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The death of Cookie Marketing with Ryan Waterbury
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Jul 27, 2022
Ryan and I talk about the death of Cooke Marketing, how in impacts your business, and the focus on having better messaging. One Dog Solutions https://onedog.solutions/ On Twitter: https://twitter.com/onedogsolutions Amanda Natividad Twitter thread: https://twitter.com/amandanat/status/1551951984457965568 Ross Simmonds on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheCoolestCool ================== Learn more about Copyflight: https://www.copyflight.com/ Learn more about the Website Copy Framework
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[Music]
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hello everyone welcome to the messaging matters show that little splash countdown went off
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pretty well i got the one in there i wanted um last few times i've gotten a 60 second one and that's just kind of awkward when
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you hit live and then you wait 60 seconds you're like oh where are my thumbs anyway so i
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was much happier to have the 30-second one anyway we are live and welcome to the
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messaging matters show i'm your host todd jones this episode
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today is brought to you by taco tuesday because it is taco tuesday and i had tacos for supper so hopefully
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you did as well and also professional wrestling and arkansas razorback football
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i thought it'd be fun to say yeah tune in next time you'll never know what i'll say it's brought to you by i'm thinking
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about like saying something like that every time so uh one day we may actually have advertisers but right now
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it's brought to you by taco tuesday professional wrestling and arkansas razorback football
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so um anyway i think we have uh one person who says he wants to heckle
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in the chat room so um if you are in the chat room feel free to say hi or bug
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rob cairns from studying digital marketing uh but today i have with me
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uh a guy who's in one of my probably my closest inner circle online
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and that would be ryan waterbury from one dog solutions in minnesota hello ryan tell us a little bit about
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yourself so uh i am the owner and operator of one dog
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solutions a very small uh marketing agency that specializes in web
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design development and getting your messaging off from that standpoint and we recently have shifted
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focus back to making your website at the cornerstone of your messaging uh for a number of
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reasons yeah and we'll get into that in just a few minutes i think in fact i think
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largely uh your experience and what you shared with me is a is probably the main reason for this particular pop
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show aside from the fact that i had to get my friend on there so um now one dog solution is kind of inspired
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by a special pup named bud can you tell us about bud
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yeah actually he's kind of the well he's on my about page although i really
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haven't fleshed that out and explained why uh you know he's there um he's just
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he's a rescue he's an american britney i do a lot of work with uh american britney rescue
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but he uh he's my hunting pal and just my best friend in general but
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uh the american britney is what we call a versatile hunting dog that if you're gonna have one dog to
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hunt everything they're the type of dog that you want so you don't have to look anywhere else
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and that was kind of the inspiration uh for my agency name and
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when i kind of kicked off my agency as i'm gonna i'm gonna be your point of contact to help you communicate
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for your entire business whether you need print uh digital marketing a new website uh
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whatever you need um we would handle it for you and that that mission hasn't changed although
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we've shifted a little bit of focus um and part of that focus is now
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there's not just one dog in the house we have another uh we have two dogs and
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i've inherited a dog from a family member who's now uh in senior care my father-in-law's dog
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he's a german short-haired shooter he's also a versatile hunting dog
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uh but uh that that's uh that's been a little bit of a handful and a change for
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the agency doesn't uh necessarily go with the name but um they do the same thing together and
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they're happy they're mostly partners they you know that's what i was thinking
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about today is like i want to shane changed his name to two dog solutions no
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no no but uh yeah that principle remains the same and uh
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my first dog was a short hair and i slowly and surely uh after taking care
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of customer uh requests and and their needs rolling out some new branding and
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the the paw print my new logo is actually inspired from my first dog who was a short hair
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so yep and those of us are close friends with uh ryan we get the adventures of
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bud and shooter stories quite regularly and he puts them in his email sometimes too
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you know uh my my last email uh was kind of inspired
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by the two of them and bud just turned ten this year shooter just turned six
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when shooter first came to live with us it uh it was a harsh change for both of them shooters owner was
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was uh quite old um he actually celebrated his 81st birthday
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so he's in a much more active household so he's happier but on the other hand
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he's older and it takes him a little more time to adjust and my last email that i had talked about to
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my audience was that the one thing that we can count on is change and that there there's always things changing and we
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talk about the digital landscape with all the different methods of communication the different platforms
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something is changed every single day yeah it's a great segue
