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Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this episode, Recovery and Renewal: A Fire Captain's Journey (Part 1), we talk with Dennis Joos, Retired Gilbert Fire Captain, about life on the front lines, the hidden toll of service, and what it means to heal after trauma. It’s a powerful story of identity, resilience, and finding purpose beyond the uniform.
I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing!
I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all.
-- Links --
https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc
https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo
https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:06
Hi everyone, I'm Kelly O'Horo and this is Adaptable Behavior Explained. Good
0:12
afternoon. Thank you so much for tuning in today to Adaptable. I'm your host, Kelly O'Horo. I am a trauma therapist,
0:19
an EMDR specialist and trainer. And I created this show because I find that
0:25
people really struggle with understanding why people behave the way that they do. We find ourselves
0:31
comparing ourselves to others, how we would react, how we would respond. And oftentimes people are unfamiliar with
0:38
adaptation. And so this whole show is about adaptation. And today I am pleased
0:44
to be having with us my guest who is very special to me. His name is DJ and
0:50
he is a retired Gilbert fire captain uh here in Arizona. And he is no longer a
0:56
client but historically was a client. And um he's going to talk to us a little bit about his recovery from trauma and a
1:05
little bit about you know relapse and some things there and just hopefully
1:10
bring attention for any first responders or veterans or honestly anyone else who struggles with trauma recovery or
1:18
addiction some insights because I think that ultimately people feel very alone when they're in the darkness of this uh
1:25
phenomenon and it's just uh painful to feel alone with these sorts of things.
1:30
So DJ, go ahead and introduce yourself and and let our audience know why you
1:36
wanted to do this episode and get your story out there. Uh well, I just want to say thank you
1:42
for the privilege and honor to be able to do this, especially with you, uh your organization, B business you've built
1:49
and the clients and the clinicians you have in there, your staff. And I
1:55
remember early on um coming to you um and I wasn't ready and I kind of came in but I remember like who helps the first
2:03
responders like I didn't know where to go with that stuff kind of as my journey started in that field and then as I
2:09
started to build up some of that additional trauma and you were that first like 911 call
2:15
like where do we go and so I know that was kind of a passion for you as we got to know each other
2:20
with the military and the first responders and so there was just a big advocate for me to kind of get involved
2:26
with what you've provided for me and the organization and first responders and
2:32
military and where like you were the 911 call for me back in the day and that was just so
2:37
I just want to give back to what you've freely given me and I've learned so much over the years and
2:42
the journey we had together you know good, bad and ugly and so I just I just feel it's an obligation plus the
2:48
individuals out there that are still struggling with this right and how to get started and some of the
2:53
cultural changes that are going on in the industry and you've helped do a lot of that. So, yeah, I I think that it's so beautiful
3:01
for you to be unselfish in this way to share your story because so many people, especially in first responder culture,
3:08
are not brave enough to go and and unshame themselves with the truth about
3:13
their histories, how things load in your network, your your nervous system. and
3:18
just the compilation of, you know, call after call after death after, you know,
3:24
pain after anguish that you're witnessing just day in and day out. And then you're meant to walk back in your
3:30
front door as if you had a normal job. But it's just not fair to ask of the population. And so I I told you when you
3:37
came in, and I tell all first responders that I work with, let me be your first responder. I'll go to my therapist when
3:43
I have the vicarious trauma, which I certainly will. And um and I'll take care of that. It's not your job. It's
3:49
not your obligation to take care of us. And I think that uh perhaps a lot of
3:54
therapists don't understand that or maybe don't have the cultural training that is needed to do good work with with
4:01
your population. So, I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. So today we're going to talk about some specifics related to
4:07
someone like you who who has had a full career um identity grief. We're going to talk
4:13
about what it is to leave um this high stakes career and explore what that
4:19
looks like. the systemic challenges that happen when it comes to family systems,
4:25
the systems of, you know, first responder culture and what you're left with upon retirement and and how those
4:32
transitions can be so painful and also exciting and also exhilarating. But the
4:38
unknown, it can be oftenimes what people most struggle with. And also that lack of adrenaline once you retire, the no
4:46
more, you know, where you were getting that hit for the dopamine and the adrenaline uh the adrenaline that comes
4:51
from being on and then the absence of that there's an incredible amount of boredom. Yes.
