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What You Should Know about Divorce from a Trauma Informed Lawyer
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Feb 6, 2025
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! Going through a divorce can be one of the most challenging experiences in life. In this video, a trauma informed lawyer shares essential advice to help you navigate the process smoothly and protect your rights. From understanding the legal steps involved to managing emotional and financial challenges, you'll gain valuable insights on how to handle divorce with confidence. Whether you're just starting the process or are in the midst of it, this guide will provide the clarity and support you need. I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing! I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all. -- Links -- https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
View Video Transcript
0:06
hi everyone I'm Kell ooro and this is
0:09
adaptable Behavior explained hi
0:12
everybody thank you so much for tuning
0:14
in today to our show adaptable uh we're
0:17
going to talk today about divorce the
0:19
kinds of divorce that people get and
0:21
most importantly some of the choices
0:23
that we can make to make it the least
0:25
adversarial and least traumatic
0:27
experience that that that can be divorce
0:30
inherently is not a fun process and so
0:33
with us today I have uh my esteemed
0:36
colleague her name is Diane solivan she
0:38
is a family law attorney and uh she's
0:41
got a bunch of other feathers in her cap
0:43
related to why she's an excellent choice
0:45
to have as a guest on our show today and
0:47
so I'm so grateful for you being here
0:50
today and I would like you to just
0:51
introduce a little bit more about
0:53
yourself and and who you are and why
0:55
this is a a topic that you felt
0:58
passionate about sharing with our
0:59
audience well like you said my name is
1:01
Diane I'm a family law attorney um I've
1:03
been an attorney probably about 25 years
1:06
now um I am was a former judge I sat on
1:10
the criminal bench for approximately 16
1:12
years um I was a prosecutor I was a
1:14
domestic violence prosecutor um I did
1:16
criminal defense so I've basically had
1:18
the rare privilege to wear every hat in
1:22
the courtroom and what I've seen with
1:24
people going through a divorce is that
1:26
it's like you said not a fun process not
1:29
an easy process process for people to go
1:30
to and I found that as attorneys if we
1:34
can just learn to meet people where they
1:37
are um in their process in their moment
1:40
in their emotions we can just do be so
1:43
much more helpful in this in this
1:46
process right well and it's so traumatic
1:48
in nature generally speaking because
1:50
we're going to suffer a loss uh you know
1:52
we have to think about the picture that
1:54
we had when we chose to get married and
1:56
what we wanted to have as far as our
1:58
life and our future and then we have to
2:00
grieve the loss that this is not going
2:02
the way that we wanted and so it's it's
2:04
traumatic in nature for most of us if we
2:06
go through a divorce um can you tell me
2:09
a little bit why what your understanding
2:12
about trauma and why you know so much
2:14
about trauma well I know so much about
2:16
Trauma from my own Journey um I have
2:19
complex post-traumatic stress and I
2:21
started my own work and I once I had
2:26
that kind of information and that kind
2:28
of healing and that kind of recovery I
2:30
thought how do I not pay this forward to
2:33
people in general but especially my
2:35
clients so I I tell my clients when they
2:38
meet with me the first time our office
2:40
is holistic we do things differently I
2:42
mean we not only will we will get you on
2:44
the other side of your divorce or or
2:46
custody case I said but we talk about
2:48
healing we talk about mental health we
2:50
talk about self-care we talk about
2:53
making sure that we are understanding
2:55
all of your questions and meeting all of
2:56
your needs I found that that really gets
3:00
rid of at least 50% of people's anxiety
3:03
just that they know the process there's
3:05
someone to walk them through it to
3:07
answer questions that in of itself
3:09
really helps sure well and being heard
3:11
but but I can't imagine in law school
3:13
you guys get very much training on
3:15
mental health and how to show up for
3:17
somebody related to mental health so how
3:20
how have you learned that piece yeah we
3:21
we get none um I have a I have a uh uh
3:25
my bachelor degree is in Behavioral
3:26
Health so that that gave me at least a
3:28
foundation but but there's as attorneys
3:31
you just really have to have the
3:33
wherewithal to get that education um we
3:36
often as attorneys get very stressed out
3:38
by our clients because we feel like
3:40
they're not listening to us they're not
3:42