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that's a great it's a great segue to the topic but i was also thinking about the bob dylan song about change and
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you know everything oh if there's if there's nothing everything changes it always changes so
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uh i can't actually recall the nut words of the song at the moment but that always comes to my mind whenever um i
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think about changes that bob dylan saw um so yes you had to make some changes
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and that's actually what we're going to talk about if anybody's curious about the title of being the death of cookie
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marketing actually when ryan floated cookie marketing up to me the other day i was like what is cookie marketing does that have
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to do with cookie from cookie mo the cookie monster or you know cookies for mcdonald's or what
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where's where's what does it have to do with and of course i i mean i've kind of thought of cookies like on our website
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because obviously people who have been building websites for years know about cookies and
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and uh and so i got i kind of went into this little place i googled right because that's what you do you google
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and i probably came up with immediately like five articles maybe six i don't know about the death of cookies uh in
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marketing and what they were really referring to was third party cookies
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uh which is what we deal with and uh so ryan put on your put on your expertise hat
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and talk about third party cookies what that means and how things are changing so uh
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i think it was five six seven eight years ago uh i was doing a lot of digital
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marketing both with um social media platforms mostly facebook at that time
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and also google it was really a match made in heaven and this is
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2016 maybe a little earlier what we would do is register your
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business with google ads uh in this case and
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facebook and we would get a tracking code a little snippet of javascript that we would load up in the header of your
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website and what we would do is based on the actions
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of people on your website we would start to learn behavior and guess what
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it wasn't anonymous even if it said it was we still knew who was visiting when and where way back when and there was a
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lot of information that was gathered about people that was a little concerning people said
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hey it's the creepy factor i looked at this one
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one of the ones that i hear the most creep factor is when you look at jewelry and
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you know guys would be out there logged in all their stuff and they go and look at a ring and then all of a sudden their girlfriend's like why am i seeing ads
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for engagement rings and specific ads that
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you'd have him look over their shoulder and he's like holy shoot i looked at that exact one at that exact store
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how do they know well when you're logged into your facebook account your google account that's still
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kind of true today but you didn't necessarily have to be logged in they would track your movements and wait
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and hold that cookie until you logged in and said oh you visited this client's
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website you looked at this product now we're going to show you that over and over
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that's kind of goes in line with the uh the rules of sales how many touches seven well we're going to hit as many
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times as we can with the most relevant things that you've been searching for
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people started to take notice as you know the algorithms got more intelligent and they said hey i feel like my privacy
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is being invaded and you know we had uh political scandals
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with cambridge analytica um you know and other other
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other lawsuits in the eu which led to gdpr which actually led to the cookie consent
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bar where there are some things and you know we talk about the death of third party
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cookies but there are certainly some first-party cookies that um are generated by the website so you
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have a better experience you don't want to see a pop-up every time you visit you know things like that are innocuous
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we're not collecting a lot of data but that was really the first step when we
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started to see the um tracking being blocked and advertising
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becoming less effective based on tracking one of my magic money um you know i'll
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give you a little secret sauce because it's not really it's not as relevant as it was
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we would run simple search checks to ads for very specific things for service
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businesses when they would land on that service page um after
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a higher paying google ad we would hit them with a lot more social
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media ads remarket because we knew they visited that page and that was probably fresh in their
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mind and it was cheaper to advertise on social media platforms at that time so
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you know the uh that little snippet of code gave us a lot of info about uh customers
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purchasing behavior or you know just based on their browsing behavior
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a lot of that's gone um you know we look at uh gdpr which said hey we're gonna you know put the
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content bar well can you define gdpr and explain what that is that comes out of the european
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union but somebody who's listening to states may not know what the gdpr is yeah it's the general data privacy
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regulation where you have to disclose what information
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specifically that you're collecting about an individual and allow them to opt out and this is specific for
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eu uh individuals although we're seeing it more so in in the us
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just just as a blanket policy because websites can be accessed from anywhere