4:57
And also your nervous system isn't downregulated in a way that is usual.
5:03
Yes. So it's it's pretty fascinating. So thank you so much for being absolutely
5:09
here. So, let's start with how did stepping away from the role initially
5:14
upon retirement affect your uh purpose and identity? I was, you know, I was thinking about
5:19
that a little bit the uh other night in regards to um as I got closer to that
5:24
end date. I kind of was I kind of was at that point where I felt like I was already a little fatigued. I was
5:30
physically and emotionally kind of at that wit's end. I' I'd done with with
5:36
Gilbert I'd done 25 years. I had a couple years prior to that. And so I kind of the tank was the tank was pretty
5:42
empty both physically with injuries and then mentally I was kind of at that point. And so I remember trying to stay a little bit longer and yet I kind of I
5:49
kept shifting the end date just because I feel like I needed to get out just for myself and and a number of different other reasons.
5:56
And so the self-worth that I had put in for so long in that career, I had a good
6:01
identity in that and had a good career and was successful and had great careers and had some really really great
6:07
benefits to that. But I didn't realize that magnitude of the impact and coming to you like preparing for that
6:14
retirement that end date. But it still caught me off guard. Sure. At a different capacity that I didn't
6:19
suspect. Well, and we'll talk more about just how Yeah. You know, no one can predict some
6:25
of the things that you went through right at the same time of as your transition. But, you know, upon leaving, what would you say? Did you have
6:32
awareness of or connection to parts of yourself that you hadn't faced or that
6:37
began to resurface? uh you know as you're not so focused on
6:43
going to work and and waiting for the red light and jumping in your gear. Is there parts of
6:48
you that became you became more aware of as the as the start of your retirement?
6:54
I think like kind of the relationship aspect of it with co-workers, family and friends. Some of that, you know,
6:59
disconnect that I had gone um and and worked with you achieved some of that.
7:05
But I think the true disconnect when I when I retired and officially took that uniform off and hung up the badge and
7:11
then I looked back on those relationships I had at work and some of the damage that had taken place and I
7:18
felt I left some of that open-ended and didn't address some of that. And so I think that started to resurface on top
7:23
of where where do I go from now? What's my purpose in life kind of type deal. So, I
7:29
felt just a little bit of that stuff kind of rise to where I'd left some of those relationships kind of in the in
7:34
the wind and and resolve some stuff that was important to me in regards to my character and values and stuff like
7:41
that. Right. One of the things that you were facing was the injury.
