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Ahead of America's 250th birthday, LBC callers analyse how Trump has triggered a change in US politics. 0:00 | Peter: Trump will be looked back on as a ‘malignant tumour’ 4:30 | Is Trump the most important President of this century? 9:26 | Kenny: Trump cleaned out the swap but created a bigger one 16:23 | Listeners analyse Trump’s impact on US politics 18:43 | Mamdani could be the next big player in politics, predicts Shane 24:34 | Analysing America's 'extraordinary capacity of self-renewal' 26:29 | Paul argues integrity and morality is what the US is missing 32:51 | Simon: America has a habit of interfering in other countries Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #lewisgoodall #donaldtrump #trump #whitehouse #uspolitics #america #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
It's often quoted around the 4th of July celebrations
0:03
He said, freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. And how apposite those words seem now
0:10
How apposite those words seem now. He was completely right then. It's completely right today
0:15
Peter is in West Hampstead. Peter, do you think America is recoverable? I think it is recoverable
0:21
You have to remember that Trump, whatever his fluster, he narrowly won
0:26
He won by 77 million to 75. Since then, he's dropped a whole string of clangers
0:33
He's cost the American taxpayer a staggering amount of money and will be looked back upon as just one giant malignant tumor that could be cut out in two years' time and thrown into the dustbin of history
0:47
Everything, I think, hinges on who wins the next election in 2028 and who the Republicans put forward and if they succeed
0:56
if we have eight years of someone a bit like trump uh possibly jd vance then what you say i think is
1:04
true but i think there's a very good chance there will be a democratic revival the democrats have
1:09
got two years to get themselves together and if they can get themselves together and create some
1:14
legislation which stops this ever happening again then i think it is all recoverable i mean he he
1:22
He actually toyed with the idea of saying that because he had been elected overwhelmingly, which is untrue, he could consider a third term
1:33
He did announce that. And he's toppled, I think, six of the eight general chiefs of staff of the military
1:42
That was, I think, a very frightening thing for him to do. He's looking to be able to run the three armed forces
1:52
You know, he's looking to be able to do a coup d'etat
1:57
That's the man he is. But Peter, do you think, I mean, look, whether structurally or not the United States sort of remains a democracy
2:04
and I think it will, I've always thought that fundamentally the roots of American democracy are so deep
2:09
that it would be hard to completely destroy them, although I do think they have been, you know, cut off in many respects
2:14
and have frayed a great deal. Culturally, America's transformed under Trump, politically
2:21
I mean, if you look at the potential contenders for the presidency, whether it's on his own side, someone like Vance, who sort of is just as abrasive, just as unpleasant, just as adversarial
2:35
And then you even look at the Democratic side, you know, a lot of them, we're not talking about people who are just talking about the sort of Obama-esque kind of hopey changey stuff
2:42
We're talking about really sharp edge politicians who, you know, really go for the jugular, whether it is Ossoff or Tallarico
2:49
Tierra Rica may be a little bit less sober, AOC and people like that. Trump has changed the tenor of American politics
2:57
I think it's reversible. I still do think, I mean, the only Democrat person I can think of is Gary Newsome
3:04
And I don't know whether he is as good as he looks. I mean, he looks for part
3:09
He looks like an AI-generated version of a president. That's how good he looks
3:13
Yeah, he looks a bit, but I mean, I think it could be straightened out
3:18
but they've got to do some real constitutional lawmaking to stop this ever happening again
3:23
I don't think it's beyond repair. I think it is in a shocking..
