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Hope Healing and Recovery: A Fire Captain's Journey Part 2
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Aug 14, 2025
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! This episode goes over Hope, Healing and Recovery: A Fire Captain's Journey Part 2 with Dennis Joos, Retired Gilbert Fire Captain — exploring his path from years of service to navigating personal challenges, finding healing, and rebuilding life with renewed purpose. I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing! I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all. -- Links -- https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:06
Hi everyone, I'm Kelly O'Horo and this is Adaptable Behavior Explained. Hi
0:12
everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in today to Adaptable. My name is Kelly O'Horo and I am your host. I'm a trauma
0:18
therapist and EMDR trainer, and I am passionate about helping people understand why we act the way that we
0:25
act, especially when the way that we show up doesn't always make sense. And other people's behaviors certainly don't
0:31
make sense to us many times. And so, this show is designed to help you get curious and learn the reasons and the
0:37
why for why we show up the way that we do. I'm honored and excited to have with me our guest today. His name is DJ and
0:45
he is a retired fire captain with Gilbert in Arizona and he was a former
0:50
client and a beautiful soul in sharing his recovery story and so we're very lucky to have him today and we're going
0:58
to continue on our conversation. So if you didn't check out part one, definitely do that, but this show could
1:04
also stand alone. So whatever you've got time for, we love we love to have you here. So DJ, please introduce yourself.
1:10
Dennis Jo. They called me DJ at work. Born and raised in Arizona. Lived here all my life. Moved out to the east
1:15
valley some time ago and started my career. I started in like 97 98. Couple
1:21
years prior to that I was with a different department. But yeah, I was grateful to get in the fire service. I knew early on. I worked for the airline
1:28
and FedEx, but I knew I did a ride along early on and that was my calling. Like I just felt that spiritual thing like this
1:34
is what I need to do. And it took me a while to get on and work hard, but yet I just instantly it was just one of those
1:41
things like, "All right, this is what I have to do for my life." And well, and a funny history that we
1:47
realized at some point once you were seeing me was I was a flight attendant back in
1:52
Yeah. another life and you were working at America West as well and our paths had
1:58
crossed. They had and you remembered that. I did. And uh I vaguely remembered it as well, but you
2:03
know I didn't obviously we're we're changing flights and we're running client or you know the
2:09
patients we're running the customers off the plane and on the plane and all of that stuff and so we were you know very brief interaction but we had met in that
2:16
in our first capacity. So that was kind of small world weird world. Yeah. I still remember the visual when it popped up.
2:21
It took some time and then we had a picture we actually found of your graduation class and kind of just ironic but I enjoy that time. I
2:28
really did. I just couldn't afford a family and stuff like that. You know, it was it was a good time and surviving as a flight attendant or
2:35
ramper without some additional supports or just working around the clock. Yeah, absolutely. So, for sure.
2:40
So, you know, I wanted to do this episode to talk a little bit about the phases of recovery for people.
2:46
oftentimes they don't understand that relapse is oftentimes part of recovery because, you know, whether we like it or
2:52
not, life doesn't meet us on our terms. And we can be going along and getting along and doing, you know, just great
2:58
with our coping skills and our current level of healing, which is we're never done because we're not dead. There's
3:05
always more to grow and learn and heal and modify and adapt. And so, you know,
3:11
in our last episode, we talked about the transition for you from being on the fire department for, you know, 25 years
3:19
and a couple years before that. Were you with rural metro or No, I was down in I was at Hila River. I
3:24
was down worked in Sacramento. So, you've got 27 years of basically
3:30
facing Yeah. traumatic, helpless, awful things
3:35
and sprinkled in some really great things. You know, I mean, everyone loves a firefighter for a reason. We feel safe
3:40
when you show up. We can, you know, uh, count on you. You guys are there to be
3:45
there for us. And that's the whole thing that makes you known as heroes and everyone rever and and really looks up
3:52
to. But with that also comes this I would imagine immeasurable amount of
3:58
weight and burden that stacks up in your nervous system that is on your shoulders
4:04
literally causes shoulder injuries and back and neck injuries in most of you and not just because of the physical
4:10
wear and tear but because of the emotional burden that you're asked to carry and to go toward the danger when
4:16
everyone else is hardwired to run away from the danger. And so you bypass what is taught in the biology of the human to
4:24
go toward the danger. So tell us a little bit about what you liked about
4:29
being a firefighter and then talk about a little bit what you now know to have
4:34
been maybe too high a cost. Yeah. Um and you know military police
4:39
you know what 911 dispatchers you know I really throw a shout out to them. you
4:45
know, they kind of those initial calls that come in and they don't get a whole lot of recognition for the trauma and
4:50
the pain and suffering that they go through. It's not as physical as always, but I always have a soft spot for those other industries that that deal with
4:57
that stuff just to a different level. And it was amazing career and I had a great time at it, but it does come at a
5:03
pain at a price and there's a pain and suffering that comes along with that along for myself, but yet
5:10
family especially if you have a family and stuff like that. So some of those things you're not very aware of when you get into it and you're excited and
5:16
adrenaline's going and you're learning and you want to be on those significant calls because that's how you gain
5:22
experience and stuff like that. And at some point, you know, for me, every individual is different, but there's a
5:27
shift, you know, with the chemicals that take place and you educated me on that. And then the brain shift and the body shift
5:33
and then the fight or flight, how messed up that gets, you know, and you were early on saying you're not the brain and the body's not
5:42
built to experience that kind of trauma over that period of time and not get really any relief,
5:47
right? That it's not meant to be chronic and prolonged and constant.