7:46
Yeah. You know, the injuries in your was it it was like neck and shoulder. Yeah. I had two shoulder surgeries. I tore an Achilles, back problems, elbow
7:53
stuff, and then I had they were going to try and fuse my neck. I I needed fusion on both sides of my neck
7:59
and I was in the middle of doing some of that stuff with uh barrerows. Um and I you know I'd gone to you and I'm like
8:04
hey I'm doing neck injections and doing you did stuff to help me with my neck and I got some relief but near the end I
8:10
just had so much pain and and discomfort going on with that. Yeah. that that was a that was injuries
8:15
are a big issue that line of work and you know you had had a a history of addiction
8:21
and had been in recovery for like what is it about eight eight and a half
8:28
years that 2011 is the first time I was introduced to the program one of the programs and
8:34
got familiar with that and enjoyed that and then in 2016 is where I was back in
8:39
right pretty dire straits right and so I I think that one of the important topics that I wanted to help our viewers
8:46
address really or address for our viewers rather is that a lot of times
8:51
people don't realize that injuries and then the pain medications that are then prescribed to clients um or patients
8:59
rather kick off that addiction cycle even when you were in a good place and
9:05
hadn't really relied on you know medications or you know the addictive I call them the too muches the things that
9:11
we fall back into when our nervous systems are needing regulation and we're
9:16
struggling with keeping a balanced calm sense of self and we're numbing with,
9:22
you know, I I've talked about on other shows, you know, addictions such as workcoholism or even working out. Some
9:30
people go to church every single day and and some wouldn't say that's an addiction, but anything that we do that's out of balance with like
9:35
homeostasis can be a too much. And and for you, you know, you had fallen into drinking young when you were very young
9:43
as well as you know other some other uh substances that you would abuse. And so I think that oftentimes many listeners
9:49
don't recognize that the prescribers are kicking off these propensity that you
9:55
hadn't really had to worry about for quite some time. So can you share a little bit with us about how that worked
10:01
for you related to you weren't on pain meds then they prescribed that. Absolutely. Yeah. and then and recovery
10:08
and addiction and stuff like that is part of my journey and story and and I I'm grateful to be able to uh you know
10:14
share that with the audience and people um because I think it's just very important um
10:19
so in regards to that near the end and so you know like I said I had I had eight and a half years I hadn't had
10:25
anything and it was an innocent thing and it was like we were kind of running out of things to do besides prior to
10:31
surgery and a physician said hey what about you know some painkillers and
10:36
I didn't I kind of paused for a minute and I didn't you know I didn't do the things I normally do when it comes to those
10:42
those devices that I used as tools in the wrong area. And so um I was
10:48
prescribed you know some opiates. Um and so I didn't you know I didn't let my sponsor know. I didn't let my wife
10:54
know. And and and that started that early early relapse by starting you know
11:00
to manage it right. Yeah. The secret part of it. secret at first and then it was, you know, oh, I have this and then
11:07
I'm trying to manage it and it did. And so when I got to that end date, it wasn't long and I don't really
11:13
remember when I picked up alcohol again after I retired, but due to that initial stuff, due to the pain and stuff like
11:18
that and taking those, it already kind of set me down that journey. Yeah. And then somewhere along that line
11:23
in retirement I did, you know, I don't even remember the date, but um you know, I picked up alcohol again and then it was
11:30
and so like what for you perhaps boundaries or things could have been put in place from the physicians so that
11:37
this maybe could have been avoided for you. Do you have any thoughts on that? No. And so like you know obviously
11:43
transparency is very big for me personally. Transparency with with your therapist and your doctors and I thought
11:48
I did a pretty good job of that overall. But I had so much time in this particular uh facility that they had I
11:56
hadn't built up that trust and I think innocently it was just how else can I
12:02
help you? Have you thought about this? And I didn't take that opportunity to really spell out the whole story and
12:08
kind of the history on how dangerous that is for me and where it's going to lead me and the things that had gone. So
12:13
yeah, part of that I left I left some of that, you know, that honesty out with shame and guilt attached to it.
12:19
Sure. Right. But yeah, that was the biggest part, you know, as you worked with me so much. It was to talk about that
12:25
transparency and so I went forward with that, but I I did leave that out near the end in regards to that. The little
12:30
light bulb went off and I remember it was that danger light, right? You know, and I didn't address it the right way.
