Up next in 10
“If she can’t get the jab… who can?” Abigail is 40-stone and says she’s trapped inside her own home, but the NHS says she still doesn’t qualify for weight loss medication like Ozempic or WeGovy. As new “fat jabs” transform millions of lives, Tom Swarbrick asks: who should actually get them? 00:00 | Abigail’s story 03:45 | Public reaction & backlash 05:32 | Connor: “I was 44 stone, it’s hell” 09:05 | Amanda: “they just say: go for a walk” 12:20 | John went to Turkey to get a surgery 14:25 | Sharon: “where does the line get drawn?” 16:37 | Margaret: “get sicker then we’ll help you” 19:38 | Pharmacist admits he “bent the rules” 22:26 | Marianne describes PCOS & weight gain 24:28 | Attila on weight loss jabs Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #tomswarbrick #glp1 #LBC #glp1medication #ozempic #news #uknews #debate #wegovy LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
When you're at home, right, and you've got nothing to do or talk to or be alone or whatever
0:06
I hate it. I hate it. It's like an addiction. It's like you can't stop it even though you know
0:10
it's killing you. You know it's killing you. It's like you can't stop it. And I want to be
0:16
put somewhere, but they won't do that. So why won't they fund the GOP? They're not funding that
0:21
They're not funding it. They don't want to help you. That's what it is. I mean, I wish..
0:26
Well, they won't even... You know what I mean? It's just mad. That's our Abigail speaking to Alex Taylor-Brown when we went to meet her after she rang this show a couple of months back when we first started talking about the prescription of Maljaro
0:38
And that is, I mean, extremely distressing, isn't it? And whatever you think about the way in which people get to that size, and Abigail said it herself, which is why I give her such credit for speaking to us in the first place
0:56
Not an easy thing to talk about. So, Abigail, and I know you listen, thank you for giving us your time in speaking about it
1:04
As Abigail acknowledged there, she knows she put herself in this position and takes responsibility for it
1:10
But what are we doing if there is a, it's not a miracle, nothing's a miracle, but there's a drug that is shown to help people reduce, suppress the appetite that is driving them to put themselves in positions where this poor woman has not left her home in years because of the size that she is
1:28
and she's not getting it on the NHS. That's what it's there for, isn't it
1:33
I mean, yes, there are comorbidities and yes, there are criteria and yes, it needs to be supervised
1:37
and all the rest of it, all that stuff. But my God, if you cannot get the weight loss jab
1:43
to a woman who is at one stage 42 stone, then I don't know who's getting it
1:51
if I'm honest with you. We put this to the Department of Health
1:54
They say obesity drugs can greatly benefit those in real need, but they are licensed prescription only medicines and should only be used by people who are eligible under medical supervision
2:03
We are determined to bring revolutionary modern treatments to everyone who needs them, not just those who can afford to pay as we tackle obesity
2:10
Well, great. That's great. I would start with Abigail, please. You've heard the impact of this weight on her life
2:19
yes self-inflicted yes she says as a result of lots of things that were going on in her life
2:24
no not a position that she wants to be in wishes she could get out of there's the door to get out
2:29
and she's not allowed through it and i don't understand why because of there are criteria
2:35
around three of the four comorbidities that are also needed in order to get to get it on
2:40
prescription i mean do you do you understand the rationale here i i can't see it if i'm honest 03456060973
2:50
here's Helen in Manchester Tom I am sitting here in tears for Abigail if she doesn't qualify for NHS fat jabs
2:56
who does? she is the exact person whose life could be transformed
3:00
I agree and we can have the row about well is this not