getting us what we need to help them win
3:45
or get the result that that they want
3:48
and what I found is that that's mostly
3:50
our fault because we're not meeting them
3:53
where they are so not only do you have
3:55
clients showing up better and more
3:57
receptive to what you're saying you as
3:59
an attorney you're not getting as
4:00
stressed out because your clients
4:02
actually hear what you're saying and can
4:04
show up as the best them to help you get
4:08
what they want in their case right well
4:10
and I imagine that if someone isn't in
4:13
their prefrontal cortex because they're
4:15
flipped out and they're they're
4:17
triggered because of whatever they're
4:18
going through it's not even maybe that
4:20
they don't want to get you or they don't
4:21
want to be cooperative it's that they
4:23
are not online to take in the
4:26
information you're asking because
4:27
they're so emotionally distraught and
4:30
and um simply can't they can't they
4:32
can't digest what you're asking them to
4:34
do and so you having more awareness
4:36
about where the client is and and like
4:38
you said meeting them where they are so
4:40
that they can um you know you might need
4:43
to repeat it or go hey like I don't know
4:46
that that got in can you can you share
4:48
back with me what I need you to do
4:50
before we meet again just to get us all
4:51
on the same page and you might have more
4:53
understanding about what that looks like
4:55
because of what you're talking about
4:57
today I I can't imagine many lawyers are
4:59
that in tuned uh in tune about this yeah
5:03
not not a lot of us are like I said it
5:05
takes the initiative to get this kind of
5:08
an education just like we as lawyers are
5:10
not taught how to run businesses either
5:11
it's something that therapists exactly
5:14
no idea and we're not getting n MBA
5:16
somewhere it's you know it's it's either
5:18
it's additional post law school training
5:21
so especially as family practitioners
5:24
that's just it it it's so important and
5:26
how I describe a client self-care and
5:28
meeting their own mental Health needs
5:30
it's is I tell them the the reason's
5:31
twofold why I'm such a proponent of it I
5:34
said one is purely selfish I said I want
5:37
to get you the result you want I want to
5:40
win you're you're your case fore people
5:41
understand the winning analogy I I said
5:44
so I need the best you I can't do it by
5:46
myself I need the best give us so many
5:48
referrals yes exactly I said that's the
5:50
selfish reason I said The more selfless
5:53
reason is I I'm human you're human I
5:55
said I have this information I know how
5:57
life-changing good mental health care
5:59
can be
6:00
how do I not pass that on to every human
6:03
not just I see that you have a rock in
6:04
your shoe I can just watch you walk
6:06
around on it or I can say you know you
6:07
could get that rock out of your shoe and
6:09
help you know regulate your emotions so
6:11
you can show up when your best best self
6:14
so what kind of law do you practice I
6:16
practice what falls under the umbrella
6:18
of family law most people don't know
6:20
what that entails a family law is
6:22
divorce is um legal separation things
6:25
like en nment so all basically different
6:27
ways to end or uh SE seate a marriage um
6:31
child what we used to call custody we
6:33
don't call it that in Arizona anymore
6:35
but most people understand the word
6:36
custody um perhaps you you haven't been
6:39
married but you have children together
6:40
how do we navigate that now that we're
6:42
not um in any kind of relationship
6:44
together um things what used to be
6:47
called grandparents rights we lawyers
6:48
have to call everything fancy so we call
6:51
it in Latin it's called inoco parus
6:53
rights it's basically any kind of
6:54
thirdparty Rights um over a child that's
6:57
considered family court is that how that
6:59
works so like if if if parents didn't
7:01
have a will or any guardianship
7:03
indicated if they were both in a car
7:05
accident at the same time is that where
7:06
grandparents have some inherent rights
7:09
if they stepped forward or is that not
7:11
how that works in that situation no
7:13
that's a guardianship that would go
7:14
through juvenile court but if you have
7:16
at least one living parent and there is
7:18
a third party regardless if there's a
7:20
biological relationship or not that
7:22
wants some sort of decisionmaking or
7:24
parenting time over that child that's
7:25
filed in Family Court okay yeah child
7:28
support spousal maintenance those all of
7:30
that falls under the umbrella of family
7:32
court so that's the kind of law that
7:35
you're dealing with is likely at least
7:37
somewhat contentious yes I mean you know
7:40
even the what we call a a nice a nice
7:43
case where it's uncontested it's like
7:45
you said earlier it's a traumatic event
7:47
even if people are are working together
7:49