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so we're seeing people being more privacy conscious here and
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that that kind of leads into um not necessarily the cookie bar where
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you want to use the site you just click okay and yeah and you accept everything or
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responsible ones like maine wp when you hit okay they only collect the essential they don't have the marketing
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ones on they're very privacy focused uh they're very transparent about letting you know that
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most people still want to collect data uh because it helps you market better and i'm writing customers better
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yeah what i try to explain to any people is even like
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even and this goes back to the ssl certificate as well right so a contact form is collecting data
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right you know it's collecting data and it's also uh sending information
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over the internet so that's there's two things you got a contact form on your website you need to have an ssl
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certificate and two you need to have some kind of consent form sure and that comes in with a privacy
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policy that says you know here here we're collecting your information the different piece about uh a contact
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form you're knowingly submitting information personal information about yourself true
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yeah with pixel tracking you were a lot of people were unknowingly submitting data about their
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browsing habits and companies were collecting that information and using it to retarget them with
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advertisements not necessarily a bad thing but
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when you start looking at political organizations invading your privacy then people start taking notice
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and yeah i tend to get more upset by texts from politicians than i do from companies and they can just do it i mean
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i and there's some things that are changing now with google uh
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i did a lot of advertising uh for political organizations for
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uh both major parties a lot of third parties and you know there were a lot of rules after
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the 2018 midterms that were put down to make sure that you verified who you
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were and you were only advertising a specific way 2020 those got a little tighter but now
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we're starting to see some things being rolled back based on political pressure google is actually
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being pressured to allow direct inbox delivery and bypassing spam
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they're you know in the u.s at least so there are some things that are softening
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but when we talk about cookie marketing you know ios 14 was one of the first big ones and
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i'm on a mac so i benefited from that with safari and i know you use brave
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which blocks tracking and that keeps a lot of your your data a
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little bit more private wherever those cookie bars
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and the privacy policies will tell you if the website responds to do not track
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well now uh browse just like safari brave and to a point the duckduckgo browser um you
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know will block some of the tracking and outright and not share that with
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organizations so you have a little more protection there and
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so if you all of a sudden after 2020 21
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started seeing in your facebook feed ads that were completely irrelevant to you
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part of that had to do with people not being aware of new targeting methods and
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the tracking blocking that you weren't being as effective with showing ads to customers based on the
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browsing activity this is going to affect this is something i learned today looking
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through the articles this is going to affect the publishing industry as well and that's a whole other conversation i was having in slack group with uh
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another gentleman who's in the publishing industry uh within wordpress so we were talking about that uh because
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i think uh you're gonna see more contextual ads is the word that they use
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so i think there's going to be coming back to that but for the average business owner let's talk about how that affects
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them maybe some of these things we've done in the past won't be as effective
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and what does that mean for the future so uh when we talk about you know social
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media advertising and the amount of data that meta used to be just facebook corporation but when we talk about meta
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that's facebook instagram uh messenger uh you know all their whatsapp
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and all the properties that they own um you know when
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there were a lot of plugins out there google tag manager um you know the easy way is just to copy
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a code snippet and paste it in your website and you were tracking and you know that was sending data back
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to the mother ship so it was pretty easy to
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have a low ad cost and show your ads to people who were already interested in your product or
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your business so those little small mom-and-pop shops that didn't have a big advertising
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budget let's say somebody found them you know via google map search
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for plumbing uh you know i'm gonna pick on service based industries and they're doing a little
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maybe they're they're saying oh i've got a leaky faucet i need some help with it well the plumber that actually has a a
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pixel on a site could go ahead when they'd log into you know a social media platform they'd start seeing ads if they
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had set it up appropriately to show it back to those customers and that's much more effective
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now without that intelligent tracking that data the
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you're spending a lot more i know uh some of the articles that uh that are out there hubspot had one that said five
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to twenty five percent more for advertising costs over 21 into 22 and 23.
