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Senators Roundtable - Thomson Signs in SHL, Looking Back at Past NHL Drafts & More
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May 15, 2024
In this episode of The Hockey Writers Senators Roundtable, Ottawa Senators writers Jacob Billington and Dayton Reimer get together to discuss Lassi Thomson signing in the SHL, look back at past Senators draft classes, the state of the prospect pool, and more. The Senators Roundtable crew are great writers too - Jacob Billington - https://thehockeywriters.com/author/jbillington/ Paul Quinney - https://thehockeywriters.com/author/pquinney/ Dayton Reimer - https://thehockeywriters.com/author/dreimer/ Subscribe to The Hockey Writers Ottawa Senators Substack for all the best Sens content - https://thehockeywriters.substack.com/subscribe Follow The Hockey Writers: Twitter - https://twitter.com/TheHockeyWriter Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thehockeywriters_ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TheHockeyWriters/ Graphics by Vince Richard - https://www.behance.net/vincergraphics #senators #ottawasenators #nhl #nhldraft
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0:00
Hey, everybody
0:02
Welcome back to the Senators Roundtable. I'm your host, Jacob Billington, joined by just Dayton this week
0:07
Last week we had just Paul. Dayton, how did the Saskatoon Blades do at the game you went to
0:14
Not great. Good time, though. Yeah, I did have a good time, but they lost, like, 10 seconds into overtime
0:23
It was the sixth overtime in seven games. It was good series
0:28
It was tight. It was soaked tight and seeing the warriors give it to the Portland Winter Hawks is somewhat satisfying
0:37
Just because I think if the blades had been the one on top instead, then I think they would have been in a similar situation
0:44
So like being that close sucks, but also, you know, I don't know
0:50
Barry horn split feelings. It's like the argument, would you rather lose in the first round to the eventual Stanley Cup champions
0:56
Like does that help soften the blow if, you know, you were kind of. took them to seven
1:00
I don't know. But yeah, there's not a ton of senators news
1:05
to come out over this week. I mean, the playoffs have been extremely exciting and we've all kind of been keeping an eye on that
1:10
But for the senators, we're kind of in draft mode. We're going to hold off on our draft conversations
1:15
for a couple weeks. Dayton and I have actually a premium substack
1:18
coming out tomorrow that we kind of combined and did a power ranking of our top eight
1:23
ideal draft candidates. So maybe next week or the following week, We'll kind of recap that and let that sink in a little bit
1:31
But there's some pretty exciting names for Ottawa to be available at Eliventh overall, which is a pick they've never used before
1:37
They've never used a seventh overall. The last time that they had it, they traded it for Alex DeBrinkept
1:41
and they've never actually selected a player seven. So we're going to steer away from the draft stuff for now
1:50
And let's talk about a little bit of a prospect update. So Lassie Thompson today signed in the Swedish Hockey League
1:56
I fully expected it. Somebody told me that he's not going to be back
2:01
and I 100% believe them, didn't give them any doubt. What do you think of Lassie Thompson
2:07
He's still part of the Senator's organization, but where do you sit as of today
2:12
with just kind of how ever since the pick was made? What do you think of Lassie Thompson and his path
2:17
to now signing in the SHL? Yeah, it's a tough one to put into work
2:26
because of the way that it was introduced. He was never going to be the person that Pierre Dorian thought he was going to be
2:36
I think most scouts would have told you that. So when he was picked, it's like, okay, so you have a potential top four defenseman
2:42
He's a good puck mover, good skater. And then didn't really develop well over the lockouts, or not the lockouts, but the pandemic shortened seasons
2:52
Yeah. And didn't really get up. opportunities this last season was maybe one of the worst, getting claimed on waivers twice
3:04
didn't get any call-ups as far as I can remember, didn't look fantastic in the minors
