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Henry Riley joins James O'Brien to lift the lid on the latest goings-on at Reform UK, where MP for Runcorn and Helsby, Sarah Pochin, has been posting on social media telling everyone about the success story that is one of her constituents: Ethel McGill. Ms McGill appeared in a video posted on social media claiming that Sarah Pochin 'needs to be in government now' after sourcing houses for both her and her son. There's just one problem with that: McGill was once exposed by the press as 'Britain's biggest benefits thief' after being jailed for 5 years following the theft of her father's war pension for 12 years after his death, among other things, to the tune of £740,000. Listen to the full show on the all-new LBC App: https://app.af.lbc.co.uk/btnc/thenewlbcapp #jamesobrien #henryriley #reform #reformuk #nigelfarage #farage #benefits #ukpolitics #politics #LBC LBC is the home of live debate around news and current affairs in the UK. Join in the conversation and listen at https://www.lbc.co.uk/ Sign up to LBC’s weekly newsletter here: https://l-bc.co/signup
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0:00
We are not slow to criticise politicians on this programme
0:03
particularly when they come from a party that seems to be populated by people possessed of very vile opinions
0:09
or in the most recent example, giving speeches in the council chamber to which they've just been elected
0:13
explaining why they don't understand anything, and therefore politics should stop until they... I forget the details
0:20
I don't understand the constitution. I have not had sufficient time to read that as yet
0:27
I don't understand what standing orders are. what they're made up of, nor do I understand what an amendment is
0:33
So it's nice to tell you that Henry Riley is here with a very uplifting tale of a Reform UK MP
0:40
helping a little old lady from her constituency. That's right. This all stems from a video, James
0:46
posted by Sarah Pochin, who you'll recall won in that by-election, safe Labour seat previously, she won by only six votes
0:53
She is the MP for Bruncourt and Hellsby, and she posted yesterday across her social media channels
0:59
across X, formerly Twitter, on Instagram and on Facebook with a video and the caption said
1:05
helping people like Ethel is why I love my job. And in the video, Ethel claims that within two days
1:11
of speaking with the reform, she was getting the help she needed and specifically cites an adapted two-bedroom bungalow
1:17
Curiously, though, James, within a few hours, the video was deleted from all of those social media channels
1:23
Fortunately, I recorded it and this was what Ethel says in that video
1:29
I got to get help because my son was sleeping in the woods because he threatened me, his mental health was
1:34
and he kept threatening me and neighbours would phone the police and he would be arrested, he'd get a wrist-wain in order of service so that means he couldn't come near me
1:40
He was sleeping in the woods and I was begging for help and I didn't get a bit of help and one day I was up in the city
1:46
and I seen this office and I thought wait a minute, that's an ideal fire. I said I think that man would help because he's for people, he's for people like me
1:53
And I came in this office and within five minutes of speaking to the man, I was getting the help I needed
2:00
And within two days I get the offer of a two bedroom bungalow that was fully adapted Well they fully adapted it It took me months to get into it but they fully adapted it for me And they helped my son get a flat his first flat and they got me his flat and now they helped me with his mental health
2:19
But Sarah, you should be in government, you should be in government now because everybody needs your help
2:25
Thank you. Everybody needs your help and we're not getting it anywhere
2:29
We're not getting the help we need. And if this office opened up, I would still be in that bungalow
2:34
And possibly the son could be dead. And that's gone to truth. Aw, it's lovely
2:39
Why didn't they delete it? Modesty, was it? You just sort of thought, you know, I'm here to quietly get on with improving people's lives
2:45
It's probably a bit inappropriate of me to be boasting about it and trying to make political capital out of this little old lady's plight
2:51
No, that's not the reason that it was deleted, James. Because I can reveal two things about Ethel
2:56
It is Ethel McGill, who, I mean, firstly, is actually an amateur actor whose acting CV says she plays a variety of roles from hard-hearted Glaswegian women, as well as other victims in her acting career
3:10
But more notably, she was dubbed by the Daily Mirror newspaper in 2019 as Britain's biggest benefits cheat after her involvement in a benefits scam
3:20
Sorry, what, pardon? Yes, Ethel McGill. And if you search Ethel Runcorn
3:24
I mean, it comes up pretty quickly on a Google search. Ethel Runcorn
3:29
So, because it's a rare, not even Ethel McGill. No, just the Christian name
3:33
And the town. And this is what you discover? It's what we discovered. Let me take you back to 2019, James
3:39
just to sort of understand the magnitude of this. So she was involved, convicted, of a £740,000 benefit scam
3:46
Sorry, what, pardon? The specialist prosecutor in the specialist fraud division at the CPS, the Crown Prosecution Service
3:52
said it was the largest case of benefit fraud by a single person that I've ever prosecuted
