Up next in 10
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this conversation, Kelly and Victoria discuss the intricacies of parenting, tackling the fine line between being the cool, laid-back parent and the strict enforcer. The examples they share, like expecting an 8-year-old to be independent or coddling a 15-year-old, hit home for anyone navigating the unpredictable terrain of parenting. Victoria expresses the struggle with parents either pushing their kids to grow up too soon or holding onto the reins for too long, creating a delicate dance of independence. There's also a nod to breaking free from traditional gender roles in parenting – because, yes, dads can do bedtime routines too. It's a crash course on maintaining sanity while parenting, wrapped up with a big shout-out to all parents out there, acknowledging that parenting is indeed the ultimate wild ride. If you've got burning questions or fancy joining one of Victoria's support groups, check the details below. Here's to navigating the parenting journey with a whole lot of love!
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:06
hi everyone I'm Kelly ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi
0:12
everybody thank you so much for tuning
0:14
in today I'm especially excited to have
0:17
our guest Victoria Brandt discuss with
0:19
us how to find and discover the pitfalls
0:23
of parenting specifically the
0:25
developmental age of teenagers we all
0:28
know that our brain regresses during
0:30
that part of our development and so it
0:32
becomes especially challenging as a
0:34
parent to meet and understand and
0:38
connect with our teens and so we've got
0:41
Victoria today who's going to share with
0:42
us some really helpful tools tricks and
0:45
information about how to better parent
0:48
our teenagers so Victoria tell us a
0:50
little bit about yourself and thank you
0:52
so much for being here today thanks
0:53
Kelly so I've been a clinician here at
0:56
infinite for 2 and a half years now
0:58
before starting here I was a teacher
1:01
worked in the school's um Head Start age
1:04
so 3 to five the littles and with that
1:07
population comes a lot of work with
1:09
parents so I got to partner with
1:11
families which really was my my favorite
1:14
part of the job really helping them
1:16
navigate what was going on with their
1:17
children how they could help more at
1:19
home Beyond just the academics things
1:22
when you think about becoming a parent
1:25
there is no instruction manual yeah
1:28
there is it so I talked my clients all
1:30
the time about this this is really just
1:32
the classroom for all of the life things
1:34
that you were not taught correctly or
1:36
you were taught by caregivers that maybe
1:38
didn't know the most appropriate things
1:40
and so you took that educational stance
1:43
and you were able to bridge that gap for
1:44
parents as an educator uh in your first
1:48
career absolutely awesome and then when
1:51
I came to infinite I first thought I was
1:53
going to be working you know exclusively
1:55
with Littles and through more advanced
1:58
trainings um and work working with the
2:00
lifespan clients across the lifespan I
2:02
realized I have a real passion for
2:04
working with teenagers but again
2:07
bringing in the family component and
2:09
helping their parents realize um how
2:11
they can be more effective in parenting
2:13
them and connecting with their teens and
2:16
and navigating all of the challenges
2:18
that come along with being a teenager
2:20
right and when you think
2:23
about the connection we have with
2:25
ourselves and our stories we've been
2:28
teenagers yeah know what it was like to
2:30
be a teenager and we know where our
2:32
parents didn't get it right or fell
2:34
short and so what an awesome opportunity
2:36
for you to kind of help educate families
2:40
bridge that Gap and help future
2:42
teenagers maybe have some of the things
2:44
that our parents missed because they
2:46
just didn't know what they didn't know
2:47
you know we're all doing the best we can
2:49
but when we're when there's gaps in what
2:50
we know we we the people that come to
2:52
learn you know and our viewers who are
2:54
trying to learn more about this they're
2:56
going to bridge those gaps because of
2:57
what they're learning so absolutely feel
2:59
so honored to one have you here to share
3:01
with us and also just in this work to be
3:04
able to reach a broader audience because
3:08
everybody turns into a teenager at some
3:09
point in their life yeah so you teach a
3:12
class here at infinite and I was so
3:14
excited when you went through this
3:15
