Up next in 10
The boss of JP Morgan has issued a bank tax warning to John Healey as the Chancellor gears up to deliver his first Budget in October. Jamie Dimon held a call with Healey where the bank chief emphasised “getting public policy right” as crucial to solving economic problems. City Editor, Simon Hunt, joins to discuss.
Meanwhile, a rising star in the Labour party, Henry Tufnell has endorsed a potential U-turn on drilling in the North Sea. The MP for Mid and South Pembrokeshire tells the podcast further oil and gas exploration would be for the benefits of the workers Labour aims to represent.
Plus: you've heard of working from home - now we take you inside the boardroom battle in which the Chairman of The Works has been accused of working... from New Zealand.
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0:00
Hello and welcome back to Business as Usual, brought to you by Halkin, with me Martin Kimber
0:04
And me, Matt Kenyon. Coming up on the podcast today, a rural Labour MP tells us he still
0:10
believes that Labour can win back farmers. And he gives his thoughts on that controversial alert
0:15
sent to the whole nation's phones over the weekend. JP Morgan boss Jamie Dimon issues a stark warning to the new Chancellor John Healy
0:22
on a potential rise in the bank tax. Plus, you've heard of working from home, but now one company's chairman is berated for working from New Zealand
0:31
Now, in just a moment, we're going to hear from that leading light in the Labour Party about whether the government can salvage its relationship with farmers and rural communities
0:40
It's a great interview. Matt Kenyon's done it with Henry Tufnell, the MP for Mid and South Pembrokeshire
0:47
And he doesn't hold back on that disastrous farmers inheritance tax and the emergency wildfires alert we all received on Friday
0:54
which I got at a wedding, which was absolutely hilarious. I got it in Hammersmith Station and mine was the first phone to come up with it
1:01
So I think people just thought I was crazy for playing some sort of wild podcast out loud
1:07
while trying frantically to make it stop. Firstly, let's get the latest from the Square Mile
1:13
So Andy Burnham's new chancellor, John Healy, has been benefiting quite a lot, I think
1:17
from the Rachel Reeves is gone bounce. There's always quite a lot of optimism when a new chancellor comes in
1:26
Obviously, the difficult decisions do eventually follow. It looks like we're seeing now some of the framing of the next budget
1:32
So our city supremo, Simon Hunt, joins us to talk about this
1:37
Simon, we've had a warning in no uncertain terms from JPMorgan's boss, Jamie Dimon, to the chancellor
1:44
What's he warning about? Yes. So John Healy, as new chants often do, has been ringing around the big banks, checking they all like him or whether they don't like him
1:53
And one of his first calls was, of course, to Jamie Dimon, one of the really big names on Wall Street
2:00
And Dimon said, listen, mate, you know, you better not put these taxes up anymore because we've had enough
2:06
And he said, you know, in no uncertain terms, you know, we could start moving jobs elsewhere if you put taxes up on us anymore
2:14
that's a pretty big threat because one one major bit of kudos that rachel reed's got from the
2:18
industry was from her close relationships with the banking sector the fact that um she was pretty
2:24
close to nick stronski that we're looking like we could get this big jp morgan tower and canary
2:28
wharf over the line this all feels more uncertain now than it did a few months ago yes and and as you
2:34
say uh diamond has talked about this massive canary wharf tower that jpm is planning to build
2:40
but he's dangling that above his head as a threat saying we won't build that
2:45
something that they say will deliver 3 billion in benefits to the economy if you put taxes up
2:50
Now, in fairness, JPM have been talking about this tower for about the last 20 years
2:55
and they haven't built it yet. But, you know, it looks like pretty certain
3:00
that this is nailed on now. But if taxes do go up too much on banks
3:04
he could pull it again. Is this the JP Morgan tower that's going to have like bunk beds and stuff for their..
