting around the table
12:53
But you get the idea this was being cooked up on the back of an envelope by the PM and the Chancellor of the Exchequer and a couple of their political advisers
13:02
But without the defence secretary even being there, I mean, that is inexcusable. That really is deeply shocking
13:08
Staggering. And can I ask you the question I'm asking listeners this hour? Is this the beginning of the end? I mean, you could argue it's not the beginning
13:15
Is this the next page turn in the end of Sir Keir Starmer's premiership
13:20
Oh, I think Keir Starmer is on his way out. I mean, when I've talked to Labour politicians in recent weeks, I've not found anybody who thinks he's going to last beyond the autumn at the very latest
13:36
And I think that these events today will have accelerated the day of his departure
13:40
If Andy Burnham wins the Make-A-Field by-election, then I would expect the pressure within the Labour Party for the Prime Minister to move on to be overwhelming
13:48
And this is much more important than the fate of an individual prime minister or the cabinet
13:56
What I am finding in conversation is our allies who have been looking to the UK as one of the big players in the defence of Europe are now losing confidence
14:07
They're saying, well, we're listening, we're hearing the talk, we're hearing the pledges. But what are you actually doing about this
14:13
And I've heard from some defence companies saying we're having to reconsider whether we want to make significant investments in the United Kingdom now because we're not so certain that these promises of extra defence spending, the procurement of new equipment, the drones, the unmanned vessels, the unmanned aircraft and so on, are going to be delivered in practice
14:36
And so the damage to our economic interests and to our international reputation amongst allies is potentially very serious indeed
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So the government needs to grip this. And if the Labour Party thinks, as I think is right, that they need to get rid of the current prime minister, they need to get on with this quickly
14:54
So, David, I'm enormously grateful to you for your time this afternoon. Thank you so much for joining us on the programme
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