3:27
But I think in many ways, Trump hasn't been really that clever in his tomfoolery
3:32
I think he's been quite crude and vulgar, and this can all be shown up to be true
3:37
He's a cartoon character. You seem to be... I wonder, Peter, whether you're slightly underestimating him still
3:45
I don't know. I had a letter in a newspaper and I called him a Herbert
3:50
And the editor crossed out Herbert. And he's not a Herbert. He's a 40% a Herbert, 30% a fringe, psychotic
4:04
psychiatrically quite seriously deranged person, and 30% a failed 1970s punk rock star
4:13
That's what he really wanted to do, to lead a band like Judas Priest or something like that
4:20
Maybe I'm being unkind to Judas Priest, but I think he wanted to be a rock star
4:28
I think, you see, Peter, I think he's the most important president this century by a mile. I think he's the most important in terms of his ongoing effects
4:34
not only globally, in terms of America's reputation, its place in the world
4:38
the changes in economic and social policy, the effects he's had on the judicial bench
4:44
looking at things like Roe v. Wade and so on, packing the judiciary with not just conservatives
4:49
but hardline, hardline conservatives. I mean, some of those guys who are on the Supreme Court
4:53
you know, those younger ones he appointed in the first term, never mind this one, he might get another one. They're going to be there, possibly in the middle of the century
5:00
and still, you know, trotting out their hardline, doctrinaire, hardline right, hard right conservative views
5:07
Look what they've done with the Voting Rights Act. They've completely gutted it. That's going to change the face of American democracy
5:12
So, I don't know, I know what you're saying about him being, and it's a very British way of describing him
5:16
But I think it underestimates his importance. I think what you've said could be applied to Hitler
5:24
The glory of Hitler is that he defeated himself by fighting a war that he couldn't win
5:30
And if Trump does that, if he takes on something that he really can't win
5:35
then he may topple the same way that Hitler toppled, but in a different way, obviously
5:41
He could overreach himself very, very seriously. Well, I think he already has. That's certainly true. Peter in West Ham is so grateful to you. And I wonder whether I still think, I think to some extent there is a danger we in Britain still underestimate this guy. And because he still seems so buffoonish and so clownish and so ridiculous and so absurd, we underestimate just how important he's been, not only to the United States, but to the world
6:04
Interested to hear, what has Trump taught us about the world? What has Trump taught you about the United States
6:09
Could your view of the United States ever revert back to a pre-Trump era
6:17
03456060973. A few of your texts on this question here. Phil says, the problem is, you see, J.D. Vance now
6:22
and he's a ridiculous prospect, off the back of Trump, normalising the lies and abuse coming out of the White House
6:28
That's Phil. Nikki says, the admiration for America has completely gone. What I think about with America is that it has ceased to be an ally and instead become a cautionary tale
6:38
The Trump regime, Miller, Vance, Rubio, the rest, a parade of grievance, cruelty, mediocrity, masquerading as strength
6:46
They've reduced the White House to the level of a televised brawl. Europe should stop clinging to an unreliable patron, grow up, chart its own course
6:55
The lest we depend on America, the better. That's from Nicola and Tunbridge Wells. Still very keen to hear from you if you're American yourself, by the way
7:01
If you're American yourself and you're thinking about your culture and your history and your politics over the last, this 250th anniversary weekend
7:09
there's a big moment for America, particularly if you're in America or if you're abroad
7:14
What are you thinking this weekend? Are you still proud of your country? Would you like to be taking part in all of these things
7:18
Or has Trump changed even your view of the United States? 0345 6060 973
7:25
Stephen says, Lewis, agree that US won't come back. Only hope is for someone to come in, remove presidential power over executive orders
7:33
pardons and appointment to the Supreme Court. But why should they do that when they can simply use that power to swing the pendulum back to their own side
7:41
Well, this is the thing, Stephen, why I think Trump has been deeply influential, because I think this is the lesson that he's taught Democrats
7:48
which is that you don't get anywhere by playing Mr. Nice. You know, the Democrats have spent years under Obama and then Biden
7:56
you know, being the party of the rules, the party of the norms
8:00
the party that does the right thing. Even if those guys are doing the wrong thing
8:04
we're the guys, we're the kind of, we're sitting on the moral high ground
8:08
We're the goody two shoes. We're top of the class. That's all gone now. I think if you listen to what people like Gavin Newsom say
8:14
people like AOC say, people like John Ossoff say, all of these people vying for the next presidential candidate
8:19
the presidential nomination for the Dems in 2028. They're all like, that's all gone
8:24
We have to play by these guys rules which is no rules You play dirty You bend the rules You smash the rules if you have to in order to win because the stakes are too high otherwise The stakes are existential
