Up next in 10
GB News host Ben Leo has descended into a bitter trans row with commentator Jonathan Lis, after he claimed that the Supreme Court's ruling on biological women is "nonsense".Following a challenge by women's rights campaigners, the Supreme Court ruled in favour of biological women - protecting them in single sex spaces against transgender women.FULL STORY HERE.
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
What this is doing is forcing trans people from public life
0:03
It's saying you can't use that bathroom, or you can't use the other bathroom either
0:06
Jonathan, just use the toilet. Just use your native toilet. No, no, that's exactly the point
0:12
The native toilet is a women's loo if you're a trans man
0:16
That's exactly right. And the Supreme Court judgment is saying those men can be lawfully excluded from a female-only space
0:25
if it's reasonably considered that their male attributes make them men. So basically what the Supreme Court is saying is that your biology determines who you are
0:33
except if your appearance happens to trump it. The law, the judgment is a complete nonsense
0:37
It's incommarious. And ministers are entitled to say so and think how they go forward from it
0:42
We have been living in proper confusion for years. Yeah, and it's now got even more confused
0:46
No, now we have clarity. I just gave you an example of why it's not clear. I just gave you an example of why it's not clear
0:51
Let me answer. We had no clarity, right, because it was being fudged. And you know that as well as I do
0:57
So the word woman was not... It was being not necessarily linked directly to biological sex
1:03
which led to the confusion. Now we have clarity. And it's very simple. There's a very simple answer
1:10
If you are a trans woman, you will use the men's toilets
1:14
You will use the biological sex. And there is no confusion. I've just explained to you..
1:19
I've literally just explained to you why that's not the case. Because a trans man, who, by your logic, is a woman
1:25
can be lawfully... Not by my logic. No, no, no. Right, fine. Right, fine. Can be lawfully excluded from a female-only space
1:32
according to the Supreme Court justice ruling. That's how I understand. Yes, that is literally what it says in paragraph 221
1:38
I've not... OK? So they saying that biology is paramount except when you actually look like a bloke and then you can be excluded I going to intervene here That makes no sense I going to intervene here I am quite frankly I sick of this trans debate so far already Well you the one who keeps talking about it
1:50
It's Sunday. I know, and we're going to stop talking about it because we... Do you know what happens
1:55
Because you can't ask the question, that's why no one talks about it anymore. I've not seen that a part of the judgement
1:58
but do you know what happens with this debate? We get bogged down in court rulings... It's important
2:02
Bogged down a court, that's literally what's happened. No, we finish. We get bogged down in academia, an expert this, an expert that
2:08
The truth of the matter is, men cannot be women and women cannot be men
2:11
And the more you get bogged down in court rulings and ysis and all this
2:16
you know, just muddying the waters... Well, the quality of that actually says different. Let's get straight to the point
2:20
There is such a thing as gender recognition certificates, which do actually allow you to change your birth certificate
2:25
and legally identify as the... Most sane people would agree, do what you want, we're a liberal country
2:32
I don't care what you do, just stay out of women's toilets. Well, actually, most... I know the vast majority of people, the majority of women
2:38
the vast majority of lesbians, by the way, in whose name this campaign is so often waged
2:43
are supportive of trans rights. The only people that are confused are people that will not accept biological reality
2:49
Can we talk about the Cabinet? I'm not confused. I'm not confused. I just disagree with you
2:53
I don't want to talk about trans anymore. It does my head in, actually, quite funny
2:57
As I said, we get bogged down in all this stupid debate. Women can't be men and men can't be women
3:01
By the way, most biologists will actually disagree disagree with you, because if you look at the..
3:07
Actually, they do, because the chromosomes, you can have excess chromosomes... Stop dragging me back into this silly debate
3:12
..and actually have a different gene. No, no, but the minute you try to pin this down
3:17
the minute you try to pin this down, you actually get lost in the science, because the science is not as clear-cut as people like you would have
3:23
No, it is not. It is not. It's simply... And these are scientists, not me
3:28
That's not my expertise. Can we talk about the cabinet? Yes, OK, let's talk about the cabinet
#news