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Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this episode, we explore the connection between perimenopause, sexless marriage, and rebuilding emotional and physical closeness.
Podcast Highlights:
• How perimenopause can affect libido, mood, and relationship dynamics
• Why many couples experience a shift in intimacy during midlife
• The psychological and physiological factors behind “sexless” periods in relationships
• How couples can rebuild connection, communication, and closeness
• Practical insights for partners navigating these changes together
This conversation sheds light on a topic many couples experience but rarely talk about offering understanding, validation, and pathways toward reconnection.
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:06
Hi everyone, I'm Kelly O'Horo and this
0:09
is adaptable behavior explained. So what
0:12
do we mean by the term sexless marriage?
0:15
Well, clinically a sexless marriage is
0:18
defined as having sex fewer than 10
0:21
times a year, but numbers alone don't
0:23
tell the whole story. Some couples feel
0:26
deeply distressed with little sex.
0:28
Others feel content. The issue isn't
0:31
frequency, it's disconnection, mismatch,
0:34
or unspoken pain. Many couples don't
0:37
stop having sex because they don't care.
0:39
So now we're going to just retach you
0:41
what you may not know. So it's about
0:43
learning about the body changes because
0:46
when the body changes, the map must
0:48
change. And one of the most overlooked
0:50
reasons for sexless marriage is this.
0:53
That we expect our bodies to respond the
0:56
same way they did when we were 25 using
0:58
the same instructions. And pmenopause,
1:01
menopause, hormonal shifts in both men
1:04
and women. Medications, stress, and our
1:08
life load all change throughout our
1:10
lives. It affects lubrication. It
1:13
affects the arousal timing. It affects
1:15
sensitivity. What felt good? what
1:17
doesn't feel good. It affects desire
1:20
patterns and what feels good and what
1:22
doesn't changes. It doesn't just change
1:25
over the time of our life. It changes
1:27
through the cycle. And a lot of people
1:28
don't talk about that. For many women,
1:31
desire becomes responsive, not
1:33
spontaneous. Meaning, desire follows
1:35
safety, connection, and stimulation,
1:39
not the other way around. When we were
1:41
younger, maybe we didn't need the
1:43
emotional closeness the way that we do
1:45
as we age. So if you're waiting to want
1:48
sex first, you may wait forever. So
1:50
something to think about is how women
1:53
orgasm and the data that we were never
1:55
taught impacts the way we see our
1:58
relationships and namely sex. So this
2:01
isn't personal failure. It's just an
2:03
anatomical reality. The clitoris has
2:06
over 8,000 nerve endings, most of which
2:09
are internal. Yet many women and their
2:11
partners don't know this or were not
2:14
taught that or how it works. So this is
2:17
where I like the book Becoming
2:19
Coliterate by Lori Mintz. It's not
2:21
graphic. It's educational. It's
2:23
empowering and it's really normalizing.
2:26
I have a friend that I was just talking
2:28
to last week who shared a lot of the
2:30
things that she learned from that book
2:31
and I think it's outstanding because
2:33
understanding your body is not
2:35
indulgent. It's foundational and
2:36
depending on the culture uh religious
2:39
background or family grew up in maybe
2:42
none of this stuff was talked about and
2:44
uh learning your body was not
2:46
encouraged. So we really have to start
2:48
with learning. Um and language matters
2:51
knowing the body reduces shame. We can't
2:54
advocate for what we don't know. We
2:56
can't talk about what we need or want
2:58
when we aren't sure ourselves. Many
3:00
women were raised without accurate
3:02
terminology like vulva versus vagina or
3:06
clitoris or the clitoral hood or the
3:08
labia. Pelvic floor are words that we've
3:11
never heard about as we grow up for most
3:13
of us. If you're in a sexless marriage,
3:15
I want you to hear this. You're not
3:18
broken. Your body is not betraying you.
3:20
And it's not too late. It can absolutely
3:22
change. Midlife can be a doorway, not an
3:25
ending. As long as education replaces
3:28
shame and curiosity and curiosity
3:31
replaces pressure, then things can turn
3:33
around. Sex doesn't need to look like
3:36
what it used to. It needs to be
3:38
effective for who you are now, and it
3:40
needs to be modified and adapted and
3:43
flexible for how you've evolved in both
3:46
your physicality and in your
3:48
relationship. Our midlife brings a
3:51
cluster of changes that layer one on top
3:54
of the other. you know, starting with
3:56
pmenopause and hormonal shifts in both
3:58
men and women, we end up with mood
4:01
swings. We've got exhaustion, disrupted
4:03
sleep, irritability, and this makes it
4:06
harder to remain open and connected with
4:08
our partners. We also oftentimes deal
4:11
with like stress and mental load of our
4:13
jobs and our families. We've got kids,
4:16
we they're sometimes teenagers, we've
4:18
got aging parents that require more
4:20
demand of us, demanding careers.