8:36
If these guys win, if they win, then that's a collapse. Then the whole house of cards collapses
8:42
And I don't think that that snaps back. I think that that reflex that Trump has taught the
8:46
Democrats will remain and will stay. And that is one of the things and one of the ways in which
8:52
democracy itself starts to break down and starts to collapse is that when neither side trusts the
8:57
other to stick to the basic rules any longer and it becomes a democratic race to the bottom
9:04
I knew people were going to not like it when I said that people, when I said that Trump can be
9:09
funny. I've already seen so many texts about this. Look, he can be funny. That is part of his success
9:13
You don't have to like it. You don't have to like the guy. But one of big part of his success
9:17
You recognize political success when you see it. And he can be very funny
9:21
What he's doing is not funny, but he can be funny. But I knew people were not going to like that. But never mind, it's Friday
9:26
Kenny is in Croydon. Kenny, you're an American, is that right? That is correct
9:30
Yes, I am a proud American. And how are you feeling about this 250th anniversary weekend
9:36
Mixed emotions. I mean, you know, we were talking about the Bush era
9:40
and how we had sunk to a low with the Iraq war
9:44
Then we had Obama come in, which took us on a high. And then we got Trump that comes in and the past two years has taken us to new lows, depths that were unheard of previously
9:56
When you talk about depths, what are you thinking? What do you have in mind? Just the way that he behaves. Again, the whole NATO situation, the tariff situation, the disrespectful sort of words that he uses for his opponent and people
10:12
it's just not it's just inhumane the way he behaves and it's embarrassing because that's
10:18
not how we are as americans does he make you feel ashamed it does he does yes is there anything do
10:24
you understand anything about his political appeal uh yes i do and i think it was interesting
10:30
because remember i'm from new york he was a new yorker so i remember him very well yes um it's
10:36
amazing how long he's been around isn't it you know it's actually his longevity like you read
10:40
like American Psycho, you know, a book from 2000 or late 90s written about the 80s. And he's in
10:45
that. Home Alone. He's such a sort of ubiquitous figure in modern American life. Yeah, we were born
10:51
in the same hospital, funny enough. I'm sure he'll think that it should be renamed after him
10:57
Well, it was renamed after him. They've taken it down, actually. It was originally called the
11:02
Donald Trump. It had a Donald Trump wing and they took it down a couple of years ago
11:05
Of course. But I just think it's interesting how I do see the appeal
11:10
When he came in, the Democrats, this last election, the Democrats kind of dropped the ball on this one
11:15
and they made it easy for him. He said things people wanted to hear
11:20
He was good at telling people what they wanted to hear. Right
11:23
Remember the whole thing about cleaning the swamp? He's going to clear out the swamp. He did clean out the swamp
11:28
He just created a bigger one. That's only him. That's where he sits at the top of the mark
11:32
Do you think that he's fundamentally altered the character of American politics in America
11:38
Temporarily, yes. I think people are starting to see, because I have friends who voted for Trump
11:43
and they're all having buyer's remorse, right? He's very unpopular at the moment
11:48
Yeah, very few of them still believe in him anymore, because they've gotten to see who he was, who he truly is
11:53
I mean, he's looked out for himself the whole time, never for the people. And that, I think, people are not going to forget very easily
11:59
And I think anybody who's in his administration, when you look at Hegseth and the things he's doing, you look at J.D. Vance wanting to move it in, which is why they're shifting to a more religious sort of style now, because they're trying to bring back the evangelicals which have left
12:14
Do you think, though, that America can revert to something else? In a way, reversion is the wrong term, isn't it
12:21
Because the truth is that it's like the old quote about the angel and the devil
12:27
the different scale of America and the different nature and the different types of America
12:33
the better angels of our nature. And these two Americas have always coexisted, right
12:37
They're one and the same, you know? It's like the motto itself, he pluribus unum out of many one
12:42
this is all America. Obama was America. Trump is America. Neither was more authentic
12:47
than the other. They just both are. Right. It's what I call the pendulum
12:51
swing, right? You have the pendulum swinging too far to the left under the Obama era
12:55
Now it's swung too far to the right on the Trump era. So we have to find that balance
12:59
But I do think that there is we will, as Americans, there's a
13:03
resilience where we will come back to normality or a version of somewhat normal where the
13:09
respect comes back. But you have to have, unfortunately, a crisis that brings us all together like September 11th. It changes
13:17
the dynamic. Do you think America is still a force for good in the world? Sadly, no
