Up next in 10
We explore how emotional avoidance, people-pleasing, and suppressing hard conversations can quietly impact both mental and physical health over time.
From nervous system overwhelm and perfectionism to chronic stress, burnout, and the body “keeping the score,” they unpack why short-term comfort can eventually become long-term cost.
Because avoiding discomfort may feel safer in the moment, but unresolved stress often shows up somewhere else, especially in the body.
Healing sometimes means learning how to tolerate the discomfort of honesty, boundaries, and hard conversations before life forces the issue through crisis, resentment, or illness.
Watch full episode here: https://youtu.be/NrpNhqVIa4I
#MentalHealth #Healing #Burnout #NervousSystem #adaptablebehaviorexplained
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0:00
That's one of like my most treasured
0:02
traits about my husband is that I really
0:04
trust that he's fully in my corner. And
0:06
sometimes that means he's going to call
0:07
me out on what I don't see in myself.
0:10
>> And I and I think that's really
0:12
important too, like in leadership roles
0:13
for me. I mean, I have strong people
0:15
around me, such as yourself, that are
0:17
willing to call me out on my stuff
0:19
>> so that I don't
0:20
>> bleed it in because of blind spots and
0:23
and or anxiety or overwhelm or all these
0:25
other things that happen,
0:27
>> you know, in our lives that
0:29
>> are part of,
0:30
>> you know, when things aren't going our
0:32
very best,
0:33
>> you know, for sure. But I think
0:35
something else we really need to talk
0:36
about, especially on this show, is
0:38
related to the adaptation of protection.
0:41
And I think the choosing comfort
0:45
>> is really the element of protection.
0:47
It's really about going, you know, from
0:49
like a nervous system perspective. Um
0:52
the short-term discomfort is so hard.
0:54
It's hard to tolerate. And that's about
0:56
my bandwidth. That's about what we've
0:58
talked about on other shows, the window
0:59
of tolerance. And I can't think and feel
1:02
at the same time. And so I either go
1:03
into that like hyperaroused state where
1:06
I tend to go. I tend to go to like
1:08
>> all in, all good. it's got to be perfect
1:12
or I've failed, you know, and not being
1:15
able to be in the more medium place
1:18
related to like leaning into discomfort
1:20
about certain things. So, my mind goes
1:22
to the ways that they protect. Thinking
1:25
of like how animals protect themselves,
1:28
>> retreating into a shell if you're a
1:29
turtle, right?
1:31
>> Burrowing down into the ground, you
1:32
know, if you're an animal that burrows
1:35
or someone who hibernates. And there's
1:37
safety in that, but there's also
1:39
aloneeness, right?
1:41
>> Isolation.
1:42
>> There's a cost.
1:43
>> And that's hard, right?
1:44
>> Right. It's hard to be un
1:46
>> unprotected, meaning I think vulnerable.
1:49
>> Yeah.
1:49
>> And you know, there's risk in that, but
1:52
that's where the reward is.
1:53
>> Yeah. But I think that to be clear, the
1:55
vulnerability and the risk typically is
1:57
facing the fear of failure of I did, you
2:00
know, I committed to the workout, the
2:02
diet, the meditation, and I missed a day
2:05
or I drank a beer or I had a, you know,
2:08
a bunch of dessert or whatever it is
2:10
that I did that would be like the
2:12
failure. And I think that people choose
2:14
the familiar
2:16
of the discomfort that they know
2:19
>> over the unfamiliar of the maybe the
2:22
deprivation or the leaning into the
2:24
discomfort or whatever it is.
2:26
>> Yeah.
2:27
>> Yeah. And when you think about
2:29
protection,
2:31
avoidance as protection as opposed to
2:34
failure, how would you want to talk to
2:36
our audience about that? Does that make
2:38
sense?
2:39
avoidance as
2:41
>> like I'm avoiding the hard conversation
2:43
or I'm avoiding the diet. I'll start
2:44
next. I'm good enough. It's good enough.
2:47
I'm you know I I mean
2:48
>> oh I do all the mental gymnastics around
2:50
that. So I can speak to it because
2:51
>> I'm playing that game like back and
2:53
forth right now even about just like my
2:55
physique at 50 and like I'm good 450. I
2:59
don't want to be good 450. I want to be
3:01
good just good. Like leave off the 450
3:03
please. It feels like a well you know
3:05
because when you're old you shouldn't
3:06
look good anymore. like it just to me it
3:08
has this underpinning of that and I
3:10
noticed myself going back I'm too hard
3:11
on myself I need to just relax and then
3:13
the other side is like no you get what
3:15
you put into it
3:16
>> and it's choosing whichever
3:18
>> hard yeah I go through a lot of the same
3:20
things I'll have the part of me that's
3:22
like
3:22
>> this is important to you've said over
3:25
and over that this is important to you
3:27
need to commit to that and be in
3:28
alignment with your values right
3:29
>> and then it's Friday and the part of me
3:33
that comes up it's like just live your
3:34
life you want to enjoy life Right.
