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What to Expect from Couples Therapy
Sep 11, 2025
Welcome to Adaptable | Behavior Explained! In this episode, Kelly O'horo and Justine Bond dive into what to expect from couples therapy, breaking down the process, common challenges, and how therapy can help partners strengthen communication, rebuild trust, and create deeper connection. I'm Kelly O'Horo, Attachment based EMDR Therapist, EMDRIA Consultant, and Advanced Trainer. I'm a mom of 5, Nonna of 5, wife, and a healer. I have the honor of spending my workdays walking along side people while they brave their healing journeys. I try to live with the generous assumption that we're all doing the best we can with what we know. Therapists are teachers for the "life stuff" and "emotional vocabulary" that may not have been learned due to gaps in our care givers capabilities. In the last 15 years I've learned that people are freaking amazing, resilient, and inspiring. Most importantly, we are hardwired for connection and for healing! I hope to bring an authentic, compassionate, and unpolished approach while we explore a variety of topics such as parenting, marriage, relationships, dating, trauma, attachment, adoption, depression, addiction, anxiety, and love! There's a why for all behaviors and an explanation that makes perfect sense as emotion is at the root of it all. -- Links -- https://linktr.ee/kellyohorolpc https://youtu.be/rLnARKekvgo https://www.emdria.org/find-an-emdr-therapist/
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0:06
Hi everyone, I'm Kelly O'Horo and this
0:09
is Adaptable Behavior Explained. Hi
0:12
everybody. Thank you so much for tuning
0:14
in today. My name is Kelly O'Horo and I
0:16
am the host of Adaptable Behavior
0:18
Explained. I started this podcast
0:20
because I wanted to give uh good
0:22
information to people looking to explore
0:25
all sorts of things about what to expect
0:27
on why people act the way they act. What
0:30
are some of the reasons behind behaviors
0:31
and ways to improve on behaviors that
0:34
you would like to in your life? And so,
0:36
uh that's the purpose of my show. And
0:39
today we're going to talk about what you
0:41
could expect if you were to embark on
0:43
couples therapy. I think that a lot of
0:46
times people think that change will
0:49
happen in one or two sessions and are
0:51
sorely disappointed when it's quite uh
0:53
quite an investment in both time and
0:56
energy to work on a relationship. And
0:59
I'm really excited to have with me today
1:01
Justine Bond, a colleague and friend.
1:03
And she's a licensed marriage and family
1:06
therapist. She is a certified EMDR
1:08
therapist, an approved consultant, and
1:11
she's an EFT couples therapist and
1:13
mentor. So Justine, introduce yourself
1:16
and tell us why you wanted to do this
1:18
episode with me.
1:19
Yeah, I mean, thank you for the
1:22
introduction,
1:23
credentials and whatnot. But I think
1:25
it's important to talk about
1:26
expectations around couples therapy
1:28
because a lot of people just come in
1:30
with misconceptions and are genuinely
1:32
just curious about like how the process
1:35
works, kind of what they're signing up
1:37
for, how long it takes. And I think it's
1:40
important just to really lay the
1:41
groundwork of what they're signing up
1:42
for and
1:43
there. Sure. What's your experience uh
1:47
related to when people decide they're
1:50
going to embark on couples therapy?
1:53
Yeah. You know, it's hard. They taught
1:54
us in grad school during our couples
1:56
therapy class. Unfortunately, most
1:58
couples come as kind of like that last
2:01
check mark ditch effort, you know. Um
2:05
and that's hard. It's hard to come back
2:06
from that, you know, but but I think if
2:09
couples aren't coming in from that
2:10
place, they're coming in knowing, hey,
2:12
we have this issue and we want to
2:14
address it before it does get worse. And
2:16
those are the couples that often fare
2:18
the best with EFT couples therapy, you
2:21
know, and then we can almost work
2:22
through some of those patterns before
2:23
they get really cemented,
2:25
right,
2:25
almost in thick in their cycle,
2:27
right? And you know, you use some words
2:30
that are specific to EFT therapy. So
2:33
just in brief, why don't you tell us a
2:36
little bit about what EFT therapy is?
2:38
Yeah. So EFT, emotion focused therapy,
2:41
is a couple's therapy that's really
2:44
looking at the dance of attachment that
2:47
happens between partners. You know,
2:49
often we see a dynamic where one partner
2:52
wants to keep the relationship safe by
2:54
really pursuing and leaning in. And it
2:57
usually and I call myself a pursuer in
2:58
recovery and it's like, "Oh my gosh, I
3:01
really have all this anxiety and I want
3:02
to make sure we're good and pursue,
3:03
pursue, pursue."