13:23
You don't? Sadly, no. I think we kind of have just plundered and just been so horrible at some of the things
13:31
that we've done that it's hard to come back from this now. People don't trust us anymore
13:36
You've got the Iraq war. You've got the Iran war. We're not trusted globally anymore
13:40
You have the NATO situation, and it's going to be a really long time
13:45
before we can actually, as Ronald Reagan used to say, be the beacon on the hill
13:51
Who do you fancy for 2028 on the Dem side? No one
13:55
No one? No one. You don't think anyone's... Really? No. Not even Tallarico, if he were to win in Texas
14:02
or John Ossoff in Georgia? No. No, and I think because, listen, because remember
14:07
America's so fragmented now. You've got to get someone who can actually bring everyone back together
14:13
and find common ground. And the Democrat situations right now, they're looking too far left
14:18
So you're going to have those hard line of rights that aren't going to come to the table. You need someone who's in the centre and that doesn't exist at the moment
14:24
And one thing, I've got to go to the news in a second, Kenny, but one thing that, I mean, I travelled to America a lot for work
14:29
reporting on American politics. I was there during the DNC in 2024 in Chicago
14:33
We drove to Indiana, a little place in, you know, more Republican county in Indiana
14:38
and we went to a bar and we were chatting to these great people and we were chatting to two people
14:42
one couple who was like their 53rd wedding anniversary or something and another guy who was just next door
14:47
And there were a couple who were Republicans. They were old school sort of Reaganite Republicans
14:52
And they were like, you know, Trump's ruined our family. I said, what do you mean
14:55
And they said, well, we've had people, they've become so radicalized in the family
14:59
And don't get me wrong, we're right wing, right? We're Republicans, proper Republicans always have been
15:03
But we've had siblings who've been so radicalized by MAGA that just because we do not live in the reality that they live in
15:11
because we say, well, that's not right, this has actually happened, whatever, they've stopped talking to us
15:15
And we had another guy just next door who was definitely in that camp
15:19
who honestly, lovely guy, one of the nice guys you've ever met, just was about to leave saying, he just turned to us and said
15:24
so when are you getting your money from Pelosi? And I thought, as in the former Speaker of the House
15:28
and I initially thought, we just laughed, thought it was a joke
15:32
and then we looked at him and we could see he was staring straight through us, It's like, no, seriously, when are you going to get your money
15:38
I mean, that's the sort of radicalisation we're dealing with. It's happened, right? Lewis, I got friends who do not speak to each other
15:44
because some have voted for Trump and the others voted Democrat. I have friends that do not speak to each other
15:49
And family members. I'm sitting in the middle. Of course, if things had worked out a bit differently
15:54
we'd have actually had the 250th anniversary celebrations yesterday. Because when the actual document was properly signed on the 2nd of July
16:01
John Adams, one of my great heroes, famously thought that that would be the date
16:05
In fact, he said, it ought to be solemnised the 2nd of July with pomp and parade
16:09
with shows and games and sports and guns and bells and bonfires and illuminations
16:13
from one end of the continent to the other, from this time forward forevermore
16:17
Well, he was sort of right, but he was two days out because, of course, it's the 4th of July that it's celebrated on
16:21
for reasons that need not detain us. A few more of your texts here. Beatrice says, I knew this was going to happen
16:25
Funny, Lewis, if you mean WTF is this absolute corrupt, authoritarian, horrific, cruel person
16:33
doing as president to the USA, rounding up kids on the street. I've reported on that, Beatrice
16:38
And deporting legal citizens, reported on that from Minnesota, Beatrice, whilst making billions from the state
16:43
reported on that. It's really funny, a.k.a. weird. But if you mean funny, ha-ha
16:46
you are generally suffering from derangement. It's not funny. Trump is not funny. He's a dangerous man
16:51
Of course, he can be both, Beatrice. He is a dangerous man. He's a very dangerous man
16:56
God knows I think that But you can also recognize his political appeal in puncturing quite a lot of the pomposity of politics And that one of the reasons it been so successful in confounding people belief
17:08
of what a politician should be and is. Not saying it's good, but sometimes you can't help but just
17:15
laugh at the guy. Not often with the guy, but if nothing else, just laugh at the guy. That's just
17:20
and it has been a significant part of his appeal. Stuart says, Trump hasn't changed America
17:25
He's shown it for what it's always been. It was created by the rich white men for rich white men
17:30
It was created to steal land, native and later Canada. The greed and corruption is now there for all to see
17:36
They can't even be bothered to hide it these days. Always racist. The times it's been decent, the aberrations
17:41
I don't agree with that. Yes, it's true. America has a deeply racialized and racist history