training can you tell us a little bit
3:16
about it so it is dialectical behavioral
3:19
therapy whoa what's that I know it's a
3:21
mouthful we love the acronyms in in
3:24
therapy it is essentially a skills-based
3:27
therapy right so it is fantastic for
3:30
teenagers because what they need are
3:33
skills they need skills for how to
3:35
emotionally regulate how to tolerate
3:37
distress how to communicate in effective
3:40
ways and how to you know navigate their
3:44
relationships in better ways and that in
3:47
particular is the module that we're in
3:50
right now what's it called it's called
3:52
Walking the middle path okay awesome can
3:54
you say a little bit more about what
3:56
yeah why the why the name walking the
3:58
middle path is about balance so balance
4:01
in a lot of ways you can think about you
4:03
know perspectives between teenager and
4:05
parents sometimes it feels like you're
4:06
on opposite sides of the Grand Canyon
4:08
and how do we find any Middle Ground um
4:12
on how we move forward on issues that
4:13
come up conflicts that are super common
4:16
and it's also you know for ourselves
4:19
whether it's for the teenager or for the
4:21
parent to notice how do I find balance
4:23
in how I'm moving through life so
4:26
balance in a parental approach between
4:29
Maybe being too lenient versus too
4:31
strict awesome so I one of the things I
4:34
loved about you going to this is so many
4:37
practices or clinics offer coursework
4:39
specifically for the kid yeah or
4:42
specifically for the parents and they
4:44
don't teach both sides of the family
4:47
here are some set of ground rules that
4:49
we all should just know yeah and let's
4:51
learn them together let's practice them
4:54
together with a with a in a in a
4:56
non-threatening setting not in the
4:58
middle of some kind of conflict
5:00
and let's practice these same sets of
5:02
ground rules and skills so that we can
5:04
have better communication all the time
5:07
so that we can forge a pattern of
5:09
communication that's effective so I
5:11
really love that this course offers that
5:14
it just gives it gives it gives people a
5:18
chance to learn the things they didn't
5:20
learn before they had kids and also to
5:24
bridge that Gap especially during the
5:26
transition of a child Becoming a Teen
5:29
yeah you know when you think about the
5:31
communication I know that as a parent
5:33
one of the best tips I learned when my
5:35
kids were becoming Adolescent and teens
5:37
was and I don't even remember who told
5:39
this to me but uh they said you might
5:41
consider changing your language from
5:43
such directive language like pack your
5:45
backpack to you might consider if you
5:48
don't pack your backpack tonight you
5:50
might forget something tomorrow and so
5:52
it just changes the approach so that it
5:54
empowers the child to have the
5:56
opportunity to reason consider pros and
6:00
cons weigh the natural outcome that may
6:03
or may not happen and then ultimately
6:05
exercise agency in so doing and so I
6:08
love that little tidbit of what I
6:10
learned but it's really tricky when
6:12
people become teens and we get so uh
6:15
locked in on we want things to be the
6:18
way they we want things to be as parents
6:20
because we're managing so much and the
6:21
chaos of our family systems is lot to to
6:24
handle and we're not just parents we're
6:26
also employees and we're friends and
6:28
we're sisters and we're wives where all
6:30
of those things and so it's a lot to
6:31
navigate so in this course can you tell
6:34
me what you think is one of the most
6:36
important Concepts that is discussed for
6:39
parenting this age group yes and I will
6:42
bring it back to saying that it is a
6:44
game Cher to have the teenagers and the
6:46
parents in the room at the same time
6:48
going through this because it means that
6:51
it is not the burden is not on the
6:52
parents the parents aren't the problem
6:54
and the burden is not on the teenagers
6:56
it's not the teenagers who are the
6:57
problem it's the interactions and what's
6:59
going on between the two needs some help
7:02
awesome and so one of the best concept
7:05
one of my favorite Concepts that we talk
7:07
about to address this is
7:09
validation validation will give you the
7:12
keys to the kingdom when you are working
7:14
with parents and when you are working
7:16
with your teenagers and trying to get
7:17
things to go better for you so say more
7:19
about that validation is essentially
7:23
communicating whether with your both
7:26
with your words and non-verbally that
7:28
you understand where the other person is
7:30
coming from you understand uh how