12:36
Okay. So, for you it was a little bit of lack of transparency with the doctors themselves. I mean, you I think you were
12:42
pretty forthright at that point with me, but you know, I'm going to defer to prescribers. Yeah. and say, "Let's
12:49
really check in on this and make sure we're this is a short-term thing, you know, as much as we can, but that's
12:55
really the limit as far as what we can do is we can't tell people what to do." Yeah. You guys have your, you know, in
13:02
regards to that. So, I abused it, you know, and they were monitoring and then I went out and, you know, did other ways
13:08
to get it. Yeah. It was pretty Well, and I think that a lot of times there's really so much loss at this
13:14
transition time for you. you have loss of your physicality in the way that was normal and usual for you. Being strong,
13:22
being able to be mobile, to be able to be relied upon and and just being in so
13:27
much pain based on just overuse and injuries related to the job for so many
13:33
years. And so, you know, you have that loss. Yeah. Which is I don't feel okay. I don't feel
13:39
strong or whatever the things that were affecting you both physically and emotionally and and mentally. But then
13:45
you have this loss of of of somewhat of an identity with with retirement, right? And on one hand, you have time to go
13:51
address the physical side of things without the continued wear and tear on your body, which is a good thing, but
13:56
you also have all this time to feel the pain of the injuries and know where to distract yourself to you per se. So I
14:04
think that that's another loss that people don't oftenimes consider with the transition into a retirement aspect or
14:10
development of your of your life. But then you were hit with an insane amount
14:16
of I I mean I don't I think anybody would struggle with not falling back into their historic propensities with
14:24
whether it's addiction or anything else based on what you what you end up going through. So can you share with us what
14:29
I'm talking about? You had these losses and there was just so much so fast. Absolutely. And I look back and a lot of
14:37
this I just have to tell the viewers and you and and a lot of it's so much of my responsibility and action and behavior
14:43
that I needed to do things in a different way. Um but at that vulnerable state in my career as I retired and
14:50
going through those injuries and and and thinking I have a plan in place um and some sort of um you know development um
14:57
you know I had some I lost my stepfather I lost my father young when I was like 19 or 20 and then my mom remarried and I
15:04
had a a stepfather that was an amazing man. He'd been like sober 47 years. I'd lost him like in March first. I lost my
15:11
sponsor, a really an older gentleman that was very valuable to me like uh the
15:16
same month like 20 days later and then I lost a really good friend just out of the fluke uh like two months after that.
15:23
So within a six-month, these men in my life, you know, that, you know, I've been searching for for a long long time,
15:30
those those losses were very very Yeah. difficult for me.
15:35
Yeah. To handle. And then I felt since I wasn't in the department and some of the resources I had, I wasn't as susceptible
15:42
to reaching out for help in that in those times where Kelly, this is what's going on. What do I need to do?
15:48
And some different stuff like that. So yeah. Well, and and you know, getting hit with those huge losses all at the
15:53
same time of of losing your career and and dealing with all of this pain, you know, I think that obviously there's
16:01
some lessons there about our vulnerability and our resilience and and
16:06
how we're just human. Yeah. And I think that oftenimes people really underestimate the bandwidth that we can
16:13
handle. you know, we can only handle so much and then anybody, any body, the ody, anybody
16:21
will succumb to a capacity challenge, you know. And I think that I I'd be
16:26
really interested to know for you thinking back now, I mean, I I would imagine you underestimated
16:33
how much that was all kicked in your ass. 100%. Yeah. 100%. So, what lessons do you have for
16:40
our viewers related to really leaning in to when things happen? Like, what can
16:45
they do? Because I mean, you've you kind of learned it a little bit the hard way. Yeah, a little bit the hard way. Um,
16:50
you know, we you talked a long long time about the glass being too full and how to empty that out and regulate that
16:55
stuff. And so as I I entered that phase of my life and then those traumatic
17:01
losses, unprepared and not reaching for the correct tools to be able to handle that, whether it's
17:07
it's a faith portion of it or some sort of trauma therapy, I almost withdrew again like I did at work. Like I I felt
17:14
my body kind of going back into and I and I told you like it felt like work like here we go again. Three significant
17:20
deaths, right? I can't do anything about them. I was able because I was sober to be able to respond to the phone calls and I was
17:27
with my sponsor when they pulled the plug on him and his wife. So there was some comfort in that but in a different
17:32
role compared to what I was used to and not having any kind of actual field experience to be able to to mitigate
17:38
anything. So the loss there on top of the tragedy that took place and the
17:44
vulnerability and the sadness that went along with it. I hadn't compiled them like that in that short period of time
17:50
in a different setting besides work, right? And was able to separate that
17:57
with this was personal. These were people that mattered to you, that that raised you, that mentored you, that befriended
18:03
you. And I think that as a first responder, you compartmentalize. You put
18:09
on a different hat, you suit up, you show up, and you go have something you can do. you know,
18:16
there's a position and and obviously so much powerlessness for first responders as well, but there's a role.