5:52
Yeah, it's meant to be in bursts here and there, you know, save the kid from your
5:58
from the bear, you know, run from the lion. We're not meant to be like lions, lions, lions, bears. You know, we're
6:05
really not built for that. And and our nervous systems are not designed for that. And so, the recovery I often
6:11
describe, I think, is harder for a first responder than for a veteran because the veterans can come off the line, right?
6:17
They get leaves for 30 days. they get, you know, breaks from the deployments and they get to go back to the job that
6:24
doesn't always have to be faced with potential, you know, danger and threat.
6:29
And so to me, the nervous system gets a little bit more of a break. Now, again, yeah, we can't measure the gruesomeness
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of what, you know, everybody sees and and vicariously as a trauma therapist, I mean, it's gruesome in all of those
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those professions, including, you know, a 911 operator. Um, and you guys as well, not to
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but like I'm like you have those outlets and I had like what do we do with what do you do with this
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information we give you? And then you said hey we have someone I'm like okay like there's some relief on what we tell
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Sherry. Yeah. And it still builds. It's an it's an occupational hazard as a therapist as well. I mean it's funny because not that
7:07
long ago I said to my husband, "God, sometimes I hate my job." And he goes, "I thought you love your job." I said, "I love my job. I hate that I can't
7:13
drive by, you know, a a house with a pool that has a big ladder because I've
7:19
reprocessed a trauma with somebody related to the loss of this or, you know, I can't see a car accident without
7:26
having all of the car accidents I've helped people reprocess or I can't, you know, it's the same thing. You pick up that secondary trauma.
7:32
Absolutely. Because as an EMDR therapist, we are in the thick of all the detail. I mean, for most of the
7:37
cases, the patients are sharing with us in pretty, you know, pretty rich detail what's
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happened. And I'm a a pretty I've got a pretty photographic memory and I've seen it even though I haven't
7:47
seen it. And then, of course, holding the space for the helplessness and the and all of that. And, you know, not crying because it's not happening to me
7:54
and it didn't happen to me and it's not happening right now, but still recognizing the pain and the shared
7:59
pain. Yeah. You know, and and you have that too. you go to a call and and maybe you're ar you aren't able to save
8:06
somebody and you hear the mother's anguish when a child is found in a pool like
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you've had all of that secondary pain as well and so I think that so often people
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don't value the tax and the toll that it takes and I tell all first responders it's not if it's when this stuff builds
8:24
and you have a breaking point I mean that compassion fatigue you get it I get it I
8:29
still remember to come to you at one point and I I would leave work and be like, "Kelly, it's a hot one or something. I got hot
8:35
potato." And you'd be like, "All right, let me make some time, right?" And and I'm like, I'm at that point where this compassion fatigue is
8:41
it's so affecting me that in turn, it's just it takes away the resource that shows up
8:48
and has 100% of what they need. When you start to build that compassion fatigue, and I'm like, this is really scary for
8:55
me to not have that full compassion for what's taking place. and realize early on and disconnected
9:02
from it. Yes. Get so Yeah. So compartmentalized and and oftentimes dissociated. We call it peak
9:08
performance dissociation when we're when we're on and then when we can go off and in your case, you can take off your
9:13
boots and you can cry about the day that you just had and the the the powerlessness that you had to
9:19
experience. And I think people tend to get to a place where they just really turn off to it. But then the the
9:25
negative side of that is they then lose the compassion for, you know, their kid when the kid falls or their grandma when
9:31
the grandma's sick or whatever's going on. It's like they're just so apathetic or indifferent. And it's not that
9:36
they're bad people, you know, it's that they are numbing out because they can't take any
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more in. And I think that that's very much underestimated for first responders and understanding this is this is part
9:47
of what happens to it as an occupational hazard. But but you can get ahead of it and stay ahead of it
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if you you know plan as part of your as part of your job that you have your
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PT and you have your doctors and you have your you know hormone specialists and
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your chiropractors and your trauma therapists and you just have that be how you do life. Yeah. And one thing we do, I I feel like
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we're getting off the subject that started, but I think this is so important that you taught me early on and I could share was when the new
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recruits and we change the culture is get a specialist early in your life, a marriage
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one for the spouses and the families are so left out, whether it's addiction or or work stuff that comes into play in
10:28
your in your life. And so we were able to pass that on when I was in there and we're talking those recruit classes like
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find a trauma therapist. Here's my recommendations and good whatever. Do what you need to do. research it, but get one early on in your career and not
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do what I did, right? Not get to 2011, go, I'm on fire, Cali, like I'm burning the house down and everything's going
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with it. And so that's where I think that culture changes and I think you start to see a shift and you may see I you would be
10:54