7:33
they're feeling and that it makes sense
7:35
in a given situation so can you give us
7:37
an example of how this would be done
7:40
correctly maybe you know thinking of a
7:42
client case or a recent incident in one
7:43
of your courses where you were able to
7:46
demonstrate this and even maybe model
7:48
for or course correct what appropriate
7:50
validation might look like sure so let's
7:54
say someone is feeling upset it's really
7:57
just being able to come in and
7:58
communicate with your with your body
8:01
language and say oh man yeah I can tell
8:04
that does sound like it'd be really
8:05
upsetting you you sound really
8:07
disappointed about that so it's kind of
8:10
bringing a label or a word to what it
8:12
looks like the other person is feeling
8:15
and just giving them a sense that I get
8:16
it so empathy it's essentially empathy
8:20
right yeah empathy which is hard to do
8:22
when we as parents are caught up in our
8:24
own experience over what's happening yes
8:27
and we we are humans too and we get
8:30
activated and we get triggered because
8:31
of our own neurobiology when we are
8:33
faced with experiences that our kids
8:36
either go through or share with us so
8:38
can you tell us some of the pitfalls
8:41
that happened because of our
8:42
imperfection as a as a human parent and
8:46
uh and and what sometimes you see happen
8:49
although a parent might be attempting to
8:51
exhibit validation or empathy what what
8:54
do you see happen that are kind of
8:56
problematic behaviors and that get in
8:58
the way of this there are plenty of
9:01
pitfalls that parents inadvertently step
9:03
into right they are coming to coming
9:06
towards their teens with the best of
9:08
intentions and yet maybe they don't
9:11
agree with how their their teenager is
9:13
feeling they wish they weren't feeling
9:16
that way so they want to rescue them
9:18
from it right rather than acknowledge
9:20
that yeah you're feeling really sad
9:22
right now or you're really hurt they
9:24
kind of want to rescue them from that um
9:27
what does the rescue look like so one
9:29
example of rescuing that I can bring
9:31
from my own life story that I've
9:33
witnessed um be that when my when my
9:37
papa died I was with my younger sister
9:39
who at the time she's much younger but
9:41
at that time she was around 12 um and my
9:46
mom was trying to help her through this
9:48
and in doing so with beautiful intention
9:51
said oh honey it's okay you don't need
9:52
to cry don't be sad sweet girl it's okay
9:57
so much love pouring from my my mom in
9:59
that and yet it is rescuing her from
10:03
what is actually a really normal and
10:04
natural response to death and an attempt
10:07
to control her emotional experience
10:09
don't be sad yeah because of her own in
10:11
discomfort because she didn't want to
10:13
see her hurting right yeah and the
10:16
problem in that uh is that it
10:18
communicates inadvertently that don't
10:21
show sadness around me right and when it
10:25
maybe can lead to some mistrust in their
10:27
self of should I not be feeling sad
10:29
should I not cry is that not an okay way
10:32
to express sadness right should I keep
10:35
this in or am am the way that I want to
10:38
show emotions is it just wrong yeah am I
10:40
too much am I too much is I sad too much
10:42
for her and can she not handle it so all
10:44
those messages that get get internally
10:47
encoded for someone when when there is
10:49
that misattunement or that empathic
10:52
failure yeah that makes so much sense so
10:55
what's another Pitfall that you see
10:57
parents experience uh and and the
11:00
negative consequence of that Pitfall I
11:02
think a big one that parents fall into
11:05
again in a well-meaning way is problem
11:07
solving right failing to take that pause
11:11
to First acknowledge how their teenager
11:13
is feeling and kind of jumping over that
11:16
step to the problem solving stage right
11:19
and it comes with quite a few problems
11:21
like what what's a what's a negative
11:23
implication or impact from a parent who
11:25
jumps into problem Sol it kind of
11:27
conveys that the feeling around it
11:29
aren't as important you know I have a
11:31
recent example of of a growth
11:32
opportunity or I should say of an of an
11:35
area that I have been working on and
11:37
grown in my own parenting I was super
11:41
guilty of being a rescuing Problem
11:43
Solver and I think it had a lot to do in
11:46
my own story about so much falling on my
11:49
shoulders and then when one of my kids
11:52
would call with their overwhelm or
11:53
they're upset or wherever a mistake