18:22
You know, you you have a thing. You show up, you follow your training, you do what you're supposed to do so that you
18:27
can have a an impact. And when it's a personal experience like loss that you
18:33
went through, there's not anything to do except feel
18:38
it. Yeah. And then for you feel that which which in your case because of your story
18:44
losing very important men was catastrophic, you know, all at once and and having to
18:50
deal with all of that but then having nothing to do except feel it was new for
18:56
you. Yeah. And I remember you saying this is like being at work. Like death after death. It's just awful.
19:02
And I and I remember saying to you this is so much worse Yes. than being at work because
19:08
there is nothing you can do and that feeling of powerlessness and anguish for you and just so much loss.
19:15
I didn't know what had to put on. Yeah. And then it was so personal I couldn't even relate it. I could relate the loss
19:21
to work but not the personal right. Right. That experience was just a completely different kind of pain
19:28
that was different than you know the industry and stuff like that. So I was like, what hat do I put on and then
19:33
where do I do with this pain? Yeah. You're like, this is just significant. So when you do get to that, you know,
19:40
crossroads, whether it's retirement or just in life in general, because that's what, you know, life has is where you
19:48
are in your process with whatever you may be dealing with, whether it's recovery or trauma or or just life in
19:54
general, and then what are the tools in the toolbox to be able to reach out, right, and navigate those. hindsight, was there
20:01
a moment for you that kind of was the straw that broke the Campbell's back when it comes to, you know, you're in a
20:07
you're kind of in a faceown moment when you grab for alcohol at some point?
20:12
Yes. Do you have a moment? Do you can you share that? Because I think that a lot of times people really underestimate the
20:18
impact of these moments that we all go through, but you just got, like I said, you got your ass kicked all at once. And
20:25
having been a first responder, you know, part of the culture is pull up your bootstraps and deal with that later. And
20:30
you know, I'm just wondering for you if you can identify a moment where there was that pivot where it went from, you
20:37
know, you're doing the pain meds because the doctors say so and then you have this other moment
20:43
like for you do you know or did it kind of just happen all in one? Was it gradual? Like do you have an idea?
20:48
I don't remember like the what's napping and be something so significant in regards to that. I think it was just the
20:55
accumulation again in that short period of time of going through what I did and then not acting what I had done
21:02
correctly for a long time in the other recovery aspect of it and and and those tools
21:09
I was alone. I felt alone even though I had that and then not the strength or the courage
21:16
to pick up the phone as compared to a drink or something to numb that cuz it
21:21
was like I just gone through all this. I'd done all this career, this therapy. I'd been recovery for a long time. I had
21:29
learned so much from you and the different things out there. I think it just was too much. It just is a
21:35
combination of too many life changes at once that just brought me to the knees
21:40
and things. Yes. The things I'd done right for so long, I just didn't have the strength anymore
21:46
to do it. And then the fortitude to go, I need help again, right? Like I'm in Did you
21:53
feel like you had done too much work and that you shouldn't be in that place? Like was there any part of you that
21:59
thought, I've been sober for so long, I I shouldn't be here. I shouldn't need help. Was there anything that happened
22:06
there? Because some people do say that and I'm like I I would think because you kind of build a little bit of some confidence
22:11
like you that's where you have to be careful with that pride and ego that can can play a role
22:17
in in in your life. So I I look back and say I think there was definitely some of that that that took place in regards to
22:24
that. you know, there's never enough, you know, in recovery, it's, you know, you're only an hour, you know, a day
22:30
away from, you know, like that's just it's day at a time. And so, you build up time and you think you're okay and then, you know, your legs get
22:37
chopped off and there's there's three components of healing that are so necessary, body,
22:43
mind, and spirit. For you, what piece was missing that maybe was part of your