able to know you're maybe you're see you should start to see guys with three, four, five years coming earlier and that
10:59
was like change that culture when I started, right? Like don't abuse don't go down the road. always the older guys that
11:05
were just like, "What is happening to me?" and never the young ones. And I think that there has been a tremendous shift in culture, at least in Gilbert
11:12
and many other, you know, departments in Arizona. We're seeing a shift. And I I even think nationally, we're seeing a a
11:18
paradigm shift, which is great because something that oftenimes people don't know is there's a 20-year reduction in
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lifespan for first responders, primarily fire. We found this out out of a study in Chicago where, you know, they're
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like, we get to retirement and then we die 20 years earlier before the rest of the population because our bodies aren't
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meant to take that sustained cortisol and adrenaline and it's not good for us and it takes a toll on all of your other
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organs. And so I think that the culture is shifting for sure. But something I
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wanted to have you talk a little bit about because I think this is also another area that's underestimated is
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your partners. Yeah. They didn't sign up to hear about this. They they didn't sign up to hear about
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what you saw today at work. So talk to us about what that's been like. You spoke that in early on in our
12:08
sessions and like if you've had that agreement with your spouse, your significant other or whoever you go home to and you have that like, hey, do you
12:15
want to know what took place? Do you want to know the details in a healthy way and then what their capacity is? Did
12:22
you sign up for that? And then first of all have that conversation. So I never had that conversation. I just
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never shared that information. And it was just damaging and so lonely.
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Yeah. In so many different arenas. And so um I wish I had that conversation
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early on. I wish I had that fortitude to say, "Okay, and there's some spouses that can handle that, right? like give
12:43
me bits and pieces just so you can start the process before you move on to the better phase and get with
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well I would even say it's not necessarily even the spouse although some may act out all the time I mean this happens even in my own marriage I
12:54
just last week I I had a just a rough something that happened in one of my cases and I was like gosh my husband's
13:00
also a trauma therapist so now I get someone like that really does get it but I went to tell him something and he
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wasn't in the space to hear it and he goes Kelly I love you I don't want to hear that
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and I'm just like I'm sorry. You know, he he's right to set the boundary. And I think that we can take for granted like
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even if someone can handle it, do they want to right now given their current circumstances, their own needs
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and demands and their hearts and their jobs and and you know, our lovely girl Taylor over here is uh she's she's
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nodding because my son, her husband is a paramedic and it's the same like he's
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going to want to show up and maybe he wants to share or maybe he doesn't and yeah, like I can't hear it. And so
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that's the thing, right? I think a first responder doesn't necessarily know they're going to sign up to have to do some of this alone.
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And so what would you recommend for people like knowing that about the support systems? What would you
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recommend for first responders, especially if they're early in? What should they do about this? Yeah, obviously get into a trauma
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therapist, EMDR, the significant factors in in that arena to be able to deal with
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that for themselves and then reach out to the families and the spouses. And so
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even in recovery, if you look at the recovery industry and the rehabs and detox and all that, like it's so focused
14:15
on the first responder or the addict or alcoholic and the resources don't get back to the family, right? And they're
14:22
left holding the bag, holding the house or the betrayals, the loneliness, the helplessness. the both arenas they're
14:28
just left really alone and not and so early on I think in your career and just in general in life if you can have that
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resource and get those resources to them and each department's gotten better and
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there's Arizona's done a good job with that in regards to that but to have that how do we help those family and I still
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remember later on you hear what's daddy going to be like when he comes home you know my boy we'll just wait and see you
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know like that kind of you're like ah like I had such a hard time shifting the hats and stuff like that. I couldn't
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manage that very well where others could. And so you hear these stories later on, you're like, "Wow." Like,
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and still to this day, I see even in retirement, I see the pain and suffering that I caused Judy and the kids because
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not being educated, understanding, right? And then, well, I think more importantly, not just
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not having the support you needed, not knowing back when you started that wasn't really like common knowledge.