3:06
allowing people who put themselves in the position a way out through your money
3:10
well yes maybe but what are we meant to do? just leave them there
3:14
let them rot as abigail described if you are trying to get maljaro on prescription how difficult
3:22
or otherwise has that process been and do you think it is right the people in this position
3:27
hugely overweight morbidly obese are nevertheless refused prescription of this drug because they
3:36
haven't got you know cardiovascular disease or type 2 diabetes or sleep apnea just give it to
3:41
the people who are morbidly obese would be my starting point no massive reaction to what we
3:47
just played you from abigail our regular caller regular listener um who gave us a ring some months
3:53
ago now to explain her situation we went to go and see her uh at her home this poor woman is
3:59
40 stone and does not qualify for nhs prescription of maljaro or glp1 whatever form that's going to
4:08
come in. Doesn't qualify. Doesn't have the necessary comorbidities. I think that's an
4:12
absolute disgrace because this is the drug that has helped so many millions of people
4:17
control their appetite and therefore their weight. This would be life-giving for somebody
4:21
in Abigail's situation, which as you heard is completely tragic. But as she said, she
4:27
understands it was her responsibility. That doesn't wash with Claire. Tom, I have to go
4:33
to the gym five nights a week. I also have no life, but it's to stay healthy, not to
4:37
become a burden on society. No, sorry, the NHS is not there to rectify other people's gluttony
4:42
and selfishness. You will not change my mind. I do not care, says Claire. Physical activity is one
4:47
of the best things you can do for your mental health. Claire, it is. By the way, you don't
4:50
have to go to the gym five nights a week in the same way that you don't have to eat to the point
4:57
where your weight balloons and you put yourself in very dangerous health conditions. You don't
5:02
have to do any of those things. But we help people who get themselves in difficult positions
5:07
That's what the NHS is there for. It's based on need, not finances
5:12
And I think the need is so great in this particular case, and in cases like it
5:19
that it should be prescribed to people. Connor's a new caller in Luton
5:23
Connor. Hello. Sir, your thoughts on this? Well, I think that's nonsense
5:29
because I had a gastric sleeve on the NHS. I was 44 stone, and it saved my life
5:35
I'm 15 stone. but my surgeon did tell me that the weight loss jab is no good because once you stop that
5:42
your hunger comes back and you're never going to lose more than 30 percent of your excess over
5:49
like your weight that you're over there is definitely an issue with people putting the
5:54
weight back on once they've come off the jabs you're absolutely right sir and so in your um
5:59
your experience, your surgery provided you the way out of being so big
6:05
I feel like when you get to a certain point where you're over a certain weight
6:10
you're immobile so how are you going to exercise, how are you
6:16
going to walk it's like a spiral where there's no way out of it
6:21
can I ask you something Conor and I don't mean to get too personal too quickly no I'm not
6:24
that's very good for you what's being 44 stone like? Because that's..
6:32
Oh, hell. Yeah. It's horrible. People look at you in the street people instantly think look at him fat he just lazy he But they don understand that other health conditions could make you not able to exercise
6:48
which then, but not exercising if you're eating, even if you're eating, say, 5,000 calories a day..
6:55
5,000 calories a day? Yeah, if you're eating that, I'm saying, if you're eating that and not exercising at all..
7:01
Was that probably in the ballpark of what you were eating a day? Oh, yeah, I was eating probably 10,000 calories a day
7:07
I'm addicted to food now, even now. It's an addiction. 10,000 calories a day is three times..