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that's pretty lean i think you're looking at at least fifty to a hundred percent more to be just as effective uh
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with some of the older strategies with remarketing yeah there's a couple things i would say about this one it cost you
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more to to do the social media marketing because of the changes and two um
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anybody who uses facebook regularly especially for business purposes and they use their business page to do it
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uh realizes facebook does not have very much organic reach anymore
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no 10-12 years ago you know people are going game busters now
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uh i mean i hardly ever post on my facebook pages anymore because it's like
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it's like a noise in the woods and nobody's around they can't exactly i you know i tried
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i tried for a little bit with organic reach but um you know i was doing um
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organic social media in 2012 2013 2014
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it started a shift and it was between 2014 and 2015 when they said
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i we want to keep get people's uh news feeds more for
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their friends and family well that was a lie they wanted you to spend money on advertising
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and you know so people's new feeds got a little more relevant because they started seeing ads for
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places they visited around that time because we were tracking them uh so it was a win-win for everybody
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businesses were making more money facebook made a ton more money they gathered a lot more data
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um but yeah the organic reach i don't remember the last time i saw anything
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relevant to what i cared about on my newsfeed from a business that i followed right right i mean
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and the people i know who are doing well organically or doing it on their
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personal profile right it's just the way it is and you know facebook would probably say now now
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you're not supposed to do it on your personal profile but that's what they're doing and can you blame them that's where
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they're getting reached now um that kind of puts a kink in
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what we did i still think there's a there's a there's a place for social media marketing
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and so forth i'm not dismissing that but i think it changes everything like about how you do your
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business why yes and no and i'll tell you you can still collect that data and you can still
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build those audiences but if you have to do it at scale in order to
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collect intelligent data so what what's happening now is you know
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first party cookies aren't aren't being blocked you can self-host and
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gather information yourself so e-commerce stores are one of the one of the good examples that really can still
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be relevant and they'll have a they'll have a hard time following
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people around the internet now they do all businesses will have a hard time doing that because
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because the retargeting was yes you had people on your site getting information from them but then when they go to
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and there's something else that people aren't talking a lot about i know for sure that i couldn't i don't have any
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numbers but that people are leaving facebook they're walking away some are walking away all together some are
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walking away for extended period of time um so i mean where you know and even instagram's losing his
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luster but so uh this will be in my next newsletter i'm uh taking a really hard look i i've
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got my first taste of the new instagram flavor and it's tick tock re-wrapped
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and google is very aware of this facebook's aware of the impact there
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more people are gravitating toward that that video focused marketing but guess what it doesn't convert to sales like
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other like the other avenues on those platforms too so you have to spend more money more
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production money and time to produce something even these small little apps you know like
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canva or some of the video apps that help you you still have to take time away from your business to learn how to use them
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put together something nice do it three four five six times different number of takes to produce
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content i mean lately in the reels i've seen a lot of small business owners like uh
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contractors complaining about i guess i'm doing content today again you know and it's it's kind of a joke because
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they know that they need to be active on these platforms to attract business
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but it takes time away from them doing their actual business so it's kind of it's not necessarily a
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loss leader it's just a loss yeah and and the the problem with you know i don't have any
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concept i mean other than what i see on tv about tick tock i mean i may go look at a video someone shares you don't have
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to log in to look at a video sometimes but i don't have a tick tock account and i do have instagram i have two instagram
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accounts so i go look at the there's really no way and and the other social media