3:04
And the other partner often says, "I
3:06
want to make sure the relationship stays
3:08
safe, so I'm not going to say anything
3:09
to make it worse, right?
3:10
I don't know what to even say and I'm
3:12
just going to pull way back, especially
3:14
as you come towards me, right?"
3:16
And you can kind of see how that pattern
3:17
just perpetuates itself. So EMT is
3:20
really about breaking down that that
3:21
pattern,
3:22
that cycle.
3:23
Yeah. So the negative interaction cycle
3:24
is technically what that called. I call
3:26
it the spin cycle, you know, where it's
3:28
just like we cannot get out of it. I
3:30
cannot see it. And that's what makes an
3:32
EFT therapist so great in the room
3:34
because you really are this third party
3:35
observer that's not in it with a couple
3:37
and you can see it from a different
3:39
lens, right?
3:40
And help the couple see it for what it
3:41
is, too.
3:42
Yeah. And it's it's grounded in the idea
3:44
that we all need safe, secure emotional
3:47
connections. And when those feel broken
3:49
or when they feel challenged, uh, we
3:52
react or we respond in ways that are
3:54
designed to be protective for us as
3:56
opposed to bring someone closer to us.
3:59
And that protective stance that happens
4:01
in our cycle
4:02
creates more damage than it does
4:04
connection.
4:04
Yeah.
4:05
And people don't understand it's the
4:06
cycle of their pursuer withdraw dance
4:10
that is causing the issues in
4:12
relationship. And that's the that's the
4:14
problem.
4:15
And it's rooted in our attachment style.
4:17
So what would you see is what would you
4:18
say is the pattern that you see with um
4:21
you know a pursuer or withdrawer in
4:23
their attachment style?
4:24
So the pursuer is often anxiously
4:27
attached and a withdrawer is often
4:29
avoidantly attached or sometimes
4:31
disorganizedly attached
4:33
you know and
4:35
I love what you said about like we're
4:37
trying to get the relationship on a
4:39
foundation of safety
4:40
essentially and that's my job to help
4:42
rebuild the foundation on whenever the
4:44
crack started.
4:45
Sure. you know, um, and different
4:48
attachment styles really influence those
4:50
cracks. Another thing I refer them to as
4:52
are raw spots, right, which are like
4:53
these bruises in the relationship. And
4:55
if we don't tend to them and nurture
4:57
them and and also just name them for
4:58
what they are,
5:00
it tends to make those cracks bigger in
5:02
the foundation and then our attachment
5:03
styles get kicked up more with our
5:05
avoidance or anxiety and we're never
5:07
really getting to heal what starts to
5:10
get broken,
5:11
right? It's not about blaming or fixing
5:13
each other. It's about understanding
5:15
that it's the cycle that gets us in our
5:18
it's the emotional dance that we end up
5:20
falling into and that's related to our
5:22
unfinished attachment injuries and our
5:25
relational injuries when we were younger
5:28
and we bring those injuries into our
5:30
primary relationship and it and we then
5:32
reenact
5:34
what we have not
5:35
you know we have not handled. So thank
5:38
you for that explanation. And I I try to
5:41
get couples that I work with to
5:42
recognize it's not you that's the
5:43
problem. It's not you that's the
5:45
problem. It's your
5:46
it's your negative inter interaction
5:48
cycle that's the problem. And we need to
5:50
be faster at addressing
5:52
and recognizing that we're in our dance.
5:54
And we need to slow it way down
5:56
so that we can recognize what's
5:58
happening in us and why am I reacting
6:00
the way that I'm reacting. And the
6:01
slowing down process is really what
6:03
therapy is always about is slowing down
6:05
and understanding what's now so that we
6:07
can respond as opposed to react. For
6:09
sure. And it's the perspective taking.
6:11
I really teach couples how to each own
6:14
their own perspective of their
6:15
experience
6:16
and not have the other partner feel like
6:19
it's either blaming or putting it on.
6:20
It's like, no, no, no. We're just
6:22
sharing experience. And if you can't
6:23
come into this space being open-minded
6:26
and curious
6:27
and have room,
6:29
Yes.
6:29
for not just your perspective.
6:31
Yes.
6:32
You know, and recognize that we'll
6:33
parallel process. You know, I've seen
6:35
that all the time. We'll talk about, you
6:36
know, kind of what to expect in the
6:38
first few sessions and how it unfolds.
6:40
But I'll see, you know, I'll see um, you
6:42
know, partner one, partner, you know,
6:44
partners together, partner one, partner
6:46
two, and partner one, partner two
6:48
separate will say like the exact same
6:50
thing.