7:16
It sounds like a lot, but if you eat a chocolate bar
7:20
that's 360 calories. Yeah, yeah. If you eat 10,000 calories of good quality food
7:26
obviously that's a lot of food, but if you're eating 10,000 calories of rubbish food
7:30
it's not a lot of food in the grand scheme of things. Yeah. It's certainly not a lot of good food
7:35
Not a lot of good food. It's not a lot of waiting food, if that makes sense
7:39
Yeah. And presumably, Connor, your gastric sleeve was done on the NHS
7:45
No, I paid private. Oh, did you? Oh, well done. And you paid private because the NHS wouldn't offer you the operation
7:49
or it was just quicker to do it privately? I'll be honest, the NHS offered me, they put me on the waiting list
7:54
but I was on the waiting list for three years. If I had waited another three years to be assessed
7:59
I probably wouldn't have been there, I'll be honest. I've got a stage for heart failure. I've been discharged for it now
8:04
but that's only because of the weight loss. Do you think that people who are in your position now
8:11
deserve access to a drug via the NHS that everyone else is paying for
8:17
Of course I do. The NHS are paying millions a year for people who are depressed
8:22
And depression is caused by... A lot of depression is caused by being overweight. So if they could maybe save money on them drugs
8:29
by giving them that drug... Some people would say that the depression is not their fault. Depression happens
8:35
It's an illness. Being overweight is a choice, some people argue, like Claire in Burnley
8:40
Yeah, I could say that it's a choice, yeah. I fully understand that because I could say it was my choice
8:47
But sometimes, like I said, there's no way out, is there? Once you're a certain size, it's hard to get up even to walk around and you're immobile
8:56
Connor, I really appreciate the call. Good on you. Well done. Thank you very much indeed for the call
9:02
03456060973 is the number to Barnis and Amanda. And you call her to the show. Hi, Amanda. Hello
9:07
Your thoughts on what you've been hearing? I listened to the lady that says she was 40 stone
9:14
I can relate to her because I've been trying to get Monjuri from the doctor
9:19
I have osteoarthritis, which has slowly got worse. and being diagnosed in more places like my ankles, my legs, my knees
9:30
So it's very hard for me to exercise and slowly I've gained quite a lot of weight
9:36
I had to stop working because it was too much. The pain was too much and, you know, I was deteriorating
9:44
So trying to do that, I've now gone sort of forward to get bariatric surgery
9:51
but I have to lose X amount. And asking the doctor, because I don't meet the criteria
10:00
but my body mass is over 40. So your BMI is over 40
10:06
Yeah, you think they would give you, like, just some of it to help you lose some of the weight that you need to lose
10:14
And they say go for a walk. But how can I do that? Because I can't walk far
10:21
And I can't exercise because it's all on my feet, which is painful
10:27
I mean, I've asked for a roll later so I can do a little bit of walking
10:31
I can sit down and so I'm trying to help myself. But it's not because, like, you sit and eat and eat and eat
10:38
And, you know, people look at you and, you know, people have health conditions and they shouldn't, you know, label people as just, oh, I bet she ate all the pie
10:51
and, you know, it's not nice for people. I don't like this
10:55
I've worked all my life and having to stop work dipped me into, like, a proper depression
11:01
And you stopped work because of your weight? No, because of the osteoarthritis
11:07
Oh, I see. That was a by-product of being the size you were
11:12
Sorry? That was a by-product of the weight. Yeah, I've just gained weight since having this
11:17
as it's got more painful and it's harder to move around. Amanda, what have you been told then about getting this on the NHS
11:26
Even though your body mass index is above 40, which is one of the eligibility tests
11:30
you don't have high blood pressure or obstructive sleep apnea or cardiovascular disease or type 2 diabetes, so you can't get it
11:36
So I'm not in the criteria, basically. See, again, that to me is crazy
11:42
And I'm 25 stone. Yeah, crazy. I mean, that's, you know, you should be prime candidate
11:51
Abigail, you know, you should be prime candidates to access this drug
11:56
Yeah, even just to get some of the weight off to start
12:00
I can move around a bit better because I'm down to have the surgery
12:04
which I'm apprehensive because I don't really want to have it at my age now
12:11
but I don't have a choice now, so... Yeah, well, particularly if the drug's not available and you can't afford it
12:17
which is the other issue people find, of course. Amanda, appreciate the call. Thank you. John's in Deeside in North Wales. John
12:23
Hi, Tom. First time caller, mate. Sir, welcome to the show. Thank you. Yeah, but what it is, is I mean, I was 21 stone
12:31
I've had a gastric sleeve, which is the best thing I've ever done
12:35
I'm now 13 stone eight. I've got my health back. I think I've got my family back and things like that
12:42
Wow. Best thing I ever did. So, and presumably that was done here or abroad
12:50
No, I went to Turkey. You went to Turkey, right. Yes. The company I went through was a British company
12:57
but based in Turkey. And you can Google it. You can Google the surgeon, the hospital
13:05