3:57
Now, important to say... And they got her a flat. They got her son a flat and they got her a bungalow. That is what Ethel claims in the video
4:02
Let me just take... Reform, by the way, Sarah Pochin says that they can't obviously vet who comes in
4:06
They get often 30 people a day coming into their office. They're trying to help. They can't do background checks
4:11
However in this particular case They could have Googled Ethel Wunkorn They could have Googled Ethel Wunkorn I suppose Ms McGill who in her 70s continued to claim her father Robert Dennison war pension and his benefits for 12 years after his death
4:25
as well as feigning dementia and claiming that she needed a wheelchair
4:29
However, investigators from the Department for Work and Pensions actually filmed her walking around and driving
4:34
despite claiming that she had debilitating illnesses for 30 years. At the time, the judge said
4:40
nobody, including me, believes that you're ill and that you've been putting this on for years
4:44
He said that she'd displayed breathtaking dishonesty and devious behaviour. Now, she ended up admitting fraud
4:51
She was jailed for five years and ten months, pleading guilty to 14 charges
4:55
from conspiracy to commit fraud, false accounting, false representation at Liverpool Crown Court
5:01
With regards to her late father, it was revealed at the court
5:05
that she would ask a friend to lie in bed and pretend to be her father when the Department for Work and Pensions authorities would visit the house
5:12
The prosecutor at the time accused her of making good use of her amateur dramatic skills
5:17
by fading dementia and to succeed in her own fraudulent benefit claims
5:23
But this was uploaded by Reform. The caption had said from Sarah Pochin that she was helping people like Ethel
5:31
is why I love my job. There aren't many people like Ethel. She is, as you said, one of the worst offenders ever
5:39
One of the worst offenders ever. I do need to tell you what Sarah Pochin has said in response to Reform UK MP
5:44
Her statement to us says, I try to be a hardworking local MP and I'm prepared to help anyone in Runcorn and Hellsby who asks for my help
5:51
As an MP, I have to take people at face value. We do not run background checks on people who come to us asking for support
5:59
My default is to trust constituents who ask us for help. I understand the individual concerned has served her time for benefit fraud
6:06
and the matters on which my office assisted her were entirely unrelated to that offence
6:11
Reform UK stands against benefit fraud and abuse of the system. Indeed, it's made very clear in their last manifesto, or the contract with the people as they called it
6:19
that that is the case They have a harder line stance than many other parties on benefits But the last line they say a responsible Member of Parliament must also deal with each case on its merits and support constituents who come forward asking for help
6:31
Fourteen charges, including conspiracy to commit fraud, false accounting, false representation. Do we know whether or not..
6:38
Do we know whether the account in the video that they took down is accurate
6:46
Do we know whether she did actually get a new bungalow and a flat for her son after the intervention of Sarah Pochin in her affairs
6:54
Yeah, well, she claims in the video, Ethel McGill, that within two days she was sorted with this adaptive bungalow
7:00
Sort of the understanding I have is that reform obviously can't do that
7:06
Sarah Pochin can't demand a bungalow for someone as much as you might want to as a local MP
7:10
But there is an understanding that in cases like this, if the local MP leans on the council or leans on someone
7:15
not necessarily saying this has happened in this case, but if you do lean, and MPs do this all the time
7:20
but put a bit of pressure on, you can some way speed up the process or certainly make clear your constituents needs help
7:27
And a flat for her son as well. I mean, it does seem like a bit of a jackpot
7:32
And I think it's fair to say Reform UK were not aware that she was the..
7:36
It is fair to say that they were not aware that she was done... It was the biggest benefits cheat
7:42
No one suggested that they would have been aware. Although, as you've pointed out, you could just Google Ethel Runcorn
7:46
and you'd have found chapter and verse on her involvement in a £740,000 benefit scam
7:52
And was uploaded on all the social media channels, as I say, and deleted just a couple of hours later
7:56
The largest case of benefit fraud by a single person that I, said the special prosecutor in the specialist fraud division at the CPS
8:03
have ever prosecuted. While you're here, have you got any contacts in Bury St Edmunds
8:08
Specifically on the reform branch. Yeah. No, I don't, I'm afraid. Come on, because they call me subhuman
8:14
Oh, did they? They call me subhuman. Yeah, I did see that. It was a post, wasn't it, on the social media site
8:19
Yeah, subhuman, mate. That's the Nazis. That's the sort of language the Nazis use
8:22
And do you know what happened when we got in touch with them? Go on. They asked for our help. They said, if you hear anything about who might have hacked our account, would you let
8:29
us know? I got back in touch with them immediately, so it was almost certainly the Russians
8:33
Must have been
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