6:51
And so they're parallel processing. They
6:53
both feel the same way. And so if we can
6:54
get them in the room and to let them
6:56
understand the perspective is we both
6:59
should we both have a perspective and
7:01
yours matters and yours matters. Yes.
7:03
They both matter equally.
7:04
Yes. So, let's talk about what to
7:06
expect. You know, at Infinite, we design
7:08
our EFT process, and that's emotion
7:11
focused couples therapy, which I think
7:13
is the gold standard for coup's work. I
7:15
love Gottman's work as well, but as far
7:17
as what to expect logistically from a
7:19
couple's therapy adventure.
7:21
Yeah. You know, the first session is the
7:24
intake session, and you're really trying
7:25
to understand the relationship. You're
7:27
assessing relationship patterns, their
7:29
history, why they're even coming into
7:31
therapy,
7:32
their struggles.
7:33
Yes. Their struggles, all of that. And
7:34
then after that I meet with each partner
7:36
individually.
7:38
And is that common in other places? Do
7:40
is it like the couple together and then
7:42
individual one and individual two? Do
7:44
you typically see that other places?
7:46
It's really a keynote feature of EFT
7:49
couples therapy. And that's really how
7:50
Sue Johnson, the founder of couples the
7:52
or EFT therapy, really designed it
7:55
because in those breakout sessions,
7:57
that's where you're really digging into
7:58
the attachment history of each person.
8:00
And you really want to give them
8:02
space and time to explore that. And
8:04
also, I call it a little bit of rapport
8:06
and trust building with me. Sure.
8:07
When they're not in the face of the
8:09
other partner, right?
8:10
You know,
8:10
and our partner triggers us more than
8:12
anybody else in our lives.
8:13
Yes.
8:14
Like always.
8:14
Yeah. Yeah. you know, and that makes
8:16
sense because it's usually rooted from
8:19
our earliest attachment figure, which is
8:20
our parent. And if we have,
8:22
you know, attachment injuries from
8:25
childhood, that's going to show up in
8:26
the relationship and sometimes even in
8:28
previous relationships. And so, I'm
8:29
assessing for that, too. If anything got
8:31
carried over,
8:32
but ultimately the theme I'm listening
8:34
to is what shattered safety,
8:36
right?
8:37
You know, and in turn, how does this not
8:39
allow you to be more vulnerable?
8:41
Sure.
8:41
And that's what creates disconnection in
8:44
relationships. And so after we do our
8:46
breakout sessions, then I continuously
8:48
meet with a couple. Usually it's every
8:50
other week, sometimes it's weekly. Um I
8:52
never recommend monthly to start with
8:54
couples.
8:54
That's not often.
8:56
Um and then we dive into our work
8:58
together. And in this stage one of EFT,
9:01
it's really trying to assess the
9:04
negative interaction cycle, right?
9:06
And be very familiar with the dance that
9:07
the couple gets stuck in.
9:09
Okay. And you're naming that for them so
9:11
they can start to learn that language as
9:13
well and to understand you know that
9:16
they can share their vulnerable
9:18
experiences from a place of an
9:19
attachment injury as opposed to you do
9:22
this and then I am mad at you or I am
9:24
hurt by you.
9:25
Yes.
9:25
You do this and it reminds me of when I
9:28
was unsafe
9:30
when
9:31
it feels the same now because it's
9:34
honestly it's just trauma. It's the way
9:36
we our bodies remember perspective or
9:39
perception of safety.
9:40
Yeah, that's exactly.
9:41
So, what comes next? So, as we're
9:44
working through the cycle together, what
9:47
I want couples to get familiar with is
9:48
it doesn't matter what the thing is we
9:51
talk about. It's how we talk about it,
9:53
you know, and that's what the cycle
9:55
tends to mimic and all the different
9:57
conflicts that couples have. And I try
9:59
to get them to recognize, too, you know,
10:01
conflict isn't what ends relationships
10:03
or marriage. It's actually healthy and
10:05
okay to have conflict because it means
10:06
you truly care.
10:07
Sure.
10:08
And cycles only happen if you truly
10:10
care,
10:10
you know, but
10:12
what tends to disrupt relationships is
10:15
disconnection. And so all of our work is
10:17
really about how do we reconnect with
10:19
each other and that can only happen if
10:21
we're addressing safety,
10:23
you know, and how do we address safety
10:24
and risking vulnerability in the
10:26
process?
10:27
Yes, we have to be vulnerable, right?
10:28
And that's really hard for couples.
10:29
That's the hardest part. And depending
10:31
on how many attachment injuries or raw
10:33
spots there are, those protective moves
10:36
are going to be a little bit bigger or
10:38
the wall they put up, the armor they put
10:39
up, whatever you want to call it, it's
10:41
going to be thicker
10:42
because they don't trust each other yet.