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people didn't talk about it. It was kind of like pull up your bootstraps and go along and get along and that people we
15:30
know too much now to turn a blind eye about it. I mean I I remember when threeear span in Phoenix
15:36
there were 22 deaths by suicide from fire and I'm like this is unacceptable. We must do better. And as a result, you
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know, that and you know, the Craig Tiger Act, uh, HB2502 is an act that was
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passed in the state of Arizona where if you have a qualifying event, you know, seeing someone hurt, maimed, harmed, the
15:56
helpless stuff, everybody who's a first responder has had one of these events, you can actually go to your command or
16:02
not even go to your command. There's areas that we can go. We're going to drop that content for Arizonans in the show notes. If you're a first responder,
16:08
you don't even have to share with your command that you would like to get some help. and they cover the costs with actually specialists who are
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pre-approved for this for this kind of work for EMDR therapy and other sematic approaches. So, uh but that said, we'll
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we'll make sure you have those uh contacts. That was very valuable to me and us, right?
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And one thing Gilbert does good is the Albert to the ambulance crews because a lot of times those are left out in different cities and stuff like that. So
16:33
the it's getting there but yet like Yeah. And so even those resources like for the families and stuff like that
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like significant stuff. I'm glad you brought that up because on top of what you deal with and then
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for me the substance abuse stuff and then not all the problems that took place at home
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like due to behaviors and stuff and then not handling situations or coming home with this trauma and not knowing what to do with that.
16:57
Like it's just that's why we divorce r so high and that you know like I didn't want to be a statistic Kelly.
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Like I remember talking to you like I got to get out. It's time. I think I have my ducks in a row. I don't want to
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be another statistic. I don't want to be one that goes by suicide or drug addiction. I don't want to die of
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cancer, you know, like all the because I have a 5 10 years span and I have this window that I'll live and yet I found myself being, you
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know, two years coming up on two years being retired already. Like I was face down again, right? Like I was I did
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everything that I didn't want to do and thought I was prepared and I still ended
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up, you know, like on the prior session. Yeah. So So let's drowning in water. So,
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we're going to talk briefly about that because if they want to dig into the details about that, I'm going to encourage you to watch the the last
17:45
episode, but you know, I I'll just frontload it. You know, you're ready to retire.
17:50
You're going to lose the identity of being a fire captain and and your purpose and the adrenaline and the
17:56
cortisol that you can count on, the dopamine that hits that you get by going on the car calls when the red light goes
18:01
off. You know, all of that's going to be a loss that comes with retirement and transition. And then you've got, you
18:08
know, in your case, you have three significant loved ones that pass away
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within just a few months time. And so you're hit with that, the transition for retirement, as well as a pretty severe
18:21
injury and dealing with pain management and, you know, unfortunately, you know,
18:27
a pain doctor and not enough oversight, you end up back in pain meds that you
18:32
end up abusing. Yeah. and eventually reach for the bottle which is outside of your eight and a half years. So not like you,
18:39
right? And at the same time, you are human, right? You are only capable like any other
18:46
human of handling so damn much. And so asking of yourself more is so unfair of
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yourself, you know, without getting more help, without really calling uncle like this is all too much. And so you end up
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after eight and a half years with you know a fall down moment and um you know
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you end up getting help. So let's talk about that fall down moment and some of the recovery aspects for you so that for
19:12
those who are listening they understand like it happens to the best of us. You know you're highly respected. You've
19:18
come so far. You're a spokesperson on mental health. Like you really are you're you're all of it. And I think
19:24
that people don't recognize, you know, why does this happen? So, a question you asked me while we were in
19:30
the break. You said something about how come some people
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feel this way and some people act that way. They can see a call. So, do you remember what you asked? It was it was more along the lines like there's
19:42
individual I know and like this is you know this episode's about me and my journey and so I'm so unique and
19:48
different yet there's some similarities but I know there's great co-workers I had and they could dump the call or not
19:56
even remember the call by the next morning at shift change and they were significant calls to me and I thought
20:02
and they're like vaguely remember parts of it or you had to dig it out like they were on that or they weren't. So, I'm
20:07
like, how come some of us, you know, obviously we're all different uniques, but yet they put it away, they put it
20:14
away, and they have successful careers and great families and great tools and they do very well, but you see them
20:20
personally change the dynamics of them because it's just brain chemicals and stuff like that.