amicably to reach an an an outcome that
7:52
they can both live with it's still
7:54
traumatic sure so so there's a lot of
7:57
Buzz going around about this term called
7:59
collabora divorce tell me a little bit
8:00
about what that is collaborative divorce
8:03
is a respectful outof Court private way
8:08
to get divorced when you say private
8:09
what's that mean it means that none of
8:12
the communications none of the what you
8:14
would referred to as evidence is is ever
8:17
made public record it is all done out of
8:20
court as part of a team and when I
8:23
explain this process to people they'll
8:24
usually say well we're we're splitting
8:26
up we're not together we can't do
8:27
anything as a team the team is your team
8:30
so all you as the parties have to do is
8:33
recognize okay we don't want this to
8:35
ruin our lives and our children and what
8:38
can we do to reach a resolution where
8:41
we're not at each other's throats and
8:43
get on the other side of this with some
8:45
respect for each other and love going
8:48
forward for our children okay and who
8:50
would be on that team as far as a
8:51
collaborative divorce is concerned it
8:53
depends the team can be as big or as
8:54
small as you want it so at minimum
8:56
there's two attorneys each party has an
8:58
attorney um there's things like a child
9:00
specialist That's on board that will
9:02
help people um craft a parenting plan
9:06
and a child you know uh sharing schedule
9:09
that works for them and works for their
9:10
children there's a financial neutral
9:13
which that person reviews all of the
9:15
parties finances and assets and helps
9:17
them come up with the best way to divide
9:19
those assets taking into account things
9:21
like um Taxation and taxable transfers
9:24
and things like that and and spousal
9:26
maintenance and all those things um
9:28
there can be a communication coach which
9:30
basically is going to teach people how
9:32
to just better communicate not only with
9:34
each other but their children so those
9:37
are usually the main players but there
9:39
can be mediators there can be uh
9:41
sometimes mental health professionals
9:43
sometimes okay we're going to have Mom
9:45
Andor dad's counselor be a part of this
9:48
collaborative process so what you you
9:51
mentioned mediation what what is
9:53
mediation and what's the difference
9:54
between that and for example a
9:56
collaborative divorce it's similar in
9:59
that it's an outof court process
10:01
mediation usually occurs when there is
10:04
um already a matter pending in Family
10:06
Court although you can't have
10:07
pre-mediation filing but that's usually
10:09
a yeah pre filing mediation um but
10:12
usually the difference is that there's
10:14
already a process going on but the
10:16
similarity is that you're working
10:17
together to reach a resolution that
10:20
works for both of you that you too had
10:23
ownership in crafting um and it's
10:26
usually so people who might get along
10:28
you know a little better but they've
10:29
just decided we shouldn't be married
10:31
anymore might be okay just using a
10:33
mediator yeah yeah and usually and
10:35
sometimes when you do a mediation
10:37
process sometimes each party still has
10:38
an attorney it it's not necessarily
10:40
something that you can't have an
10:41
attorney to do mediation uh the mediator
10:44
is a third party neutral I'm a trained
10:46
mediator so as part of my practice I
10:48
also act as the mediator um so you'll
10:51
have the mediator and you'll have both
10:52
the parties sometimes with lawyers
10:54
sometimes without lawyers and the
10:55
mediator helps them get to a resolution
10:58
sometimes that's a what we call a global
11:00
resolution meaning that's everything
11:02
we're fighting about everything on the
11:04
table we've resolved everything we're
11:05
going to put it in writing and file it
11:06
with the court sometimes it's what's
11:08
just called a partial resolution and
11:10
even that's fantastic so maybe just you
11:12
have 10 issues and eight you agree on
11:14
that's great right and maybe you just
11:15
have to have the court sa quite a bit of
11:17
money yes CU otherwise you're putting
11:19
whatever this is into a into a judge's
11:21
hands into a judge's hands who's known
11:23
you five minutes right it's it's it
11:26
would scare me right if I if I was in
11:28
that that process and both collaborative
11:30
divorce and and they're not mental
11:31
health trained at all judges are most
11:33
they not okay and most and they are not
11:36
they are given
11:38
approximately less than 10 hours of
11:41
family law training and sometimes they
11:43
already well into their judicial
11:45
appointment before they even receive
11:47
that training because it's only offered
11:48
twice a year wow so a lot of people
11:51
probably are very unaware that I'm going
11:53
to go through this process and I'm going
11:55