10:44
And so I'm helping rekindle trust in the
10:46
relationship essentially, too.
10:48
And that's also dependent on how mature
10:50
the relationship is. If if it's a new
10:52
couple, they haven't built all these
10:54
patterns and pathways of dysfunctional
10:57
behavior for as long, you know, all all
11:00
behavioral emotion ends up building ruts
11:02
or pathways in the brain. And when we
11:05
can get to a couple young or early in
11:08
their relationship before they have
11:10
really pervasive pathways of ruts that
11:12
are dysfunctional and not helpful or
11:14
useful in their relationship by way of
11:17
uh uh encouraging connection.
11:20
Yeah,
11:21
we can do a lot more work more quickly.
11:24
Yes. I think that it's harder when we've
11:25
got a couple that's 20, 25 years in and
11:27
they've got such thick pathways of
11:30
dysfunctional patterns where that cycle
11:32
is just what we do
11:34
and the negative interaction cycle is so
11:37
pervasive and fast and profound. It
11:39
takes more practice to learn another
11:41
path.
11:42
Yeah, for sure. You know, and as we're
11:44
working through this, eventually what we
11:46
get to is meaning making. Sure. And this
11:49
is where couples can take the old
11:50
experiences that they had, make new
11:53
meaning from it within their cycle or
11:54
their conflict, and then be able to move
11:56
forward together. You know, it's trying
11:58
to cut the cycle in half. And what's
12:00
underneath the cycle is
12:03
the true primary emotions that they're
12:05
so scared to talk about.
12:06
Can you talk about the metaphor of the
12:07
iceberg?
12:09
Yeah. You know, when you think about an
12:11
iceberg, what you see at the top or
12:12
above the water is a lot of things that
12:15
are anger based,
12:17
you know, and maybe that looks like some
12:19
criticism, some blame, um, some
12:21
defensiveness, some stonewalling, all of
12:24
that. But underneath the iceberg is
12:26
where all that vulnerable stuff is. And
12:28
that usually, honestly, in my work with
12:30
couples, it's fear,
12:31
you know, or sadness. Maybe it's shame.
12:34
Maybe it's a lot of these I am
12:36
statements. I'm not enough. I'll never
12:38
be enough. I can't get it right. You
12:40
know, all of that, that's the stuff
12:42
we're not fully accessing. And that's
12:43
what I help couples really see,
12:45
right?
12:45
You know, and by going there, there
12:47
tends to be this softness that happens
12:49
because it's like, oh, I didn't know
12:51
when I did that. It makes them feel like
12:53
they're not enough. That's
12:54
heartbreaking,
12:55
right? I don't want my person to feel
12:56
that way about this, especially by what
12:58
I'm I'm doing.
12:59
Yeah. Exactly. You know, so we switch
13:01
the script a bit on them and they're
13:03
able to better recognize like, oh wow,
13:05
it's so much more than just this blaming
13:08
comment.
13:08
Sure.
13:09
You know, and then it makes them not
13:10
want to do that anymore.
13:11
Right. Right.
13:12
It's motivates change in the behavior.
13:14
For sure. When we when we feel seen,
13:16
understood, and heard, that's
13:17
that's all we're really looking for in
13:19
relationships. In all relationships, not
13:21
just couples, but in all of our
13:22
relationships, we just want to be seen.
13:24
Yeah.
13:24
Yeah. So, what are some misconceptions
13:26
that are common when people are going to
13:28
go to couples therapy that you have
13:30
experienced?
13:31
So, you said at the beginning some
13:32
people think it'll take like two
13:33
sessions, you know, and typically for
13:36
EFT when we're working with a quote
13:37
unquote untraumatized couple, it's
13:39
usually
13:40
I like the quote. I've never met one.
13:42
Have you met one?
13:43
No. But I will say there are couples who
13:46
come in with with trauma,
13:48
but they're at a place in their
13:51
relationship where they've either done a
13:52
lot of work or working through it or
13:53
they've healed a lot. And I'll see those
13:56
couples for about 10 to 12 sessions,
13:58
you know. But for most of my couples,
14:00
you know, it's an ongoing adventure or
14:02
journey. And usually it starts out every
14:05
other week for like six months or
14:07
something like that. And then they do
14:09
these tuneup sessions. So we're meeting
14:10
for another year, another 6 months just
14:12
monthly to check in,
14:14
you know, and then they always ask me at
14:15
the end, can do we have to put you on
14:17
retainer like just in case like you've
14:19
got it like you know once you got the
14:21
cycle down and once you understand a lot
14:23
of it
14:24
the sessions really just look a lot like
14:26
review but not in a bad or lazy way in a
14:29
way that's like you guys you're doing
14:31
this. Yeah. Like the way you're talking
14:33
through it and that's really what I'm
14:34
looking for in sessions like how are you
14:36
repairing the conversations that happen?