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platforms don't want you to do this at all there's really no way on instagram tick tock to bring them back to your
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what you own to actually convert it into sales now you can use the messaging i will say that the smart people will say
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message me or drop a dm or whatever then you can carry that where you want um so
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it's it's it really is difficult especially for an average business owner to to admit it to manage um but this
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goes back to what you and i and rob and so many other people say you you you cannot build a rented
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platform you have to have your own which is a website and an email list
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that brings me yeah that kind of brings it around to how i've shifted and you know if it
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wasn't um cheap search text ads that we were running it was good content and
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investing in and spending time on seo where people are searching for something
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specific whether it's a how-to video on youtube or you know even further embedding that in
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your blog post that talks about how to do something and gives relevant information
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that that was the other avenue uh building good content that
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you know again we would pixel and retarget so that avenue's gone but
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i want people to sign up for my email list lead magnets
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i i have not seen a good lead magnet work for me in probably
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a year and a half at least but what i have seen is uh
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on the uh pages that are split tests where i've had an email sign up and then i've had the lead magnet opt-in
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they still get signed up if they get the lead magnet people don't want it they want they'll sign up for the email list though and
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you know i share a little bit of a story uh some some of our colleagues may not necessarily like that long form
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but i also share some relevant news and tips and tricks and some things that i've done in my business that have helped me
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and i will tell you that um every time i send an email out
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i get a call i get an email i get somebody uh engaging and either thanking me for the content
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asking how they can get more information uh the past handful every single time uh
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somebody's reached out and said i need help with this uh when can i get your web design
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schedule yeah it the uh my email list has generated more business for me in the
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last six months than my uh lead magnets magnets and social
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media marketing has in the last year amazing so i mean we always talk about there's
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money in the list but it takes time to grow that list and
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and you know how do you get the list um you know i i see rob in the comments talking he's
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taken years to build this list yeah and you know but if you provide
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good quality information and you do it consistently that was the change that i made almost a
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year ago that i committed to at first doing monthly and then i said
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you know what i've got more information that i can put in a monthly newsletter it's too long our friend defender said oh your email's
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going to be too long so i i said for him for him
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i i said i'm going to do this every other week and i've been consistent every other week and i collect my
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information you know through the through the two weeks and sort through and i i
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kind of think about what trends are changing what i want to talk about and what i think my customers care about
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and i put together a newsletter on the latest news in digital what's changing and
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you know this is directly relevant for them on how they get their messaging out so i make sure it's relevant uh i have a
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little spin on how it's affecting my business and what i'm doing and you know just a few words of wisdom
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and i do it every other week i don't give any more any less and
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it's been good yeah you do a good job of trends that's that's what i like about your emails
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uh you'll you'll say you'll talk about some maybe you share it in slack but then you turn around put it in the email
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i'm like oh i didn't look closely um so uh but but that goes back to
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if you if you're listing this and you wonder what the heck i'm talking about my reo framework which
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there's a video in the the youtube channel so you have to go very far um the first
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reo stands for relevant engaging and original but you just said it relevant
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you made your content on your website and your email relevant and that makes a
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huge difference and i know rob does the same thing with his email it's very uh
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and you know and so that's consistency is big too i think our friend jason resnick would say
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people stop before it really kicks in and don't you know don't stop keep going
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yeah absolutely and i i think my last blog post and i had a follow-up on where
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it was that's actually not the right way because it's not uh but you know i talked about finding