to trust the system to look out for my
11:57
best interest when in fact you you know
11:59
there's no way a judge wouldn't also
12:01
have bias around how they make a choice
12:03
because yeah you know as a mental health
12:05
professional everyone has bias right you
12:07
know judges are trained and I know many
12:09
judges being a judge myself they take
12:11
very seriously that role of being
12:13
neutral and judging the facts but it's
12:15
it's inherent and usually subconscious
12:17
and most judges don't have they they're
12:19
not Family Court they're not they've
12:21
never been family practitioners before
12:23
so well and you could I mean just from
12:25
what you're saying today it sounds to me
12:27
like collaborative divorce if you can if
12:29
you can get in agreement with the the
12:31
person you're divorcing would be the
12:33
best because at least then there's
12:34
people in with proper training that are
12:35
looking out for outcome you know whether
12:38
it's Financial or whatever and if we're
12:39
looking at being you know balanced
12:41
humans we want things to resolve in a
12:44
way that's the most reasonable and fair
12:46
and that you have ownership of that you
12:48
are part of that process agree and
12:50
disagree and whatever else well and how
12:51
I usually um sort of sell collaborative
12:54
to people is because again they're
12:55
saying we're not getting along We can't
12:57
agree to do that but most people can
12:59
they would like a faster less expensive
13:03
process okay sure want to save money and
13:06
not be doing this for and collaborative
13:08
and mediation are almost always quicker
13:12
and less expensive okay so you would say
13:14
that like that would be the best way to
13:16
get a divorce if you're like I we have
13:18
to do this absolutely okay and is that
13:20
only if you have children or is a
13:21
collaborative divorce still beneficial
13:23
if you don't even have children it and
13:25
it can be coll a collaborative process
13:27
doesn't even have to be divorced you
13:28
could have collaborative custody process
13:31
anything can be handled in that in that
13:32
collaborative so even after you've been
13:34
divorced could you get a collaborative
13:36
person to help you figure out better
13:38
custody based on okay what's the
13:40
difference between that and for example
13:42
a Kobe a CO Kobe is a court appointed
13:45
behavioral intervention so in a Kobe
13:48
process there has to be an avalable to
13:50
the court that there are no uh parental
13:52
Fitness issues there has to already be
13:55
whether it's a permanent or a temporary
13:57
parenting time order
13:59
and the goal of the Kobe is to get the
14:02
parties and the children to the point
14:04
where the children are being are that
14:07
order is being followed because normally
14:09
a Kobe process starts and you have
14:11
children that don't want to see one
14:12
parent that's normally how it starts the
14:14
Kobe's goal is to get the children back
14:16
to whatever the current custody
14:18
Arrangement is okay so let me ask you
14:21
this because I I just saw that a recent
14:23
house bill in Arizona came out have you
14:25
been familiarized with the uh I'm not
14:28
exactly sure what it is but uh maybe you
14:31
could speak more to that but essentially
14:33
this house bill prevents requiring
14:35
reunification with parents is this uh
14:38
what are your thoughts on this new bill
14:40
it it's actually very narrow and is
14:43
really just meant to prevent what I
14:45
always used to call the nuclear option
14:48
in Family Court I've only seen it happen
14:50
once or twice what do you mean when you
14:52
say a nuclear option and that is just my
14:54
catchphrase but basically what it means
14:56
is that if you have a situation where
14:57
one parent up where the children are not
15:00
seeing one parent you have the the
15:02
children who are with the one parent
15:03
that's called the favored or the aligned
15:05
parent aligned parent I see this from a
15:07
mental health angle and it's very hard
15:10
to do and then you have the other parent
15:11
that's the less favored I don't even
15:13
know what the term is but basically the
15:14
parent that's not seeing the the child
15:16
what the nuclear option was is is the
15:20
court ordering a 100% shift in parenting
15:25
time to the nonf favored parents and
15:29
giving either no visitation it's usually
15:32
no visitation for a short period of time
15:34
no contact no nothing with the favored
15:37
parent it's a complete just just shut
15:40
down of that parents what the thinking
15:42
behind that um formerly having do to
15:46
that is usually done in a case where we
15:48
think the alignment is happening because
15:50
of the favored parent not because of
15:54
abuse or something that is legitimately
15:56
happened to the child by the non allign
15:59
so I've seen this a couple of times I'm
16:01
wondering if that's not going to be a