3:11
I mean, he was fine, but you'd expect someone a little bit better for, I think he was a top 16 pick
3:18
wasn't he? 19th overall, I believe. 18th. Okay, I knew he was close
3:23
So, yeah, 21.67 games. I don't want to say it's a waste, but it should have been so much better
3:35
Yeah, it was never a pick that was going to work out
3:40
It just never felt like it. He was never really given a true chance
3:44
I feel like he's one of the players that would have done better getting thrown to the wolves in the NHL
3:50
So like we saw with Jacob Bernard Docker took a few years. to kind of sit and brew a little bit
3:55
And with Lassie Thompson, he just, it was a while until he got his shot. He was selected in 2019
4:01
played a season and a half in Finland, and then came over to Belleville
4:05
He got 16 games in Ottawa in 2021, 22. And then he had two games last season, I think
4:13
So nothing real exciting for NHL opportunities. He did have a really good season last year in the AHL
4:21
He had 33 points in 56 games. and played some pretty good defensive play
4:26
Like he was a good two-way guy. And people were kind of wondering if this was going to be the year for him
4:31
to kind of break in and maybe take the role that Jacob Bernard Docker had this year
4:35
Or a lot of people were hoping he would take the role of Travis Hammondick had this year
4:40
And just get him into the NHL, see what he really is. And that just didn't happen in preseason training camp
4:45
He got waived, claimed by the Ducks and then reclaimed by the senators. It kind of felt like he was doomed
4:53
from the get-go. I can't even put it into words like you said. It just
4:57
it never felt like it was meant to be. And I felt the same about Jacob Bernard Docker for a while
5:02
And this year he kind of proved that he is that guy. But those back-to-back first-round picks
5:08
Lassie Thompson and Jacob Bernard Docker did not age very well. You'd like to see it a little bit better at a Bernard Docker for
5:14
what was he, 26th overall, 28th overall. But he's panning out fine now
5:20
Going to be a solid bottom four guy. but with Lassie Thompson, it's no surprise that he's going to the SHL
5:27
There is, he reached a dead end in North America. Yeah. And I think a lot of the defensive prospects that the center has had at that time have hit a similar wall
5:40
Like Eric Brandstrom has done well because he's a very skilled player
5:45
but he's not playing the way that he should have been. They've turned him into a defensive specialist at 5'10
5:52
And like, great. You got a Chris Russell type guy in your bottom six
5:56
Or not bottom six, bottom four. That's fine. But when you paid Mark Stone to get that
6:04
yeah, I don't know. Lassie Thompson, high pick, or high-ish, right? Had the potential to be a top four buck-moving defenseman
6:13
And they just never gave him the chance. And you could tell at the end of the interviews last year
6:18
he had such a strong season and was given two games. he was bummed
6:25
He was frustrated. He wanted bigger shots and he didn't get it, even though he should have
6:32
And then with the senator's mess of a cap situation, he was forced on to waivers
6:37
And I think that killed it. I think the senators at the beginning of this season killed all hopes of having Thompson in their franchise moving forward
6:48
And yeah his rights are still owned but he not back he done with Ottawa I think Yeah Well did you know that Ottawa still owns Vitaly Abramov rights too Like it going to be that kind of situation
6:57
Oh, he's not coming back either. No. They burned too many bridges with too many of their good prospects
7:04
And not saying that Thompson would have fixed things or Abramov would have fixed things
7:09
but having, you know, some of those mid-tier guys pay off would have been much better than what it became
7:17
Yeah. a couple of names. So I just brought up 2019 Senators Prospect Ranking
7:26
This list, and this is Corey Promin from the Athletic. So subtractions and graduates
7:33
before we get into this. I just kind of want to read through this pretty quick. So Brady Kuchuk, Colin White
7:40
and then some other great names, Christian Eros, Christian Wolanin, Rudolf Balser, and Maxim Lajois