14:38
And when they can do that, I really tell
14:40
them like, "This is hard, but you've
14:42
also got it. And I'll still be here if
14:43
you need me, you know, but you've really
14:46
been doing this your own way, right?
14:47
You've got it. You have the tools."
14:49
Yeah. Yeah.
14:50
So, uh I know that another misconception
14:52
is about um people thinking that a
14:55
therapist is taking sides or has bias or
14:57
preference towards another.
14:58
That is a good one.
14:59
One of the one of the you know members
15:01
of the couple. So, talk about that one.
15:03
Yeah. So, when a couple comes in, I
15:05
often tell them this. You know, part of
15:06
this process at times is going to feel
15:09
like I'm putting one of you in the hot
15:10
seat essentially.
15:12
It's not that I'm picking on you. It's
15:13
not that I'm taking sides. And it's not
15:15
that I think one of you is the bad guy.
15:17
It's about deepening the process.
15:19
You know, often if you come in here with
15:21
anger, I have to get underneath that,
15:23
right? you know, one so I can hear
15:25
what's truly going on for you, but also
15:26
so your partner can hear a softer, more
15:29
underlying approach,
15:31
you know, and that might take some
15:32
digging and staying with one of those
15:34
the partners in that way.
15:36
And often times the the partner that is
15:38
angrier gets more of our attention at
15:40
first.
15:41
They do.
15:41
Because if they're not softening, we
15:43
aren't going to get much done.
15:44
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
15:45
So sometimes I'll have people like, "It
15:47
feels like you've been working with him
15:48
for so many sessions straight." And I'm
15:51
like, I I have
15:52
and I'm sorry that feels unfair.
15:55
If we don't get that to soften and get
15:57
underneath that anger, we're not going
15:58
to we're not going to get in there to
16:00
the meat of it. And so, we have to
16:02
we have to address that first.
16:04
Yeah. Yeah. And often if one partner
16:05
for your safety.
16:06
Yeah. Right. And and if they're angry,
16:09
they're not in a place to be curious and
16:11
open. And just like I said, that's
16:12
really what makes the couple's therapy
16:14
process work the best is when you're
16:15
curious and open.
16:16
Right. And so, you know, kind of going
16:19
back to like that being another
16:21
misconception. No, my job really is I
16:23
often say the relationship is my client,
16:25
right?
16:26
You know, it Yeah. I'm I'm looking out
16:28
for both sides. I'm going to call things
16:29
if I see it because that's a big part of
16:31
the EFC process,
16:32
you know, and using myself in that way,
16:35
but it's again not that I'm picking
16:36
sides or trying to make one person feel
16:39
like they're the problem.
16:40
So, so yeah, I really try to talk a lot
16:43
about that upfront, right? you know, and
16:45
I still get push back of like, it feels
16:46
like you've you've been sitting with me
16:48
for a while in this. I'm like, I know.
16:50
Stay with me, though. You know, really
16:51
stay with me. And I try to embody a
16:53
pretty warm, nurturing approach as I do
16:55
that. So, I never also make it feel like
16:56
I'm putting you in the hot seat and I'm
16:59
just on you.
17:00
And I think that's important for an EFT
17:02
therapist, too, to like model that
17:04
energy. I think that another, you know,
17:06
expectation when people join couples
17:08
therapy or start couples therapy or a
17:11
fear can be that you're going to just
17:12
dredge up too much pain.
17:14
You know, it's going to be too painful.
17:16
I don't want to go there. I'm just going
17:17
to let well enough be or, you know, go
17:19
along and get along where we are because
17:21
it's not that bad.
17:22
Yeah.
17:23
And so, what what would you say to
17:25
someone who has that concern?
17:26
Yeah.
17:28
You know, sometimes it happens, but I
17:31
also tell couples this, like it's there
17:33
anyways. Yes. And so, yes, you do have a
17:36
choice, but this is just like individual
17:37
therapy. You know, people come in and
17:39
I'm like, "This is your choice." And
17:40
this work is so hard. It's a lot easier
17:42
to put the blinders on or not have to
17:44
look under the rug.
17:45
Yes. Yes. I I get it, you know, but also
17:48
you're here because you want you do want
17:50
this to be better. And sometimes it gets
17:51
a little bit worse to get better. And
17:53
that's just part of this process.