And this changed your life, John? You paid for it? It changed your life? You got back up and running
13:10
Yes. What do you make then of the NHS prescription of Mount Jaro for people
13:15
It works for some people It doesn work for everybody But I mean I didn try it Well I didn want to try it to be fair But then I didn qualify for the gastric sleeve on the NHS neither so Really
13:31
Yeah, so I just went, you know, for myself and, as I say, like, get my health back
13:37
So do you think more people should be made eligible for the jab on the NHS or not
13:47
I don't know because I've not tried it myself so I wouldn't want to comment on that
13:52
because as I said I've not done it myself but as I said I went down the
13:56
gastric sleeve and that's worked for me even that doesn't work for everybody
14:01
no no no listen it's not to say that it's going to work all the time for everyone that's why it's not a miracle
14:05
but it clearly does work in bringing people's weight down because that's why so many people are on it
14:10
it just strikes me that the people who have the most to lose the most weight to lose
14:14
should probably be at the top of the list for getting it even if they don't have obstructive sleep apnea or cardiovascular disease forget it
14:21
just get get the weight off them i do feel for her i really do and it's horrible but tom i've got to
14:28
tell you regular surgeries i can't get a surgery i'm having to pay 45 000 pounds for an illness
14:36
that's not my fault because no one asked for illness we rank the uk ranks as i think the fifth
14:42
lowest country for cancer care. There's got to be a limit of what the NHS can do. We can't
14:49
afford more taxes. It's not practical or possible. It just doesn't work. Where are we taking the money from
14:55
How many more people have to self-fund surgeries for illnesses that they've never asked for
15:02
Would that include weight gain to the extent that you're 40 stone
15:09
Do you know what? I don't know where the line is honestly thankfully i've never been in that position and perhaps it's making it makes me
15:15
selfish because i am in a position where i do need surgery and the nhs waiting lists are about 48
15:22
months so maybe that makes me selfish i don't know i don't know where to draw the line but a line has
15:28
to be drawn at some point i agree a line does have to get drawn somewhere because you know there are
15:33
costs involved but it strikes me that the line is drawn in the wrong place if it leaves people who
15:39
are chronically obese, morbidly obese, however we want to term it, with no other options in
15:45
that position. I agree there has to be something done but I don't know where that funding practically
15:51
is coming from when people cannot get surgery. That's how bad the NHS is. Perhaps the NHS
15:58
doesn't fit for purpose and there's a wider conversation to be had but at the moment in
16:03
time with the system that we have they cannot cope with what there is. There are 48 months
16:08
waiting list for surgery. For people who are in agony every single
16:12
day of their lives, 48 months. It's not normal. I'm having to remortgage
16:17
and borrow money to be able to get surgery abroad because the NHS
16:21
the system that I've paid my taxes into my entire life, cannot facilitate
16:24
it. So where does that line get drawn? I don't know the answer. Sharon, I'm really, really sorry
16:31
That's a nightmare, isn't it? 03456060973. Margaret's a new caller in Newham
16:36
Hi, Margaret. Hi. Hi, Tom. Hello, Margaret. Hello, Tom. I'm a Monjiro user
16:46
I've been on it for a year. I've lost six stones. Whoa. Fantastic
16:51
I know. Now, I went to my GP initially last year, not to get it on prescription
17:00
but to find out a little bit more about it, about side effects, because I was hearing all these horror stories
17:05
but I've done quite a bit of research. About the side effects
17:10
Yeah, about the side effects, about, you know, gallstones and gallbladders and all these horror stories
17:15
Yes. So I just really wanted to get someone, you know, professionals to
17:20
I actually was told that I citted the criteria apart from I was pre-diabetic
17:28
And he said to me that I could get it prescribed on the NHS once I had diabetes
17:35
Hang on, hang on, so your doctor's advice was get iller before we give you the medication
17:43
Yeah, let your health deteriorate before we can... That's extraordinary. Yeah, so I won't get away
17:49
I mean, this time last year I was looking at mobility scooters, and now I'm swimming a mile a day every day before I go to work
17:56
That's fantastic. It's literally changed my life. And, yeah, so that's why I've spent just under £3,000 or some kids now
18:05
but I am there was a guy earlier that had the gastric ban that said that his doctor had said
18:11
you know once you stop you put the weight back on well for me it's been a lifestyle change it's
18:16
about being about re-educate myself well that I think is part of it and listen there are obviously
18:20
concerns about people who then bounce back up back up the weight scale because they've come
18:24
off the dragon but you know if you can get to your destination and then start from there i.e you've
18:29
lost the weight you've always wanted to lose and now you're still then maybe that's a better place
18:33
to start changing your life from. Tom, I've got no, I am never coming off of it
18:39
Ever? I'm never coming off of it. Ever. No, never. But what it stands..