3:08
Bunk beds? Well, the one in New York's got furniture designed for resting your head, I think
3:15
Should you need to pull a really, really late one? That's quite sort of early 2000s, Google office in Silicon Valley, beanbags
3:22
Very Corgi cafe in the street. Yeah, so this was planned 20 years ago
3:26
And then, obviously, the financial crash happened and Lehman Brothers went down
3:31
And so JPM were like, OK, we'll just move into that building instead. And they've been there ever since. Interesting
3:35
Oh, very good. Simon, why is Ed Miliband probably needing a stiff drink right now
3:41
Well, I mean, it hung over Ed Miliband's tenure as Energy Secretary for the last couple of years
3:46
As to whether he would grant permission for two new oil and gas fields around the Scotland area called Jackdaw and Rosebank
3:54
he was adamant throughout his tenure that he was not going to approve this
3:58
But now Burnham is in charge and he seems minded to give consent for these two oil and gas fields to go ahead
4:07
Well, we will have a Labour view from that later with Henry Tufnell, who also didn't hold back on that, did he, Matt
4:12
No, we talked about, I suppose, that difficult Labour relationship with oil and gas at the moment
4:17
Are you getting the impression, Simon, that this is going to be something that people like Miata Van Bulla
4:22
who's the new energy secretary, very much an ally of Ed Miliband, are simply now just accepting as a political reality that Labour will need to win if they hope to win the next election
4:34
Yeah, I think they are just accepting that as a reality. I mean, you know, Healy obviously has pledged to increase defence spending
4:40
That was why he resigned during the Starmer administration. The only way you can do that is by growing the tax base
4:47
And one big way of doing that is by allowing these drilling projects to go ahead
4:52
They're not the biggest in the world, these fields, but they are some of the biggest undeveloped
4:59
fields in the UK And so there is a big opportunity there if they do so I mean on the topic of drilling underground Richard Branson is taking the battle to Eurostar it was getting more
5:13
and more tangential I thought that's sort of held together but it looks as though Eurostar has its
5:19
first major competitor now this this did excite me as something of a bit of a train nerd myself
5:24
oh I can imagine yeah so virgin trains have been given the green light the green signal if you like
5:30
to begin operating as rivals to Eurostar's to Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam from 2030
5:38
So this is the first time there has been a competitor to Eurostar since the services began in 1994
5:45
Simon, just one last thing. You've heard of working from home. Who is working from New Zealand
5:52
This is a story about the works. people might know is a sort of stationer slash arts and crafts slash bookseller company. They
6:07
have an activist investor with quite a large shareholder called Kelso. And Kelso has been
6:12
having a go at them. Kelso wants to appoint new members to the works as board. And they've also
6:18
had a bit of a falling out, it appears with the company's chairman, who they accuse of having
6:24
spent most of his time as chair of the company in New Zealand, despite the fact they don't
6:29
actually have any New Zealand branches. They say they believe shareholders would benefit
6:33
from greater clarity regarding his physical attendance and in-person engagement with the business
6:39
Because it's one thing to be, I suppose, a senior member of a board
6:43
and to spend lots of time in the Lake District. But New Zealand is
6:47
obviously as far away as you can humanly be while still being on Earth
6:52
And it's also... Time zones don't really match up. Not great. So I suppose there's probably quite early mornings
6:56
and late nights being had to get on those Zoom meetings. What's especially amusing is that the works is now branded themselves as a screen free shop
7:04
You go to the works for screen free entertainment. So nothing you can buy from them can be used on a computer or whatever
7:10
It's all physical stuff. They don't even have a website anymore because they decided they're going to be screen free
7:15
And yet their chair is only interacting with the company via a screen
7:20
So there you go. Just lastly, speaking of screens, you were on television screens again recently, weren't you, Simon
7:26
Yes. You were on GB News. And we recently played the clip of a GB News presenter
7:34
quite unfairly, branding you as looking like you're 15. And you were back again recently
7:40
I was back and it seems I've become a bit of a household name over there
7:44
albeit for the wrong reasons, because people in the green room started referring to me as that 15-year-old
7:51
Well, it's good to be known. Yeah. It's the one thing worse than being talked about
7:56
Yeah, yeah. All publicity is good publicity. as far as I'm concerned. Well, Simon, thank you very much for joining us as ever. And coming up
8:03
after the break, the Labour MP and burgeoning social media star Henry Tufnell joins the podcast
8:09
to talk all about farmers inheritance tax, emergency alerts, and we'll ask him what is his
8:16
least favourite tax right after the break. Your office says a lot about your business
8:21
How can serviced offices sit in London's best locations designed to a standard you'd expect
8:27
from a five-star hotel with service that goes the extra mile. Discover Halkin, prime addresses, exceptional workspace design, award-winning service
8:37
Welcome back to Business As Usual. So earliest day, I spoke to a very interesting Labour MP about
8:44
it was touching on some of the things we've already mentioned in the programme about this kind of ideological battle ongoing in Labour at the moment
8:51
I mean, we're talking about energy, we've talked about farming, these sort of things which the Burnham government will be hoping that in the next few months and
9:00
into next year and into a possible early election they can try and write the Starmer ship on
9:06
Martin, you were pretty impressed by Henry. I was very impressed by him. We were kind of wargaming questions before he came in and I thought
