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Gender is a 'social construct' and 'cannot be changed', Dr Renee Hoenderkamp claims
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Apr 22, 2025
GB News senior political commentator Nigel Nelson sparked a fiery trans row with Dr Renee Hoenderkamp after Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer broke his silence on the Supreme Court's ruling on women.Following protests from the transgender community and its supporters over the weekend, the Labour leader welcomed the Supreme Court's ruling that defines a woman as "an adult female", marking a shift from his previous stance on transgender issues.FULL STORY HERE.
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0:00
You might as well be joined by Dr Annie Hunter-Kamp and Nigel Nelson in the studio
0:03
They've been squabbling off air, so they've carried on squabbling on air
0:08
Finally, your leader. He speaks. He has a view. And he's spoken on the Supreme Court ruling, Nigel
0:17
I have not heard him. This is this morning, obviously. And I have not heard him, so... Well, he says a woman is a woman
0:22
So the woman is an adult female. A woman is an adult female. And unacvictively supported the ruling
0:27
Right. Well, the next stage for all this is going to be
0:31
how you sort out the Gender Recognition Act... You scrap it. ..where we have a situation where..
0:37
Now, this came from 2004, before the Equalities Act. Yes, that's right
0:42
But there's still the situation where a man can be a woman officially
0:47
on the basis they can change their birth certificate and their passport
0:52
So the gender recognition certificate, which costs £5, is pretty much redundant now
0:57
Well, no, it's not redundant. I mean, not many people actually use it. Well, I think there's only 10,000 anyway
1:03
Yeah, that's right. That is 8,000 since it actually started. Yeah, nothing
1:08
But the point about that is that you have to prove or you have to have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria
1:16
You have to live in your acquired gender for two years. How do you live as another sex for two years
1:22
You just wear the other clothes, that's it. Is that easy? Just wear different clothes? Well, I mean, it depends how you want to live in that..
1:27
No, no, it's a genuine question. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how... But, Nigel, let's have a point. We now have this situation where you can change your sex
1:35
on your birth certificate if you follow this process, but it doesn't mean anything in law
1:40
and life because you now we assume will be excluded from single birth Right And also it dangerous And I explained this to Nigel this morning that if I a doctor and you Miriam which I am I forgot that for a moment and you come to me
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you are actually a man, but you look like a woman, and your medical records have been changed to tell me that you're a man
2:00
and you come in, or the other way around, whatever it is. Say you come in, you're a man, but you were a woman
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and you've got tummy ache, and I do all of the investigations I need to do, but the one thing I don't investigate is ovarian cancer
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because you're a man, you don't have ovaries. I miss your cancer early. And you then represent later with terminal ovarian cancer
2:17
Whose fault is it? Is it mine? Is it yours? This is a nonsense
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We need to scrap the Gender Recognition Act and rescind all of the certificates
2:26
I don't mind how anybody wants to live. If they want to live looking like a woman
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with a dress on and high heels and whatever it is they feel makes a woman, that's fine
2:35
But what they can't do or shouldn't be able to do is change data
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because data is how we plan societies. We won't be able to plan for our prisons
2:44
for our health services, for our schools, anything else. I get that
2:48
I'm just being devil's advocate because I'm with you 100%, but Nigel's point, what do we do about the person
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who has fully transitioned from male to female... Which are very few
2:57
Which are very few, but they exist. Where do they... There's a public loo, male and female
3:04
Where do they go? Well, as I've always said, as a woman... Yeah
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My job is not to find their solutions for them. My job is to protect women and women's spaces
3:15
So they're on their own, then? They have to find their own solutions. Now, be that maybe it's a third space..
3:19
The solution there is a unisex toilet. Or a disabled toilet if there is not a unisex
3:24
It's a third space. And there's lots of those now around anyway, let's be honest. Yes
3:29
And the point that's often missed in this is the reason for single toilets is not just because women like to go in there and do their make together It because sadly almost all sex offences are committed by men It still a tiny proportion of men obviously but in intimate spaces
3:43
But we don't know who they are. Exactly. And transitioning from male to female does not change the pattern of male sex offence
3:49
It doesn't. In fact, there are proportionally much more trans women, so men, in prison for sex offences than there are non-trans men
3:57
I wonder what that is. I think some of it is because they transition after the offence
4:01
to try and go to a female prison. But I think Miriam's right
4:04
The argument is tiny, tiny groups of people here. I know we are, but you know what
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If men are allowed to go in women's toilets, predatory men will do that on purpose. Isn't that the whole point
4:13
Tiny, tiny group of people, and yet this whole country seems to have been consumed by this
4:17
Well, it's not. No, I don't think that's untrue. I think that the chattering classes have been consumed by it
4:24
Well, they had to bring court hat to rule on this side because of what madness was going on in Scotland
4:28
Yes, you go back to what the Supreme Court was actually doing. What they were ruling on was the membership of public bodies
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public boards, where the Scots had decided on 50-50 male-female. The ridiculous situation that would have created
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because they allowed trans women to identify as female, is you could have ended up with a board 100% biological male
4:56
And still said it was 50-50. Yeah. So the whole point was the court saw this was a ridiculous situation
5:03
What they've actually said is that biological sex can't be changed. That's the most important thing
5:11
What effect that will have on behaviour we'll have to see. But that's all they did
5:18
They didn set an obligation on organisations to change their practices But Nigel What it meant was that organisations can change their practices if they wished In women sport it would be particularly important because it means you could ban trans women from female events
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without any fear of any court action afterwards. But there was an obligation, wasn't there
5:39
Because the impact of the ruling is that if you provide a single-sex service, it has to now be single-sex
5:46
So I think what it means is if you decide that it's not going to be single-sex
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and a woman complains, then you have to bend to her view
5:55
Yes, that's right. Yes. That's what it means. But the point that you made there, Nigel
5:58
about you now don't have the right to change your biological sex, renders gender recognition certificates null and void
6:04
and it also means... No, because you can change your gender. Gender isn't sex
6:08
That's right, but you can change your gender. It's a social construct. But it also means that all data
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from police records to medical records, should go back to reflect biological sex
6:19
Is there, I'm getting on to please have a subject again, for instance, a women's only space, a changing room
6:24
what if the woman is, and I don't know if I'm allowed to say this
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but I'm going to say it anyway, what I would call a butch, masculine-looking woman
6:33
maybe a lesbian, chooses to wear all-male clothes, Doc Martens, is someone going to have to, is someone then
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is it then someone's job to say, excuse me, are you a man or a woman? I mean, I think that could happen potentially
6:46
I don't think it will, because those women have always existed. Yes. And I've never been in a changing room and looked at one of those women
6:53
You know who they are. Well, I think that. But I hope someone's making this point on a radio print
6:57
Well, of course they are, because they're trying to obfugate the real facts here
7:01
And I think the fact that we've seen these people out protesting this weekend
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and we will again next weekend, we have, on the one hand, people like Peter Tatchell saying this has made no difference whatsoever
7:11
Well, if it's made no difference, what are they protesting? Good point
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