18:44
What if it gets more expensive? Well, I will find where there's a will, there's a way
18:49
I'm not going out, I must admit, I haven't gone up the doses. So I'm still on a very low dose
18:55
I'm on a very low dose. And for those people, even if the price goes up
19:00
for those people who are, you know, in a position not dissimilar to Abigail's 40-odd stone
19:04
but don't have the qualifier, whose health is not bad enough to qualify to get the jab on the NHS
19:11
what do you think the NHS should do? Oh, 100% they should be. She should have the jab, no doubt about it
19:17
Because what's happened is her health is deteriorating. Absolutely. She's going to put more pressure
19:22
It doesn't make no sense. How much worse does it need to get? Yeah, I was told, well, you're sick, but you're not sick enough
19:29
See, that's... For a health care service, get sicker, then we'll help you. Extraordinary
19:36
Margaret, great call. Thank you very much indeed. Louis is a new caller in Cramlington. Hi, Louis. Tom, nice to speak to you. Long time listener, first time caller
19:43
Thank you very much indeed for making the jump, making the leap. I'm a primary care pharmacist, so I've got a unique view on this
19:52
I've both done prescribing of it and have been using it as well
19:56
So I can see it both from the patient perspective and from the clinician perspective Yeah what do you see as a prescriber then so i um i bent the rules a little bit to be honest with you and i um gave the medicines to
20:14
some patients of mine who i thought would massively benefit from them um and just asked a few colleagues
20:20
to turn blind eyes it was um and the results i got was were phenomenal really really really good
20:27
results for some patients, life-changing results. I had some chaps coming in, bringing me, you know
20:33
56-inch waist joggers and showing me their new 42-inch waist jeans, things like that
20:39
And, Louis, you made the judgment to prescribe it on the basis of the criteria that the NHS lay out
20:43
or something else? No, no, it was, I'd bent the rules a lot to get these patients in simply because it was in their
20:53
best interests they had significant comorbidities and you know their obesity was massively
20:58
contributing towards their health so you just ignored the rules it sounds like you say bent
21:03
the rules i mean that's fine bent to almost breaking point yeah yeah yeah let's let's do that
21:09
and there was no obvious side effects to it there was no no one came in saying oh i should i wish
21:16
really wish i hadn't had this well well this this was the thing obviously as a clinician these these
21:21
drugs and and the the usage of them is really clinically intensive um to to manage and avoid
21:27
these kinds of things luckily there were no problems there were no side effects they were
21:31
all success stories but that was because i was being really intensive around this small cohort
21:36
of patients see we need more you in in the nhs having to bend the rule it's insane that you had
21:43
to bend the rules. Yeah, yeah. But the success was phenomenal. So I've had guys who their heart failure had improved
21:55
They were coming off pain-killing drugs because their osteoarthritis had improved. Their diabetes had went into remission
22:01
Their blood pressure had come down. But obviously, as all of these changes were taking place
22:05
I'm then having to manage those changes, change drug dosages, monitor for different hormones
22:11
things like that. You sound like you're doing a phenomenal job, and that is the requirement of a health service
22:18
It's not just a sickness service. It stops you getting sick, or at least sicker
22:22
And that's what happened for your patients. Louis, great call. Thank you very much indeed. Marianne's in Lambeth. Hi, Marianne
22:28
Hi. I've been listening to a few of the callers. Initially, the lady who was, I think, 45 stone
22:34
and a few others who said that it was her fault for getting to that weight
22:38
But I think what's not recognised is, if I speak for women for example
22:44