4:23
oftentimes in midlife we're kind of at
4:25
the prime of our career and this is when
4:28
personal lives become so stressful as
4:30
well depending on the ages of our kids
4:31
if we have them. So when our nervous
4:34
systems in that survival mode connection
4:36
becomes secondary. It's not what we
4:38
focus on and that's really why
4:40
oftentimes in midlife we experience
4:42
this. We run into identity shifts
4:44
oftentimes at this point as well. You
4:47
know, things like becoming an empty
4:49
neester or maybe we end up in a career
4:51
transition because we've been promoted
4:53
or we're in a position of more
4:55
leadership and management at this point
4:57
in our life. All coupled with our body
5:00
changing and how things aren't as easy
5:02
physically as they used to be. This
5:05
grief all can erode our internal
5:07
stability. And I think we don't dis
5:10
disconnect from one another quickly. It
5:13
takes time. These attachment ruptures
5:15
happen slowly over time and these small
5:18
disconnections add up. These look like
5:21
misbids for attention. You know, this is
5:23
you put your hand on your partner's back
5:25
and they don't really notice or return
5:27
the touch because they're distracted or
5:29
they're disconnected from their own
5:30
world. This is maybe unresolved
5:32
conflict. You know, all couples go
5:34
through a negative interaction cycle
5:36
where we have conflict. Constructive
5:38
tension and conflict are part of every
5:40
relationship. And some couples, they
5:43
don't necessarily resolve. They just go
5:45
along and get along. They separate and
5:48
they disconnect from the conflict and
5:50
then they come back as if nothing ever
5:52
happened. And this pattern over time,
5:54
this rupture will create disconnection.
5:57
Small dismissals are not nothing.
5:59
They're really important. The eye roll,
6:01
the shutdown, the huffs and puffs that
6:04
you might do under your breath, the
6:06
argument never revisited after conflict,
6:09
these all stack into like protective
6:11
walls. And then we have to really take
6:13
time to remove those bricks one by one
6:17
and that takes a lot of effort.
6:18
Rebuilding connection is rebuilding
6:21
micro moments of presence. So these are
6:24
those small physical touches. a gentle
6:26
hand on the shoulder, on the back, just
6:28
a soft glance and a grin. Shared
6:31
laughter, thank yous more often than
6:34
not, and appreciation. Because closeness
6:37
will grow in these micro moments.
6:39
Connection isn't rebuilt through grand
6:41
gestures. It's small moments. It's
6:43
rebuilt through consistent, gentle
6:45
presence, little moments that say, "I
6:48
see you. You matter to me. You're
6:50
important to me." and and that's more
6:52
important than anything that I'm
6:54
currently dealing with or doing.
6:55
Disconnection in midlife doesn't mean
6:58
that you're failing. It's just a sign
7:00
that says, "Knock knock. We need to pay
7:02
attention. We need to check in with
7:04
what's going on. We need to update how
7:06
we're showing up for each other with
7:08
love." Now, as our relationship has
7:10
evolved, something that's really
7:12
critical to master couples or bringing
7:15
yourself back into connection is to
7:17
repair the little hurts. It's saying
7:19
things like, "I'm sorry," or, "I didn't
7:21
realize that that impacted you. Can you
7:23
tell me more about what that was like?"
7:25
"Sorry I missed you there in that
7:27
moment." Because repair builds trust.
7:30
And when we have trust rebuilt, we end
7:32
up with more emotional safety, which
7:34
cultivates connection. For many women,
7:36
pmenopause feels like losing the
7:39
rulebook to your own body. I know for
7:41
me, when it started, I was like,
7:43
everything was so predictable, 28 day
7:45
cycle. I knew why I was acting crazy and
7:47
irritable about a week beforehand. And
7:49
all of a sudden, you start experiencing
7:51
mood changes, sleep disruption, anxiety
7:54
when you would not have felt it, super
7:56
irritable or angry at times when I
7:58
wouldn't have felt it, or even with
8:00
people that I never feel frustrated
8:01
with. Tamson Fidal often talks about
8:04
women feeling blindsided by perry
8:06
menopause, not because it's rare, but
8:09
because again, no one prepared us for
8:10
this. No one prepared us to understand
8:12
that this is something that could come.
8:15
And because things are, you know, going
8:17
along just fine and normal, you don't
8:18
see it coming. So symptoms can affect
8:21
things like physical sensations and
8:23
physical body aches and pains, night
8:26
sweats and hot flashes. This is when I
8:29
knew this was fully happening. And I
8:31
come from a background where I really
8:33
wanted to just honor the body,
8:35
understand what the body can do. It's
8:37
been doing this forever. It knows how to
8:39
handle this. It knows what to do. And I
8:41
really tried to just let everything ride
8:43
until I was like six months into this
8:46
phase and I'm barely sleeping because
8:48
I'm waking up so many times a night with
8:50
these sweats and these hot flashes and
8:52
it's like your own personal summer. It's
8:55
so crazy when it happens to you and
8:57
there's just nothing you can do. And so
8:59
then I'm so tired. So there's the
9:00
fatigue that doesn't resolve with rest
9:03
and chronic fatigue that ends up kind of
9:05
happening at least if you end up like I
9:07
did with all these hot flashes. The
9:09
exhaustion was just killing me. You can
9:11
end up with joint pain, weight
9:13
redistribution. That was another thing I
9:15
started to notice is like I'm not doing
9:17
anything different. I'm not overeating.