7:47
Those are the graduates. out of this. Other than Kachuk and Colin White, that's a lot of blah
7:54
So. Yeah. Jaros and Wollinen were two guys who also, I think, got kicked to the curb a little bit
8:02
They had potential. They had the ability to be kind of those bottom four guys, and they just weren't
8:10
given the shot, and they stagnated. Yeah. So looking through this list, Corey Prondman did actually a fantastic job
8:17
of like this ranking is pretty accurate. I would say that this is 90% correct with how it turned out
8:25
So number one, Drake Batherson. Yeah, he's absolutely number one. Number two, Eric Brandstrom at the time, that's very valid
8:33
And to be honest, looking at the rest of this list, he was probably the second best prospect at the time even now
8:39
Number three, Alex Formington. We all know what happened there. He was on a great trajectory
8:45
Logan Brown, number four. That's the name I haven't heard of in a while
8:50
Number five was Josh Norris. And then number six, Lassie Thompson. So Thompson was a bit higher regarded
8:58
And the tier for his prospect is very good slash legit bubble prospect
9:03
That didn't pan out as well. But, I mean, that's kind of the thought that when he was drafted
9:08
Then you got Mad Sogarde, Jacob Bernard Docker, Vitaly Abramov, Joey DeCord, Philip Schlappick, Parker, Max Veronell
9:17
Jonathan Davidson and Marcus Hogberg and then Shane Pinto and Philip Gustavson
9:24
wow so they're a bit lower than obviously they deserve to be in hindsight
9:28
but no like there's not a lot of exciting names in there two years into the rebuild
9:34
and here we are today fire out of the playoffs with the seventh overall pick
9:39
and I don't know if our prospect pool for the senators is much better than that
9:44
so yeah I would think that a lot of Senators fans, you know, would, excuse me, would kind of assume, or not assume, but trying to think of the right words
10:00
Like the Pierre Dorian era is one that is difficult to quantify because there were some real good moments
10:12
but I think to see how quickly all of those moves are souring maybe
10:21
reveals something about Dorian that no Senator's fan wanted to acknowledge during his tenure yeah
10:32
like the Thompson pick was hailed as this is the guy we can build around and
10:40
no one would have said that at the draft other than Dorian
10:45
but to see him leave for nothing and the 2021 draft which was you know
10:51
like hey we have so many good guys the public don't know what we're talking about
10:58
I think they're all but like two guys are still with the organization
11:04
they just let them go yeah that's the 2021 draft Tyler Boucher
11:10
that's we could talk about that one another day uh zack o stopchuk that's that's a really good pick um ben roger
11:18
wasn't signed he went back and reentered the draft wasn't selected again which is yeah telling um olivri o'anson
11:26
meh he's he's a prospect um karsson latimer and chanler romayle they're both none of them were signed
11:34
so three of the six picks already um less than three years after that draft are
11:40
not in the organization. Yeah. So, yeah, that was, that was a terrible draft
11:46
And then you got Tyler Boucher, who, I don't know. But the 2020 draft, we can kind of move on to that and just talk a little bit of a
11:56
prospect update here. A lot more, there was a lot more picks, but there was also a lot more positive picks coming
12:04
out of it. So Oscar Pedersen looks to be okay. But Stephen Halliday has had all eyes on him over the
12:10
the past couple weeks. He did absolutely fantastic during the set of Belleville senators
12:16
I almost said Binghamton. Wow. The Belleville senators playoff run. Yeah, I don't know where that came from
12:24
But Stephen Halliday has done very well. He is an excellent playmaker
12:28
He's got good size. He's got good skating. I think that he's got a lot of the attributes that are needed to kind of make that transition
12:36
I think he could do really well as like a third line scoring winger. Mm-hmm. um jorine donovan he's doing really well um he did good in the oh hl this year um cam o'neill he had an okay season in the ncd
12:50