22:49
falling down or your relapse time for you? I was, you know, I was talking to my wife the other day and I even early
22:55
on in my career, I was very dedicated and wanted to be first in and it was the fire department first and then it was
23:00
almost family and then faith, you know, and I don't want to get on the soap opera of that stuff and I'm, you
23:06
know, spiritual more than religious. But, but for me, like I look back at the
23:11
relapses and the things where the faith was a big component that I would leave out. like I could get three of the, you
23:17
know, two of the three together, but I could never put all of them together. And so this last journey was where was my faith in regards to that? Like where
23:24
I was, where was where was I in contact with the higher power that I believe like the foundation of you is over here
23:30
and I'd let that slide and then was doing more my will and kind of running on that and not reaching out to that
23:38
aspect of my life that was very important to me and still isn't very important to me. Right. It I did I left it. I I that was for me
23:44
it was like I completely dropped it and had to find it again you know right I had to find it again
23:50
I lost that joy in life right I lost that joy and so you know this journey when I went back up to Prescuit um it
23:57
was I was able to kind of reconnect that and that's just such a big component and I had it sure
24:02
you know throughout but here I was you know I did I lost that big component of it
24:08
yeah so let's talk about your healing and recovery I mean I think healing is not linear we are always healing and
24:14
we're always recovering and we're always, you know, taking one step forward and sometimes we feel like we
24:20
fall back with with our skills and, you know, life kicking us in the butt and having to
24:25
go what, you know, where do I recalibrate from here? So for you, what is what what role has for example, you
24:32
know, your EMDR therapy played for you both before your relapse and during your
24:37
work and then even after in your you know next phase of recovery with your most recent experience.
24:43
I don't even know how to describe it. You know, you hear individuals talk about it works. It's amazing, but I
24:50
don't know how to describe it. And I've gotten educated and learned so much from you and different, you know, physicians
24:56
some of the components of it and how it works. But I still don't understand how it works, right? I just know
25:02
it's right for me and how valuable it is, right? You know, and then what the military did with it. And then even the advancements
25:07
you had as I stayed with you, the different things that you added to it and they changed to, you know,
25:13
Yeah. have that be a better component in regards to how we perform the bilateral stimulation
25:19
or some of the things that you would see. But what what tools do you feel are like the most authentic for you that
25:25
when you when you've got these things in order, you seem to be pretty stable and grounded? What what are the things that
25:31
work best for you? For for me, like you said, is that faith component of it that's very very important to me in regards to that?
25:38
Um to keep me kind of connected and grounded a little more. Um and then in
25:44
regards to family is obviously very important in regards to that dynamics. I had to shift some of that priorities
25:50
from work to the family portion of it like now this is who I am and where I need to be grandkids and and son and
25:57
daughter and stuff like that and and my mother and stuff like that. So it started to shift kind of that component not be so selfish in regards to that
26:04
and then there's recovery aspect of it where the 12 steps and stuff like that and then service work. So for you, I'm
26:09
hearing like family and community is important to have focused um yes
26:16
faith obviously is huge and that was the one that maybe fell by the wayside a little bit during your really hard times
26:22
and then you know focusing on your 12 steps which is also you know support and active behaviors as well as community.
26:29
Absolutely. you get both from that. And I think that so many people isolate when they feel like they're supposed to have
26:36
it all together. And fire culture really is very much we've got to have it all together and we're the ones that
26:41
everyone else rely on. And so, you know, can you share with us a little bit about how it's been for you with this having
26:48
to put everybody else first? How has that affected your mindset and your ability to ask for help?
