0:00
The visual that I had as you were
0:01
speaking is that addiction or the labels
0:07
uh if if I have somebody that's on a
0:09
bicycle and they just fall over all the
0:12
time and we look at them and we say
0:15
you know, that's that's the problem.
0:17
That's the behavior, right? You're
0:18
you're falling down. And we don't look
0:22
what's what's wrong with the bike, the
0:25
machine, right? We just assume
0:26
everybody's got a bike and it's but a
0:28
bike if it's not moving it falls over.
0:31
It's just physics. Maybe maybe that
0:33
person needs a third wheel. Maybe their
0:36
chain's broken. Maybe somebody took
0:37
their pedals, right? It's like how do we
0:39
look at instead of just looking at the
0:42
>> metaphor, maybe they're missing a foot.
0:44
>> Maybe they're missing a foot, right? So,
0:46
if if we look at that I I know it's a
0:48
silly analogy, but if we look at that
0:50
and we move beyond why is that person
0:52
falling over on their bike all the time
0:55
and we go back to what fundamentally was
0:58
was missing. So, what I like about
1:00
Gabor's perspective is twofold. That
1:04
addiction isn't due to a
1:07
corrupted pleasure-seeking behavior,
1:10
but that it's a manifestation of
1:15
>> That's where it starts.
1:15
>> Mhm. So, if we look at if we look at,
1:17
you know, what what pain are we trying
1:22
I think the question as opposed to
1:24
saying what's wrong with the behavior is
1:26
what's right about the behavior.
1:28
>> Yeah. And when you think about how
1:31
trauma shows up in people's lives,
1:33
especially in our early attachment
1:36
let's talk about how those previously
1:40
experienced life events show up in our
1:43
addiction patterns or in our addiction
1:45
behaviors. What comes up for you?
1:48
>> Well, I think first off, I just look at
1:51
the environment that we're in.
1:54
You know, oftentimes so you know, I'm a
1:56
child of the '70s. So, you know, we were
1:58
told this is your brain on drugs and if
2:00
you take a drug, you know, you're going
2:02
to become a drug addict. Your body is
2:05
>> predisposed to become addictive.
2:08
>> If you follow the AA model, right?
2:10
They'll say some of us are just born
2:11
defective, which I don't subscribe to
2:13
either. But you know, if you take the
2:15
wrong drug, uh if you're out partying
2:17
and you take the wrong drug, you're just
2:19
going to become hooked and you're going
2:20
to become an addict. And so
2:22
>> whole gateway drug with marijuana came
2:24
>> Yeah, and I think a lot of people have
2:26
looked at that model and when they see
2:28
somebody struggling with the
2:30
consequences of addiction or addictive
2:32
behavior, whether that's a chemical
2:33
dependency or a process dependency,
2:36
that we look at them and say, "Well, why
2:38
don't you just stop doing that thing?"
2:42
"You did this to yourself because you
2:43
sought pleasure-seeking in the first
2:46
place, right?" So it's kind of the the
2:47
cricket in the in the ants.
2:49
>> When in fact, they're typically seeking
2:51
relief from how they already feel.
2:53
>> Right. And so that's where
2:57
>> Right. So that's where I go back to kind
2:58
of like the rat city experiments, right?
3:01
So just to qualify that for everyone,
3:04
you know, when when we looked at
3:06
chemical dependency and addiction
3:08
behavior, if we tested in rats, you
3:10
could put a rat in a cage and you could
3:12
give them water and food and sustenance
3:14
or you could give them a bottle full of
3:16
a stimulant and they will take that
3:18
stimulant until they die. And so that
3:20
really correlates with our
3:23
human perspective of "Oh, if you take
3:25
these drugs, you'll become chemically
3:27
hooked and you will do that until you
3:31
But somebody was was smart enough to
3:33
say, "Well, let me change the