a couple other names in there but not a ton of standouts in last last draft i mean
12:56
hoit stanley matthew antonovsky owen beckner vladimir nikitin nikitin did have a really good um
13:04
season within the b garbage l so um take that as you will and nickyton
13:10
Van Tassel. I don't know if over the course of the season I heard any of those names
13:16
Like I at the draft looked at them, said, cool, this is what we got. I don't know if I heard
13:21
any of their names through the course of this season. Like they're just all blah. I mean, it was
13:25
a fourth, a fourth round pick, a fifth round pick, and three seventh round picks. That's all
13:30
I was. It was another draft of just like adding role players. Yeah. Hoyt Stanley had the most
13:37
upside of all of them. And I don think he passes a second pairing defensive defense He a big lanky defender That what he does He won put up points
13:52
And we're seeing that in, is he Cornell? Yes, I want to say he's at Cornell
14:01
Yes. He's playing NCAA anyways. Yeah. And like fine, but I think he had maybe less than 10 points this year
14:08
He had 10 in 35 games. Was it 10? Okay. I hadn't checked in a minute
14:14
So, yeah, like, intriguing, but there's not a lot of offensive upside. Andanovsky is a tough guy
14:21
Ben Tassel is a late round pick. Cam O'Neill, I think, was another overage pick that Dorian loved doing
14:31
Yeah, I think. Just a lot of blah. Yeah. And, I mean
14:37
And that's kind of the way that you maybe talk about. most of the picks with Doriot
14:44
Yeah. Especially now that that era has ended. And it's just, meh. Really? All right
14:52
Yeah. Outside of the 2020 draft, Dorian did not really have any good draft
14:58
I mean, the 2017 draft, Alex Foreminton and Drake Batherson, that was fantastic
15:03
But your first round pick was Shane Bowers. I think he has..
15:08
Yikes. Okay. He has less than 10 NHL games. um 2018 um that was good you got kuch and bernard docker in the first round there um
15:16
bernard docker i didn't realize but he already hit the hundred game mark he has 104 games
15:21
played um so yeah i guess it's hard to say that that's underwhelming i guess his play i mean 16
15:27
points he's not all about the points but um yeah and then you got johnny ticconic jonathan
15:33
and Gruden, Crookshank, Mandelese, and then Yakov, Novak and Luke Lojite, blah
15:41
Like, outside of Crookshank, the rest of that. Outside of the first round, outside of Crookshank, it's just meh
15:48
And he got Lassie Thompson in that 2019. And then Shane Pinto, Mad Sogerd, Mark Castellick and Max Gunnet
15:55
2019, that was a pretty good draft. Okay? Yeah. 2020, All-timer. And then we just talked to it, the last three
16:00
So just, you're right. like a lot of just meh drafts yeah and even the guys that they they hit on like some of the
16:09
underrated picks were not they're not high potential guys like they're succeeding like angus
16:21
crookshank could be a second line guy and that would be amazing probably a third line guy but
16:27
he's but at the same time he was drafted the same year as brady kachuk yeah and he
16:32
He still has, what, 12 NHL games, 13? Something like that, yeah
16:37
Accents-Guinette could be a second-paring defenseman, probably more so a third pairing
16:42
But you're just not getting a lot of potential. And they kept adding role-in-depth guys
16:48
when they could have added potential. And you see other teams like the Sabres and the Red Wings
16:53
who went out and drafted high-potential guys with all of their picks, or at least most of them
17:00
And they hit on more of them. so yeah not to get like super down on doryon's time it's just it's tough to think of an optimistic thought
17:14
when you're starting to look at the draft like yes stay has a completely brand new track record
17:22
let's see what he does but he's got a lot to work due to make this team uh complete yeah and i mean
17:32
you mentioned that Steyos, this is his first draft. I don't know, like, obviously, one draft
17:37
you're not going to really set trends for yourself and what kind of things you like to do in the draft
17:41
But it'll be interesting to see if he deviates from what Dorian like to do
17:46
Who is their head amateur scout? I think they... No, they don't..