16:03
requirement what is going to be the way
16:04
to solve for that because it's amazing
16:07
how children can become so aligned with
16:10
with the favored parent and how you know
16:13
every time I've seen it it's very
16:15
manipulative and it's so mentally toxic
16:18
and dysfunctional but if they don't hear
16:21
they don't know it or they're unwilling
16:22
to see that part of things you know what
16:25
how will we solve for this in the future
16:27
when it comes to a legal thing if that's
16:29
not how we try to solve for this you
16:31
know dis disrupting of that alignment
16:33
that's done maliciously whether it's
16:35
knowingly or unknowingly it is that Kobe
16:37
or that therapeutic process and I have a
16:41
case right now where this is similarly
16:43
what's going on and it's basically you
16:44
exhaust all of those options before you
16:47
ask the court be like all right you know
16:49
what I think maybe we need a change in
16:51
our parenting time order due to the
16:54
favored parents refusal to correct
16:58
either their behavior that that's
17:00
causing this or to be part of the
17:02
solution to reunify that child with the
17:05
other parent because you know as well as
17:07
I do sometimes it is a situation where
17:09
the favored parent doesn't really
17:10
understand the damage they're doing
17:12
right so they either need to be educated
17:14
and correct their behavior or that's
17:17
then when the court steps in right and
17:19
saying you're you know you're just not
17:20
getting it and this is causing damage to
17:22
the children that you're you're not
17:23
seeing yes right because ultimately if
17:26
we have good enough parents um you know
17:29
whatever that looks like whether it's a
17:31
man and a woman whether it's two men two
17:32
women because I don't want to exclude
17:34
any kind of family you know if we have
17:36
good enough parents it is in the
17:37
children's best interest to have time
17:40
that is not um that is not uh negatively
17:43
impacted by the time with by the other
17:45
parent it's best for the children and
17:47
that's how our law is written you know
17:48
it's a popular misconception people say
17:50
well Arizona is a 50-50 State well
17:52
meaning equal parenting time not really
17:55
our statute says it is in the best
17:56
interest of children to have substantial
17:58
and frequent parent par in time with
17:59
each parent all things being equal that
18:01
there's no drug issues that there's no
18:03
significant domestic violence that
18:05
there's no mental health issues that
18:07
either aren't being treated or are
18:09
impacting a parent's parenting right
18:12
that's that's really good to know I
18:13
think the timing of this show is is good
18:15
because I just saw this morning in our
18:18
um in our team our internal team
18:20
communication that that came out and so
18:22
I was like what's going to happen now
18:24
you know when we we had these as options
18:26
if we if we run into this so that's good
18:28
to hear that the Kobe will be sort of
18:29
the backup plan yeah and it's basically
18:32
and what what I think the legislature
18:33
was trying to prevent is from the court
18:37
ordering that kind of a process where
18:39
people don't have resources or one
18:41
parent doesn't want to participate okay
18:43
then the court shouldn't be forcing
18:45
participation but then at the same time
18:47
the court can say okay well if you're
18:49
not going to participate I will consider
18:51
that and then consider all of the facts
18:53
and the children's best interest when
18:56
deciding what should the parenting time
18:57
schedule be right which would likely
18:59
limit their time with the child because
19:01
if they don't want to be a parent then
19:03
they're not going to be a good one when
19:04
it is their turn exactly and and that's
19:06
why another reason why I stress these
19:08
outof Court Solutions it is family
19:10
courts not equipped it's it's not mental
19:12
health court it's not treatment Court
19:14
they have limited options limited things
19:17
that they even have the discretion to
19:19
order but with a mediation process or a
19:22
collaborative process you as parents can
19:25
agree on anything you want cuz it's your
19:27
children and you can put them first and
19:30
craft that agreement so it works for you
19:33
you are not getting a cut and paste say
19:35
holiday schedule right that's on the
19:37
judge's hard drive when because you
19:39
can't agree on one right you really want
19:41
a judge to tell you what Christmas you
19:42
can see your children right not me
19:44
that's that's really good to know so so
19:46
when in doubt when possible elect for a
19:49
collaborative divorce or collaborative
19:52
ways to process some of these
19:53
disillusions of relationships or custody
19:55
arrangements and and so on and so forth
19:57
at minimum you want your legal
19:59