17:55
I tell people like the pain is in in the
17:57
underbelly and that's what's driving
17:59
these reactions. the pain from the
18:01
history from the whether it's the
18:02
history of before your relationship or
18:04
in the relationship is informing your
18:06
your reactivity and that reactivity is
18:08
preventing that connection.
18:10
And so if we don't address it, it's just
18:12
going to keep eating your face on its
18:13
terms.
18:14
Whereas if you address it on your terms,
18:16
meaning I'm going to go into this place,
18:18
I'm going to spend my hour, hour and a
18:20
half. I'm going to do it every so often.
18:21
Your brain actually starts to create
18:24
memory related to the location, the
18:26
time, the space, and so you have more
18:28
space
18:30
emotionally to respond more in line with
18:34
who you want to be responding as. Now,
18:36
when you give yourself permission to go
18:38
and address things in in the in the pain
18:41
places in a safe place with a third
18:44
party that can help you navigate that
18:46
without getting stuck or or drawing
18:49
attention to the reenactment
18:51
and bringing into play
18:54
in the moment opportunity to correct
18:57
those corrective experiences, which is
18:58
what we do, right? Is we go, hey, can we
19:00
try that again and do it this way? And
19:03
then we create additional memory for the
19:05
healing process. And then that's what
19:07
you're saying is after they have gotten
19:09
so far with those repairs and and the
19:12
practice in the reenactments and the
19:14
cycle in your office, they can then
19:16
manage and navigate the conflict, the
19:19
repair, the circling back more
19:21
effectively on their own, which is what
19:23
it's about. It's it's not about not
19:24
having conflict. It's about repairing
19:26
faster so we can be back in connection.
19:28
Yeah. And I think I love that you said
19:29
that because some people also say,
19:31
"Well, it seems like every time we come
19:33
here now we're in a fight again or
19:34
something's happening, you know, and I'm
19:36
like, well, here's the thing. It's it's
19:40
it's not the room. It's it's there. It's
19:41
in you guys." You know, this is just
19:42
giving you a space to bring it up
19:44
and you have just haven't been
19:45
addressing it until today.
19:47
You know, you've been leaving it over
19:48
here because you're busy doing life
19:50
and then here I'm like, "Hey,
19:52
where are your, you know, hot spots or
19:53
raw spots? What's really bugging you?"
19:55
That's exactly it. But I think one
19:57
partner always feels a bit snubbed, if
19:58
you will, because it's like, well, they
20:00
didn't bring this up with me. It's like,
20:01
well, I'm also helping you guys navigate
20:03
what it looks like to bring things up
20:04
with each other. So, we're going to
20:06
practice it in here until we can do it
20:07
out there, but it doesn't mean this room
20:10
is bringing the stuff up, right? You
20:11
know,
20:11
it's not I'm not doing this to you.
20:14
Therapy is not making these things here.
20:16
We're just highlighting what you were
20:17
not paying attention to.
20:19
And you're saying, I want to do that so
20:20
that it doesn't doesn't destroy our
20:22
relationship.
20:23
And so, it's it's it's important. Um, so
20:27
what does healing look like as people
20:28
work through their, you know, their
20:31
wounds and their relationships?
20:32
Yeah. So often they come in and there's
20:36
not much to check in with almost
20:37
anymore. You know, it's like, so tell me
20:39
about the last two weeks or last month
20:40
or whatnot, and they're telling me like,
20:43
"We've had a few things, but like
20:45
it wasn't as bad, you know, like the
20:48
conflict wasn't as long or severe or as
20:50
intense and escalated, you know?" And I
20:53
always ask, "Well, so there was
20:54
conflict. So tell me how you handled it.
20:56
You know, and when they can walk me
20:58
through Yes. When they can walk me
21:01
through exactly like what the trigger
21:02
was, the emotions they felt, what was
21:05
underneath those emotions on a deeper
21:06
level, how they brought that up to each
21:09
other, that tells me you're in pretty
21:10
good shape, you know, and then the
21:12
meaning making part when they can say,
21:13
I'm getting it now that when I don't
21:15
take out the trash, it just makes her
21:17
feel like, you know, everything's on
21:19
her,
21:19
right?
21:20
You know, I and then I don't care about
21:21
her
21:21
and that I don't care about her, right?