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uh a medium that you can consistently communicate on whether it's email um a newsletter a
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podcast a videocast uh social media and it's it's still relevant you still have
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your core audience that's going to see that and they will share it and honestly uh that that's still important
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you know i don't want to talk down you know social media when i talk about social media marketing
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i really look at that differently from the organic side you know i look at that more as paid advertising
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and that's i'll be honest i i think it's less effective for smaller businesses than it used to be
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uh but don't take that uh that to say that you shouldn't post things on social media
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when you're doing something good people want to see you succeed so there's a couple things i wanted this
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and then when i kind of wrap it up first um i follow ross simmons on twitter
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um he's like i guess the ceo of foundation inc which is a content marketing company and he does a great
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job and i first heard the idea from our friend kim dole about repurposing content
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ross calls it remixing which i absolutely love because you are you mean i like the idea like it
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sounds like a mix right a mixtape we used to make mixtapes as a kid but it's taking the content you've already
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created and remixing it multiple ways for different platforms so you don't you're
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not creating you're creating new like a new format for the same content right
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and um but then and i always thought we i still think you know you got to get people to the website but then today and
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i'll put this i'll put the twitter thread in the show notes uh another lady
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i follow who work who works for sparktoro with rand fishkin had this incredible
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thread today about how you can provide relevant content on the platform and he and she you know
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she kind of blew away my idea about oh you got to get people you do got to get people to your site but she pointed out
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it can be just like the old days when we basically did stuff for a brand lift to get you
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know brand awareness basically and i'm like yeah that makes sense
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so a very good thread i need to put that in the uh the show notes but uh i think her name
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is amanda and i'm teed or something like that she's incredibly smart yeah you mentioned ross i i uh love
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following him and you know uh he is really
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great when he talks about repurposing content and when he does brand uh tear
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downs and what they're doing well the you know he i think he recently did one
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for spotify um what they're doing and it was fantastic from top to bottom he talked about their
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organic traffic their advertising traffic and channel uh and
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you know what went top to bottom and talked about all the good things and about the things that they could do better
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you know my last blog post i had written talked about being consistent and finding a medium that you can do it in
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i always come back to you writing content having it published on your site because that
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i i can't talk enough about uh seo and having an
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anchor to your site with good quality content and to be able to repurpose that uh
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whether it's in the newsletter social media or a google search uh that's gonna
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help you more than anything else unfortunately not every business really
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not every business is is a great fit for blogging i mean you know ecommerce
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stores i some i have some you know niche
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audiences that hey they want to read about you know what what they're doing um i think like hiking and camping you
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know when you talk about tips and then you pair it up with um you know products in your store but i don't i don't know
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that every every uh store that i've seen really does well with that i think it depends on the type of
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content you do and that's that's the issue with um you know you have like well we you know
33:58
kaylee moore is a e-commerce copywriter and and brilliant brilliant marketer and she
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writes these detailed long-form email marketing or e-commerce marketing posts
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which go on industry sites those are not fit for your your average
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run the middle e-commerce lifestyle side right what you can do say you got a pet store
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tell the story of bud and shoot her there's no there's no authority in that per se but
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it's engaging it's relevant it's original uh and it helps with the brand
34:34
awareness it's it's something that gets people to the site i think e-commerce can do content marketing in a different
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manner than maybe what your run-of-the-mill sas you know software as a service company would do sure
34:47
i think the uh the point is that um
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as business owners we need to find other avenues besides relying on mining data about
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individuals um and i think how i've been most effective is
