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GB News presenter Ben Leo clashed with ex-Labour spokesman Matthewson in a heated debate over transgender rights and access to single-sex spaces.The fiery exchange centred on whether trans women are biological men, with Leo asserting scientific facts while Matthewson challenged what he called a misunderstanding of transgender issues.READ THE FULL STORY
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0:00
Look, I was sitting with my friend who was trans when this ruling was announced at the Supreme Court
0:06
And to sit opposite somebody who is going to live through the effects of this
0:10
and somebody who is experiencing all the emotion, all the difficulty, all the fear that comes with it
0:16
was truly transformative for me. It's an absolutely terrifying moment for so many people in our country
0:22
And it really, really disappoints me, the narrative that we're seeing in the media
0:27
that we're seeing perpetrated by the government as well as it follows on from the Supreme Court ruling
0:31
that just seems to lack. And we talk about it being Easter Sunday right now
0:36
And I want to ask people who come out with these positions
0:40
about trans people and the comments that they've freely made, how they can do so in the conscious of themselves being Christians
0:47
and believe what Jesus Christ would say about these people. I'm not a Christian. I'm an atheist, right
0:51
I believe Jesus Christ was a real person. And I just don't believe his divinity
0:56
However, when you look at the words of that man written down, you know, from 2000 years ago, how can you not think that that man would be an advocate for everybody, the minorities in our society
1:08
And that's exactly what we're seeing here. The minorities in our society attacked, demonized and villainized
1:14
Yeah I mean any abuse towards trans people the comments you reference of course it goes without saying is wrong But what we dealing here with is scientific facts and the facts that women don want biological men in their spaces So whilst I appreciate at the one time trans people may be going through some personal troubles and they confused
1:30
whatever, I'll never understand. They're not confused, Ben. I have to challenge that narrative
1:35
They're not confused. There is only one confusion here, and that is people who are advocating for a situation
1:40
they do not understand they are creating. Now, where do you want to put trans men
1:45
Where do you want trans men to go to the bathroom? Well, I just..
1:49
It's a bit different trans men because they are women. So the problem is, as I explained to somebody..
1:55
They're not women. They're trans men. They're not, they're women. Most of them have got better facial hair than you or I will ever have then
2:02
Well, that they probably have because they take testosterone and I don't
2:06
I'll have to produce mine naturally. But they are... I'm sorry, as the court ruled, James
2:10
they are... they're men. Sorry, they're women. The pressure, the pressure that has been put on in a campaign
2:17
We have never seen anything like it. It has been extensive. So what about the rights of women, James
2:21
We hear about how trans people want to use, trans women want to use women's toilets
2:26
What about the women who are saying, hang on a minute, I feel scared here, I feel threatened by a six-foot biological man
2:31
being in the toilet with me. What about them? Six-foot, it's nothing to do with people's height, Ben
2:35
Yes, it is. It is, actually, James. It is. It's all about height. It's about power
2:39
It about threatening nature There are cis women There are cis biological women who are six So So that argument makes absolutely no sense On the whole James You playing silly
2:51
On the whole, men... Let's agree on this point first before we continue. Men, on the whole, are more physical, powerful beings than women
3:00
They are generally taller, they are faster, they're quicker, much bigger lung capacity, bigger bone density
3:05
On the whole, they can manhandle women. That's what women are scared about. You agree with that
3:09
Yeah, let's get down to what we're talking about here. Do you agree with that? That's the problem men pose
3:14
Men are the problem. Well, yeah. Are you a feminist, Ben? Trans women are men
3:19
Are you a feminist, Ben? No, I'm not. Why? Why are you making an argument for feminism
3:26
We're going down a silly rabbit hole. Because, I mean, okay, don't answer my other point then
3:31
To answer your feminism point is because the term feminist has been hijacked by very extreme people
3:38
and I believe in equal rights for women, but that has made me a feminist. That makes you a feminist, then
3:43
That makes you a feminist. You should be proud to say it. No, it doesn't. Not in today's definition
3:47
Not in today's definition. Anyway, the point is that I'm a feminist. I believe in protecting women
3:52
Now, the danger to women is men. It's not trans women. Trans women are not men
3:57
Trans women are men, sorry. Trans women are women and they are not men
4:00
and statistically they are not attacking women anywhere near the capacity that people that you would give the credence to in the media It absolutely diabolical It a campaign that is based on hate and division
4:15
Why can we not just let people live the lives they need to live? I agree
4:20
And because this ruling brings, you say about the trans men situation, you don't have an answer for it
4:25
If you want six foot three bearded men, handsome bearded men in women's bathrooms
4:30
that's what you've done. There are statistics which Dawn Neeson just read out. I don't have them to hand
4:34
But the rate of sexual offenders in prisons, for example, among trans inmates is much higher than what you would call
4:42
I don't agree with the term, cis. That's because the rate of prisoners is higher in assaults generally anyway
4:47
because people who get put in prison... Well, there's always an excuse, isn't there, for the stats
4:51
You just ask for stats and I've briefly skirted around. I've got stats that go in the opposite direction
4:57
but we can do that all day long. My point is... On this Easter Sunday, James. Yeah, go on then, finish up
5:01
My point remains that about tolerance, about love and about respect. You've just spent 10 minutes there
5:07
Be tolerance towards women then, James. You believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ and the love of the world and the passion of it
5:14
Yet then we start talking about trans people and you're going, trans women are men. Well, they are
5:18
You're not living up to your own principles. It's not hateful to say that. James, it's not hateful to say that. The Supreme Court just ruled it
5:24
Anyway, this is descending into... You're not living up to your own principles then. Yeah, OK, James. Happy Easter to you, my friend
5:29
Hope you have a good bank holiday. Enjoy
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