20:26
They physically change, but yet they don't present the way I do or have those
20:32
episodes or reach out for stuff. They're different. they just and they are they
20:38
seem successful from the outside but at what point do they break and I know individuals like they get out and retire and that's when they're like right I'm
20:44
done this stuff's built up right they can't hide from it anymore get help so I think what you're saying I
20:50
think is a great statement question observation for for lack of a better word but honestly we can't compare an apple and
20:57
orange you know you are different than him than different than him because you have your
21:02
genetics you have your histories uh your parents' histories, your epigenetics that you're carrying. You're going to
21:09
have your family of origin history, you know, what happened to you. I I can't even count how many firefighters I've
21:16
worked with whose dads were either absent, using drugs, or abusive. It was just a very common theme with
21:23
first responders, especially fire culture. And it's like the adaptation is I want to go be there for people because
21:28
I didn't feel like people were there for me. It's a common, you know, u paradigm shift for a person to go and make a
21:35
difference. And so, all that to say, we're different. We have different histories. We have different um
21:40
emotional capacities because of those histories. We have different adaptations. And so, you might have gone
21:47
on a call where there was a drowning of a child and your kids are all grown and it was hard, but it wasn't
21:54
as hard. But maybe your your partner goes on a call and he has a kid that's the very same age or very close to that
22:00
age and he's on his knees because it is just too close to separate, right? And so I think parts of these calls
22:07
really are different stimulus that we are impacted by depending on our life, our experience,
22:14
who do we love, who loves us, who needs us, like all of those factors play a role in our our resilience and our in
22:20
our capacities to tolerate the distress that we face. So that's one of the factors. The other thing that I think
22:26
people don't under value is what we were just talking about. What does your support system look like? What does your
22:33
habits of daily self-care look like? You know, do you regularly meditate, work
22:38
out, go to therapy, get in the water, come home and tell your wife what
22:43
happened, call your best buddy who was on the call with you and say, "I got to just talk about this."
22:48
You know, I can't let this build. This is going to be too much. like what is your habits to deal with the the
22:54
distress uh from a dayto day. Those are all factors that play into our resilience.
23:00
And then also what you alluded to is it's not if it's when maybe I make it
23:05
through my 25 year career and I'm like rockstar. I'm good. And then I'm not in it anymore. And all of a sudden, I don't
23:13
know what to do with myself because I went so hard every day and I had a way to distract myself from the
23:18
emotional impact of what I've seen every day and the physical impact that is not
23:24
deniable. It it shows up in us because it's physical. It's chemical. So, I think that I think that that might
23:31
be the answer to what you were wondering. Okay? And I and I hope that that helps our listeners, especially if you're a first responder and you're
23:37
comparing yourself to, you know, your buddy on the call and you don't know why. I think that we can't do that.
23:43
Yeah. We are all so different. We all have different uh abilities and capabilities and emotional resilience and we're not
23:50
better or worse. We just are different from one another. Yeah. No. Well, well put. that's, you
23:55
know, we recently lost one, you know, and a solid individual and you're just
24:00
like, how does that hap still happen, you know, and so it's just that frontload this stuff like wherever you
24:06
are, if it's if it's great or bad, you know, it's just at some point like I
24:11
think you just we just we we give or not, you know, there's plenty of guys that
24:16
get out and they have a meltdown at some point 10 15 years later and they're they
24:21
crack up about something that's just that's triggered, right? And then that then that rolodex goes, right?
24:27
And so it's and they see it all and they feel it all and they remember it all. Yeah. I remember being up, you know, up in
24:32
Prescat and uh the doctor I was with, you know, so I had the family, you know,
24:38
you have the dynamics when you're born and raised and those traumas that come along with that and then I had the
24:44
substance and alcohol abuse and then I had the line of duty and so I had the trifecta. Yeah. And so on top of that, like
24:51
why else wouldn't you drink, right? at some point like how are you tools you have? Yeah. Like why aren't you going to
24:57
pick? And that worked a really long time for me. Like it was part of the toolbox and I managed it correctly.
25:03
But at some point I just was like I still remember coming home from a pretty significant drowning and I worked 12
25:10
hours and I was we had the dive team out and all that stuff. I'm like I'm not going to drink. I'm not going to drink. And I remember coming home and showering
25:17
and I could not sit with myself right. My wife I'm like I can't dump this on her. You know, it's eight o'clock at
25:23
night and I still go reach. I finally go out and get something to just Yeah. You know, as you taught me, turn the
25:28
flap off. We got to stop the flap and fight or flight or stuff like that. So, yeah. Yeah. So, so your fall down moment
25:35
happens post retirement and you end up needing more help again. So, talk to us about what that was like
25:41
for you and then and where you went. Yeah. And so, a little bit on that. I was like the managing the pain. I wasn't
25:47
doing that very well. That kind of started to go south. I retire at some point, you know, I have these
25:52
significant events and none of that's an excuse by any means, but yet uh I reach
25:58
for the bottle again and go go down that road and I'm hiding it and sneaking it and I'm golfing trying to be enjoy
26:03
retirement and doing all these things, but it's all hidden. Shame and guilt on top of that, right? You know, trying to manage this kind of
26:09
lifestyle and think I'm having fun. And so at some point, you know, my wife comes to me and it's like November 30th. She's like, "Are you drinking?" I'm
26:15
like, "Absolutely." And I need help. like I should have come to you. I should There's thousands of pe things I could
26:21
have done and I didn't once I'm in it cuz that's part of it, right? Well, there's also so much shame because
26:26
like I failed. Yes. Like here I go again. But once I put that substance in and that was relapse was early before I
26:33
picked up the drink and so I got to that point and ended up I reached out to an
26:38
great friend of ours, Jod at work and said I need help. She came over that within that within a couple hours and
26:44
they already had me, you know, they were working on lining me up for a detox and then
26:49
I was just surrendered at that point. You know, I was I was done and grateful but didn't know what to expect and so um I
26:57
was fortunate to have that support and some of the things research they did to get me where I ended up eventually up in
27:02
Prescuit. So talk about the place that you went because I think there are a lot of great places for first responders. Um, and
27:08
we'll talk about a couple of others that I am aware of that I love, but but I really this place is special to me for
27:14
for other reasons as well. Yeah, absolutely. And so I ended up at Holdf Fast Recovery up in Prescat. They
27:19
have a house where there's 15 16 guys in there. It's just a guy's program and then they have recovery center and then
27:25
they have a new facility. They just opened up anchor point up in Prescuit. It's a different there's different phases of recovery one, two, and three.
