Up next in 10
James O'Brien speaks to several of the journalists who have been banned from Reform UK's party conference.
Peter Geoghegan, one of the banned journalists, thinks this was an 'attempt to avoid scrutiny', and Michael Crick says Nigel Farage is 'becoming more Trumpian.'
Reform said they banned the two award-winning journalists because they were minor figures.
03:00 | Michael Crick, author of The Disruptive Life of Nigel Farage, says the Reform UK leader doesn't like people laughing at him or asking about his finances.
06:28 | Peter Geoghegan, editor of Democracy for Sale, thinks the decision to ban some journalists from their conference is 'an attempt to stop scrutiny.'
09:39 | Sam Bright, UK deputy editor of DeSmog, wants to ask Reform questions about the groups and corporations invited to the conference instead.
11:57 | Will Hayward, award-winning investigative journalist and the Guardian's Wales columnist, has been banned from Reform events previously, and thinks the party is under more pressure now than ever before.
Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp
#jamesobrien #reformuk #ukpolitics #uknews #nigelfarage #LBC
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0:00
I think we're up to five. Let me just check with my top team of operatives
0:03
Have we got five journalists now banned from the Reform UK conference literally for telling the truth
0:09
I said I wasn't going to talk about Russia much today, but that's a tiny bit Stalinist, isn't it
0:14
Why have you been banned from the party conference? Oh, I reported something. Oh, dear. But did it turn out not to be true
0:19
Oh, no. It turned out to be completely true. That's why they've banned me. Six. I tell it like we're up to six
0:24
Six journalists currently banned from the Reform UK conference for telling the truth
0:28
And that's the ones that applied. I think we can be fairly confident about what would happen if I were to chuck my hat into that particular ring
0:36
So we're up to six. The party of free speech has currently banned six first-class journalists from its own conference
0:45
But what have we learned? And of course, he's still boycotting the BBC Farage
0:50
but he managed to simultaneously boycott and give an interview to them yesterday
0:53
in which he complained about all the people who complain about him. How many... I mean, good Lord
0:59
Nadine Doris spent almost her entire career as Culture Secretary trying to get me sacked from this job
1:04
Little old me. Little old me lying about me in select committees
1:08
which are, of course, covered by parliamentary privilege, so not subject to libel proceedings, unluckily
1:14
and trying to get me sacked, contacting badgering my bosses here at LBC Towers
1:18
to actually get me sacked. But, no, it's them that are constantly complained about
1:22
I think I've got complaints in at the moment, haven't I, from 30P Lee for calling Nigel Farage names
1:27
That's how thick-skinned and tough they are and dedicated to free speech
1:31
Six journalists currently banned. It's 33 minutes after 11. Let me refresh your memory of an exchange between Nigel Farage
1:40
who appears to have come out of hiding in Birmingham this week, and the Democrat politician Jamie Raskin in Congress in September of last year
1:49
You've banned journalists from your political events that you disagree with, haven't you
1:54
No, in fact, I'm the only political... Really? At your convention, you didn't ban journalists and revoke their credentials
1:59
You know, I take, at the average press conference, I take 25 questions
2:04
No, no, that wasn't my question. Mr. Farage, we're politicians, so we see what you're doing
2:07
I'm asking you a direct question. Well, thank you. I'm very pleased you do. I'm asking you a direct question, and I hope you can answer it
2:13
Why do you ban journalists who oppose your views from coming to your events
2:17
Why did you tell your party, why did you tell the local government not to do interviews with your local newspaper
2:24
I am the most open person to any journalist. Undoubtedly, you're the handsomest man in the world
2:30
But I'm asking you a different question, OK? That's not my question. My question for you is, and it's legit
2:36
why do you ban journalists that you disagree with from your political events, like from your convention
2:40
I don't. OK, and you say you've never done that? I can't think, if I go back the last 25 years
2:46
I can't think of banning anybody. But I mean, maybe somebody else did. But look, I repeat the point
2:53
A big boy did it and ran away. I've got four people to talk to here
2:57
so you'll forgive me for talking a little bit less than I usually do. Michael Crick, political journalist
3:02
I'm going to use the word veteran. I never know how that lands with people, but you must have attended more party conferences
3:07
than any party leader, Michael, by dint of going to several every year
3:11
and also the author of The Disruptive Life of Nigel Farage. You just heard him say that he's never banned anyone
3:16
from one of his conferences. Have you ever been banned from a Reform UK conference, Michael Crick