17:45
Of course it does. It also has a history of being one of the finest democracies in the world
17:49
Countries like people are complicated. Countries like people have complicated histories. and it's certainly not all bad, far from it
17:57
As I say, if it wasn't for the United States, including soldiers of colour who shamefully were serving
18:02
in the Second World War in segregated units, we wouldn't be where we are today
18:05
We wouldn't be having this rather nice conversation. And Thor says, Thor Tord, great Norwegian name, Tord
18:11
you are forgetting what Trump is about. He's not interested in other people
18:15
He sees himself as the USA. He's made more money than he's ever before in his life
18:19
and he does not need to consider the long term. His lifespan is limited
18:23
Well, ain't that the truth, Thor? And, yeah, I mean, maybe that's a saving grace here
18:28
Your thoughts on the United States and this 250th anniversary weekend. Is it redeemable, or has Trump changed America
18:35
and American democracy and American life forever? 0345 6060 973. Shane is in Sandhurst in Berkshire
18:45
Shane, your thoughts on this. Do you think that Trump has changed America permanently? Hi, Lewis
18:51
It's a bit of a mixed bag, because he is a moo and a bit of a shaker
18:56
So I can see he's got a bit of swagger on him. And he's obviously recently made approximately, I guess
19:01
two billion from his cryptocurrency business. Yes, he has. An absolute fortune
19:07
Quite a bit of a funny taste in people, yeah. Sorry, yeah. Do you think that he is, but as I say
19:13
do you think that he's changed the country permanently? I think he has. And whether someone's going to see it in a positive light
19:18
or a negative light, it depends on which side of the corner you are. whether you're team red or you're team blue
19:24
So that's what it comes down to, I guess. But what do you think? What I think, well, I don't want to be too pessimistic of America
19:30
because I have been to America. The people are very welcoming. The culture is pretty great in its own way
19:36
depending on which light you want to scan it on. And I think people are not really giving much light
19:42
to a potential president who could come from the Democratic side. And I think Zoran Mamdani could be the next kingmaker
19:49
Well, he could be the kingmaker, but unfortunately, of course, he can't be the king, can he? because he wasn't born in the US
19:54
Oh, sorry. No, I know. I hate to disappoint you. I'm sorry
19:58
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. The only reason I was drawing that line was because of, you know
20:02
recently with Andy Burnham being the, you know, the mayor of Manchester. Yes, yes, yes
20:07
That's the only correlation. Well, indeed. I mean, it could be exactly the same path
20:10
couldn't it? But don't get me wrong, there are many, many Americans
20:14
who would dearly love to see Zoram Amdani run for president, but because he was born in Uganda
20:20
According to the provisions of the Constitution, he's not eligible to run for president
20:24
You have to have been born in the United States. So unless they change the Constitution, and given they haven't changed the Constitution since the early 90s
20:31
it doesn't seem very likely, unfortunately. It's strange. He could enrol as mayor
20:37
but he's not allowed to go eligible for the president. You can be anything. You can be anything
20:42
You can be a senator, you can be a governor, you can be a congressman
20:46
you can be Secretary of State, you can be Speaker of the House, but you can't be President or Vice President
20:51
That's a constitutional requirement. You had to have been born in the United States
20:56
and it goes back to the very start. I guess a bit with the fiasco with ICE currently in America
21:01
that's left quite a bad taste in people. If you've seen recently how the football team
21:06
the Iranian football team was treated, that was quite harsh. They were flying out from Mexico, literally
21:11
for every training or every game that they had. Oh, yeah. And the whole thing with the World Cup
21:17
I know a lot of people were saying that, they were comparing it to Qatar, they were saying that literally the American
21:22
the World Cup being held in America, was definitely a lot more of a turn-off
21:27
than what was going on in Qatar. What, although to be fair, I mean, you know
21:31
the Americans didn't use any slave labour to build their stadiums. Yeah, I mean, I do understand these gold countries
21:38
whether it's Dubai or any of these wealthy or rich countries, they do use a lot of migrant labour for their high-rise buildings
21:44
Yeah, but also they ended up, they were enslaved. But, I mean, let's leave that to one side, not go down that rabbit hole
21:48
Shane, do you think that, for you, do you think America is still a force for good in the world
21:54
I do believe that. And the reason, as I said, because I've actually been there, so I can't just say, like, you know, it's all corruption
22:00
it's all race, and that's a very pessimistic way of looking at things. And if you do travel to these places
22:06
depending on which state you go to, the people are very welcoming and they're very friendly too
22:09
so that's they are, they're some of the loveliest people in the world
22:13