21:23
And so I'm recognizing now,
21:25
you know, those things are important and
21:27
I'm trying to like really do my part in
21:28
that way and she can also reflect and
21:30
I've just appreciated that so much, you
21:32
know, because I also see how much you do
21:34
care about me and it makes the conflict
21:37
not feel as big because these other
21:39
things around
21:40
are like supporting it almost, you know,
21:41
and they're feeling more connected. It's
21:43
creating those new emotional experiences
21:45
that can now create pathways of
21:48
I can trust that my partner will help me
21:49
to feel safe when
21:51
I can bring things to their attention
21:52
and they're going to respond in a caring
21:54
way as opposed to a critical or
21:56
judgmental or defensive way
21:58
and they can hear that I have an
22:00
emotional perspective and even if
22:02
they're not meaning for me to feel that
22:04
way they are hearing the underlying
22:06
message
22:07
and wanting to meet you know each other
22:10
in that space. And when couples feel
22:11
more attuned and connected to each
22:13
other, conflict just doesn't feel like
22:15
that big of a deal. There's other things
22:16
that they know they have in their
22:18
relationship and
22:19
like what's the point to get into this
22:20
so much? It's the disconnected ones that
22:22
just like fester and the little things
22:25
feel so big when they're just not. I I I
22:27
always show that Burning Man picture of
22:29
the children in the cages of humans and
22:32
it's the adults are sitting with their
22:34
back to one another and the the little
22:36
kids on the inside are inside like
22:38
really just trying to meet each other
22:40
and I and I just think that picture is
22:43
such a beautiful
22:45
illustration of what's happening on all
22:46
of us when we're in disconnection and
22:48
we're in conflict and we're not able to,
22:51
you know, be in connection with one
22:54
another. And sometimes, you know, when
22:56
we don't know what to say or we don't
22:58
know how to handle it, sometimes just a
22:59
hug or a long embrace can really do so
23:02
much to bring back a little safety and
23:04
connection in the relationship.
23:06
Yeah,
23:06
for sure.
23:07
Yeah. I think I do that a lot in this
23:09
work, too, is I get so picky with needs.
23:12
You know, a lot of people don't know
23:13
what they need or they'll say, "I need
23:14
you to be kind." And I exactly I get so
23:18
specific and I think that's a really
23:19
helpful part within the couple's work
23:21
too for people because they hear of like
23:23
oh I didn't know that's what kindness
23:24
meant to you and I can totally do that.
23:27
So it's a twofer. You're helping
23:28
yourself out to recognize what you need
23:29
but now your partner hears it so
23:31
explicitly.
23:33
We need color by number. What matters to
23:35
me does not matter to you and vice
23:36
versa. And I think that that's
23:39
that's the other thing that I hear in
23:40
couples a lot. They should know. I
23:42
shouldn't have to tell them. And I'm
23:44
like, "Oh, you certainly do." Cuz you
23:46
were an adult and maybe as a child, you
23:48
should not have had to tell, you know,
23:50
parent your mother or your father you
23:52
needed more hugs or you needed them to,
23:54
you know, put their phones down and pay
23:56
attention to you. But now as an adult,
23:58
it you must you must say, "Hey, can you
24:00
put your phone down? I'm feeling really
24:01
disconnected with you from you." And I
24:03
would I would like more attuned
24:05
connection. Like it is our job to say
24:07
that's what we need. And I think people
24:08
struggle with that. Well, I think
24:10
because they think they don't care about
24:11
me if I have to ask, you know, and it's
24:13
like,
24:13
no, not at all. We just don't know.
24:16
But the bigger thing is they don't want
24:17
to risk the rejection.
24:18
Yeah.
24:18
What if I say it and they don't care?
24:20
I know.
24:20
What if I bring it up and they don't put
24:22
their phone down?
24:23
Yeah.
24:23
Or they don't come home earlier from
24:25
work or they don't,
24:27
you know, clean up the dishes after we
24:28
eat even though they've agreed to it.
24:30
What if they don't? And I think that's
24:32
where um the risk of the vulnerability
24:36
of repeating themselves or whatever is
24:38
scary or hard.
24:39
But I I really do think that we are
24:42
doing the very best we can with what we
24:43
know and we're all navigating our own
24:46
world of pain and stress and you know
24:49
overwhelm and when our partners make
24:52
assumptions that we're not
24:55
Yeah.
24:55
that's where we run into problems.
24:57
Yeah. Absolutely. So, we do need to know
24:59
what we need, ask for what we need, and
25:00
then be brave enough to to like, you
25:02
know, take that risk.
25:04
Yeah.
25:04
And bring it up. So,
25:06
I'm so glad that we're talking about
25:08
this. I think that so many people, you
25:11
know, expect change to be so much
25:13
faster.
25:14
And I and I also think I make a lot more
25:16
progress with my couples who are also
25:18
doing individual work.
25:19
Yes.