9:14
he actually handled them very well on quite a lot of issues you'll hear. He is very diplomatic
9:19
but I think you can hear kind of some of his sentiments come through. He's a very fluent
9:25
speaker does a lot on social media as well. Yeah. So yes, this was Henry Tufnell, who was a 2024
9:31
intake MP in Pembrokeshire. And rural affairs very close to his heart. I began by asking him
9:38
about that new Andy Burnham 65 million pound rescue package for farmers who are at risk of
9:45
wildfires. Well, it's a good start. I think wildfires have been a big problem. It's something
9:50
that we've been looking into on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Select Committee. We've
9:54
had an oral evidence session around wildfires. I think one of the big issues we've got is
10:02
you have a changing climate that we can all see we're living it
10:07
And I think it should be thought of as part of our national resilience that how do we become more resilient as a country And every single part of government policy should be thinking about that
10:19
And when it comes to wildfires, I think one of the things that we've been thinking about on the committee and was part of that evidence session
10:28
was that if you have a policy, an agricultural farming policy, an environmental policy
10:35
which has the effect of destocking or taking animals off upland areas
10:41
through the way in which they're giving their environmental payments through schemes like the SFI
10:48
that's going to increase the fuel load, increase the amount of vegetation habitat on those areas
10:54
and therefore increase the risk of wildfire. so I think it's important that that resilience message gets right across government Whitehall
11:03
and that every different department is thinking about that and that we also have a pragmatic
11:09
practical approach to trying to deal with it. I suppose also a message that went out to every
11:14
single Brit with a phone on Friday because there was that quite quite sci-fi feeling moment where
11:18
everyone's phone went off and said avoid barbecues did you agree with that being used in that way and
11:23
being pioneered i suppose for for drought policy yeah i mean we we had the tricky thing in in
11:29
pembrokeshire where i think we have quite a low in terms of if you look at other parts of wales
11:33
um proportion of people who are speaking speaking welsh and the welsh version came out before the
11:39
english one so it's created a little bit of confusion uh locally um i think some of the
11:45
local outlets were sort of jumped on that a little bit so it's a bit tricky um but you know the it's
11:50
an important you know really important issue we don't you know we've got a national park pembrokesh coast national park got to have uh safety and protections around that um but you know
12:00
yeah there's always gonna be teething issues with stuff right so you've got to make sure that it
12:04
comes out the right time you don't cause confusion all that kind of stuff and yeah it'd be interesting to see how many times that gets used how sparingly or how often because it is a very powerful
12:11
system and one of the things that i find really interesting about you as an mp is i think more
12:15
than most labour mps you're balancing two really different sets of interests so that of pembrokesh
12:20
but also I suppose from your upbringing in the Cotswolds and like background in farming
12:25
but also farming within a few months of Labour coming in became the hot button issue
12:30
We all saw the farmers protests after the budget in 2024. I know that you disagreed with parts of that budget
12:37
Do you think that Labour can win back these sort of communities now
12:41
Yeah, I mean, if I didn't, there'd be no point. It would be bleak
12:46
No, no, I definitely think we can. I think we've, you know, obviously the issue you pointed to, the Inheritance Tax, we had a change there, which was a really positive, really welcomed one
12:57
And we've had some real positive movement within the part. To be blunt, we've moved from being an urban party to being a national party
13:05
And we now represent a huge amount of these rural coastal communities
13:09
And so we've had to build up expertise, build up sort of an organisation within the party about how we can advocate for those areas
13:17
So if you look at the Labour Rural Research Group, for example, that's a great example of Labour MPs coming together around rural issues and making sure that government and ministers understand what we need
13:28
This is the same for coastal as well. And these areas really need government support
13:33
They need people advocating for them, you know, setting out what is necessary around, as we talked about, wildfires or economic growth or better public services
13:42
It's great to hear there is that optimism, I suppose. As you said, it's a long way to come back from
13:47
The other big issue, which is becoming a really contentious one, we saw that quite striking Aberdeen South by-election a couple of months ago, where the Tories won a seat in that area on the issue of North Sea drilling
14:00
You were a bit of an outrider in the Labour Party. I know you wrote for The Sun a few months back, very much arguing for this, that we need to have a pragmatic, not an ideological approach
14:09
feels a bit like Andy Burnham might be swinging that direction too. Are you confident that Labour
14:15
will make what you think is the right decision on this? Well, I think the whole argument that I've
14:21
been trying to make and other colleagues are making as well, is that if we're not making this
14:26
then it's quite difficult to ascribe ourselves as the Labour Party. I mean, we've had the
14:31
conversation about farmers, and we could have, you know, becomes more nuanced in respect of
14:36
the history of farming and the conservative movement but i think for the labor party the
14:40
party of the industrial revolution you know if we're not thinking about energy in a pragmatic
14:45
sense then what are what are we i don't you know so we lose our identity if we aren't taking a
14:54