they're some of the loveliest people in the world do you think that American politics is affecting our politics, Shane
22:19
I would say because I've noticed when something does happen in America, it does kind of like
22:23
pebble off down here as well America sneezes and we catch a cold
22:28
yes, that's basically it yeah and in terms of any American politicians you admire at the moment
22:37
it would be Mamdani I do like Mamdani, but obviously I've always been a quite a..
22:43
I've had fondness for, what's his name again, Bernie Saunders? Yes. I think he's a bit of a good guy
22:49
I don't know too much about AOC or much of the other candidates
22:52
I know Gavin Newsom is a current... Is he the mayor of California
22:57
He's the governor of California, yeah. Oh, sorry, the governor of California, yeah. So I know he's quite popular because one of your callers mentioned him as well, didn't he
23:04
He's like a sort of... He's so unbelievably good-looking. He's like this kind of like AI-generated
23:09
He looks like, you know, films in the 90s with American presidents. Yeah, like a 50s noir movie
23:13
Yeah, exactly. It's like exactly the kind of AI-generated image of what you think an American president is going to be from that era
23:19
I think that's the best attribute. His hair has got amazing hair. He's got a cracking hairline. Shane in Sandhurst, grateful to you for your thoughts there
23:26
I suppose another way of looking at this as well is leaving aside American politics
23:31
or rather thinking about it, how it intersects with our politics. And is American politics, I mean, do you worry
23:36
that we are ourselves heading for Trump-style politics? Do we already have Trump-style politics
23:42
I mean, we've got, you know, if the polls are to be believed, we've got a party which is led by the biggest admirer
23:49
of Donald Trump in our politics, Nigel Farage, which, according to the polls, yeah, they're taking a bit of a dip
23:56
but they're still leading in all of the polls. If there were a general election tomorrow, they'd still be most fancied to form the next government
24:01
even if it was a minority administration. Is the legacy, is there a world
24:05
where America moves on from Trump politics just at the moment we're adopting Trump politics
24:10
which could happen with the electoral cycle that it's in. Has Trump affected British politics
24:15
in ways that you've noticed and internalised and thought about? Is Trump actually the most significant figure
24:21
in British politics right now? And what are the signs of that leading into the UK
24:27
What are the ways that you've noticed that Trump-style politics is starting to affect our politics in Britain
24:34
Here's a negative case for why America ain't snapping back. One, the Republican Party has fundamentally changed
24:40
It ain't the party of George W. Bush no more. It ain't the party of Ronald Reagan no more
24:44
It certainly ain't the party of Dwight D. Eisenhower anymore. It's not just a gentle country club Republicans
24:49
This is a fundamentally altered party, which is hard rights. It is deeply populist
24:55
Its demographic base is fundamentally transformed. Even the successors who are less polarizing will keep much of the agenda
25:02
It's changed. trust in institutions has collapsed over the last 10 years
25:06
Confidence in Congress, the media, the universities, the civil service of America
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even elections themselves have been fundamentally changed. Trump has introduced a poison of election denialism
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into American politics as a third of American voters who still believed absurdly wrongly
25:20
that the 2020 presidential election was rigged in favour of Joe Biden
25:25
That genie ain't going back in the bottle. America is more polarised that ain going to change The media is more polarised that ain going to change The courts have shifted That Conservative supermajority Trump has appointed he may strengthen and bolster That going to be there into the middle of the century
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almost certainly. And executive power has expanded. He has changed the presidency
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Fundamentally, it is stronger than it has ever been. But, and here's the positive side
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but America, more than any other country I know, has extraordinary capacity of self-renewal
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It has the ability to pick itself up and start again. It is built into its warp and weft. It is built into its constitution. It is
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built into its politics. Every two, every four, every eight years, there is democratic renewal
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And more than any other country I know, it is capable of that, of starting again. It is a
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country addicted to new beginnings and not always being haunted by its past. And so if any country
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can change again and can renew again. It is the United States
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Paul is in Brighton. Paul. Lewis, I just can't agree with everything you've said anymore
