0:00
These are eye-watering sums
0:02
This level of spending on British politics is utterly unprecedented. And we would argue, in a healthy democracy, unacceptable
0:14
We can't have billionaires treating political parties like they were football clubs
0:19
This is our democracy at stake here. And the incredible thing, as you indicated, is that this is unlimited
0:26
This might not be the end of the story. This could carry on happening. Who knows which other billionaires will decide that they want in on the action or indeed want to counteract the effect of these donations
0:37
And it is an arms race. And we've seen across the Atlantic what happened in America when money was unlimited in politics
0:46
You know, we had the world's richest man at the right hand of his favoured candidate to be president, then appointed to offices whereby he started literally tearing up the government, closing down the world's largest humanitarian programmes
1:05
It could happen here. And frankly, at the rate things have started to change, there is no time left to act
1:13
Duncan, I think people might be surprised to find out that there is no limit to the amount that any individual or organisation can donate
1:20
I think they might have thought in good old Britain, where we seem to favour the gentleman amateur
1:25
you know, there'd be a kind of nice, healthy limit on how much you could donate
1:29
Because obviously people would think, what about favour? What about currying favour
1:33
What about buying influence and, you know, that kind of thing? There must surely be a limit on it
1:37
And to my amazement, and probably to people listening's amazement, there is no limit at all
1:41
So what is the current state of play with what, for example, a huge donor might ask in return
1:48
We know that these two gentlemen have said they don't want anything at all. They just want to level the playing field
1:52
But imagine you did want something. Imagine you wanted fracking, for example
1:55
You're a big fracking fan and stood to make a great deal of money for it. And you could donate, you know, 36 mil to a party
2:03
Would you openly make the donation conditional? Would there be lots of talking behind the scenes
2:08
Or how would it all go? Well people would be pretty ill to leave their tracks if they were in the business of buying policies or buying any other favours from an incoming government
2:21
But that doesn't mean that there aren't expectations, and it doesn't mean either that we couldn't find ourselves in a situation where politicians anticipate what their donors might like
2:33
If we have a situation where politicians owe their place in power and their futures to just one or two billionaires, that's going to make a difference to their calculus and the way they think
2:47
And I'm not just imagining this, Vanessa. Only at the end of last year, we had a former European parliamentarian representing a constituency in Wales who went to jail
3:01
He's in jail now serving a 10-year sentence because he pled guilty to accepting bribes
3:07
From the Chinese. To deliver Kremlin speaking points in a parliament. Yeah, yeah
3:13
And so, therefore, what do we make of what might happen next
3:18
Obviously, Nigel Farage must be gleeful today. And, you know, they're like the king in his counting house
3:23
counting out his money. But do we anticipate that moves will be made
3:27
to try to curtail this kind of thing? Well, there have been some attempts even before these donations were announced
3:36
The government after that bribery case commissioned a former civil servant, Philip Rycroft, to look at foreign influence in British politics
3:44
He proposed and the government accepted a ban on overseas nationals, British nationals overseas donating to British politics
3:54
In fact, both of these billionaires were overseas at the time and have talked about coming back here so that they can get around those controls
4:05
The government does seem to be making it ever so complicated. Simple rules that apply equally to everyone
4:17
are the most easily enforced and the best approach, I would argue
4:23
to dealing with these kinds of challenges We called for a cap annually on the donations that any private individual or company can put into British politics And there were amendments that MPs were discussing when they came back just at the beginning of this month to Parliament
4:42
And the government has now acknowledged that there is a problem for democracy, even with UK-based donors
4:51
and they are looking at what they should do about that. but they have been procrastinating for a very long time
4:58
and they may have left it too late. Duncan, thank you very much indeed. Good to talk to you
5:02
Joining me in the studio live is our reporter, LBC's reporter Mike Cowan
5:06
who's already had a word with Richard Tice today. Gosh, Richard Tice must have been in a great mood
5:10
Yeah, well, I mean, I spoke to him this morning. That was before the announcement of the second 32 million
5:15
But he was buoyant. I mean, for them, this is huge news
5:19
because it not only puts them on a par with the other parties, I mean, also, this number, £72 million, is more than all political donations to all parties in 2025
5:31
It is an enormous amount of money and gives them an enormous amount of power in what they can do on the ground
5:38
And that's what Richard Heiser was really excited about. Give me some idea about what they say they might do with it
5:43
So they're saying, for example, they can have lots and lots of local campaign teams in place
5:49
and particularly in seats that they want to heavily target. they can build a proper infrastructure
5:54
And I think that's where many think reform have fallen down at times
5:58
because with the traditional parties, with Labour, the Conservatives, the Lib Dems, you've got this huge infrastructure nationwide
6:04
You've got these very established local parties. You know, even to really grassroots stuff like going out canvassing with leaflets
6:11
you've got these huge teams of people already established. Reform in a lot of seats and a lot of targets just don't have that
6:18
But having money like this means that they can build that infrastructure and build it quickly
6:24
Well, that's the hope of the party. All right. Is there a plan afoot to stop and thwart this whole scenario anyway
6:31
And if there is, how far has it got? I don't think there's a plan to stop and thwart it that I've heard of
6:36
I mean there is some complicated things to do with legislation and crucially to do with where these two donors are based One is based in Hong Kong One is based in we believe Thailand
6:52
He even talked Thai citizenship in 2011. We don't know if Christopher Harbourn, who you may remember as well
7:00
was the man responsible for giving Nigel Farage a £5 million gift, which is currently the subject of the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner
7:07
an investigation. He needs any new friends. I'm available. to have a nice delightful dinner with him at any time
7:13
I'm sure he'd be delighted. Thai food is his favourite. I like it too. I'm sure we've got so much in common
7:17
You know, it'd be lovely. I think he sounds like such a generous fellow, doesn't he? Well, I think he'd enjoy it
7:22
And with those two million pounds, I think he could probably shout your dinner, Vanessa. I think so too
7:26
But there are moves of it to do something about donations from outside the country
7:30
when you don't live here. Right. So this is a bill that has been voted for by MPs
7:36
but crucially hasn't gone into law yet. it's still being scrutinised by the Lords and hasn't passed yet
7:42
Now, what the Electoral Commission are saying is that that bill will be
7:48
they think, retrospectively applied to any donations past March this year. Now, what that could mean is that that £100,000 donation cap
8:00
which applies to or will apply when this law comes in, to British citizens living overseas but who want to donate to UK political parties
8:08
that is a £100,000 cap annually. Now, if that were applied here
8:13
because you've got obviously the first man today, Ben D'Lo, who made that donation of £32 million
8:18
he still lives in Hong Kong, but says he will relocate to the UK
8:22
in order to pursue these donations. But there is... Confusion is the wrong word, Vanessa
8:29
What's the right word? I'm confused. I think it's a good word. We are awaiting confirmation from the Electoral Commission
8:34
which we've asked for here at LBC this afternoon. I know, I heard you asking for it. I was upstairs in the news desk while you were asking
8:40
So we have asked them for clarification on what that could mean in this situation. Because if you're saying the law is going to be applied retrospectively
8:46
which means that any donation from someone living abroad, who is a British citizen but lives abroad
8:52
that would be capped at £100,000. And obviously, these two donations are significantly more than £100,000