25:20
Because, you know, you're in this
25:21
relationship and it highlights the raw
25:24
spots in your history that you haven't
25:25
addressed. But if you can go
25:27
individually, work on those those
25:29
reactions with some EMDR therapy so that
25:32
when you're back in your relationship,
25:33
it doesn't get you so quickly. You have
25:35
a little bit more time to to, you know,
25:37
attune to and address the situation in
25:40
real time with your partner. It goes so
25:42
much more smoothly.
25:42
Yeah, I love that. No, couples work,
25:44
it's it truly is like a beautiful
25:46
experience, though, because I tell
25:47
couples, too, you're going to learn so
25:49
much about yourself in this process.
25:51
Sure. You know, and the grass isn't
25:53
always greener on the other side. And
25:54
it's always greener where you water it.
25:56
Yeah. And you you will take what you're
25:58
not addressing or working on in this
26:00
relationship into the next one. You just
26:02
will.
26:02
You just will,
26:03
you know, and so that's
26:04
everywhere you go.
26:05
Yeah.
26:05
There you are.
26:07
So that's why it's great to still look
26:09
at this stuff anyways, you know, um
26:12
and just kind of watch where the journey
26:13
takes you. Right.
26:14
For sure.
26:14
Yeah. Even if sometimes it's, hey, a
26:17
couple's work was interesting and it
26:18
highlighted a few things and now I'm
26:19
really going to pursue individual
26:21
because I really need that. That's still
26:22
a win for me.
26:23
There was so much there.
26:24
Yeah, that's still a big win for me as a
26:26
I love that.
26:28
Well, thank you so much for clearing up
26:30
anything that maybe couples who have not
26:32
yet been to couples therapy um want to
26:34
understand better. And you know, we're
26:36
we're we're saying that if you're a
26:37
non-traumatized couple, you can get a a
26:40
lot of shifting in six to 12 sessions of
26:42
EFT therapy. Um, and if you're a
26:44
traumatized couple, we're looking at at
26:46
least 20 sessions. So, so please give
26:49
yourself and your your relationship and
26:51
your therapist some grace and some
26:53
patience to see the process unfold the
26:56
way that it is meant to. And ultimately,
26:58
you know, if you hang in there, you get
27:00
to see the fruits of your label labor.
27:02
And if you if you jump ship, well, then
27:04
things will likely continue on the
27:06
trajectory they were before you started.
27:08
And you have to face that reality as
27:10
well. I mean, we have to work very hard
27:12
in good relationships because we we
27:14
don't know how to do this when we
27:16
haven't learned and our parents are
27:18
primary teachers on relationships. They
27:21
did the best they could, too. But
27:22
oftentimes it wasn't enough to really
27:24
enter with awesome blueprints into a
27:27
relationship that says, "I know how to I
27:28
know how to do this and I can use
27:30
appropriate and and um powerful language
27:33
that's connecting in nature." Like,
27:34
we're just not good at that naturally.
27:36
We have amydalas and nervous systems and
27:39
histories and we have our trauma goggles
27:41
that inform the way we see things. And
27:42
unless we have an accountability partner
27:44
and a therapist, we're likely going to
27:46
continue doing and acting and being the
27:49
way that we've always been because we
27:51
don't we don't see it or we change it.
27:53
Yeah. Absolutely.
27:54
So, thank you so much, Justine, for
27:56
being on today and for for talking about
27:59
this. And for those of you who are
28:01
embarking on the couples uh therapy
28:03
journey, please stick with it. It will
28:05
take you some time. If you don't have
28:07
someone who is skilled or trained in EFT
28:10
therapy, I recommend exploring that if
28:12
you're not making the progress that you
28:13
want to make. It's very important to
28:15
have someone who's skilled in this area
28:18
to make progress the way you want. But
28:20
it is brave and so go boldly into your
28:22
journey towards uh connection and repair
28:25
because it will serve you. I assure you
28:27
if you stick with it, I very much
28:29
appreciate my couple's therapist and uh
28:32
know that without her, I don't know that
28:34
my husband and I would have made it. And
28:36
so, we're 26 years now, stronger than we
28:38
ever could have imagined being. And it
28:40
has not been without hard-fought effort
28:43
and energy toward our continued repair
28:46
and connection and and better
28:47
understanding one another. So, um thank
28:50
you so much for tuning in today. If you
28:52
found this beneficial and or liked the
28:54
episode, please let us know that by
28:56
thumbs up and uh subscribe and please
28:59
share this or comment with us. And uh I
29:02
wish you the very best in your couple's
29:03
therapy journey. And until we meet
29:05
again, don't forget to lead with love.
29:07
It'll never steer you wrong.
29:10
[Music]
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