27:33
and so all that stuff that goes along with sober living. And so I came out of detox and was picked up with an
27:39
individual that was amazing man faith-based short-term recovery but just had that
27:47
spiritual aspect of it and he's like we're going up and told me about where I was going. And I'm like, I'd heard
27:52
about, you know, his story, knew his story a little bit, heard about the program a little bit, and I'd been to a
27:57
faith-based one before and so it wasn't, you know, so I I was skeptical on if it truly was going to be
28:03
a faith-based one, but this is this organization and these individuals and and the people that run it, they
28:09
truly that's what they that's what's different about that. Yeah. And just to give you a little bit of history, no, I think it's good, but a
28:14
little bit of history about this specific. So Brandon, he was the one single hot shot that survived after the
28:22
19 passed from the Granite Granite Mountain Fire. And it was very tragic in
28:28
the state of Arizona. And he ended up being kind of an EMDR spokesperson
28:33
because what ended up happening is we ended up getting him in treatment. And actually the Arizona Trauma Recovery
28:39
Network, we went up to Prescuit and trained all of the therapists who were
28:44
willing to learn RTEP, which is a special protocol for EMDR therapy because everybody was affected in his
28:51
community. And one of the meaning-making experiences for him was to put this
28:56
treatment center into play. And so he and I have kept in touch over the years. I just love So you were part of that. Like see, you
29:01
know, I knew enough. We're not, you know, we sent trucks up there and all that stuff. So well, I didn't know that. Yeah. we came up and trained all the
29:07
therapists in the community and we did our TE with them down in the valley um so that they could have their crap
29:13
together so that they could help their community and so we were really closely involved with the aftermath of that
29:18
devastation and specifically him. I mean he he and I have had lots of chats and he was he presented at MRIA and um I
29:25
just love him. He's he's the real deal. He's a great guy and um but anyways, his passion for what he had gone through I
29:32
think was really such a determining factor as to why he wanted to open the place that he opened. And so tell us for
29:38
you what was different because you'd been to a couple of different inatient places. And you know, this is my third
29:44
time. And so people that relapse and all like there's numbers or whatever. And he always wanted to be here last, but I don't know. Each time I did that, I've
29:50
learned so much and gained so much. And and this was just a different facility
29:55
from the get-go. Um I don't even know how to describe it. It
30:01
was just there was truly there was that concept on faith and God and how do we,
30:07
you know, continue to work this into our lifestyle because
30:12
we love the 12 steps and all that portion of it, but we needed to back it up in in a different arena. And this place truly did that and provided that
30:19
with the clinicians and the counselors and the therapists. They walk the they walk and talk the walk and it's that
30:25
combination of and when we were in there there was such a great group of guys and it sucked and had all that stuff that
30:30
goes on and in some of those rehab facilities but the unity and the brotherhood really took place
30:37
and there was some military guys and some first responders and there's there's all jack of all trades there's you know some guys with some significant
30:43
time and so it's not just a first responder but we get the opportunity if there's room to go through that and
30:49
experience that in that facility and so it was just I mean I could tell you I could spend another hour on just the
30:55
significance and the the God shots that took place and the experiences I had and the opportunity to meet him and and
31:01
stuff like that and then the staff and you know like I remember the fourth step
31:06
and I wrote I could have run this place better and it's all this and you know like every rehab ends up on their four step when it comes to that but it was
31:13
people in there that made it amazing and it's just a great organization and they continue and they teach different
31:18
things and I learned a lot of stuff that you had initially taught me and so on so forth. the brotherhood was really big.
31:23
You talked to me a little bit about one of the things that landed differently for you there and I we talked about it
31:29
actually in the in the last break a little bit. So can you share with our listeners for you like we I I talk on
31:36
many episodes about our states of being that are part of polyagal theory and our you know from calm to reactive to
31:43
handling and navigating to then in our fight or our freeze or flee moments. And
31:49
you said something hit you differently and not that you hadn't learned it, but it hit you differently when you were up there. You want to share a little bit
31:55
about what that was for you on the chart portion of that? Yeah. Um, you know, I brought the chart. Dr.