a lot of women have undiagnosed medical conditions and by the time that
22:48
it's diagnosed it's too late they've gained loads of weight for example PCOS now with PCOS you've got a hormone imbalance
22:54
and you could be exercising 5-6 days a week trying to eat well or calorie count
22:58
but you're still not able to lose the weight now you could be for example
23:02
doing loads of cardio which stresses the body increases your cortisol and then you actually end up gaining weight
23:09
and it's understanding how to train the body. It's not just about eat less, move more
23:15
It's quite a specific type of way of training. These medications can be quite life-changing
23:21
for these kind of people. And PCOS, if you speak to an entacrine doctor
23:24
they will tell you PCOS is one step before diabetes. And they are able to prescribe metformin
23:31
which is a diabetic medication for PCOS, but they're not allowed to prescribe Monjaro
23:36
which doesn't actually make very much sense. um do you think though more people maybe they don't have the comorbidities that are currently
23:44
necessary but that more people should be prescribed this i think um the prescribing
23:51
criterion probably should be altered um and widened to allow more discretion yeah
23:58
among the doctors obviously if someone is got ptos but their aches are is unnecessary but if
24:05
someone is really struggling, you know, when you've got a hormone imbalance, what people
24:11
don't talk about is the uncontrollable hunger that can come with it. So you've got an increase
24:15
in male androgens, which is high testosterone, and in a woman, that means you're really
24:20
really hungry, despite eating well. Marianne, I appreciate the background. Thank you very much indeed for that. Attila is in
24:28
Brighton. Hi, Attila. Hi there. Hi, Tom. How are you, sir? I'm very well, thank you. First time caller
24:33
Welcome. So many first-time callers today. Absolutely fantastic. You're on the jab
24:39
I'm on a jab, yes. None of the previously mentioned ones, but yeah. Okay, but it's to do with weight loss, appetite suppression, that kind of thing
24:46
That's correct, yes. And how have you found it? So I've been taking it for just two months
24:54
I managed to lose around three stones within this period, which is absolutely fantastic
24:58
I just wanted to come back and kind of reflect a little bit
25:03
on the first caller, which I believe she's 42 sons or so
25:10
I feel for her, I really do. And I think obviously her situation
25:17
financially probably won't allow her to invest money into the jobs. However, you need to take
25:23
into consideration that the amount of food she consumes also costs lots of money
25:27
So it's, again, where you would put that, maybe take away some money from that
25:32
and put it towards the Japs. Again, it's a mindset, I think
25:41
Yes, it is. It is a mindset. And again, from speaking to Abigail
25:47
her mindset is she understands she got herself into this position. Yeah
25:52
And sorry about that, but this is the position I'm in and what do we want to happen next
25:57
Do we want a sort of form of punishment that says, no, you can't have this because you're not quite ill enough
26:03
even though you haven't left the house for years and years and years, and you're 40 stone, until your health gets really bad
26:09
then we're going to step in. I'm not sure we need it to get worse, to be honest
26:13
No, definitely. The support for these people who are not able to make any move should be there
26:19
I agree with that. But there are people who are not at that extreme position
26:25
I agree. There are a hell of a lot of people, and you know it's their money, they can do to spend how they want, and there are a hell of a lot of people using Maljoro for sort of slightly cosmetic needs. You know they need to lose a couple of pounds so they take a very low dosage and they pay for it privately. It just seems a shame that the NHS would pay to have access to this but not to get it to the people who seem to really really need it
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