11:55
happened in their
11:57
choices it's like because I'm barged
11:59
with so many problems in my life I have
12:02
a lot of people that I love uh I was
12:04
having a hard time tolerating that that
12:07
was happening instead of just realizing
12:10
I don't actually have to solve anything
12:12
and so I want to share a recent example
12:15
so my son has uh had a couple of issues
12:19
with being towed he parks in places that
12:21
are whether he misses a sign or whether
12:23
he uh thinks it'll just be a minute and
12:26
he'll get back in time before anything
12:27
negative happens and I mean it's it's
12:30
been a problem of of for him and and
12:32
cost him quite a bit of money and and so
12:35
he calls you know recently and he's U
12:37
really upset you know he's very
12:39
distraught he's very overwhelmed that
12:41
his car has been towed and he's so mad
12:43
and he's just kind of lashing out and
12:45
he's not lashing out at me and I used to
12:47
kind of feel like it was at me when he
12:48
would do this and he wasn't lashing out
12:51
at me he was just lashing out about it
12:53
and so I was just quiet and there was a
12:55
long pause after an initial lash out and
12:58
I I just said getting towed sucks so
13:02
hard it just sucks you feel so powerless
13:05
so betrayed so much shame because
13:08
somehow you did something wrong you know
13:09
it's just a shitty shitty feeling and he
13:12
was just like you know and I was only a
13:14
little bit in the red you know and I
13:17
resisted my impulse to go well there's a
13:20
lesson and I was just like man just the
13:22
tiniest mistake has such a negative
13:25
impact I'm just so sorry for you that
13:26
you are going through this right now and
13:29
it built connection for us and then you
13:32
know he comes back later a couple days
13:34
and he goes you know I saw pictures and
13:36
it was actually worse than I thought you
13:38
know and if I was the person that was
13:40
impacted by someone parking there I you
13:42
know I don't know if I would have called
13:43
the toe company but I I definitely would
13:45
have gone and knocked on their door if I
13:46
was really tired of having to deal with
13:48
this so he came in a much more
13:51
integrated way afterwards because he
13:53
learned something from the experience
13:55
and you know I think we don't often
13:57
times give our kids credit that they
13:58
would will learn that emotion is a
14:00
powerful teacher and they will learn
14:02
from these negative consequences
14:04
especially if we can be a safe place to
14:06
land for them to call and we don't have
14:08
to take on the onus of fixing it yes
14:12
exactly and so I think you also dipped
14:15
into uh one of the other pitfalls that's
14:17
common that's what did I do what did I
14:20
do no you you addressed it but you
14:22
didn't fall into it um but it's similar
14:25
to problem solving which is wanting to
14:27
teach a lesson in some of these moments
14:30
oh good that's a twofer on me yeah I
14:32
would have done the other too like well
14:33
what did you learn in such a almost
14:35
condescending way and I'm just over it I
14:37
don't want to be that way so and I think
14:39
that's one of the biggest reasons why
14:41
parents fall into these is they wish
14:42
their kids didn't feel a certain way
14:44
they don't agree or they see they can
14:47
see with kind of their adult lens that
14:51
well hello the of course you know a
14:53
leads to B leads to C so this is why
14:56
you're here but if we can't sit with
14:58
them and acknowledging like it sucks so
15:00
bad to get towed doesn't it right that
15:03
connection will let it be way more
15:06
effective when we do help them problem
15:08
solve when we do teach the lesson and
15:10
you know now that you mention it what I
15:12
real realized I did is after he had
15:14
calmed down and after he'd kind of
15:16
gotten himself a game plan on what he
15:17
was going to do next I go this is why
15:20
adults are so anxious about parking I'm
15:22
like cuz it's just the worst feeling and
15:24
you know you tease me that I'm so
15:26
anxious about things but I've been
15:29
and it's expensive and it's inconvenient
15:31
and it's so frustrating I just don't
15:32
want that to happen again so I'm really
15:34
cautious about the signage and the
15:36
timing and all of those things and so
15:38
this is these are this is one of those
15:40
things that happens in our life that
15:42
that that we use to make different
15:44
choices later and so you know I was able
15:46
to say that and he just laughed at me
15:48
cuz I think he was seeing it as well
15:51
yeah you know so thinking about these