17:56
They got rid of their pro scout. I just looked it up on their web
18:02
site. Miko Ruto is their chief European scout
18:12
They don't have a head amateur scout. They didn't name one after firing man
18:19
That's who it was. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see how this group comes together
18:26
Obviously, people aren't focusing too much on the amateur scouts in an organization
18:32
It's just not something people do. The head scout, yes. But it'll be interesting to see what this group of people can kind of collaborate and come up with and what Steyos likes to do
18:41
And especially with the seventh and it's likely going to be the 28th overall draft pick or 27th or something like that
18:48
Yeah, it'll be like for sure. It'll be interesting to see what Ottawa does. And if they want to trade up, if that's something they want to do, get kind of a high school guy
18:55
Like if one of these top 15 players start sliding a little bit, trade up a little bit and try and
19:02
Pick one up. I don't know. It'll be interesting to see. Yep
19:07
Last week, Paul and I talked about Travis Green. There's not much else to really talk about
19:15
I just kind of want to get your general thoughts on the hiring in itself
19:21
I saw a lot of people hating on it. And I was always kind of curious why there was so much hate
19:26
Like, yeah, you didn't get the big name coaches, but you weren't going to
19:31
I don't know if that's too harsh to say. I think that's not fair to say anymore because it's not a Doreon Melnick team
19:40
And Ottawa does have a lot of young prospects or young stars coming up
19:45
I do think that Barouba did consider it and McClellan considered it and whatnot
19:49
But I do get your point. Yeah. Not to say that Ottawa couldn't get them
19:56
But there was a lot of open positions, a lot more attractive positions
19:59
and the senators did not do well. So why would a coach, who has a really good track record
20:06
want to come to an underperforming team? So like Staeos, when he was hired
20:11
was kind of an up-and-coming candidate for a top GM spot, but not a big name
20:18
Yeah, that's fair. I think that's the same thing with Travis Green. He's not a big name
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He's a bit of an up-and-comer. He coached really well in the HAL
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got a job with the Canucks who didn't do super well but the Canucks were kind of a mess and it unfair to place all of his poor record on him and not on the makeup of that team
20:46
They've made a lot of changes since. And putting Tocke in the coaching position has helped that situation, partly because they have a better team construction
21:00
And he was also not a popular pick, right? Right. People did not want Talkin
21:06
Because he didn't have really a great coaching record either. I think Green is smart
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I think he has a lot of talent. I think he works well with younger players
21:18
which the senators still are. But he's not a pushover. He was more of a tough guy in the NHL
21:25
He would be a Berubei light, in my opinion. Yeah. Both have that, you know, that grinder, that in your face kind of personality that I think will make the Kachuk-led senators a lot more formidable
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He will probably need some time for adjustment. Hopefully that only takes a few months and not a full season
21:53
Usually a new coach does. I like the hiring. I think it is one that has a lot of potential
22:00
because I think a lot of teams do turn to the big names and think this will solve our problems
22:08
And then when it doesn't, it's like, ah, terrible, bad, fired. And it's all on the coach
22:13
And this has to be a team effort. One thing that stood out to me over the last week was Mark My Thoughts tweet
22:22
I don't know if you saw it. No, I missed that one. I'm going to bring it up so I can make sure I'm not misquoting him
22:28
but he was talking about the fact that people put too much emphasis on
22:34
so here it is unpopular opinion but there's way too much emphasis on head coaches in the
22:41
NHL it's ridiculous now team success hinges mostly on the leaders and core players everybody
22:45
knows it but not enough people want to talk about it in the salary cap era it's just easier
22:49
to dump the coach instead I 100% agree I think that people put way too much emphasis on
22:55
who the head coach is they talk about the system's much. I'm guilty for it too, but that's just how NHL kind of media and fans are now
23:04