representative to be either trained in
20:02
collaborative law trained in mediation
20:05
even if you don't do a collaborative
20:07
process even if you never go to
20:08
mediation because that attorney is going
20:10
to have that training to what can we do
20:13
to to get you an outcome that you can
20:16
live with that you've had some buyin
20:17
with that's best for your children our
20:19
answer is not always to go to court
20:21
that's the last option so how would we
20:23
find someone if we're looking um you
20:25
know for someone who's who's trained and
20:27
skilled enough in to do potentially a
20:29
collaborative situation I find referrals
20:32
are usually the best way to find an
20:33
attorney that'll be a good fit for you
20:36
um we in Arizona have a collaborative
20:38
attorney Association it's called
20:39
collaborative Professionals of Phoenix
20:41
where anyone who's had that
20:42
collaborative training is listed on that
20:44
website so at minimum you're getting
20:46
someone who's well-versed in an outof
20:48
Court resolution for your case um
20:51
honestly you want someone that's
20:52
obviously been practicing a while you
20:54
know so they you know obviously know
20:55
what they're doing um you know and
20:57
someone who's who
20:59
you can live with who who whose
21:01
personality you can handle exactly I
21:03
mean even a collaborative process is at
21:05
least a couple of months I've had
21:06
clients I've had for years so if you
21:08
have to spend Years with me we have to
21:11
get along not every an attorney not
21:13
every attorney even if they're a
21:14
fantastic attorney isn't a fit is a fit
21:16
for every client who walks in their door
21:18
and vice versa so can you interview for
21:20
example to try to find are we in
21:22
alignment are we going to have good
21:23
energy together um you can just
21:25
interview and is that called a
21:27
consultation
21:29
absolutely I I encourage people to do
21:31
that don't hire the first person you
21:33
consult with different different
21:34
attorneys are going to have different
21:35
approaches different strategies and if
21:38
you haven't met with more than one
21:39
attorney you can't even compare and
21:40
contrast who would be a good fit for
21:43
your case that makes sense that makes
21:45
sense so what are what are some good
21:46
questions to ask when interviewing an
21:48
attorney you know again like I I said
21:51
before what's your do you have any
21:53
training in collaborative law do you
21:55
have any you know sort of training in
21:57
mental health do you have um any kind of
21:59
training in mediation how long have you
22:02
been an attorney how long have you
22:03
practiced family law cuz you could be an
22:05
attorney for 30 years and only just
22:07
started practicing family law sure yeah
22:08
I don't think we know that most of yeah
22:10
so these are all good questions to ask
22:11
um you know there's no winning or losing
22:14
in family court it's not like if you're
22:15
a criminal attorney it's like what's
22:16
your win loss record because that's
22:18
pretty you win or you lose family is
22:20
different so you can't an attorney can't
22:22
Rel everybody loses in family law cases
22:25
every time there's loss because of just
22:26
the nature of the experience and going
22:29
to court someone always loses because
22:31
you're not going to get the exact
22:32
outcome you want and it's a very
22:33
expensive stressful process so what
22:36
could someone expect to pay for one of
22:38
these experiences because I've heard
22:40
things like $200,000 which most people
22:43
don't even have whereas you know because
22:46
attorneys I mean they you guys have a
22:48
pretty good hourly rate like I don't
22:51
want to email the attorney because it's
22:52
going to cost me
22:53
$150 you know right I mean I give my uh
22:57
when clients hire I give them sort of
22:59
how our process works and everything's
23:01
transparent my hourly rate is
23:03
transparent PE clients get a bill every
23:04
month so they can see where their
23:05
money's going I'm like always ask
23:07
questions if you don't understand your
23:08
bill I don't charge you for explaining
23:10
your bill I said but anything that
23:12
doesn't
23:13
require attorney time or skills I have
23:17
my support staff do and the reason for
23:19
that is their billable rate is obviously
23:20
much lower so rather than me drafting
23:23
say a disclosure statement well my par
23:25
legal can do that for probably a third
23:27
of the price where I'm just it checking
23:29
it over cuz nothing goes out the door
23:31
bers and accountants like they' set it
23:33
up and then the accountant signs off
23:34
nothing goes out the door of my office
23:35
without me looking at it no matter how
23:37
minimum because that's what that's what
23:38
you're paying for you know but you know
23:40
I I'm just I'm transparent you know we
23:42