26:55
What skewed it? You know, it skewed it from the very onset, right? And then that was the last thing
27:00
I wanted to do. Like I remember this last run and I had a like I I had sinkable episode in the
27:06
house and fell over and crashed down and passed out for a little bit. Wow. I'm like you're not calling 911. Like I'm the last, you know, we're the last
27:12
people that are going to dial 911. Wow. In regards to that, like there was, you know, my blood pressure was low and I
27:17
had that kind of episode. And so I was like, she would threaten me like you're I'm calling 911 if you don't
27:23
come around. And so I'm like, I'm not like I didn't want that to take place. like so so opposed to that that taking place
27:29
even though it was a medical issue and there should have been some sort of valuation but that being taught and not wanting to
27:37
show that vulnerability and and and dial that um in regards to a true medical issue was just different and then in
27:43
regards to um the other challenges and and struggles that were taking place
27:48
like I was like you said you're just you put it on the back burner. I'll get to
27:54
it. I'll get to it. get to the I'll get to the mental health. I'll get to the physical aspect of it, too. We're so
27:59
focused on the physical stuff because it's so demanding. We let the mind and and the heart and the soul kind of take
28:05
a backseat to what's taking place in regards to that and that can do more damage on top of, you know, the stuff
28:11
that's taking place physically with your injuries place. And so what what stigmas are you hoping to
28:17
address with your story about addiction and recovery that hopefully can maybe
28:22
save somebody who's listening from going the route that you went? Well, I always I always lead with hope,
28:29
you know, like those opportunities where you get where there's there's still hope. You know, there's so many of us
28:35
that are losing our lives to, you know, substance abuse or overdoses or suicide.
28:41
And if you're in that arena or you're feeling kind of on the edge in regards to any of those things that there don't
28:48
be afraid to ask for help. There's Arizona's done such a great job and they continue to do a great job with
28:54
organization and nonprofits and getting that word out and starting to teach that stuff early on
29:00
in recruit classes on hey there's a time and place to ask for help and seek for
29:05
for guidance and then if you do go down that road to of you know substance abuse or alcohol like let's let's catch it
29:12
early and then you know we don't want to continue to ruin careers and burn down families and and
29:18
have the damage that comes comes along with the statistics that they usually take place in in the first responder
29:24
industry, right? And and it it's just it's too tragic to have that
29:30
kind of career and then to have that the lifespan shorten already as we know the calls and the cancers and the
29:35
pressures and then for us not to have the mental capacity and physical capacity to reach for that help. Yeah, I love I love that you're
29:43
you wanted to share this and and um you know, we're going to do another episode on the recovery journey itself in the in
29:50
this second phase. So, I I want to hear way more about this and I know our viewers do too. So, I want to thank you
29:57
for your cander and your vulnerability and your courage and your um
30:03
authenticity and all of your willingness to be able to be, you know, to to help others in this way and and make some
30:10
meaning from this part of your journey. It's really beautiful and we're very we're all very lucky to get to be part
30:15
of it with you. So, thank you. And it's an honor and a privilege and it's my duty, I think, moving forward because of the grace
30:22
that you've shown me and the industry's shown me and the different avenues that are out there that I have to continue to
30:28
share that whatever that looks like in whatever arena is just it's just an honor to be able to have that
30:33
opportunity and do that. So, it's kind of that help driving factor to find a little person. We call it the meaning making of our
30:40
trauma recovery. There's a phase. So, I'm learn I still continue to learn. Yeah. Well, DJ, thank you so much for
30:46
for um doing this with me and for our viewers. And hopefully you guys found
30:52
this helpful and please, if you did, share this with someone that matters to
30:57
you who could benefit from it. Subscribe to our show. Um in the notes, we'll
31:02
leave some resources for you. And in our next episode with DJ, we're going to talk more specifically about recovery,
31:08
his current perspective, and some of the things that helped him a lot in the this most recent round of his recovery. So,
31:15
thank you so much for tuning in. And until we meet again, don't forget to lead with love. It'll never steer you
31:21
wrong.