pragmatic approach to these kinds of issues i suppose i mean i think you definitely speak for
14:59
a huge swath of people definitely disaffected labor voters who might be quite turned off by
15:03
some of the rhetoric of the former, I suppose, Ed Miliband Energy Department leadership
15:09
Why do you think that Labour's been caught up on this for so long? And why do you think it taken so long I suppose for these messages to feel more mainstream in the party I think it comes back to that annihilation in 2019 and how you have a parliamentary party that a lot smaller and that is representing certain places in the UK and it doesn have that national identity
15:28
I think when the Labour Party now represents all corners of the country, it has a much more pure realistic viewpoint on some of these issues
15:38
So it therefore can come back into that pragmatic approach. And I think it has to in order to remain relevant as a party
15:46
You know, we're being challenged by reform, challenged by the Greens. The Conservatives have a little bit of a resurgence
15:52
Like if we don't dominate this ground and embrace our roots, our identity, who we are as a party and make that argument, what's the point
16:04
No, I think that's definitely true that something of the Labour identity got very, I mean, it's got very confused
16:09
There's been huge wars over it and even going into government. A lot of those questions from like the Miliband times and the Corbyn times still feel quite live
16:15
What was it that got you into the party in the first place? Because I can imagine that sort of growing up around Gloucestershire and the Cotswolds, you sort of alluded to the not very Labour heritage of farming
16:26
Did you feel rebellious? Well, I was. So I do think with farming that obviously the history, as we've talked about, but I think your primary producers, right
16:36
I think inherently the Labour Party is about that, about, you know, producing stuff at the point of production, making sure that those who are working for that have a fair cut of the pie, have a fair slice
16:47
But yeah, I mean, it's interesting conversations around the dinner table at home with my dad
16:53
My dad was a Conservative district councillor. I think my grandmother was chair of the local Conservative Association
16:58
So I don't come from a Labour Party family in that sense
17:02
But, you know, we're a broad church. We should welcome people from all parts of, you know, and if you want to be relevant in this national party
17:08
you can't only have people, a party of your party, who come, you know, whose parents were members or who, you know
17:14
so i think it i think it's important to have a wide variety of views and people in in the party
17:18
and you can see that um right through you know right way through can i ask you a final question
17:23
which is also a bit it's a bit pioneering for our format we want to we want to start asking people
17:27
this what is your least favorite tax my least favorite tax um my so i so i think it's about
17:37
would be about the high streets particularly in you know we've had this cut in england but there's
17:40
nothing in in wales we've got a problem particularly if you go to places like half a west in my
17:45
constituency where you you've got rid some of the bridge street on half west particularly is really
17:50
struggling and i think the local town council have been doing a really good job to try and
17:54
rejuvenate the the local high street and you know we've had money from centrally from uk government
17:59
but i think businesses there are really really need a break and those business rates um potentially
18:06
can become a bit punitive. So I think, and that balance between having a warehouse
18:13
with an Amazon delivery and trying to encourage, I don't think we've got that balance right
18:17
So I think probably my least favourite tax is around those business rates, penalising small businesses
18:23
that are trying to be on the high street in places like Huffer West and Pembrokeshire. I was very struck actually by his line on auto oil and gas
18:31
That was probably his punchiest line actually, just about, you know, Labour is supposed to be about working people
18:36
Yeah, and the idea of what is Labour? Because I mean, I touched on this discussion with him
18:40
but this idea of Labour being, even as it's come back into government, quite a lost party and one which, as Britain has de-industrialised
18:48
has really struggled to adapt to what its own workers are, what its own worker base is
18:53
We saw it, we've seen its base of seats swing wildly from, I suppose, losing the industrial north, getting it back
19:00
being at risk of losing it again. But it is people from those seats, like in Pembrokeshire and with people from Gloucestershire, such as Henry, who really, if Labour want to win the next election, they'll need people like that and MPs like that
19:12
I didn't bring this up with him, but he is, at the moment, the 85th most vulnerable Labour MP in Parliament
19:19
And they can only afford to lose 86 seats. Oh, wow. So that's the exact sort of seat
19:23
Obviously, that's not scientific, but that's the exact sort of seat they need to not lose if they want a credible majority in the next election
19:29
I thought it was fascinating what he said is that like Labour is no longer just an urban party now
19:34
And it has kind of expanded beyond that. And in my opinion, quite a lot of those ministers don't actually know anything about rural communities
19:41
There has been lots of London ministers. Now there's a lot of ministers from Manchester
19:45
I think the party is going to need to start talking very differently. The government's going to start talking very differently to make good on some of the things that he hopes for about it
19:52
Well, Henry, when you're Chief Secretary to the Treasury, you're welcome back
19:57
That's all we have time for today. Thank you very much for listening to Business As Usual, brought to you by Halkin
20:03
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20:07
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20:14
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20:19
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