3:21
Not before, no. I was actually frog-marched out of a UKIP conference
3:25
in the days when Farage was leader, in a pretty nasty way, actually
3:29
because I'd been trying to talk to Neil Hamilton, who'd fallen out with Farage
3:34
but that was all sort of repaired, and I was allowed back in. And Labour tried to ban a few people from their conference last year
3:41
you'll remember, but I think in the end they backed down and let most of them in
3:46
So why are you not going to this one? Well, because I can't get in, I haven't got a press pass
3:52
But what have you done? Well, I've been quite critical of Farage in recent weeks
3:56
and his bad temper over the whole Harbourn donation. And, of course, I was involved many years ago on Channel 4 News
4:06
and then in my book in exposing all the stuff about him being anti and racist when he was a schoolboy at Dulwich College And he didn like that And that dragged on for several weeks you recall around about the turn of the year And you know I regularly ask questions
4:23
about what he and his party are up to. On the other hand, I say some quite positive things
4:27
about them from time to time. You do. People probably think I'm a bit too positive
4:31
Well, I couldn't possibly comment, Michael. We're here to talk about you, not me. But you also, of course, famously filmed
4:38
or unwittingly, Lee Anderson managed to get himself on tape setting up a friend to pretend to be a random voter
4:46
when you were out on the stump with him. Yeah, that was a lot of fun
4:50
That was way back in the 2019 election. Extraordinary. Made Lee Anderson look a right chump
4:57
He was a Conservative in those days, of course. Of course he was. And maybe he's... I mean, he's the chairman of reform
5:04
Maybe he's behind this. Maybe he's getting his own back. I mean, it's not the end of the world for me
5:09
I just won't go and do something else instead. But it is. I mean, just beyond the mischief, of course
5:15
there he is in Congress stating that this kind of thing never happens
5:18
And here it is happening, as far as we're aware, on six different occasions. Is he getting more thin-skinned as these stories grow
5:25
Undoubtedly. And I think, you know, since the Harbourn story, I mean, you know, the affable Farage has become the laughable Farage
5:31
with the Clacton by-election and so on. He doesn't like people taking the mickey out of him
5:37
He doesn't like people asking questions about his finances. And I think he's become much more Trumpian in recent years
5:44
much more obsessed by making money, which is getting him into trouble. And he's under attack now
5:49
I mean, Labour and the Conservatives are both rejuvenated under new leaders
5:54
And he also faces a serious threat from Rupert Lowe and his new party, Restore
6:01
And, of course, he fell out with Lowe in a big way. So it's his own fault, really, that Lo has gone off and done this
6:07
So the pressure on him right now is huge. And, of course, the pressure is all the greater because it's a dictatorship
6:14
If he had to, if he delegated a little bit more, he wouldn't be under so much pressure
6:18
But that's how he chooses to do it. See, those are precisely the sort of comments that have rendered you persona non grata
6:23
Michael Crick, thank you. That book, The Disruptive Life of Nigel Farage's required reading
6:28
Peter Gagan, editor of the investigative newsletter Democracy for Sale. I think I saw that you and Crick have been banned from this conference because you're not high status enough
6:38
That seems fair. I think we're described as minor characters or something similar, kind of Dominic Cummings-esque language
6:47
I think they describe Michael as an academic because he's got a university position
6:50
And I'm a blogger, apparently, so that means that I don't qualify either
6:55
I'm sure it's got nothing to do with the numerous stories that Democracy for Sailors has ran about reform
7:01
its funding and various aspects of the party and everybody else too. I'm sure that's just a coincidence
7:06
And also, you know, just a blogger who managed to win the Private Eye Investigative Journalist of the Year Award
7:11
just a few short weeks ago. So, you know, these things matter. What stories do you think might have caused the most upset
7:19
Well, I was really struck and I can't say cause and effect. You never can with these things
7:23
But at five o'clock on Wednesday, I published a story about Isabel Oakeshott
7:27
Isabel Oakeshott is Richard Tice's partner and very much one of the most boosterish reform voices you'll find
7:35
And actually, in recent months, she's been talking a lot about how this five million pounds from Christopher Harbour
7:39
which you've talked about a lot, James, and we've written about a lot in Democracy. We've said how it's nothing to see here. It's nothing to see
7:44
Who cares how Nigel gets his money? How he buys a house is none of nobody's business, is what she said
7:48
Well, we were able to reveal that before the 2024 general election, she'd privately told a senior reform figure that she thought that Christopher Harbourn at the time was untrustworthy and she concerns about his money