9:19
I'm not getting any less exercise. But
9:21
all of a sudden things started to shift
9:23
and be different and texture started
9:26
changing and I just was like, what is
9:28
going on? I'm too young to look like
9:30
this. It that's the story that I told
9:32
myself. Headaches can happen. Heart
9:34
palpitations. Sometimes people would
9:36
attribute the heart palpitations to like
9:38
a thyroid imbalance or anxiety. And this
9:41
is something that can happen in
9:42
pmenopause. We end up with like
9:44
cognitive issues, you know,
9:46
forgetfulness, brain fog, memory lapses.
9:50
This is happening with some of my
9:51
friends. I've noticed like I don't know
9:52
what I was going to say. It's just gone.
9:54
And that's something that's started to
9:55
happen in my friend group because we're
9:57
all, you know, currently going through
9:59
this phase. And then there's difficulty
10:01
concentrating that can happen. Finding a
10:03
word. Uh, I make a joke where I say when
10:06
I can't find a thought, I'll tell people
10:09
like, "The library man is up there. He's
10:10
got to look through the files to figure
10:12
out where did we put this because I
10:13
cannot find it." Because sometimes just
10:16
finding a thought that you absolutely
10:17
know can be difficult. There's emotional
10:19
and nervous system issues because
10:21
remember emotions are chemical and
10:24
hormones affect emotion tremendously and
10:28
the nervous system is now reacting to
10:30
the emotional shifts and so it's it's
10:33
taxing. It's it's overwhelming and so
10:35
there can be increased anxiety or even
10:37
panic which for those of you who are
10:39
unaware panic is part of the grief and
10:41
loss system. So I think part of that
10:44
panic is like what's happening to me?
10:46
Where am I going? And and I'm losing
10:48
myself and I think that can be part of
10:50
that panic. Of course irritability or
10:52
rage. This is the one that most likely
10:54
impacts relationships. But then it's the
10:56
up and down, the mood swings that you
10:58
might experience as these hormones
11:00
become so unpredictable. Like I used to
11:02
be able to handle everything and now I
11:04
can't and I don't know what's happened
11:06
to me. And it's not a personal failure.
11:08
It's a physiological shift. You know,
11:10
the human body is only capable of so
11:12
much. And when that stuff starts to
11:15
change, we can't really do anything
11:17
about it really without intervening
11:20
medically. We're grieving the body that
11:23
felt predictable and understandable and
11:26
the energy that we used to have, the
11:28
emotional regulation that you relied on
11:30
to handle life's stressors and that
11:33
version of yourself that coped more
11:35
easily and could handle things that now
11:38
create overwhelm. There's there's grief
11:40
in that. Fidel talks about this openly
11:43
and how pmenopause can feel like waking
11:46
up in a body that you don't recognize.
11:48
And then you know as that happens it
11:50
triggers emotions in us like shame,
11:53
self-doubt, insecurity, fear of aging, a
11:57
sense of invisibility you know and and
12:00
as time goes on faster as we age because
12:03
of more of our lifetime being behind us.
12:06
And so some of the common relational
12:08
impacts that happen while in perry
12:10
menopause are reduced sexual desire.
12:13
Sometimes because of the inability for
12:15
arousal, sometimes because of exhaustion
12:17
and fatigue, sometimes because your body
12:20
just doesn't work the way that it used
12:21
to. And so there's increased
12:24
irritability or conflict because of the
12:26
disconnection that not being intimate
12:28
can create. There can be less tolerance
12:31
for emotional labor or overwhelm and
12:34
need for more rest and more boundaries.
12:36
And partners might say things like,
12:38
"You've changed or you're not like you
12:40
used to be." and they are right, but
12:43
it's not in the way that implies blame
12:45
or something that is, you know, of
12:47
fault. Oftentimes, what's needed is
12:49
education for partners. And that's part
12:51
of why I wanted to do this show. I think
12:52
a lot of men don't really understand
12:54
what's happening as their partner
12:56
changes. And so, we want to reframe
12:58
these symptoms as physiological, right?
13:00
Like, you're not mad at your partner
13:02
when they're pregnant, and we know their
13:04
emotions are all over the place. And so,
13:06
we need to not be mad at them when their
13:08
hormones are all over the place during
13:09
pmenopause as well. You're not imagining
13:12
it. You aren't weak. You're not failing.
13:14
Your body is just communicating to you.
13:16
And it deserves curiosity and care and
13:19
support, not shame and dismissal.
13:22
Pmenopause is not a personal problem.
13:24
It's a biological transition that
13:26
deserves social and relational
13:28
understanding, which was the other
13:30
reason I wanted to do this show. So,
13:33
thank you so much for tuning in to
13:34
Adaptable today. I really appreciate
13:37
your time. Something I did want to ask
13:39
for for those of you who are listeners
13:42
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like and a share. So again, thank you so
14:07
much for tuning in today. You're not
14:09
alone. And until we meet again, don't
14:12
forget to lead with love. It'll never
14:14
steer you wrong.
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#Women's Health
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