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It's absolutely brilliant. America can have a rebirth, but it has been brought down into this sort of ground zero
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cesspool in certain aspects. But in other aspects, Trump gets things done
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in a way that no other president has done for the last 10 years
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I mean, when Russia invaded Crimea, Barack Obama did nothing. Joe Biden had the opportunity
26:58
to load the Supreme Court and he didn't do it. And I was screaming at my Democratic friends
27:04
in Washington to do something. You mean pack the court, expand the court? Pack, sorry, pack the court
27:09
Yeah, thank you very much. No, no, no, just to explain to our British listeners who answered it. But he had the opportunity to do that
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and it wasn't done. And I'm just thinking, are you crazy? I mean, Trump, I mean
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even though I'm Democrat mostly, I did vote for Ronald Reagan in the 1980s
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But, I mean, they have not done things right, and they've lost their way
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And the DNC is almost, well, it was disbanded to a degree just after the election in 2024
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Trump has changed America. I think you're right, though. It can come back from the ashes
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And I just wanted to sort of do a little ysis of sort of Trump today to King George in 1776
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Because I think the founding fathers of the United States probably broke away from King George because he was mad as a hatter
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And they created the United States based – they were all Freemasons, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson
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And Freemasonry was the cornstone of the Declaration of Independence. And that is something that is lost today because – and you had Trump going to Teddy Roosevelt's thing in North Dakota the other day, didn't he
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Yes, yes, that's where he talks about the threesome with his sons. Teddy Roosevelt was a Freemason
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and he lived those ideals of morality and integrity, and that's what's missing in America today
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and you could argue that's what's missing in the United Kingdom as well. Do you have some optimism about that renewal, Paul
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Do you think it is possible? Well, I'm an eternal optimist. Well, you're American. You're all optimists, really
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No, no, but I'm... You're the descendants of the people. I've lived here since 1975
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Oh, okay, fair enough. where you've had plenty of opportunities to be infected with our pessimism
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but you're the descendants of the people who thought, you're the descendants of the people who thought, you know what, it's got to be better than here
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And we're all the descendants of the people who went, you know what, I think we'll just stay here
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I think this is fine here. Yeah, no, no, that's right. But I mean, there has to be a moral code that people
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and I think Americans can gravitate to that, whether you're on the right, whether you're MAGA
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whether you're Democrat, whatever you are, if you start talking about morality and ethics
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everyone will have to tend to agree. And I think people have to focus their base around that
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before they start spouting what they want to do with the country because that's what's missing today
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And I think that society needs that more than ever. You have two hats
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You've been here obviously since, you say, 1975, so a very long time. So you've lots of opportunities to watch British culture and society and politics
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I grew up here since I was eight years old. Oh, well, there you go. So you've maintained the accent
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I worked for a U.S. company for 14 years in London. You're used to having to do it
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Well, anyway. I went to a U.S. university, so that's... There we go. But do you think that American politics, Trump-style politics
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can you see its shadow on the United Kingdom and British politics
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Just in a little, I mean, I see Nigel Farage as the mouthpiece of Trump