3:37
>> Uh and I the shift to try to say, you
3:40
know, I want to enjoy my life,
3:43
>> not just right now,
3:44
>> but to make choices that are going to
3:46
help me to enjoy it
3:47
>> for for years down the road. And not
3:49
just around, I think, health, but also
3:52
>> relationships, having a hard
3:53
conversation,
3:54
>> when it needs to happen,
3:56
>> being able to handle conflict if you
3:59
know we need to have a a hard talk, you
4:01
know, my husband and I,
4:02
>> that's that's very real. and that in the
4:05
moment it feels like discomfort, but
4:06
it's going to, you know, help with
4:09
repair,
4:10
>> um, help us feel closer, unear what
4:12
needs to be talked about.
4:13
>> Sure. And when, when would you say that
4:16
the protection or the habit or the
4:18
pattern, you know, I would say choosing
4:21
the heart of avoiding
4:23
>> because I really think that's what it's
4:24
about. It's like we're avoiding the the
4:26
push. But when when do you think that
4:29
becomes costly?
4:31
>> Oh, it's always costly. I think I think
4:34
that but it's most apparent when
4:39
I think when it gets bad enough and and
4:41
for everyone that could be a different
4:43
>> that can be a different threshold,
4:44
>> right? like in a relationship maybe it's
4:47
you know we're bringing on divorce or
4:49
we're we're talking about breaking up or
4:51
you know in health it's like oh
4:53
>> I I have a chronic I've developed a
4:55
chronic illness or there's a pain that I
4:57
can't ignore anymore
5:00
>> or I feel winded going up to my
5:04
apartment up the couple steps of stairs
5:06
and then you realize that it's probably
5:07
time that we do something about it
5:08
>> right like where do you where do you
5:11
notice the body paying the price for
5:13
avoidant behavior the most from your
5:16
experience?
5:18
>> Well, I think that
5:19
>> it could be personal or it could be with
5:21
clients.
5:22
>> Yeah,
5:24
I think with with clients and where and
5:27
even personally I get think where my
5:29
mind goes is just the Louisa Hayes book
5:33
uh around what our body will manifest
5:36
>> when we're ignoring something, when
5:38
we're holding something in, when we're
5:39
not facing something. Right.
5:41
>> So, my mind always goes to kind of
5:43
chronic illnesses and and you know,
5:46
autoimmune issues
5:47
>> like the body keeps the score no matter
5:49
what. And for those of you who are
5:51
unfamiliar, Bessel Vanderolulk has a
5:53
beautiful body of work on this and
5:55
really brought it to mainstream mental
5:57
health concepts and and even medical
6:01
doctor concepts related to, you know, we
6:04
can avoid things for so long until we
6:06
end up in illness in disease disease.
6:10
you know, when our body has had an
6:12
excessive amount of cortisol and the
6:15
adrenal response is maxed and then we
6:17
end up with autoimmune issues and we end
6:19
up with disease and we end up with
6:21
gastrointestinal issues. I've got a
6:23
whole show on that um earlier in season
6:25
one that if this is resonating, check it
6:28
out for sure.
6:29
>> But, you know, why do you think
6:31
preventative choices feel harder than
6:33
like the crisis response? Why do we have
6:35
to wait? What do you think that's about?
6:38
Why do we have to wait till it's so bad
6:39
before we're like, "Okay, uncle."
6:41
>> Because it's it's it's a different hard
6:44
to do the things,
6:46
>> right?
6:46
>> It can it's that metaphor of like the
6:51
the frog was slowly boiling in water.
6:54
>> If you dropped the frog into the pot of
6:56
boiling water right away, it's going to
6:58
jump right out, right?
6:59
>> And I think we would too if we woke up
7:00
suddenly, you know, 10 years from now
7:03
facing the apex version of what we're
7:06
dealing with. But when it comes gradual,
7:08
it's easy to sit in like a place of
7:10
denial that things aren't really that
7:11
bad,
7:12
>> right?
7:13
>> Yeah.
7:13
>> I think that something that's helped me
7:15
and I filtered this year specifically
7:18
has been like I want to do things today
7:20
that my future Kelly will be happy with,
7:23
aka won't be pissed at my previous
7:25
Kelly. Like previous Kelly really blew
7:27
it here. And so what do I do in order to
7:30
make that a choice today, you know? And
7:32
I I I made an agreement with myself. Um,
7:36
one of my sons is doing 75 hard and he
7:39
just finished up and you know it was it
7:41
was admirable because he started over I
7:43
think once or twice because he messed up
7:45
and
7:46
>> good for him for starting over, right?
7:47
>> Most people I think would scrap it. I
7:49
might scrap it
7:50
>> because of my perfectionist stuff,
7:52
>> right? like this is just too hard.
#People & Society