7:59
So we published that story at five o'clock. And at 5.35 precisely, an email landed in my inbox from the reforms accreditation team saying, really sorry about this
8:09
It was almost like a kind of a job application you'd failed. Thank you so much for applying. But this time, unfortunately, you haven't been selected
8:16
So they selected 950 journalists apparently, but for some reason I think myself and Michael somehow didn't qualify in the top 950 people to be covering the reform conference
8:26
Michael made the point that it not going to have any impact upon any work that you do unless they worried about you actually talking to the party rank and file What exactly is it that they would be trying to prevent by keeping your fizzog out of the room
8:38
I think it's a kind of, it's, my read on this is that it's an attempt to just
8:42
it's an attempt to kind of stop scrutiny. It's an attempt to not engage with people who are trying to scrutinise you
8:47
And it's not just, you know, Michael mentioned that other parties have banned people from their party conferences before
8:53
It's also not just that. Gabriel Pagron has done some great work with the Sunday Times digging into Farage's money
8:58
He has spoken publicly about when he wrote about Richard Tice's tax affairs, how reform refused
9:04
Richard Tice and twice Tice's lawyer refused to acknowledge his requests for comment
9:08
That's a really serious thing that makes it really hard to report because legally you have to know that the person you're making these accusations about has heard them
9:15
So that's a really big thing. I've also spoken to other journalists who are actually attending the conference who told me that they won't, they can't get, they get stonewalled when they ask for details about press party conference briefings, all that sort of stuff
9:29
It isn't just this. This, I think, is a wider, it looks like it's a wider kind of strategy we're seeing here from reform
9:35
And Michael Crick's already used the word Trumpian. It's hard to resist in this context
9:39
Sam Bright, investigative journalist, author and the deputy, UK deputy editor of The Smog
9:45
I mean, this is getting ridiculous. Surely you haven't been banned as well, Sam. I'm afraid I have, James, although I'm in very good company
9:52
Well, I'm beginning to feel left out. I didn't apply, but I still want to be banned
9:57
It would be ironic if they let you in, James, given what you said. Now, that would be a turn for the book
10:01
Do you know why? What have you done to upset them? Similar to Peter, I think the timing of all this was quite ironic
10:08
We did a piece where we ran through, sifted through the party's agenda and the Speaker's
10:15
who have been let in and will be turning up over the next few days. We revealed the fact that, you know, you've got major corporations actually there
10:23
You've got the likes of Google, you've got the likes of Meta, TikTok. But alongside them, you've got fossil fuel lobbyists and you've got anti-abortion groups
10:33
And a few hours after we went to Reform for Common, as all good professional journalists do
10:39
we were informed likewise that we would not be accredited. And just as a side point, James, it's very ironic that when Farah spoke to Congress last year, that appearance was facilitated by an anti-abortion group
10:54
And they seem to not be keen on us reporting the fact that their ties to similar groups are multiplying
11:02
So, I mean, to be fair, other parties would have some of those interests represented, wouldn't they
11:08
I mean, you can't really have a... I guess the Greens don't have a very high representation
11:11
of fossil fuel companies, but it's not unique to reform. No, absolutely not
11:16
Although, as we've pointed out extensively, for us, I mean, let's just take Tice's recent remarks
11:23
about sparkling wine from the English countryside now being the tipple of choice thanks to climate change
11:31
You know, this all feeds into this idea that reform's a climate denial party
11:36
but has itself actually taken a lot of money from fossil fuel interests. And of course a recent interview with Bloomberg
11:41
where he insisted that there were loads of scientists who agreed with his scepticism about man-made climate change
11:45
He just couldn't think of any at that moment. Yeah, and he threatened to walk out of that interview, I think, actually, didn't he, James
11:52
Well, that's the alternative. If you can't ban the journalist, you can walk out of the interviews, I suppose
11:56
Sam, thank you. Will Haywood, multi-award winning... Well, actually, to be fair, I think all of my guests today are multi-award winners
12:03
A journalist, author of the Will Haywood newsletter and the Guardian's Wales columnist
12:09
We're up to three. Surely it's not four, Will. I'm afraid so. You're going to have to add me to the list
12:14
What happened? Do you know? What have you done to upset them? Apart from journalism
12:19
In their defence, I have repeatedly reported on the things they've said and done. Actually, I've been banned from some previous ones
12:26