we when you are an attorney and you've
23:44
been doing things a long time I can do
23:46
things a lot faster than an attorney who
23:48
say been an attorney for a year so
23:50
instead of paying that attorney you
23:51
don't need to go do any research it's
23:52
like I know how to do this boom you
23:54
might even have templates set up in your
23:55
email what would take a new attorney 3
23:58
hours maybe takes me an hour right you
23:59
know yes you're paying my hourly rate is
24:01
more than that newer attorney but you
24:03
compare that cost at the end you're
24:04
still paying me less right that makes
24:06
sense that's kind of what I talk about
24:07
with people who come to EMDR therapy and
24:09
they're paying higher because we're
24:10
Specialists it's like but your treatment
24:12
time is going to go from five years to a
24:14
year exctly you're going to save a lot
24:16
of money in the long run and and also
24:18
you're going to get better faster so
24:19
you're going to be out of the weeds
24:20
faster so I think that you're kind of
24:22
saying the same thing like you get what
24:23
you pay for and and it is worth the
24:25
investment to get out of this tumultuous
24:27
time and a more exped
24:29
that's always my goal we unfortunately
24:31
you know just like mental health
24:33
professionals just like any other kind
24:34
of professional there are attorneys out
24:36
there who their end goal is how much can
24:38
they charge you makes you feel dirty
24:40
thinking about that that's gross it does
24:41
I don't even like saying it out loud but
24:43
humans are humans will be fallible yes
24:46
yeah so well I really appreciate all of
24:48
this this is so helpful and and um and
24:51
hopefully you know those who might
24:53
unfortunately need to be go you know
24:55
have to go through an experience that
24:56
would require this kind of service and
24:58
need to know I think this is great that
25:00
you've been willing to share your many
25:01
years of expertise with us ABS is there
25:03
anything else that you want to you want
25:05
to leave here before we wrap up for
25:06
today you know you touched on this a
25:09
little bit earlier that divorce and
25:11
custody it's emotional it's you're
25:13
dealing with loss you're dealing about
25:15
if you're going through a divorce you
25:17
have had your children in your house
25:18
24/7 now they're only with you half the
25:21
time all of that's emotional and it's
25:23
hard and you really just want to to the
25:26
extent that you're able you know take
25:28
care of yourself have a good mental
25:30
health professional and make sure if you
25:32
are going to choose legal counsel choose
25:34
legal counsel that you feel understands
25:36
that and is going to like bedside manner
25:41
for yeah and it's going to handle your
25:43
your case with a solution oriented
25:46
mindset not a litigation oriented
25:49
mindset that's really a really fair
25:51
thing to say and I would and I would
25:53
just add to it when we're going through
25:55
an active traum like traumatic
25:57
experience which divorce always is even
25:59
when done well and not very adversarial
26:02
like I said before it's going to be
26:03
traumatic and it always is traumatic for
26:05
children I mean they're going through so
26:07
much loss whether they're young or
26:09
they're old this is you know this is
26:11
going to be a thing I would just say
26:12
make sure people get mental health
26:14
counseling and because it's traumatic
26:16
you know if you can find an EMDR
26:18
therapist that understands the way
26:19
things will get stuck if we don't
26:21
address it I would recommend that for
26:23
sure um I recommend it for sure right
26:25
yeah yeah well you got to do things that
26:27
work
26:29
you know let's be effective and
26:30
efficient great well I thank you so much
26:33
for being on with us today um wealth of
26:35
knowledge uh Diane Sullivan if you're
26:38
looking for some advice or and you're in
26:40
the state of Arizona and you have needs
26:42
uh is it Sullivan law.com what's your
26:44
website Sullivan Law a suvan law a.com
26:48
we'll go ahead and put that in the
26:49
description if you'd like to investigate
26:51
further but uh hopefully you don't need
26:53
this but if you do I think you'd be in
26:55
great hands with with selecting
26:57
selecting someone like her especially as
27:00
you've gotten to know her a little bit
27:01
through this experience but um so take
27:04
care of yourselves if you are going
27:05
through this process and make sure that
27:07
you get the supports that you need and
27:10
um until we meet again I thank you so
27:12
much for being here and thank you for
27:13
joining us today Diane and U make sure
27:16
that you move forward and Lead With Love
27:18
because it'll never steer you wrong
27:21
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27:33
you
27:38
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