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finding more personal connections through my my emails my stories and and my industry trends
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and that's been effective for me uh it took me a while to find that
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that's what customers were interested in and what what uh
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jogged them to come out and talk to me about helping them do the same things
35:28
so it's it's not going to be the same thing for every industry and that's kind of what i was getting to
35:34
with an e-commerce site may not have the same tactics that you know a mom-and-pop
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pet shop will but um what you want to try and do is stay on brand find your message
35:47
and you know build around that it might be a newsletter um it might be you know
35:52
social media post um it uh you know it might be a blog in but for
35:59
every business it's going to be a little different but you need to find that that avenue that's organic and
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find that message exactly what a great way to sum up a
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messaging matters show right um your core messaging whatever that is yeah and find it and but i think it's
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easier to do those things when you do have that core messaging about who you are what you do and who you do it for
36:27
right and exactly and i think you know not to say that you shouldn't spend money on paying advertisements it
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definitely is still effective you're gonna spend more for it but
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i think finding that core message for your business first and finding an
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affected method and the message that resonates with your customers before you start spending money on
36:51
advertising uh digital advertising uh in particular is going to be more important
36:57
yeah i think so i think that's the thing people get wrong and and some business owners jump into all this
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fancy stuff and it don't work we don't know why it don't work well
37:08
start with the foundation what is that message you know who are you who do you help how do you do it you
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know what is it you do how are you different those things those core tenants of your message and then you can
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use that as a foundation to share your message across platforms and then i think using content as you
37:28
mentioned content marketing uh but i mean it's not easy obviously everybody does it and you know
37:34
used to be hey do the do the blogging all the time right we we did that and
37:39
many of us do that and you know rob went to doing podcasts almost exclusively and it's worked fine for him
37:46
um i i think most businesses should probably try to find some kind of a balance on those things but
37:52
um right but um and you know podcast is not ever not easy for everybody to execute
37:59
so um yeah i i turned to veterans like rob cairns and
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and um um joe casabana for help with podcasting so
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yeah it it uh at the outset if you have a website
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10 out of 10 it's going to have a blogging capability in there somewhere and
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that that's my best advice is start writing a blog you're probably not
38:30
going to be good at it when you start out i wasn't my blo my early articles were terrible
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and some of my new ones still aren't great but i keep writing them and they get
38:42
better uh they get uh more more views i have more
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relevant pieces that i you know find i still have two our two articles that
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rank on page one for their uh particular search terms they need a little polishing for
38:58
you know today's date but honestly you're not gonna you're not gonna bang out a winner every time and
39:04
you know the point is yeah it's practice yeah yeah it takes a while to yeah and
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you know there are resources out there to help us right um from software like hemingway app and
39:16
grammarly and pro writing aid to resources like i mentioned kaylee moore she's got a ton of great resources for
39:22
people writing you know their books uh their their courses to learn to write better this
39:29
you know if you just read 12 years ago i started reading the copy blocker blog and i think that made me a
39:35
better writer just reading it you know absolutely yeah so uh anyway um man i appreciate
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you coming on and geeking out about this i thought i think it's really interesting how we ended up back at
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writing or in creating content and uh because that you know that
39:55
matters yeah right and it you touched on it it really started out with blogging being one of the first
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monetization points and the first places where ads were shown and tracked and and relevant yeah i think
40:09
we've called come back full circle where we need to do good proper content again
40:15
in order to attract uh our ideal customers it's even more now than it was
40:21
you know 2010 because you have so many more blogs out there now than you did back then you know so
40:29
it does need to be good and you can check out the video on reo framework to see what at least one idea
40:36
of what excuse me good content is and uh so where can people find you online
40:44
without doing the creepy uh pixel retargeting uh every social media platform out there
40:51
every major one at one dog solutions uh you can visit my website
40:58
onedog.solutions or email me at ryan.waterbury onedog.solutions
41:05
yeah and um now if you go to your website and you go to social media you'll get to see pictures of bud as well and tutor so um and if you sign up
41:13
for his email list you might get a story about uh bud and shooter adventures but
41:20
but you also get really relevant content about uh you know this the the industry we're in
41:27
yeah right my footer i have a sign up link for my newsletter and uh right in the landing page i tell you
41:33
exactly what what i'm going to write about it's security seo news and digital industry trends
41:41
and you might even give them a lead magnet i don't know maybe maybe
41:46
yeah all right man i appreciate you coming on and sharing your experience uh your
41:52
story if you will about how things change for you yeah and uh
41:58
we will continue to see more uh look forward to more adventures of bud
42:03
and shooter well thanks for having me on i appreciate it all right man have a good night
42:09
you too
42:33
you