but in 2024 I was allowed to actually interview Farage in the party's Wales conference in Newport
12:33
And just before I began that interview, it was made clear by a member of Farage's inner circle that he said
12:39
we haven worked together before and whether we work together again will depend on what happens now So it was very clear that future access would be predicated on how I conducted that interview and it seemed I failed the test That was the last time you were allowed into the Royal Presence
12:57
After that I was persona non grata. So although there has been some interactions kind of indirectly
13:03
a leaked WhatsApp group from the internal comms team at Reform actually revealed
13:09
their head of comms called me um it's can't say this on the radio but i'll see you next tuesday
13:13
um which which can i i don't know if i can say that you just did we're okay i think okay uh and
13:21
i i also there was a recent incident inside the the senate inside the welsh parliament canteen
13:27
where uh seemingly some reform staffers took a picture of me speaking to some other politicians
13:32
as i do every day as part of my job and um posted it on their social media as evidence of my uh
13:39
complicity against reform. So it's been an interesting rollercoaster. And, yeah, as you said at the beginning, albeit amusingly
13:46
that what you've done is report on things that they have said and done. And, of course, your patch goes beyond reform
13:53
and covers the whole of Wales. A lot of love for you coming in on my inbox, actually, Will, I have to tell you
13:57
He's fantastic, great Welsh journalist. We should hear more from him. I love Will. He's brilliant, says Alid
14:02
I should clarify, I have a very big family. Yes, well, probably an Alid in it as well
14:07
not to stereotype. Michael, we spent the first hour of the programme wondering whether the
14:11
wheels were beginning to rattle. I don't think anyone's going to claim that they're coming off. I sense you think they are. Well, they're under a lot more pressure
14:22
They're not doing as well as they were. They're still in the 20s, the early 20s in the polls
14:26
which is way above the, what, 14% I think they got at the general election. So it's a huge
14:31
improvement. They're still ahead of the Conservatives in nearly every poll, apart from one yesterday
14:36
but they're as I said they're under pressure from Labour and the Conservatives in a much more serious
14:42
way now and this all these allegations not just about Christopher Harbourn but a whole string of
14:48
other allegations made by the Sunday Times and other papers about the finances of reform and
14:54
whether they've been taking money from asking whether they've been taking money from foreign
14:59
sources contrary to the law and all the stuff that going through this guy posh George George
15:04
Cottrell, who is a former convicted fraudster in the United States. All that is adding to the and diverting from what they want to do
15:13
which is put their ideas forward and go out and attract the public
15:17
And it's going to drag on for at least as long as this inquiry into Farage and the Harbourn money
15:23
and probably beyond that. Until now, they've had a pretty easy ride, I think, but it's changed
15:30
Just in conclusion, will you be reviewing or recalibrating your professional tactics as a consequence of this cruel snub
15:37
I will, and from now on I'm going to be, you know, licking parts of the reform body that..
15:43
That'll do nice things. Just to make sure that I'm allowed into the conferences from now on
15:49
Well, yeah, again, tongues in cheeks, hopefully. That's where they'll stay. Peter Gagan, will you be reviewing your approach
15:54
to the coverage of these sort of issues as a consequence of this cruel snub? What do you think, James
15:59
I wrote a piece today saying they can ban us from their conference, but they can't stop us reporting
16:04
And democracy says we will continue to report, we continue to report the money and influence and politics
16:08
wherever it leads us. And it's led us to reform recently, and we will keep going there as long as it leads us there
16:12
Democracy for Sale, of course, the name of Peter's organisation, somewhat fortuitously named, given the context of this conversation
16:20
Sam Bright, that's it for you, I presume. No more books, no more work at the smog. You're going to have to hang up your notebook and do something else
16:27
Yeah, I'm afraid so. if only reform believed in freedom of speech as much as we all do
16:34
And Will, it's not just you from The Guardian, is it? I think that Anna has been told that she's persona non grata as well
16:42
Yeah, several people from The Guardian. To be honest, I have never felt more endorsed
16:47
in how I carry out my journalism than I have to do today. Well, long may it continue. Thank you, chaps
16:52
Very much indeed. Peter Gagan there, Michael Crick, Sam Bright and Will Haywood
16:56
just some of the journalists that have been banned from the party conference of
17:00
the self-styled party of free speech, Reform UK
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