And I just think that a lot of it does come down to, like, how much learning did these
23:09
players really need? Like, what are you going to come in and teach Claude Jureau? Right? And after all these years, what are you going to come in and teach Thomas Shabbat
23:17
Like, can you really change Thomas Chabot's game? Or at this point, Brady Kachuk
23:21
You could, I'd say Tim Stutzel, Shane Pinto, they still have some molding they could do
23:25
but like you can't really come in and teach these things you can tell them we want to be more
23:31
aggressive on the forecheck okay that's a little bit of style but and coaches do play an important
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role but i think there's too much emphasis on the role that they play and i think mark
23:40
mitha is absolutely correct yeah 100% they're with you i think you guys well i think
23:46
the thought hit the nail on the head with that and yeah um i think what you can blame the coach
23:54
for is deployment. Yeah. Because he's the one who kind of controls who goes out on the ice, right
24:00
Yeah. And so, yes, you should blame DJ King. No, DJ Smith
24:07
Yikes. Okay. It's been a long day. You can blame DJ Smith for not playing some of the defensive prospects when they got
24:16
called up. I think he had his favorites, and those who weren't his favorites weren't played
24:24
That is bad, and I think that hurt the team. You can't blame him for the senators continuously underperforming night in and night out
24:33
That has to do with the core. That has to do with the players on the team
24:39
And if they're not doing it, and especially if they don't do it coming up, there's going to be some big changes
24:44
And I think Staeos is kind of holding his cards close to his chest and bringing in a new guy who can bring a new perspective
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Travis Green certainly will and really evaluating this team for what it is
25:00
And I think this is kind of the make or break year. I think having a fresh slate for a coach is a really good thing
25:10
One thing that I've noticed is everything is about like the label that you have as a player
25:16
So if you go look at the Carolina Hurricanes, they scratched Vgeny Kuznetsov in the playoffs
25:24
Like game two of the second round, they scratched them. Now, is Fgeny Kuznetsov, the kind of player you want to scratch
25:31
Absolutely not. And is he playing well? Absolutely. He's done some fantastic things
25:37
He took a stupid penalty that led to a power play goal for the Rangers, and he got scratched the next game
25:42
His, the perception around Kuznetsov over the last year and a half, two years has been
25:47
he's taken a step back and whatnot, but he really hasn't been playing bad the capitals have just been getting older and less offense i mean ovecum barely cracked um 30
25:55
goals this year uh did he even hit 30 yeah he hit 30 i think he got 31 um and just all that kept
26:03
taken a step back but since coming to carolina kuznetsov's been really good but he's been getting
26:07
scratched so it's all about like the label that you have as a player and can you scratch this guy
26:13
like if sebastian ojo was making the same mistakes he's not going to get scratched right and i know
26:17
Sebastian O'Hoh is much better than Kuznetsov today, but it's just the identity that a player has is all that matters
26:28
And so coming in with a fresh slate for Travis Green saying, okay, well, maybe you're not going to scratch Tim Stutzel or Brady Kachuk on these nights
26:35
But maybe he's going to be more willing to sit Drake Batherson for a night if he's making silly mistakes
26:40
Or he's going to sit Thomas Shabbat for a night, maybe. I don't know
26:44
I'm not saying he should, just depending on the play and whatnot. But maybe he's going to be more willing to do that
26:50
Hold players more accountable. Kind of say, listen, I think you need to watch from the overhead
26:53
and kind of just relook at the game, see how things are played
26:58
I don't know. I just think that we didn't see any accountability from DJ Smith
27:02
at least publicly. Again, I don't know what goes on in the locker room. But it's going to be really interesting to see kind of how he approaches things with a new team
27:11
Yeah. No, totally. Yeah. All right. Well, that's going to wrap things up for today
27:17
We, again, there's not a whole bunch to talk about. Diving into small draft classes is always fun
27:23
And yeah, just getting your thoughts on Travis Green. So if you enjoyed this episode, leave a like and a comment and we'll see you next week
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