15:53
pitfalls that we've talked today and you
15:56
talking about this middle path at the at
15:57
the beginning of our episode when you
16:00
think about
16:01
balance what what does that look like to
16:03
you as far as balancing you know how do
16:06
we direct how do we parent how do we
16:08
leave room for them so there are a few
16:10
different kind of things that happen as
16:12
far as uh lack of balance in parenting
16:16
specifically with parental approach can
16:18
be the spectrum of being too loose
16:21
versus too strict so often times parents
16:24
will land far on one end of the spectrum
16:27
or the other
16:29
or what we see is they're on one side
16:32
things are too loose there's not a whole
16:34
lot of boundaries the expectations are
16:36
not clear communication is not clear and
16:39
then they notice that things feel a
16:40
little chaotic and they swing to the
16:42
other end of the spectrum and get really
16:44
rigid and really strict and that
16:46
inconsistency causes a lot of problems
16:48
in the family system that makes sense we
16:51
can't teach our kids that everything's
16:53
going to be loose and that we're not
16:55
going to have any we're not going to
16:56
express any expectations and then all of
16:57
a sudden they aren't meeting our
16:59
imagined shoulds and supposed to and
17:02
then we're mad at them when in fact it's
17:05
a boundary issue we haven't expressed
17:08
the way that things need to look in the
17:10
home and the structure wasn't clear and
17:12
so kids will find the edges whatever
17:15
those may be and they they really do
17:17
want the structure they want to know how
17:19
to be successful they want consistency
17:21
and so when we as parents don't follow
17:23
through with that we then like you said
17:26
try to course correct and we just become
17:28
over the top and try to overpower
17:30
control and and what problem does that
17:32
create well yeah the reason why this
17:34
matters is it leads to so much conflict
17:37
in the household teenagers are resentful
17:39
the parents are resentful that nothing
17:41
is happening in the way that as you said
17:43
they imagined it would play out in their
17:45
head and we're blaming blaming to
17:47
discharge our pain and discomfort you
17:49
know fix my kid they they they and it's
17:51
my favorite when a parent comes in and
17:53
they they they and I go well we're going
17:55
to have to look at this whole
17:57
environment I'm not treating your child
17:58
in a vacuum and I need you to understand
18:01
that you are the foundation of the
18:02
experience and you are actually the one
18:04
with the power and control so we're
18:05
going to have to have some hard
18:06
conversations to get this short up and I
18:09
think that the parents listening to this
18:12
are one step ahead because they're
18:14
they're intentionally initiating
18:16
learning for themselves and I think the
18:18
kids that are going to benefit from that
18:20
that's pretty awesome yeah you know all
18:22
the parents that I've worked with are
18:23
just phenomenal wonderful parents and
18:27
you don't know what you don't know right
18:29
and when we frame it up that way it
18:30
becomes a lot easier pill to swallow
18:32
yeah I didn't know that this was going
18:34
to cause that and then they were going
18:36
to act this way and I have to look in
18:37
the mirror at my part in it and as
18:39
parents unfortunately we really have to
18:42
take a lot of the ownership MH on the
18:46
system that we've created in our homes
18:48
CU we are the ones with the choices
18:49
whereas our kids are just there right
18:52
without the choices so when you think
18:55
about some of the ways that people
18:58
parent without balance what's another
19:01
error that you see a big one is either
19:06
forcing kids to be independent too soon
19:09
when that's not developmentally
19:11
appropriate when the Readiness and
19:12
skills are not there or fostering
19:15
dependence right so the parents are
19:18
wanting the kids to be and their
19:19
teenagers to be dependent on them too
19:22
long when that's also not
19:23
developmentally appropriate trying to
19:25
instill too much Independence too young
19:28
what are what are some can you think of
19:30
an example where you've seen that sure
19:32
it it happens a lot when there's an
19:34
oldest in the in the family system and
19:37
even if that oldest is only eight or
19:39
nine the the expectations are a little
19:42
bit different because the comparison the
19:44
others are three and four and so you're
19:46
eight you should be able to XYZ fill in
19:49
the blank there when should they really