32:02
Jeff talked about it all the time and carried around. And so for you, you you always said, Dennis, your flap would
32:08
be stuck open in fight or flight. And we have to the lyic system is on and we're in a triggered state and we're not in a calm,
32:15
reasonable, rational place. and and we talked about what's going on in the body and the brain with that but but
32:20
something resonated a little bit differently for you up there regards to I think it just was
32:26
timing and then education and stuff just I started to grasp of a little different
32:33
okay from a different little different format and it just resonated your
32:39
everything you taught me initially and then how I could actually started to regulate myself faster
32:45
right without needing you know, a full treatment or some sort of process like that. It was like the what the body's
32:51
doing, what the brain's doing, and when you get in this, okay, like here and and the setting was
32:56
a little safer like you talked about. Yeah. And so we had I was able to because I had, you know, I had a couple of times
33:02
you freak out in there. Yeah. And things go bad. And so, but yet I was able to learn that and then have this
33:08
new graft and then figure out where I was and then able to get in the red and
33:13
then be able to figure out to get back into that green and stuff and in a shorter period of time like I had hope.
33:19
I found joy. I started to find joy again the faith-based portion of it and the educ the educational piece and then be
33:26
able to regulate the things that took place up there not to the magnitude of what's going to
33:31
take place and you go home and you get back into life and try and figure out that stuff but those are examples enough to for me to figure that out on my own
33:38
to practice in there while it's a little bit less of a environmental demand so that you know okay I can do these things
33:44
when I get home and and I think that's the value of impatient in general is you know there's not really ever a time
33:49
where you're presented with less pressure. Yeah. Aside from like your own internal world and the and the following through with
33:56
what's asked of you while you're in in programs, but you don't have to do the bills, the relationships, the plans, the
34:03
go to work, like all those things. They're left holding the bag again. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's never But well, yeah. So there's the damage that
34:09
has, you know, the family has to deal with. But then there's also the pressure that we have on ourselves just as humans who are doing life, you
34:17
know, and and so when you're removed from that, you there is not really a better time to do the work than when you
34:22
don't have all the environmental stimulus being shot at you all the time. And so I think that that's the other
34:28
really, you know, beautiful I had to dig in. I was fighting for my life. I, you know, I really was. and they saw it like it was like
34:34
and a sponsor and I had rededicated my life to the Christ when I got up with them in 24 hours.
34:39
So it was just it was I it was it was I was I had to jump full in in that like you
34:44
said the setting and they're like take advantage of this now. Right. Definitely. And so we had our phones fairly early on
34:50
where some don't. So I still had that interaction and they could reach out and get guidance and help on things that
34:55
were navigating still in my small world but outside the stuff that was taking place in regards to my wife and family
35:01
and stuff like that that caused questions and raised concerns. How do I handle that? And I had those
35:07
brotherhoods and that and and the community and the staff and stuff like that was so important and what they have up there in Prescuit
35:13
and that facility and and it's just like I feel driving into Prescuit Valley like a shift and a change like there's some
35:20
sort of shift in that and so they oversaturated a long time ago blah blah blah but they
35:25
have such there's it's such a diverse community and but the the it's just
35:30
different than in the valley it's you can just it's just yeah it's just store I can spend a whole Holocaust on the stories
35:36
up there. I love it. That's so beautiful. Are there specific things that seem
35:41
different or more meaningful you meaningful for you now post recovery during this round of your healing
35:48
perspective? Like I said, I found joy again. Like I lost joy. I didn't even know what it
35:54
meant. Um perspective, you know, the family, my own values. I lost my own values.
36:00
My selfworth was in my identity and stuff like that. And so I had shifted from some of that stuff and lost my lost
36:05
my own values in regards to that. So I able to restore those. And you would always say head back, chin up, you know,
36:12
shoulders back and take pride in what you're doing and your small accomplishments. And so as I hit the
36:17
bottom again and then had to rebuild that like those those words still resonated and those guys just reiterated
36:23
that and it changed identity on how I looked at myself and called myself and stuff like that. You have to have
36:28
purpose I think and that's the thing that you had lost with retirement is like my purpose is to go serve and
36:34
protect and all of these things and now it's like what do I do with myself and I think that you know the the three legs of a
36:41
stool to be balanced would be that body mind and spirit and you had lost that spiritual side of things and it was you
36:47
know your tool your stool was tipping over and I think it's really important to to keep those things into place and
36:54
and the meaning making of trauma recovery is really what am I going to do with this season, what I've learned, how
37:00
how I've grown, how do I pay it forward? So for you, do you have some thoughts on what you want to do so that you can kind
37:05
of keep this ball rolling, this momentum? I know the podcast is one way that you're kind of perpetuating this
37:12
growth and allowing for healing for others and continuing, you know, the meaning making for you, but other things
37:17
that come up for you that you want to do. um community, like you said, community and in both church and and
37:23
some of the programs it's service and give, you know, give it give it away, you know, that type of thing. And so
37:31
just because there's thousands of us that have my experience in the first responders and so it's just able to try
37:38
to share what I've learned and experienced early and catch someone, you know, to
37:45
try to mitigate the pain and suffering and damage and stuff that goes along with with
37:51
with substance abuse in my career earlier than later, right? You know, be a be a better example. You
37:57
know, the should have would a couldas. I wish I had someone older that was a mentor in that arena
38:04
and be able to walk me through that and and we're still going to make mistakes and do some stupid stuff, but to the
38:11
damage and level and the behavior that I displayed had gotten so far out of hand. And so,
38:18
you know, just like you, you help the first responders and you share those
38:23
experience and stuff like that on how to navigate and stuff like that. So, not to your level, but just more of a I'm a
38:29
street guy. I'm a, you know, I belong in the streets. But the boots on the ground is the best experience. And you really do the value
38:35
of that. Yeah. You are so valuable and people look up to you. Yeah. Thank you. They really do. And I think that
38:41
honestly people look up to you even more when you're more relatable in that you have your fall down moment.