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in U.K. Parliament and U.K. politics. But, I mean, I think Nigel's time is sort of past now
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I think he's taken that five million quid, and I think that's going to be the end of him, really
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I don't think he's going to recover. And I think that Andy Berman has come, you know
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and he's delivered that sort of hope that we need. We need to believe in hope
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and hopefully he will put that into action with good strategies as well
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But you see what it did in Maccasfield. He wiped reform with the front map
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Do you have any hopes, particularly you say you mainly vote Democrat
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Anyone on the 2028 field at the moment that takes your fancy? If I was going to speak to, one of my friends is on the DNC
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because she's married to a Kennedy, but I could, so she's very well integrated into that
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I would imagine so. But, you know, I would say Gavin Newsom and AOC as vice president
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would be a good ticket. You don't think that would seem too liberal? It is liberal, but I mean, you have to..
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I mean, how do you get the right to swing over? I mean, Gavin Newsom is probably more in the middle, obviously
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AOC isn't. But that... I mean, I don't see anyone else coming through the channel right now
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that's going to be playing a key role. I just don't. Who can win? How do you feel, Paul
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Do you think, as a man, do you think about the 250th weekend? Is it something that you're sort of reflecting on
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Well, I was in Washington a few weeks ago because I wanted to go because it was the 250th anniversary
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and I wanted to visit the center of it all. I mean, I was not there on business for other reasons
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and I was there just a few days before the king visited. So it was quite fun because you've got the British flags and the American flags
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and the 250th anniversary, and it's quite moving. But I think people don't recognize the significance of it
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and what I think it will sort of reopen is what was America founded on
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And I was at the Thomas Jefferson Memorial. And if you look at the Thomas Jefferson
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there's four walls on the memorial that list all of the extracts
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of the Declaration of Independence. And if you read those, if you want, I'll send them to LBC's WhatsApp after this call
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so you can look at them in more detail. But, I mean, they are extraordinarily compact, you know
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strategies and ways to lead a country. Well, they were extraordinary. I mean, they were, for all of their faults
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and obviously many of them, including Jefferson's slaveholders appalling, but they were extraordinary men in terms of their intellectual complexity
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and their contribution, philosophical, political contribution to, obviously, America, but also wider democratic life
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Paul, grateful to you. Simon, last word on this in Liscard in Cornwall. Simon, is America still a force for good
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Yes and no. I used to live in the States for some years
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And I left the States being very worried and felt that I wouldn't trust the Americans too far
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And the reason being that when I was there in Texas, but I also traveled around quite a lot
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the Americans that I came in contact with, a large percentage, were ready to take on the Arabs even then, many, many years ago
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You were right in saying that Trump is important, but purely from the damage he's done
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And he, it is quite funny. He is quite funny. But I'm laughing at him, not with him
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And do you think that America will recover? I think it's going to take a long time. And they've got in the habit since the Second World War of interfering in other countries who then bite back
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And then they are justified in taking action
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