19:52
and also that's a really shaming way to
19:54
say it yeah but we see that right and so
19:58
this expectation that there should be
19:59
more Independence um and kind of forcing
20:02
that especially if parents are
20:04
overburdened right if there's too much
20:06
on their plate the demands of Life are a
20:09
little bit too much and so really
20:11
wanting their kids to have more
20:13
Independence but they're not ready yet
20:15
it's so hard it's so hard and it sends
20:17
such a it sends such a hard message to
20:19
the child when they are expected to be
20:22
something they're not developmentally
20:23
ready to be yeah they need a little bit
20:25
more support the flip side of that which
20:28
we see a lot nowadays is that parents
20:31
are not ready to let loosen up the rains
20:34
not ready to let their kids fly out of
20:36
the nest a little bit and instead want
20:38
to keep some of that dependence on them
20:41
so that they have a purpose so that they
20:43
can say but I'm the parent and I've
20:46
heard parents in in uh one of the
20:47
classes that I teach say well you know
20:50
but I'm a stay-at-home mom so I really
20:52
should be putting their clothes away and
20:54
I go your child is 15 your child needs
20:57
to learn how to do homework put their
21:00
clothes away do their laundry so that
21:02
when they leave they are capable and
21:05
they have the resilience to tolerate the
21:07
demands of life and they're not mad at
21:09
you saying I don't know how to do all
21:11
this my mom did it all for me so we
21:13
create a that lack of independence by
21:17
overfunctioning uh with our kids as well
21:20
so correct that's problematic and it's
21:23
it's not fair but it does happen a lot
21:25
more with moms because sometimes you
21:28
know you are in that role of being
21:29
everything from day one right and that's
21:32
a wonderful role to be in but learning
21:35
how that can change and evolve over time
21:37
what it means to be mom has to change a
21:40
little bit right and and for the dads
21:42
out there what it means to be dad has to
21:44
change a little bit so that you're not
21:47
you know parenting a 17-year-old child
21:51
you're parenting a 17-year-old near
21:53
adult correct and some of the societal
21:57
norms and gender gend roles that we have
21:59
placed on you know specific genders for
22:02
those roles those really need some
22:04
course correction too you know dads need
22:06
to hug and kiss their kids dads need to
22:08
tuck in their kids dads need to bathe
22:10
their kids you know and and and moms
22:14
need to work sometimes and moms need to
22:16
go do some of these other things and
22:19
kids need to see that we can we can rely
22:23
on one another in our family system to
22:25
have different roles and so all of that
22:28
flexibility does create a lot more
22:29
flexibility in the child which which is
22:31
kind of cool too it's another way that
22:33
we need balance right it's not just
22:36
between different types of Parental
22:37
approaches but balance within the the
22:39
parents themselves right can both
22:41
parents show up in an equal way to to
22:44
help the teens and does the kid have
22:47
they been taught that I can go to either
22:50
parent for and has the parent received
22:52
that so that that becomes the pattern of
22:55
the child all these cool things to look
22:57
at when when it comes to Parenting um I
23:00
really thank you for this conversation I
23:02
think it's ever so important with
23:04
parenting parenting is in my opinion the
23:07
hardest job and pretty much the most
23:09
thankless job that there is until
23:11
they're like in their mid late 20s they
23:12
don't really get how much it takes and
23:15
that as parents we're just humans too
23:17
trying to navigate and negotiate these
23:19
unchartered territories and so I really
23:22
appreciate you being here and all of the
23:25
awesome work that you do for the
23:27
families that are lucky enough to see
23:28
you thank you so much everyone for
23:30
tuning in we know this is a hard
23:32
conversation but you're better equipped
23:34
for having listened and we're grateful
23:37
for you to have put in the time and
23:39
energy to improve this area of your life
23:42
and if you have any questions or would
23:44
like to participate in one of Victoria's
23:45
upcoming groups you can find the link
23:48
below and so I hope you move forward
23:51
today and all days leading with love cuz
23:54
it'll never steer you
23:56
wrong
24:00
[Music]
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you
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