38:46
Yeah. You know, I think that people shy away from owning when they're in a fall down
38:52
moment because of the shame attached to it, like you said. And I mean the the faster we give words and light and
38:58
whatnot to the shame moments, the faster they lose their power. Yeah. And and it's like you are an example of
39:05
that. So I think it's so Yeah. wonderful. Is there anything else you want our
39:10
listeners to hear before we wrap up for today? You know, I have a thousand things. I don't want to just go with the generic
39:16
hope, but for me it was so important in different phases of my life and career
39:23
where it was if it was just an ounce of hope in some arena, you know, that kept me hanging on or to
39:31
try to do the next right thing or to get help or not to give up, you know, whether it
39:36
was in work or on a scene like that continued just in recovery. um
39:42
and that they're not alone. You know, you're not alone. There's so many of us going through it. You know, transparency was a big portion
39:48
of my recovery and how like it just it freed my soul and and still allows me to work on that and be
39:56
honest and upfront about some of that stuff. But yeah, like I remember that 2011 and being like,
40:03
where do I go? I had nowhere to go. No understanding of what to do. I'm burned
40:09
out. EAP is all we had. What resources are there? And you talk about being a
40:14
scared little boy, you know, as an adult man in that industry and going, "What do like
40:20
right?" And so if you're that person and male or female or any individual that's at that
40:26
crossroad, like just pick up the phone, do it, ask.
40:31
We're going to get the resources for you guys. Absolutely. like there's just so much more to life and then you know what you
40:39
have to offer uh individuals and then the community if you're in that line of work and then in
40:46
recovery it's just the benefits that come along with it. So right it's just it's still a journey but like
40:52
I don't want to go generic hope there's so many things that are attached to that but like it's like trying not to give up and and
40:57
like keep trying to get some support until you find one that works for you. I mean, I was so blessed. I'm so blessed
41:03
to have you in my life and your the things that you guys have done and your organization and the tools that are out
41:09
there. Like, I mean, like, it's just it's just never give up, you know? So, it's just I relied on you and Pat and
41:16
Sammy and everybody in the arena and your organization seem to spider off from there. So,
41:21
I I really appreciate that. and getting to have the honor of walking alongside people while they heal and and no
41:27
question you have been just a special special in in my heart for sure. But honestly, you're just you're just such a
41:33
beautiful example of what can be when people don't quit. You know, when you don't quit and you realize it's not
41:39
linear. We've got work to do. There's always something to find and heal and work on. And I think as long as you look
41:44
at life that way, then you also set down the expectation that you're all better. you know, we're doing well right now,
41:50
but things will happen surely, you know, and that'll challenge us and we'll find more blind spots that we
41:56
weren't sure we had, right? So, yeah. Yeah. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for opportunity and what you guys are
42:02
doing. Yeah. Thank you so much. And giving back like giving back how you truly give back in the right arena is
42:09
just it's it's 911 for us and it's nice to have hold fast 911 in that recovery aspect.
42:15
like those those things are there and so just don't go alone. Yeah. Like it's
42:20
Thank you so much for sharing with us the story. So DJ, you've been an honor to to know in my life and and as a guest
42:28
today for sure. Thank you. So thank you so much for tuning in. If you found this helpful, please uh feel
42:33
free to share this with someone that could benefit. Subscribe to our show and make sure you can connect with me on
42:39
social media on my Instagram or my LinkedIn. Wherever you would like to reach out, I'm available to help find
42:45
resources should you need that. And please just stay hopeful and don't give up. There are resources out there no
42:52
matter where you live and we can try to help find those for you. But until we meet again, don't forget to lead with
42:57
love. It'll never steer you wrong. [Music]